What will we do when the world goes mostly electric

[Miguelg510]

Just musing on the drive home as I daydream about my old Buick being complete and I can drive it around, and I had a thought. Not that this will happen tomorrow but towards the end of my life and definitely within my kids life, the world will move away from gas cars.

 

Part of the anxiousness to complete this old beast is the thought of leaving things for my kids so they can be tickled by driving an antique car around the roads filled with eye numbing same same cars.

 

It led me to think, are these going to end up sitting in garages or show rooms someday and we won’t be able to drive them because we can’t get gas anymore, or worse yet, not be able to drive them on the streets anymore because they are not automated?

 

Id like to think the powers that be would always make room for us car guys, but I live in California and from what I’m seeing in my own backyard, they don’t care one bit if my grandkids can drive my old Buick to prom or not.

 

interested to hear opinions on where we are going with this issue. 
 

Im also open to investing in an oil well with someone who knows how to refine it in their garage so we can keep these old things going! 😂😂

 

Hope everyone is having a great day!

[nick8086]

Invest in coal stocks?  lol..

 

[Matt Harwood]

You're right in thinking it will be at least your kids' lifetime before electric cars are dominant. There's a very long road between here and there, technological problems to be solved, and--not the least of their problems--a massive infrastructure in place to service gasoline vehicles. Do you really think the richest, most powerful corporations in the world (the oil companies) are just going to quietly go away? No, gasoline will be available indefinitely. There may be fewer stations, but the number will never be zero. On the upside, as demand drops so will gas prices. 

 

It will be virtually impossible for the government to legislate gasoline cars out of existence, regardless of what the fear mongering TV tells you. The oil companies, gas station owners, investment in pipelines, delivery, service, emissions testing, etc. is just too massive to vanish and there are too many jobs attached. What politician will float the idea that millions of jobs and billions of dollars of wealth should be wiped out with the stroke of a pen? Again, regardless of what you believe about the "bad guys" in government, none of them have the wherewithal or the will to do this. And this is ignoring the fact that a lot of people won't be able to afford an electric car--nobody will want to legislate poor people out of the only transportation they have. 

 

Places electric vehicles will become dominant? Trucking. Mass transit. Delivery fleets. Taxis/Ubers. But personal transport will likely remain a personal choice for many, many years to come. There's simply no way around it.

 

So take comfort in the fact that there are truly massive barriers between today and all-electric roadways. There will be more electric cars all the time, but someone will continue to build gas cars and someone will always sell gas to power them. I'm confident we'll always be able to feed our old cars and find roads on which to drive them. Don't live scared, embrace the moment!

 

 

Edited March 1, 2022 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[JohnD1956]

In the course of business, as the demand drops, and as the price follows, there will be a point where it does not pay for a company to purchase, refine, deliver and market gasoline.  There won't be any legislation needed when that happens as there won't be much gas.  The bright side is each company likely has a different price point where this will occur, so as the demand decreases and as the gasoline companies back out of the market, the remaining companies will have a moment in the sun where they can demand a higher price dure to scarcity of the product, there by ensuring a supply of gasoline for the immediate future.  But yes, I imagine our cars will one day wind up garage queens, and there after barn finds.  It is one reason I don't even attempt to restore my cars now.  I'd rather drive em as much as I can while I still can.  

 

And as for my kids, each will receive one of them, and the good news for them is they will have 100% equity, so that if they want to try and sell them at any point, they won't have to worry about losing money. 

[Miguelg510]

1 hour ago, Matt Harwood said:

You're right in thinking it will be at least your kids' lifetime before electric cars are dominant. There's a very long road between here and there, technological problems to be solved, and--not the least of their problems--a massive infrastructure in place to service gasoline vehicles. Do you really think the richest, most powerful corporations in the world (the oil companies) are just going to quietly go away? No, gasoline will be available indefinitely. There may be fewer stations, but the number will never be zero. On the upside, as demand drops so will gas prices. 

 

It will be virtually impossible for the government to legislate gasoline cars out of existence, regardless of what the fear mongering TV tells you. The oil companies, gas station owners, investment in pipelines, delivery, service, emissions testing, etc. is just too massive to vanish and there are too many jobs attached. What politician will float the idea that millions of jobs and billions of dollars of wealth should be wiped out with the stroke of a pen? Again, regardless of what you believe about the "bad guys" in government, none of them have the wherewithal or the will to do this. And this is ignoring the fact that a lot of people won't be able to afford an electric car--nobody will want to legislate poor people out of the only transportation they have. 

