1938 Studebaker front end repair.

[SC38dls]

Ed, on my first car a 57 DeSoto in 1963 I used a bucket of bondo above the headlights but I filled in the holes first with steel wool. Then we got a gallon of black porch & deck enamel and two four inch brushes and painted it. You were high tech using a roller. It looked good from twenty feet. I’m sure that was because we used the expensive paint that cost 8 or 9 bucks. 
dave s 

[edinmass]

Dave, this one is for you. Driving on the lawn at Pebble getting ready for the show. It’s a view seldom ever seen by most car guys.  Do a good job on the Stude, and I will help you fill out the application for the show. 👍

[edinmass]

4 minutes ago, SC38dls said:

Ed, on my first car a 57 DeSoto in 1963 I used a bucket of bondo above the headlights but I filled in the holes first with steel wool. Then we got a gallon of black porch & deck enamel and two four inch brushes and painted it. You were high tech using a roller. It looked good from twenty feet. I’m sure that was because we used the expensive paint that cost 8 or 9 bucks. 
dave s 

 

Pay for paint? Never! Just used free leftovers. Hell, chrome was silver spray paint. “Early Ed restoration techniques!”

[pmhowe]

My second car was a 1938 LaSalle four door sedan. I drove it through college. A great running car. I repainted the fenders with a brush. I think the most charitable observer would say that it only looked OK at twenty feet. That was when I was in my 'teens. Having restored lots of furniture since then, I think today I could paint a small car with a brush and- with lots off elbow grease and sandpaper and rubbing compound - make it look good from a few feet. However, my next car will be done with a sprayer, and not an Earl Scheib (is that the correct name?) flit gun job.

[SC38dls]

Thursday 11/11 Happy Vets day to all you fellow vets. 

First try at skimming the right front fender. I did very small amounts of the filler (thank you Walt for the recommendation it’s easy to use) so I think that caused more ridges so more sanding.  I then put a light coat of black sand-able primer on and sanded some more. I can see where I need some more and other spots where it needs more sanding. I think the outside edge panel (top pic) looks decent. Does this seem like it is correct or not?  Thanks for your comments and help. 
dave s 

[Gary_Ash]

To bring out the high and low spots after a very light coat of spray paint or Dykem, try using a piece of 150-240 grit paper glued to a 4" to 6" diameter disk of 1/4" aluminum or 1/2" smooth plywood to lightly sand.  As you move it around, it will hit the high spots and leave the lows untouched.  Using paper on a soft backing or just using your hand will sand almost everything without indicating the high or low spots.  Then use your sanding board to take down the highs.  Fill in the lows and try it again.

[mike6024]

I really recommend those foam sanding blocks I mentioned earlier.

 

[edinmass]

The only good decision I ever made was to become a mechanic, and not a body man.

[SC38dls]

It’s Friday Benny!  11/12/21. 
Second layer of skim coat on and sanded with 220 and 400 grid paper. I found a great way to see flaws with these old eyes by accident-  I used my phone camera on closeup lens settings and moved it over each area. I have more work to do for sure !  
 

Another question for my handy advisors. Do I skim coat the fender where I did not have to do any work as the accident did no damage? All I did was strip the paint then epoxy primed it. 
dave s 

Edited November 12, 2021 by SC38dls (see edit history)

[edinmass]

Like the famous line in the John Candy movie eating the “The Big 96’er”.............when it comes to sanding.......”You ain’t finished yet!”

 

 

Edited November 12, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history)

[edinmass]

Too funny not to share.......watch the clip, it’s worth the time. 
 

