Former AMC headquarters on Plymouth Road to be demolished in 2022; Detroit mayor promises same fate for the Packard Plant

[Evan S.]

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/2021/12/09/redevelopment-plans-unveiled-former-amc-plant-detroit/6440679001/

 

Detroit — Detroit may be saying goodbye to the iconic former American Motors Headquarters on the city’s northwest side, which is expected to be demolished in a new $66 million proposed redevelopment, Mayor Mike Duggan announced Thursday.

 

The site, which has sat abandoned since 2010, could become home to a newly constructed employment center that will bring 150 construction jobs and more than 300 permanent jobs to the city, officials said.

 

An agreement between NorthPoint Development and the city would sell the city-owned land, including the former AMC site and 26 residential parcels, to NorthPoint Development for nearly $5.9 million. NorthPoint said it will undertake the environmental remediation and demolition of the existing AMC complex and the cost will be credited in a tax break against the purchase price, according to the city.

 

In its place, NorthPoint wants to build two new buildings totaling 728,000-square-feet of industrial space that would be suitable for a new automotive parts supplier.

 

Duggan detailed the plans for 56 acres of the site on Plymouth Road saying, it's a step to “Erase the ruin porn from the city’s landscape.” 

"I am convinced within a couple of years, you're going to see a manufacturing facility employing 300 or 400 people to be a source of employment in this neighborhood instead of a source of embarrassment," Duggan said. "Before we're done, we're going to have this same announcement at the Packard Plant and get rid of the rest of the blight in this city."

 

The sale of city parcels and other tax incentives have not been approved by City Council and the project will also require approval from the Detroit Brownfield Redevelopment Authority and Detroit Land Bank Authority.

 

If approved in early 2022, the demolition could begin in late 2022 and redevelopment in mid-2023. The facility could open in late 2023 or early 2024, officials said..

 

It would be the second project NorthPoint Development has started in the city, said Tim Conder, vice president of acquisitions for the Missouri-based company. 

 

"I grew up on the other side of the freeway over in Rosedale Park and Detroit may be a punching bag but my goal is to make Detroit one of the top industrial markets in the country," Conder said. "Detroit is on everyone's radar screen right now... and a lot of people don't like to claim that Detroit has the proper space needed."

 

Conder said there will be robust demand for industrial space and the AMC site is ideal.

 

"We have good access to the roads and freeway, we can get into the city and cover other areas within Detroit Metro," he said.

While AMC was the last company to occupy the space, it was originally built as a Kelvinator appliance factory in 1926. The Kelvinator Corporation, established 10 years prior by engineer Nathaniel Wales in Detroit, specialized in household refrigeration appliances. When it introduced the first fully self-contained refrigerator in 1925, the company grew quickly and began construction on the site with Amedeo Leoni, who designed the plant.

 

It included an office complex at the front of the building, with a three-story factory area complete with a power plant at the back, according to Architecture Afterlife's biography of the site. 

 

After a decade, the company merged with automaker Nash Motors, becoming Nash-Kelvinator. In 1954, Nash-Kelvinator merged again, this time with Hudson Motors, forming the American Motors Corporation. At the time, it was the largest merger in U.S. history.

 

In 1975, AMC moved their headquarters from Detroit to Southfield and then-Mayor Coleman Young was so angry, Duggan said, "he pledged never to buy an AMC vehicle again, and I have no doubt that he said that."

 

Chrysler bought the company in 1987 and used the site for years until moving to Auburn Hills in 1995. 

 

"Basically, for the last 25 years, this has been nothing but an eyesore and a drain on the neighborhood," Duggan said.

 

Duggan said it would cost $10 million to demolish it and clean up the site and "coming out of bankruptcy, we couldn't justify it," he said. 

The iconic building has been “so stripped down by past owners that nothing is salvageable,” Duggan said, adding they will be having conversations with the community to see what mementos can be placed in AMC’s memory.