 

Places electric vehicles will become dominant? Trucking. Mass transit. Delivery fleets. Taxis/Ubers. But personal transport will likely remain a personal choice for many, many years to come. There's simply no way around it.

 

So take comfort in the fact that there are truly massive barriers between today and all-electric roadways. There will be more electric cars all the time, but someone will continue to build gas cars and someone will always sell gas to power them. I'm confident we'll always be able to feed our old cars and find roads on which to drive them. Don't live scared, embrace the moment!

 

 

You make me feel better about things for sure, love the points you make. Just getting scared because our EPA making it tougher to get parts already, but stupid kids rolling coal in diesel trucks and putting it on YouTube isn’t helping our case.

 

You make me remember money trumps everything! Haha, great points man 

[nick8086]

😁

[Miguelg510]

31 minutes ago, nick8086 said:

😁

What exactly is that??? 

[rocketraider]

To expand on Matt's observations, there was a time when gasoline was considered an unusable refinery byproduct. It still had to be disposed of, either by flaring it off or pouring it on the ground. 

 

Enter the internal combustion engine, for which gasoline just happened to be an ideal fuel. It could be used for a practical purpose instead of having to dispose of it any way you could!

 

Plus there are still a lot of gasoline-fueled small aircraft, as well as jet fueled passenger aircraft. Even the US government or the State of California is not foolish enough to believe aircraft can be all-electric powered.

 

Mmph. Can you imagine the screeching if there's all this gasoline being cracked off crude oil and it has to be disposed of because there's  nothing to use it up? But, as is typical, the religion of anti-fossil has not thought that far ahead.

[NTX5467]

I read a statement from Ford Motor Company which stated that they will be making gasoline-fueled vehicles for a good while longer . . . as they rush into production with their electric pickups and Mustangs Mach-Es, and hybrid base model Mavericks.  To me, the best alternative vehicle will be the hybrid models, which will operate on both gasoline and electricity, for a good many years.

 

It will take many years to get the charigng station infrastructure expanded to where it needs to be to support a fleet of majority electric vehicles.  Much less the supplying electrical grid (a touchy subject in TX at the time!).

 

One company is heading toward inductive charging for vehicles.  Just park your vehicle in the appointed space and it charges for up to 30 minutes.  For both passenger vehicles and over-the-road trucks, they noted.  No mention of their method of billing, though!

 

Another company is doing portable charging stations.  Looks like s small suitcase with a handle and wheels.  Put it in the car for a reserve charge, if needed.

 

ONE HUGE item related to the acceptance of full electric vehicles is what the owner will be charged to compensate for the loss of gasoline taxes to pay for roadways and repairs thereof!  Vehicle registration fees are already getting far too close to $100.00 here in TX, so just consider what it would be when you figure in the loss of gasoline tax revenue into that mix, too.  Rather than $100.0/yr/vehicle, multiply that by a factor of about "10+", even if EVs are supposed to be less expensive to operate/charge than buying gasoline to cover the same number of miles.

 

LOTS of side issues, it seems.  And to date, I've not seen a supercomputer analysis comparing a '22 Chevy Suburban to a similar EV.

 

Just some considerations,

NTX5467

[Miguelg510]

40 minutes ago, rocketraider said:

To expand on Matt's observations, there was a time when gasoline was considered an unusable refinery byproduct. It still had to be disposed of, either by flaring it off or pouring it on the ground. 

 

Enter the internal combustion engine, for which gasoline just happened to be an ideal fuel. It could be used for a practical purpose instead of having to dispose of it any way you could!

 

Plus there are still a lot of gasoline-fueled small aircraft, as well as jet fueled passenger aircraft. Even the US government or the State of California is not foolish enough to believe aircraft can be all-electric powered.

 

Mmph. Can you imagine the screeching if there's all this gasoline being cracked off crude oil and it has to be disposed of because there's  nothing to use it up? But, as is typical, the religion of anti-fossil has not thought that far ahead.

Didn’t think of non car uses.. that’s true. It’s not like I’m opposed to doing things smarter, more efficient, etc. I want clean drinking water as much as the next guy. I just don’t understand the complete demonizing of the things that helped us lead the industrialized world when the better alternative hasn’t been perfected yet.

