Questionable 1908 Ford Model T Sells At Auction Today For $246,400

[Bhigdog]

The car or may not have started life as old #2. But, one thing is for certain, it is not now as it was when born. Is it pretty? Yes. Is it original, as built. No.  

Is it worth $246,400? It quite obviously is, or at least was.

Everything else is just idle chatter. ........bob

Edited March 6, 2022 by Bhigdog (see edit history)

[brasscarguy]

I was at Hershey the day the restorer rolled it into his stall for its first car show. He was asked several times to open the hood and show the serial number, and he flat refused. He would not let anyone look either under the hood or crawl under the car. He did not drive it on the field he rolled it with tire booties on. 

 

As far as those auctions are concerned the fine print is soo small and full of disclaimers and exclusions to hold them harmless no matter what.

 

So it is often said a fool and his money are soon parted, go to an auction show off for the big boys or your arm candy, over pay for something you know little about, sound about right ?

 

brasscarguy

[Jim Mead]

Thanks Wayne for getting to the fact that a lever pre-dated the Reverse pedal. I’ve gotten pretty good at finding neutral and holding it with my “1925 Roadster”. But your post got me to wondering if the later T rear wheel brake ratchet quadrant isn’t long enough but that the lever can be left in the first notch to operate the reverse pedal (or lever). I’ll have to try it in the Spring. 

Sort of germane to the discussion, I built my T from parts 50 years ago in my late High School/ early University years. Prior cut off Touring body and all. The motor came from a buzz saw rig. I’ve got about $1500.00 in it and it is my most reliable go to car. On the other hand, we have a dead stock original 1909 Buick F that drives like new. They both have their place in my collecting philosophy. Thousands of “Old Reliable” Buicks had been built prior to our definitive example. Too bad a very early 2 + 2 T  didn’t share the same fate, preservation wise, as our Buick……

[Ed Luddy]

11 hours ago, brasscarguy said:

I was at Hershey the day the restorer rolled it into his stall for its first car show. He was asked several times to open the hood and show the serial number, and he flat refused. He would not let anyone look either under the hood or crawl under the car. He did not drive it on the field he rolled it with tire booties on. 

 

As far as those auctions are concerned the fine print is soo small and full of disclaimers and exclusions to hold them harmless no matter what.

 

So it is often said a fool and his money are soon parted, go to an auction show off for the big boys or your arm candy, over pay for something you know little about, sound about right ?

 

brasscarguy

That sounds about right.

[MarkV]

I call this the Data’s visor rule:

https://www.deseret.com/2007/12/30/20061900/trekkie-sues-christie-s-over-data-poker-visor?_amp=true
 

if an auction company like Christie’s is willing to not double check a minor thing like Data’s poker visor from Star Trek you can imagine what auction houses do with far more expensive items like this Model T. 

[1937hd45]

1 hour ago, MarkV said:

I call this the Data’s visor rule:

https://www.deseret.com/2007/12/30/20061900/trekkie-sues-christie-s-over-data-poker-visor?_amp=true
 

if an auction company like Christie’s is willing to not double check a minor thing like Data’s poker visor from Star Trek you can imagine what auction houses do with far more expensive items like this Model T. 

I'll file that under who gives a rats butt, Star Trek and all things related to it have less that zero value to me.  

[Gunsmoke]

In fairness to AACA's objective of treating fairly all members and their decisions on what they buy, own, or sell, (and notwithstanding the variety of opinion offered in this topic), can I ask the originator (or a Moderator) to please delete the word "Questionable" from the thread title as it is simply not necessary and not fair. I always prefer if posters avoid unnecessary and often unfairly "provocative" titles. Thank You.

[MarkV]

49 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said:

I'll file that under who gives a rats butt, Star Trek and all things related to it have less that zero value to me.  

You missed the whole point. 
 

The point is that auction houses don’t do their due diligence and the idea is buyer beware. This Model T with a lack of verification was not a smart purchase and I find it suspect that the owner did not want it inspected. 

 

Those Star Trek items may have zero value to you just like old car parts and cars may have 0 value to others. It’s a global phenomenon with millions of fans and people who grew up with the various series and movies. These people desire to own just a small piece of the show. they will hunt down a specific piece like a car person will hunt down a specific car they grew up around. It’s the same mindset. Those auctions are crazy the Christie’s auction and subsequent auctions,  items that are expected to go for hundreds or low thousands go for thirty or forty times the amount. 
 

 But just an FYI the models from the various series with provenance  have sold for upwards of $700k. Props from the series have sold for tens of thousands of dollars. 

[Flivverking]

All I see is ,Ego and conspicuous acquisition from one with too much money.

[motoringicons]

 

 

"....and after six years the finished car was displayed at Hershey in 2001, winning a 1st Prize in the Junior Award category."

 

Interestingly this assembled car won its only major national award from the AACA.

 

Food for thought for other reasons......