 

When General Motors, Stellanis, and Ford pick a new supplier, they give the city a chance to pitch them first, Duggan said, adding that's the hope for the future of the AMC site.

 

State Rep. Karen Whitsett, D-Detroit, says the proposal is long overdue as she’s been living in the area since 1969.

 

“It didn't seem like this day was going to come soon enough," Whitsett said. "To see it massively decline, it's become such an eyesore for our community, and I can't say enough about this. I’m so happy the mayor kept his word."

 

Police Commissioner William Davis has lived in the neighborhood since 1983. He told The Detroit News following the announcement there were previous concerns over how the site would be cleaned up.

 

"I hope they know what they're getting into because there are loads of fuel tanks still sitting underneath the site," he said.

 

Rev. Cynthia Lowe, head of community outreach in the city, moved to the neighborhood in 1979 with her sister and her two kids. She said at the time, it was a beautiful community with a Kmart, Dominos Pizza and AMC was a beautiful, well-maintained building.

 

"This was a wonderful community. We used to have block club meetings trying to decide who had the prettiest home and you couldn't decide," said Lowe, president of Paved Way Block Club in District 7. "I watched this building... it's almost like a nightmare. I've come here and tried to stop people, even corporations, from dumping here... I remember the person who bought this building and cannibalized it. He took all the bricks off, windows out, and that's when the dumping began."

 

Lowe, 70, has high hopes for the community once the project begins: "I wish more people will come back like 1979. Buy houses, live in them, raise their family in them because this is a nice place."

 

 

 

 

Edited December 10, 2021 by Evan S. (see edit history)

[plymouthcranbrook]

As I said in another Forum, I am surprised it wasn't torn down years ago.

[TAKerry]

No idea what this building is, but it sounds like its long overdue. I love history, and am a building contractor specializing in historic renovations, but at some point things gotta go. Nothing special about a warehouse/manufacturing plant that has already been stripped out. Put in something useful to the community. Now if someone had a practical use for a giant abandoned building that would be another story.

[plymouthcranbrook]

2 hours ago, TAKerry said:

No idea what this building is, but it sounds like its long overdue. I love history, and am a building contractor specializing in historic renovations, but at some point things gotta go. Nothing special about a warehouse/manufacturing plant that has already been stripped out. Put in something useful to the community. Now if someone had a practical use for a giant abandoned building that would be another story.

If someone shows up send them down the road to the old Packard plant.

[Guest]

"Detroit may be saying goodbye to the iconic former American Motors Headquarters"

 

How astute, seeing as AMC said goodbye to Detroit 46 years ago.

All of these old plants should have been dynamited the day after the manufacturers left them.   Nobody is coming back.

[58L-Y8]

If they could retain the tall central tower, incorporating it into the new structure would be worthwhile.  An elegant tribute to what was.

[60FlatTop]

In 2012 my wife and I drove to Detroit on a "business trip" to pick up NOS exhaust parts for my '60 Electra. We stayed for the night in a nice old building on the riverfront. When we left we drove from the city center south on Fort Street. It looked post-apocalyptic. My wife was crying as we left the city. Storefronts were shattered with fallen buildings visible through the broken store windows.

 

I was glad to be driving a Texas built Chevy, anyway.

 

A recent look at the area by satellite shows the buildings gone and the street lined with parking lots.

[Peter Gariepy]

Being a Detroit native, growing up in Rosedale Park just a stones throw from the property, AND an auto enthusiast, I see both sides. The nostalgia and history of the building is not worth retaining.  If it was so important someone would have found a way to restore it a long time ago. Never happened. Detroit needs to upgrade.  Time for it and other valuable real-estate to be repurposed.

FYI:  Both my sets of grandparents homes are gone. Not only are the homes gone, the entire neighborhood has been whipped including the streets, and the area has been de-annexed from the city of Detroit. BUT... the home I grew up in and the entire Rosedale Park neighborhood is BETTER than when I lived there in the 1960s.  Stunning even.