 

for instance, plastic straws… in CA we are getting rid of them to keep them out of sea turtles nostrils, which great. But now I have a PAPER STRAW that disintegrates after my first few sips of my drink lmao.

 

the push for better works sometimes though, I remember riding in the back of my dads el Camino in the 1980’s (yes the metal truck bed with no seat belt) 😂 and getting gassed out from the unburnt fuel from his tailpipe. I’ve grown to appreciate catalytic converters. 

[NTX5467]

In the future, the internal combustion engine fuels might become a companion industry to the petro-chemical industry.  Even with the allegedly evil "Green New Deal", the petro-chem industry will not dry up and blow away . . . no matter how much some our our TX legislators might imply.  Consider, too, that many motor fuel industry players have been easing into alternative energies for several years now, getting ready for when their "fuel oils" will not be needed nearly as much.

 

A few years ago, some municipalities in TX outlawed plastic shopping bags, but some of our "know-better" state operatives claimed those bans were unconstitutional (or similar).  As we see those yellow or gray bags get blown across the countryside by the wind . . . as litter.

Edited March 1, 2022 by NTX5467 (see edit history)

[Miguelg510]

11 minutes ago, NTX5467 said:

I read a statement from Ford Motor Company which stated that they will be making gasoline-fueled vehicles for a good while longer . . . as they rush into production with their electric pickups and Mustangs Mach-Es, and hybrid base model Mavericks.  To me, the best alternative vehicle will be the hybrid models, which will operate on both gasoline and electricity, for a good many years.

 

It will take many years to get the charigng station infrastructure expanded to where it needs to be to support a fleet of majority electric vehicles.  Much less the supplying electrical grid (a touchy subject in TX at the time!).

 

One company is heading toward inductive charging for vehicles.  Just park your vehicle in the appointed space and it charges for up to 30 minutes.  For both passenger vehicles and over-the-road trucks, they noted.  No mention of their method of billing, though!

 

Another company is doing portable charging stations.  Looks like s small suitcase with a handle and wheels.  Put it in the car for a reserve charge, if needed.

 

ONE HUGE item related to the acceptance of full electric vehicles is what the owner will be charged to compensate for the loss of gasoline taxes to pay for roadways and repairs thereof!  Vehicle registration fees are already getting far too close to $100.00 here in TX, so just consider what it would be when you figure in the loss of gasoline tax revenue into that mix, too.  Rather than $100.0/yr/vehicle, multiply that by a factor of about "10+", even if EVs are supposed to be less expensive to operate/charge than buying gasoline to cover the same number of miles.

 

LOTS of side issues, it seems.  And to date, I've not seen a supercomputer analysis comparing a '22 Chevy Suburban to a similar EV.

 

Just some considerations,

NTX5467

The battery suitcase reminds me of the first publicly available cell phones that were suitcases you had to lug around! I always want to travel light and be nimble, I’m not carrying a power reserve for my car…

 

I miss Texas, I used to live in Humble with my pops, though I don’t miss duct taping the bottoms of my jeans when I mowed the lawn because the red ants would chew on me 😂

 

I’m so curious to see how the “no gasoline motor sales in CA after 2030“ is going to go. My bet with my car buddies is that will get revoked or pushed years out. 

[NTX5467]

I suspect that the 2030 date applies only to NEW vehicle sales, not all vehicles or used vehicles.

[Miguelg510]

46 minutes ago, NTX5467 said:

I suspect that the 2030 date applies only to NEW vehicle sales, not all vehicles or used vehicles.

It does, but I still think it will be pushed back. Long distance driving needs will mean at least hybrid cars… 

[avgwarhawk]

The oil industry will not go quietly.  Nor will it need to. Electric is not practical in every area. It's apparently a new exciting latest and greatest that some will want no matter what.  Similar to Apple phone 11 and the next iphone...on and on. It wears thin when the costs are astronomical to own one. Not many have 100k for the top of the line Tesla or even the base offering.   But one can afford a gas burning  KIA for 20k.  Electric will certainly be part of our overall transportation picture.  It will never be the only form.  City transportation is suited for electric.  The middle of Iowa not so much. 

[rocketraider]

2 hours ago, avgwarhawk said:

Electric is not practical in every area... City transportation is suited for electric.  The middle of Iowa not so much. 

That's what chaps my hide. For all their education and vision, the folks that beat the EV drums loudest cannot wrap their heads around that fact.