Edited March 6, 2022 by motoringicons (see edit history)

[1937hd45]

Is there " Two Lever '08 T" club or known number? I think Crazy Chris had one, Bill Harrah had four at one time. All interesting early T, history, I wouldn't mind owning an original factory bodied '09 Coupe, or Town Car. The sad thing today is if you see one, like about every Stanley Steamer little of the vehicle ever saw the inside of the factory in 1909. 

[1912Staver]

1 hour ago, Flivverking said:

All I see is ,Ego and conspicuous acquisition from one with too much money.

I am afraid anyone buying a $150,000.00 up " hobby " object can can probably to some degree be tarred with that brush. For us in the cheap seats it becomes necessary to accept that objects far outside our reach exist. And there exists a significant subset of the total population that have the ability to work beyond the limits most of us face.

[hidden_hunter]

2 hours ago, Flivverking said:

 

All I see is ,Ego and conspicuous acquisition from one with too much money.

 

Not sure about that, there are some people on here that have clearly done very well for themselves that are still very friendly and willing to share

[motoringicons]

4 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

Is there " Two Lever '08 T" club or known number? I think Crazy Chris had one, Bill Harrah had four at one time. All interesting early T, history, I wouldn't mind owning an original factory bodied '09 Coupe, or Town Car. The sad thing today is if you see one, like about every Stanley Steamer little of the vehicle ever saw the inside of the factory in 1909. 

Yes, there is a registry of these cars. I think Crazy Chris' car was an early water pump car (pre-#2500) but not a two lever car (from memory, but might be wrong).

 

These cars were also well documented in the AACA/VMCCA's 1950s and 1960s automobile rosters. These very early Model Ts were always highly regarded by collectors, documented, and extremely sought after by the early pioneer collectors-even 70+ years ago.

 

Harrah did own about four of these as well as some other pre-#2500 water pump/non two-lever examples (the first approximately 2500 Model Ts were supplied with a water pump). He really liked early Fords. One of the Harrah cars, #714 was owned by the Eastwood family in Los Angeles and sold to Harrah's back when he was trying to get a very early T for the collection.  The ex- Ben Snider #220 car was also owned by Harrah's. #220 was sold at one of the 1980s Harrah auctions and was been owned by two well known west coast collectors. In recent years, #220 was sold and is now on display at the Piquette Museum in Detroit courtesy of its current owner.   The earliest known complete and authentic ENGINE-only assembly is #77 which is in the warehouses of the Los Angeles County Museum of Natural History where it has resided for at least 60 years. This is the engine pictured in From Here to Obscurity and/or Bruce McCalley's Model T Encyclopedia. Car  #220 is pictured in either or both of these books ( I forget which) and  is shown before and after Ben Snider's restoration.

 

The #2 car in question does not appear in any of the older registries nor any of the early AACA/VMCCA rosters.

Edited March 6, 2022 by motoringicons (see edit history)

[1937hd45]

Not to confuse things but were there two "Eastwood" 1909's? I got a tour of the Petersen Valt back when Pete Eastwood was working there and saw the #77 engine and an '09 that his father had before it wound up in the LA County Museum collection, did it somehow get to Harrah's after I saw it? 

[motoringicons]

10 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said:

Not to confuse things but were there two "Eastwood" 1909's? I got a tour of the Petersen Valt back when Pete Eastwood was working there and saw the #77 engine and an '09 that his father had before it wound up in the LA County Museum collection, did it somehow get to Harrah's after I saw it? 

Bob- I believe you are right. I think the #714 car went from Eastwoods to Harrah's to LA County Museum. The current Harrah's Museum in Reno has one of the other two lever cars that was in the original Harrah collection.

 

Also, I believe Pete Eastwood personally owned Crazy Chris' car for a brief time after Chris passed away.

Edited March 6, 2022 by motoringicons (see edit history)

[vintagerodshop]

In 2015 I purchased serial number 90. A red 2 pedal 2 lever car. very correctly and nicely restored at auction. I paid 121,000 for it including buyers commission. I am very pleased to have lost the dubious honor of being the biggest model T idiot. I will freely share any information and or pictures with anyone that is actively working on or owning a similar car.

[vintagerodshop]

[wayne sheldon]

Beautiful car!

[trimacar]

In 1976, I purchased a collection of cars in north Louisiana.

 

I was not familiar with early cars, there was a complete T chassis with part of a body, I had no interest in it.  I called a friend of mine in New Orleans, describing the small rear end and the valves on the side of the engine.

 

Ended up being an early T, I wish I’d looked for a number.

 

Is anyone familiar with an early T that wound up in New Orleans and was restored? Late1970s to early 1980s….

[5219]

My former wife had an elderly uncle who was born around 1905. He was a car guy in the early 1920's. He used to tell stories about buying a couple of wrecked or abandoned Model T's and remaking them into one good one. This was probably a common practice at the time. I remember wondering how many Model T enthusiasts in the sixties and seventies were trying to figure out cars that Uncle Gus or somebody like him had put together from piles of junk parts fifty years before.

 

The point is that there is no way for any of us to know the truth about any of these cars. A lot of this stuff was done so long ago that it now looks original. If these old guys were still around, they would probably have a good laugh at our expense.