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3966667,-83.2260746,245m/data=!3m1!1e3

 

[1912Staver]

Sorry but I have a completely different view. Once buildings like this are gone it all just becomes a modern building blight. Cookie cutter like every other modern building. About as soul less as can be imagined. And selling a plot like that for peanuts. The developer must be rubbing his hands together. 

 A single gas station { in a desirable location here in Vancouver } recently sold for $72,000,000.00. Yes, seventy two million for a single gas station. Canadion $ so "only " about $60 Million U.S.D. 

 Buildings like this are a treasure , once they are gone they are lost forever. Such little vision.  Sad beyond words . Don't these people ever travel to Europe ?

[Peter Gariepy]

Not sure how germane the gas station story is. Are you implying the gas station should have been saved instead of sold?

 

Yes, I've travelled through Europe. I think you might be over romanticizing things a bit.  Yes, buildings like Rome's Parthenon, England's Stonehenge, and France's Eiffel Tower have all been retained, as have countless others.  But I'll bet you for every 1 of those, there are 50 other would-be historical properties that have been wiped and replaced. Notre-Dame in Paris was obviously worth saving because its remarkable historical value. Donations to date to save it are in the Billions.  The AMC building isn't anywhere near the same league when it comes to historical value. If it had significant historical value, a groundswell of donations would have materialized to save it.

 

I can think of a number of properties in Detroit that deserve saving ahead of the AMC plant.  Example:  Detroit's Michigan Central Station. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_Central_Station. Luckily the building is being revived (but very much repurposed) by Ford Motor Company and not for public use but commercial use.

 

It's simply not realistic to save them all.  For example:  The Ford River Rouge plant is NOTHING like it was when built 100 years ago, when it was the largest integrated factory in the world. It has progressed with time.  As should the AMC building.  Detroit doesn't need another monument to the past. Its needs modern factories that generate jobs.

[Jim Skelly]

I went to a fence company just east of the Kelvinator Building/former AMC Hq. in 1994 for some parts.  I had to be buzzed into the building.  This once-grand building was used by Chrysler Jeep & Truck Engineering as late as around 2009 or 2010.  It was still in nice condition then.  The next owner stripped the complex of steel and other scrap-worthy parts from what I read several years later.   Once you have to start putting bars on windows and doors, and install cameras and an alarm system, it's all over.    

[1912Staver]

My point was that giving a site this size to developers for that sort of price is practicly a  city subsidised hand out. So many worth while things could be done to make that building viable, and generate jobs. Is the developer the Mayors brother in law or something ?

 Developers want new builds, they make more money.  So many North American city's are becoming a wasteland of new commercial buildings that end up being a sterile endless sprawl. And very non human friendly. Once a city looses it history it is just another Hong Kong. 

[1912Staver]

Where I live in Vancouver it is at least as bad. The very wealthy " New Canadians " this area has been deluged with since the mid 1980's all want to live in the best parts of town. And no sooner do they buy a desirable early 20th century home it is bulldozed and a modern monstrosity is built in its place.  They have in effect destroyed everything that made the desirable areas desirable except for the street address.  All the Canadians that have lived here for decades are pushed out to the fringes or further. Changes beyond belief , but unless you are an Asian multi millionare you dont even want to drive through let alone live there. So much loss. It could all slide into the sea and 99% of the people that used to live here wouldn't even care anymore.

 Its like a city that has fallen to a invading / occupying army. Except not a shot was fired, China just bought anything worth owning. And then razed / rebuilt it out of all recognition.

Edited December 11, 2021 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[Jim Skelly]

If you go to the Detroit News website and look at drone images and interior photos, there isn't much left to this complex or neighborhood.  The mayor estimated a cost of about $10 million to demolish and clean up the site.   I am all in favor of preserving architecture, but it's a lost cause in this neighborhood, as well as the area around the Packard complex.  We are losing a lot of our architectural heritage, but there aren't the number of jobs in Detroit that there was a century ago.  As a result, you have high unemployment, poverty, crime, blighted properties, many vacant schools, and a worn-out infrastructure due to the loss of a tax base. 