 

But when you're a coastal urban dweller, have never been outside of that environment, and cannot fathom that not everyone lives that way, I guess you can't see that what works in a large city simply doesn't work in the vastness of the rural American continent.

 

In this technologically advanced world, I can't get high speed internet out here and sometimes have to walk around the yard to get a cell signal. No infrastructure. Get the infrastructure in place and EV will be a viable option. I'm not opposed to electric per se but if I can't find somewhere to charge the thing what good is it?

[drhach]

I don't think the question of electric vehicles is as settled as people think right now. Nobody really knows the true cost of owning and operating them. Our current infrastructure supports them but I'm not sure about when they are in the majority. What will that do to our grid? The West coast already has rolling Brown outs. Add a million plus electric cars to that. Then consider the battery disposal issues. I think IC will be around for a while. 

[60FlatTop]

1 hour ago, rocketraider said:

That's what chaps my hide.

 

In an urban coastal city you might find yourself saying "In other words" frequently.

 

Colloquialisms have always been fun when the phrase rolls off the tongue. Reminds me of the time I gave a company manager a ride in my '67 Cadillac Sedan deVille.

 

He got in and exclaimed "This thing is about 6 axe handles wide!"

 

I asked "Where are you from that uses an axe handle as a unit of measure?"

 

"Boston" he replied.

[Grimy]

13 hours ago, Miguelg510 said:

What exactly is that??? 

He's showing how much room there is for a battery conversion.  🙂

[rocketraider]

37 minutes ago, 60FlatTop said:

 

In an urban coastal city you might find yourself saying "In other words"...

 

He got in and exclaimed "This thing is about 6 axe handles wide!"

 

I asked "Where are you from that uses an axe handle as a unit of measure?"

 

"Boston" he replied.

Maybe a Lizzie Borden reference?🙂 Fall River isn't that far from Boston.

 

Yes, colloquialisms are great fun. We even have a word for when we use them to deliberately confuse not-from-heres. 

 

"Gomering".😼

 

Back to topic, I also wonder about expense of upgrading my home electrical to handle an EV charger, should I ever be forced into an EV.

[BobinVirginia]

I went green for a bit. Man, my wife hated pulling that rickshaw around! 
😂

[old-tank]

2 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

6 axe handles wide

I thought that referred to the last lady to sing before the opera was over?

[60FlatTop]

1 hour ago, old-tank said:

I thought that referred to the last lady to sing before the opera was over?

Maybe it referred to his opinion of Cadillacs.

 

Anyway, my nephew has over a decade of experience with the Prius cars and speaks highly of them. That includes both new and ones purchased broken.

 

A 2016 Tesla X AWD has been catching my attention for a couple of weeks. It was at the used car lot across from the old farts morning coffee spot A 17,000 mile car with a $75,000 price tag. It was gone this morning. It is a good dealer who isn't afraid to pick an odd car. They move a lot, many shipped long distances.  https://www.barrysautocenter.com/default

 

I am certain I will own an electric car..... "before the fat lady sings".

[avgwarhawk]

[avgwarhawk]

51 minutes ago, 60FlatTop said:

 

 

I am certain I will own an electric car..... "before the fat lady sings".

 

I have no issue owning an electric car.  Many are getting sporty.  And the right motors these cars fly.   I drive 15 miles a day.  The electric vehicle would suit me just fine.  The price on these vehicles needs to come back to earth.     My nieces husband has a Tesla.  He drives from York PA to Baltimore.   He said the car drives itself.  Took a a week to get used to not driving it and letting it do its thing.  Overall he is pleased with Tesla.      

[Miguelg510]

2 hours ago, avgwarhawk said:

Made my day hahahahaha

[NTX5467]

We had a Cadillac operative who had a new CT6 hybrid with the 2.0 turbo motor.  He lived right at 50 miles from work.  Plugged the car into the slow charger at work and probably at home too.  He said one day that he had not bought gas in the past year.  Which make me wonder about the "shelf life" of gasoline in such enclosed environments?

 

I kind of suspect that many of the doubts many have about the changeover to EVs from internal combustion engines might be similar to conversations about the change in forms of "horsepower" over a century ago.

 

It seems that the concerns about battery life have been well-determined with the Prius, over its life.  There is a younger guy, locally, who will come to your location and change out the Prius battery with a Toyota factory battery.  Our former Toyota store sells him the batteries and then he returns with the old core battery for exchange.  Apparently he has a good business doing this as that is his "day job", for which he drives his Prius.