[Peter Gariepy]

12 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

My point was that giving a site this size to developers for that sort of price is practicly a  city subsidised hand out. So many worth while things could be done to make that building viable, and generate jobs. Is the developer the Mayors brother in law or something ?

 Developers want new builds, they make more money.  So many North American city's are becoming a wasteland of new commercial buildings that end up being a sterile endless sprawl. And very non human friendly. Once a city looses it history it is just another Hong Kong. 

Not sure it's a fair analogy.

• The Chevron property was prime real estate.  To repurpose required the removal of a trivial building an a few underground gas tanks.
• The AMC building had been abandoned for 25 years and I assume given to the city of Detroit by then Chrysler corporation. I'm sure Chrysler would have sold it for cash had it been marketable.  Add to that the environmental remediation and demolition would cost 2x more than the cost of the property itself.

[JamesR]

There are probably good reasons for tearing down abandoned buildings, and the 300-400 jobs created will make a difference to many families, but the idea that an urban renewal project is going to save a place like Detroit, or resurrect it as "one of the top industrial markets in the country" is something I'll have to see before I believe.

[1912Staver]

6 minutes ago, Peter Gariepy said:

Not sure it's a fair analogy.

• The Chevron property was prime real estate.  To repurpose required the removal of a trivial building an a few underground gas tanks.
• The AMC building had been abandoned for 25 years and I assume given to the city of Detroit by then Chrysler corporation. I'm sure Chrysler would have sold it for cash had it been marketable.  Add to that the environmental remediation and demolition would cost 2x more than the cost of the property itself.

Are we saying cheaper is better ? Or are we saying that better is worth paying more for in the long run ? Such little long term vision.

[Peter Gariepy]

14 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

Are we saying cheaper is better ? Or are we saying that better is worth paying more for in the long run ? Such little long term vision.

I said neither.  I said your analogy is flawed. 

[1912Staver]

My whole point was based on a $ per square foot basis. But yes, apart from a developer being involved it is an apples to oranges situation.  But still a developer driven , for profit situation.  I have to admit I have never visited Detroit.  So I have no real Idea of land value in that area. Coming from an area where a crack shack on a 33 foot lot sells anyday of the week for at least a Million has probably skewed my way of  looking at land. This one is in a pretty down and out area. Gives you a bit of an idea. In a good area you probably would not even belive the price.

 

 https://www.rew.ca/properties/3726851/3119-charles-street-vancouver-bc

 

Edited December 11, 2021 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[Ronnie]

Often commercial/industrial property owners will tear down the obsolete buildings on a piece of property to avoid paying taxes on them. If such property has been turned over to the city, county or state governments it should be sold to the highest bidder to get it back on the tax rolls instead of just letting it sit for sentimental reasons.

[mike6024]

This is the website of the proposed developer. They plan some auto industry supplier to occupy the space once it's built.

 

https://www.beyondthecontract.com/

 

Under the proposed development agreement, Northpoint would pay nearly $5.9 million for to acquire 56-acres  of publicly-owned property, including the city-owned AMC property, approximately 26 residential parcels owned  by Detroit Land Bank Authority, and an 8.5-acre parcel immediately to the west recently purchased by the Detroit Brownfield Redevelopment Authority.

Northpoint will undertake environmental remediation and demolition of the existing AMC complex and that cost would be credited against the purchase price. 

“This redevelopment is a sign of continued collaboration to deliver jobs and reestablish property value for the community, said Tim Conder, Vice President of Acquisitions for NorthPoint Development. “Mayor Duggan places the community as a priority when considering how to tackle these projects.”

 

 

Edited December 11, 2021 by mike6024 (see edit history)

[mike6024]

NorthPoint Development to Redevelop Former Cadillac Stamping Plant in Detroit

 

Posted on December 11, 2020 by Kristin Hiller in Development, Industrial, Michigan, Midwest
DETROIT — NorthPoint Development and Michigan-based LoPatin & Co. have unveiled plans to redevelop the 44.8-acre former Cadillac stamping plant in Detroit. The project scope includes the demolition of an abandoned factory and the construction of a new 684,000-square-foot, Class A industrial building that will be geared toward automotive suppliers, advanced manufacturing and logistics users. The project is expected to generate a total private investment of $47.9 million and create 450 full-time jobs. The city and Michigan Strategic Fund are reimbursing $3.3 million for brownfield remediation work. The property has a history of manufacturing uses dating back to the early 1900s and requires extensive cleanup of the soil and asbestos removal in addition to high demolition costs, according to NorthPoint.

[Peter Gariepy]

53 minutes ago, mike6024 said:

NorthPoint Development to Redevelop Former Cadillac Stamping Plant in Detroit

 

Posted on December 11, 2020 by Kristin Hiller in Development, Industrial, Michigan, Midwest
DETROIT — NorthPoint Development and Michigan-based LoPatin & Co. have unveiled plans to redevelop the 44.8-acre former Cadillac stamping plant in Detroit. The project scope includes the demolition of an abandoned factory and the construction of a new 684,000-square-foot, Class A industrial building that will be geared toward automotive suppliers, advanced manufacturing and logistics users. The project is expected to generate a total private investment of $47.9 million and create 450 full-time jobs. The city and Michigan Strategic Fund are reimbursing $3.3 million for brownfield remediation work. The property has a history of manufacturing uses dating back to the early 1900s and requires extensive cleanup of the soil and asbestos removal in addition to high demolition costs, according to NorthPoint.

 

The Cadillac, AMC, the Packard properties (and many others) litter Detroit and surrounding areas.

 

Detroit was an industrial Mecca through the 1970s. It still to this day produces 2,000,000* cars a year. But its past successes have left behind abandoned factories. The city leaders can sit back and watch these properties languish into neighborhood eyesores and financial burdens while they reminisce about the good-old-days, or they can encourage revitalization by private investors who renew the property into state-of-the-art factories that generate jobs.

 

It's good to see capitalism at its best.  Buying and repurposing property to help revitalize the city and industry, and yes, making a profit. Better to build/rebuild in Detroit than China.

 

* "Not only is the Detroit region the birthplace of the automotive industry, it currently produces more cars and trucks than any other state in the country. In 2017, more than 2.0 million cars and trucks rolled off 11 Michigan assembly lines – over 1.7 million at assembly plants located in the Detroit region. Including suppliers, there are over 1,600 automotive-related manufacturing establishments in Michigan.  The state is also home to 17 original equipment manufacturer (OEM) headquarters or technology centers."  source

[Jim Skelly]

The AMC property had reverted to the county for back taxes.  Detroit did a land swap with Wayne County, and added some more vacant property, to provide 56 contiguous acres of property to develop.  Downtown Detroit has made a remarkable comeback after its bankruptcy.  Many of the downtown office buildings that had been vacant for years (some for decades) are being restored and filled with jobs for college-educated people.  There are still nice neighborhoods in Detroit, and many that need rehabbing.  Many of the older neighborhoods are over 100 years old, so those are more challenging to restore (smaller lots, alleys, no driveways, wooden structures).  A large development on the east side near where Hudson Motor Car Company was, is being infilled with housing to replace empty lots.  As I recall, that is a 78-acre development, and the largest residential rehab in the country.  Speaking of the Cadillac stamping plant that was recently razed, that was originally a Hudson stamping plant.  