 

The current battery packs might be considered "crude" when the versions of the solid-state battery come into use.  Google that and see what you think.  It's much farther along than many might suspect, with OEM support/investment, too.

 

At one point in time, several years ago, there were some considerations about having electric vehicles make some sort of artificial noise so that pedestrians would know they were around.  NOT considering that many new vehicles make very little noise, anyway.

 

At this point in time, I suspect that EVs will be more suited for Europe than the West-of-the-Mississippi USA regions, fwiw.

 

It will be interesting to see how new vehicle dealers ease into supporting the new EVs.  GM is supposed to have some in the $30K price range, as the $200K future Cadillacs get attention, too.  PLUS how the resale value evolves, which will affect lease rates.  In some respects, it might be better to lease rather than "buy", all things considered in the short term?

 

Humongous amount of YouTube videos on the new Ford Maverick hybrid and EcoBoost.  For something with such tight supplies, Ford must have had a huge press fleet of these vehicles, it seems.

 

Enjoy!

NTX5467

Edited March 2, 2022 by NTX5467 (see edit history)

[Miguelg510]

15 hours ago, NTX5467 said:

We had a Cadillac operative who had a new CT6 hybrid with the 2.0 turbo motor.  He lived right at 50 miles from work.  Plugged the car into the slow charger at work and probably at home too.  He said one day that he had not bought gas in the past year.  Which make me wonder about the "shelf life" of gasoline in such enclosed environments?

 

I kind of suspect that many of the doubts many have about the changeover to EVs from internal combustion engines might be similar to conversations about the change in forms of "horsepower" over a century ago.

 

It seems that the concerns about battery life have been well-determined with the Prius, over its life.  There is a younger guy, locally, who will come to your location and change out the Prius battery with a Toyota factory battery.  Our former Toyota store sells him the batteries and then he returns with the old core battery for exchange.  Apparently he has a good business doing this as that is his "day job", for which he drives his Prius.

 

The current battery packs might be considered "crude" when the versions of the solid-state battery come into use.  Google that and see what you think.  It's much farther along than many might suspect, with OEM support/investment, too.

 

At one point in time, several years ago, there were some considerations about having electric vehicles make some sort of artificial noise so that pedestrians would know they were around.  NOT considering that many new vehicles make very little noise, anyway.

 

At this point in time, I suspect that EVs will be more suited for Europe than the West-of-the-Mississippi USA regions, fwiw.

 

It will be interesting to see how new vehicle dealers ease into supporting the new EVs.  GM is supposed to have some in the $30K price range, as the $200K future Cadillacs get attention, too.  PLUS how the resale value evolves, which will affect lease rates.  In some respects, it might be better to lease rather than "buy", all things considered in the short term?

 

Humongous amount of YouTube videos on the new Ford Maverick hybrid and EcoBoost.  For something with such tight supplies, Ford must have had a huge press fleet of these vehicles, it seems.

 

Enjoy!

NTX5467

All your points plus this: What is the cost to recycle gigantic batteries and how soon before people toss them into ditches like couches or old stoves because they don't want to pay to get rid of them responsibly?

 

I just watched a documentary on wind power and was stunned that environmentalist push these windmills, then they only last a certain amount of years and the expense to demo and recycle these massive blades, if they even get recycled and not sit in a giant yard and accumulate is a lot... what carbon foot print are the gas powered lifts used to get up to those things having?

 

What's the carbon footprint at the factory to make these things? The trucks to deliver them?

 

And to top it all off, these windmills are absolute meat grinders for birds lmaooo. The floor around the mills are littered with dead birds that try to fly through the blades. I'm told I can't have a steak because it's cruel to cows, but mass murder of birds is ok for the sake of the environment. 

 

The other thing I worry about is they will find a way to make a battery last a long time so people can go further in electric cars, but how dangerous will the battery be? Cell phones and Ipads blow up now occasionally. I'm not loving the though of an electrical bomb right under my butt.

[rocketraider]

Wind turbines. When a political agenda is behind something, all these unanticipated consequences are written off as collateral damage. These people do not care about the collateral damage their schemes inflict as long as the agenda is implemented.

 

Having made a career in the electric utility industry, I can assure you that renewable and alternative energy is not as green as its proponents want you to believe.