[prewarnut]

I am amazed that amidst an organization of people, most of whom are interested in collecting, restoring and/or preserving old vehicles that there would be anyone here voicing the opposite when it comes to architecture. Yes everyone's entitled to their opinion. Yes, there are numerous factors which need consideration (which I nor most people here don't have first hand knowledge of): AMC HQ site remediation, structural stabiity, cost to custom re-fabricate features, etc, etc. However as previously mentioned, once gone these architectural features are gone forever. All our cities will start looking the same. I have been a student of architecture and worked for an architectural office for a number of years before my career choice diverged. I will note this, this building with the tower is somewhat unique. It is a bit of modernist (turn of the 20th C modern)-industrial/Italian rennaisance/slight Art-Deco (although it precedes the Art-Deco period). It seems to me that given the city seized it and is working out a "deal" with a developer if they were motivated (dare I say cultured?) enough they could insist on efforts to save the tower and front facade and potentially the next 100 feet back or more. If necessary the lower massing (4 floors) could be glassed in with a taller steel superstructure akin to an 1890's train shed or new addition extending back as far as desired. There are other ways to incorporate such. Many organizations have prized retaining external facades where possible: The British Museum in London, Stadschloss in Berlin, Railway Exchange Bldg in Chicago, Syracuse Univ Administration Bldg, the US Postal Bldg in Washington D.C., the Farley Bldg in Manhattan... I will rest my case.

[motoringicons]

 

 

When it comes to conserving old architecture, an old phrase applies "The loudest cries come from the cheapest seats". 

 

The people that are the most vocal about saving an old building are always the ones that are completely absent when it comes to contributing to their conservation. 

Edited December 12, 2021 by motoringicons (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

Unfortunately with old buildings { and old cars for that matter } either you own it or you don't own it. Why would any of us put substantial $ toward a building we don't own ? Your point makes even less sense than the things I brought up in the discussion with Peter.  Very few of us are in a position to be generous benefactors to the public good. Does that mean our point of view is of no value at all ? I am with prewarnut 100% on this one.

Edited December 12, 2021 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[Evan S.]

13 hours ago, Peter Gariepy said:

Not sure how germane the gas station story is. Are you implying the gas station should have been saved instead of sold?

 

Yes, I've travelled through Europe. I think you might be over romanticizing things a bit.  Yes, buildings like Rome's Parthenon, England's Stonehenge, and France's Eiffel Tower have all been retained, as have countless others.  But I'll bet you for every 1 of those, there are 50 other would-be historical properties that have been wiped and replaced. Notre-Dame in Paris was obviously worth saving because its remarkable historical value. Donations to date to save it are in the Billions.  The AMC building isn't anywhere near the same league when it comes to historical value. If it had significant historical value, a groundswell of donations would have materialized to save it.

 

I can think of a number of properties in Detroit that deserve saving ahead of the AMC plant.  Example:  Detroit's Michigan Central Station. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_Central_Station. Luckily the building is being revived (but very much repurposed) by Ford Motor Company and not for public use but commercial use.

 

It's simply not realistic to save them all.  For example:  The Ford River Rouge plant is NOTHING like it was when built 100 years ago, when it was the largest integrated factory in the world. It has progressed with time.  As should the AMC building.  Detroit doesn't need another monument to the past. Its needs modern factories that generate jobs.

Notre Dame was once in a similar situation to the AMC Plymouth Road headquarters and the Packard plant, dilapidated and slated for demolition.  I suspect that most today are appreciative of Louis Philippe's decision to instead have the cathedral restored, and likewise many future generations of automotive and/or history enthusiasts would appreciate the continued existence of the former Packard plant and AMC headquarters.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Evan S. (see edit history)

[1935Packard]

1 hour ago, Evan S. said:

 I suspect that most today are appreciative of Louis Philippe's decision to instead have the cathedral restored, and likewise many future generations of automotive and/or history enthusiasts would appreciate the continued existence of the former Packard plant and AMC headquarters.

 

I'm a Packard nut, but I personally don't see how the existence of the former plant matters.  If you want a physical place to go to revel in all things Packard, you can go to the proving grounds or the Packard museums.  But at least to me, it's the cars that matter: Wherever a Packard car is, that's the place to be. 

[hidden_hunter]

15 hours ago, mike6024 said:

Northpoint will undertake environmental remediation and demolition of the existing AMC complex and that cost would be credited against the purchase price. 

Yeah because that's totally not going to be ripe for corner cutting... 

 

9 hours ago, prewarnut said:

Many organizations have prized retaining external facades where possible:

Facadism is rife in Melbourne, where developers will claim the heritage of the building in their sales brochures then proceed to knock everything off save for the front wall to build yet another concrete/glass monstrosity 

[1912Staver]

Unfortunately it all comes down to the developer making the most amount of money in the least amount of time.  When $ goes against history , history is virtually always the looser.

 

In some ways it's sort of like an older aunt asking her 20 something Nephew if she should spend money fixing up a much loved 40 year old car she has owned sinse her college days but has fallen into disrepair, Or buying a new Tesla or whatever wonder car has the attention of the young set at the moment. The 40 year old car means nothing to the Nephew , but gee wiz a TESLA, do you even need to ask ! Instant cool..... for about 2 weeks. After that it is just another Tesla , in an ever larger  sea of them. Meanwhile the 40 year old car has gone off to the crusher. Gone forever.

Edited December 12, 2021 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[Jim Skelly]

Detroit has hundreds of buildings that could be considered worth saving.  Most of these are schools, churches, apartment buildings, and commercial complexes such as the AMC and Packard plants.  Where do you get the investors to come in and save these buildings, restore them as needed, secure them from vandals, and repurpose them for employing people?  If the AMC complex had been adjacent to downtown, it might have been feasible to restore it, but it's in the middle of nowhere.  The Packard complex is surrounded by vacant lots, some rundown businesses, and old houses that would never be considered aspirational.  The Packard Administration Building was cleaned out to be restored, but progress has apparently stopped.  The Rickenbacker plant still exists.  It is in a residential neighborhood, and is nothing remarkable to look at.      

 

Is This the End (Again) for Detroit's Packard Plant? | Hemmings Motor News

[8E45E]

A lot of architectural history is lost when attempting to bring an old building up to current day codes, including ADA compliancy and fire regulations.  Hallways and other public access areas have to be no less than a certain width, and elevators installed if its greater than one floor in height for one.  Sometimes the cost of bringing it up to current standards alone far exceeds the expected revenue generated from future tenants.  And a new building owner cannot claim that they are 'grandfathered' as they are changing the ownership, and most likely, the purpose of use.

 

Craig

[1912Staver]

Sounds like I should visit Detroit.  Here in Vancouver even the most derelict building is worth millions upon millions. And no one but the very rich can take part. It is very difficult for anyone to find any space at all that doesn't come with either a crushing price tag , or crushing rent. Young people who want to start a small buisness that requires more space than a laptop are completely priced out. A small shop building out here in the burbs will be $2500.00 / month and up. And thats for a building you can build new for about $60,000 excluding land cost. I am currently building one myself.

 

[8E45E]

3 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

Sounds like I should visit Detroit.  Here in Vancouver even the most derelict building is worth millions upon millions.

Huge difference!!

 

Vancouver is like NYC, San Francisco, Seattle, etc., where rents are similar Vancouver (with the homeless population to match.)

 

Detroit, Camden, and many other 'rust belt' cities that never recovered from the 1960's riots or mass exodus of fabricating and manufacturing are still hopelessly blighted aside from a few pockets and suburbs.

 

Craig

[Peter Gariepy]

57 minutes ago, Jim Skelly said:

Detroit has hundreds of buildings that could be considered worth saving.  Most of these are schools, churches, apartment buildings, and commercial complexes such as the AMC and Packard plants. 

 

As a Detroit native... This statement is on the mark. The church my grandparents attended in the 30s-60s was stunning. Then abandoned, looted, and now gone from the map.  The elementary school I attended still exists.  Empty. Looking very forlorn.