 

Make an affordable EV with some range and that can be charged in the same time as a gasoline fillup/pee break, I'm interested.

 

Pie in the sky not so much.

[Matt Harwood]

27 minutes ago, Miguelg510 said:

All your points plus this: What is the cost to recycle gigantic batteries and how soon before people toss them into ditches like couches or old stoves because they don't want to pay to get rid of them responsibly?

 

I just watched a documentary on wind power and was stunned that environmentalist push these windmills, then they only last a certain amount of years and the expense to demo and recycle these massive blades, if they even get recycled and not sit in a giant yard and accumulate is a lot... what carbon foot print are the gas powered lifts used to get up to those things having?

 

What's the carbon footprint at the factory to make these things? The trucks to deliver them?

 

And to top it all off, these windmills are absolute meat grinders for birds lmaooo. The floor around the mills are littered with dead birds that try to fly through the blades. I'm told I can't have a steak because it's cruel to cows, but mass murder of birds is ok for the sake of the environment. 

 

The other thing I worry about is they will find a way to make a battery last a long time so people can go further in electric cars, but how dangerous will the battery be? Cell phones and Ipads blow up now occasionally. I'm not loving the though of an electrical bomb right under my butt.

 

The batteries are full of such valuable stuff that they are almost always recycled. Nobody's tossing them in a ditch when the car's life cycle is over. I'm not even a little concerned that I'm sitting on some kind of bomb when driving our electric car. If you're not worried about the gas tank exploding then you shouldn't worry about batteries exploding. It happens, but it's rare. Again, don't live your life afraid of a statistical anomaly.

 

The carbon footprint of an electrical car's manufacture is probably comparable to gasoline vehicles and yes, electric cars simply move the pollution to another site. However, electric cars are more efficient at turning power into motion, meaning that for every gram of pollution emitted to generate power, the electric car goes farther than a comparable gasoline car. They are cleaner from that perspective.

 

I don't think anyone is claiming that the electric cars and alternative sources of energy are the solution to all the problems. Nobody is saying that except people suggesting that the people they don't like are saying it. But if it can help, why not give it a try? It's like being against color TVs when they first came out--nobody ever said you can't keep and use your black and white TV, but having alternatives that might be better isn't a bad thing, right?

 

If it's right for you, buy an electric car. I have one and it's quite impressive. I still prefer driving my internal combustion vehicles, but I don't understand why so many people say I have to hate one to enjoy the other (or at least understand its practical benefits). Can't they both have their place? Not everyone has the joie de vivre we have for the automobile. In fact, most folks just don't care. For them, electric or gas makes no difference. Just get me from point A to point B. Toyota has become the largest automaker on the planet catering to these people.

 

Everyone seems to suggest that if the new technology doesn't solve 100% of the problem then why bother at all? Don't let perfect be the enemy of good. Solutions will come in time and it will be something we haven't imagined yet. Small steps can eventually solve big problems. Just look at restoring a car--a lot of little jobs eventually add up to a shiny finished car.

[avgwarhawk]

37 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

 If you're not worried about the gas tank exploding then you shouldn't worry about batteries exploding. It happens, but it's rare.  

Even for a Pinto. 

[Miguelg510]

1 hour ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

The batteries are full of such valuable stuff that they are almost always recycled. Nobody's tossing them in a ditch when the car's life cycle is over. I'm not even a little concerned that I'm sitting on some kind of bomb when driving our electric car. If you're not worried about the gas tank exploding then you shouldn't worry about batteries exploding. It happens, but it's rare. Again, don't live your life afraid of a statistical anomaly.

 

The carbon footprint of an electrical car's manufacture is probably comparable to gasoline vehicles and yes, electric cars simply move the pollution to another site. However, electric cars are more efficient at turning power into motion, meaning that for every gram of pollution emitted to generate power, the electric car goes farther than a comparable gasoline car. They are cleaner from that perspective.

 

I don't think anyone is claiming that the electric cars and alternative sources of energy are the solution to all the problems. Nobody is saying that except people suggesting that the people they don't like are saying it. But if it can help, why not give it a try? It's like being against color TVs when they first came out--nobody ever said you can't keep and use your black and white TV, but having alternatives that might be better isn't a bad thing, right?

 

If it's right for you, buy an electric car. I have one and it's quite impressive. I still prefer driving my internal combustion vehicles, but I don't understand why so many people say I have to hate one to enjoy the other (or at least understand its practical benefits). Can't they both have their place? Not everyone has the joie de vivre we have for the automobile. In fact, most folks just don't care. For them, electric or gas makes no difference. Just get me from point A to point B. Toyota has become the largest automaker on the planet catering to these people.

 

Everyone seems to suggest that if the new technology doesn't solve 100% of the problem then why bother at all? Don't let perfect be the enemy of good. Solutions will come in time and it will be something we haven't imagined yet. Small steps can eventually solve big problems. Just look at restoring a car--a lot of little jobs eventually add up to a shiny finished car.

Great points too... I'm not against progress, just stuck in my old ways on some things, as men usually are especially as we get older. Dont care as much for the "damn whipersnappers" hahaha

[suntreemcanic]

Where is all the electricity going to come from?  Wind mills and solar panels are not going to cut it.  Nuclear power?

[Frank DuVal]

On 3/1/2022 at 9:44 PM, NTX5467 said:

Which make me wonder about the "shelf life" of gasoline in such enclosed environments?

The computer knows the algorithm for when the tank had gasoline added and how long it should last. Then it runs the gasoline engine to make you buy gas, or at least empty the tank of gas that might go bad. So, yes, "they" thought of that.😉

 

 

[nick8086]

Things change over time with who is driving the bus.. 

 

FYI

 

As a symbol of his faith in “the power of the sun,” Carter had 32 solar panels installed on the White House West Wing roof in the summer of 1979. These panels were used to heat water in the household for seven years until President Ronald Reagan had them removed in 1986.

 

Or just a few years ago :

 

Solyndra Scandal

Key coverage of the investigation into Solyndra, the Silicon Valley startup that collapsed, leaving taxpayers liable for $535 million in federal guarantees .

Since the failure of solar-panel company Solyndra, President O $80 billion clean-technology program has begun to look like a political liability.

He was a big car collector.

 

Some day I hope the young kids figure this out..  A cure for everything....

 

Edited March 3, 2022 by nick8086 (see edit history)

[NTX5467]

For decades, there have been laws which have been enforced against "dumping trash" in rural ditches.  The local sheriff's operatives have been quite active in enforcing those laws over the decades.  Even to the activity of looking for fingerprints on the items, if needed.  Usually, it was some elderly person who forgot to put their trash out on the appointed day for pickup, by observation.  Few tickets, but stern warnings, are usually issued unless it is a very significant situation.

 

"Core charges" usually make it financially worthwhile for battery recycling, which is easy to do at point of sale.

 

Enjoy!

NTX5467

[Daves1940Buick56S]

Just one addition. Charging a car inductively in a parking spot will be incredibly lossy unless there was some way to lower the pickup coil to ground level, and even then a lot more lossy than just plugging in. If we are trying to reduce carbon footprint it's not a good idea. How much more difficult is it to use the plug anyway? Edit: to be clear lossy means inefficient, in other words wasted energy. I lapse into engineering speak sometimes, sorry!

Edited March 4, 2022 by Daves1940Buick56S (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

13 hours ago, Daves1940Buick56S said:

I lapse into engineering speak sometimes, sorry!

Interesting. I could see engineering speak say someone had their carbon fingerprints all over that job.

[auburnseeker]

I wonder how many gas tanks have exploded while sitting dormant as opposed to haw many batteries may have shorted and caught fire while not actively being used.  Can't recall the last time I heard of a manufacturer telling you not to park your car in the garage because the gas tank would just explode,  but I do recall more than one manufacture,  telling you not to park your EV inside. 

[Miguelg510]

On 3/2/2022 at 11:46 PM, nick8086 said:

Things change over time with who is driving the bus.. 

 

FYI

 

As a symbol of his faith in “the power of the sun,” Carter had 32 solar panels installed on the White House West Wing roof in the summer of 1979. These panels were used to heat water in the household for seven years until President Ronald Reagan had them removed in 1986.

 

Or just a few years ago :

 

Solyndra Scandal

Key coverage of the investigation into Solyndra, the Silicon Valley startup that collapsed, leaving taxpayers liable for $535 million in federal guarantees .

Since the failure of solar-panel company Solyndra, President O $80 billion clean-technology program has begun to look like a political liability.

He was a big car collector.

 

Some day I hope the young kids figure this out..  A cure for everything....

 

I saw pictures of the garbage bins Regan had them throw all the solar panels and stuff away in… like get this poop outta here hahaha