 

Both were/are historical and worth saving in some peoples eyes. Yet, one is long gone, and the other remains for no other reason that it costs money to demolish.

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.390352,-83.230997,3a,75y,237.54h,85.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s96mlQIesFVw_cIXyOHaTuA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

 

15 hours ago, prewarnut said:

I am amazed that amidst an organization of people, most of whom are interested in collecting, restoring and/or preserving old vehicles that there would be anyone here voicing the opposite when it comes to architecture. 

I don't oppose saving historical buildings.  But you have to chose your battles. You cant save them all. The same with cars. I cringe when I see a nice 60s car wasting away.  But the chances of it being saved is in proportion to someones interest in it, and the size of their pocketbook.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Jim Skelly said:

 secure them from vandals, 

Vandalism seems to be the only entertainment left in Detroit.

When the citizens have all given up and turned a once thriving metropolis into an urban war zone, how can a city like this ever recover?

There's nothing wrong with the real estate there, the problem is the inhabitants.

[prewarnut]

I get it...It takes a vision, enthusiasm and "the force" to get things done when "rule by committee" is at play. In Bridgeport, across the harbor from where Locomobile used to be, they razed most of the neighborhood to re-develop. There isn't any meaningful harbor traffic except the cross sound ferry service since the bananna importing stopped 15 years ago. I actually talked to a political candidate about this. Instead of getting some meaningful shipping back to provide tax revenue, well, not much has happened. They saved a major league hall of famer's family home in that area, James O'Rourke's only to demolish it 12 years ago. If ignoring a port was going to happen then they could have at least developed a gentrified waterfront set of shops on a smaller scale of South Norwalk, CT. Also the train stops across from there so people can visit without parking. Maybe they could have enticed Two Roads Brewery in Stratford to move there....PT Barnum's museum is a few block from there too - but no....not to be. Now they paved a large parking lot and there's a Bass Pro Shops big box store sitting on the harbor whereby that could have been planted really anywhere. Nice work isn't it? This crap is going on all too many places unfortunately. Am I opinionated, you betcha! We all should lobby for "better". As far as Detroit it is a different animal. It is spread out and rehabilitating small areas at a time would be needed. I've never seen a more stark divide then the change in asphalt and concrete into green boulevards and slate roofs in a matter of like 200 feet going from Detroit into Grosse Pointe Shores. Because the affluence is so far removed from downtown and other areas of the city proper I imagine there is an "out of sight, out of mind" theme going on....

[Bryan G]

Location, location, location. Sure, there are places where a 1/4 acre might be worth millions, and then there are places where thanks to remediation that 1/4 acre could have a value of a negative million. I've not been to Detroit but I'm hearing some good things about there present and their future. Do I want to buildings preserved? Indeed, but the time to save them was long, long ago. There isn't much left to save in 2021. I think of several local projects, in "distressed" downtowns, where someone sought to revamp some historic old retail buildings. Many hundreds of thousands of dollars later, work has stopped and the finish line is still several hundred thousand away...all to bring the building back to what it was in the 70's: an undersized storefront with no parking, no foot traffic, and nobody lined up to rent or buy it. I don't like it, because I want to see the buildings preserved, but at some point it has to make business sense. In another town, sure, a no-brainer. Be it my small town's old Western Auto, or Detroit's old AMC facility, there are places where the cost to restore vs rebuild such a building would be a rounding error in the value of the project but location!

[8E45E]

Unfortunately, our province is just in the process of demolishing Canada's very first 'Curtain Wall' building:  https://edmontonjournal.com/news/politics/structural-demolition-of-albertas-1951-legislature-annex-building-begins   Very poor decision in my mind, being of architectural significance.  It would not have bother me to have paid a one-time $20 charge on my taxes as my share to cover the cost of mechanical renovations.

 

They claimed it would cost way to much to 'repair' and maintain:  https://www.archpaper.com/2020/09/iconic-legislature-annex-building-in-edmonton-alberta-set-to-be-demolished/

 

Craig