 

[SC38dls]

I just checked how much time I’ve spent fixing this wreck. Started Sept 18 and I spend about 4 days a week and about 4.5 hours a day working on it. So right now I have 8 weeks x 4.5 days = 32 days x4.5 hours a day ave = 144 hours. As I have no idea what the hell I am doing I figure I should be paid minimum wage or $7.25 hr. 
so this comes to a grand total of $1,044. Plus the $1400 I have in parts, tools, travel to get parts and I have a total cost so far of $2444. Compare that to the insurance estimate of over $32000 ( settled for 32000 - parts car of 20,000 = 12,000 -ins incentive to not force totaling car of 20% or 2400 leaves $9400 to me ) makes me think I should quadruple my pay!  I’ll still have enough left over to throw a party for all the people that gave me instructions, encouragement and advice! I just have to figure out how to tell my wife about 100 people are going to invade our house! 
dave s 

Edited November 12, 2021 by SC38dls (see edit history)

[edinmass]

You forget the satisfaction of making a repair yourself ............priceless. My favorite part of the hobby......fixing something that has been through a bunch of hands that they couldn’t figure out. Watching the old timers years ago when I could fix a problem they couldn’t.............it was fantastic. A few actually swore at me......I considered it high praise. With an extensive education that on paper is supposed to mean something, I find much more pleasure and self fulfillment fixing 100 year old junk in the garage.......go figure.

[mike6024]

 

Roll Sandpaper 180    $20.50 + $9.20

 

Sanding Block   $18 + $8

 

Eastwood also sells this type sanding blocks. 2.75 inches wide and the adhesive paper is easy to use. Or this ebay store will discount shipping on multiple items

 

https://www.ebay.com/sch/directautobodysupply/m.html

 

Check out other great buys on auto body supplies I have listed on eBay.  I will combine shipping costs.  Please contact me after you finish buying your selected items.  I will send you a combined invoice with the correct shipping costs.  Do not use the "Pay Now" button until you receive the combined Invoice. 

 

 

[SC38dls]

Thanks Mike, I’ve got a block and wet/dry paper in various grids up to 3000. So I think I’m set. 

[mike6024]

3 hours ago, SC38dls said:

Do I skim coat the fender where I did not have to do any work as the accident did no damage?

 

No

 

You could spray it with the sand-able primer though, and sand that with a fine grit.

 

[edinmass]

 

Norton is the ONLY sandpaper I buy..........expensive, and worth it.

[J.H.Boland]

2 hours ago, edinmass said:

 Watching the old timers years ago when I could fix a problem they couldn’t.............it was fantastic. 

When I was restoring my '21 Chevy years ago ,I encountered an old neighbor who once owned a similar car. He used to tie his bull on behind to take it for it's next stud service. He was really paranoid about breaking the pinion gear when the cone clutch grabbed, so much so that he left the rim lug nuts a bit loose. When the clutch grabbed, the wheel spun inside the rim, shearing off the valve stem. By gosh, though, he never broke a pinion gear !

I asked him if he had ever squirted neatsfoot oil on the clutch leather or adjusted the little flat headed bolts under the clutch leather to create high spots, he looked at me like I must be some kind of alien.

Edited November 12, 2021 by J.H.Boland (see edit history)

[Dave39MD]

One thing I did that helped with sanding my fenders is I made a flexible sanding block with plexiglass and taped a heater hose on the back so I had something to grip. It was about two feet by the width of the sand paper. I used the roll tape mentioned above and it would curve to the fender contour and sand evenly. If that makes any sense. 

 

Dave 

Edited November 12, 2021 by Dave39MD (see edit history)

[wayne sheldon]

Just another silly thought pattern.

I haven't been able to work on my project much the past few months (extremely annoying!). But about two weeks ago, I grabbed a few minutes (less than an hour!) to check out some original model T hood hooks I had. The original set I was planning to use ended up being just barely too short. This other set I had was about a quarter inch longer (Ford wasn't terribly consistent in the brass era years). However, one of them was slightly bent. In a hurry to do SOMETHING, I clamped the hood hook in a vise and tried to straighten it. One should never try that when uptight and in a hurry. Even trying to be careful, the hook slipped in the vise and the cast iron hook broke. It was several days before I could get a little more time working on it. However, I "V" ground one of the breaks slightly, and brazed it (not the best repair, but the best option at this time!). I ran out of time before I could finish it, but a few days later I cleaned it up a bit. I found it needed just a bit more braze on both breaks, but out of time again, I set it aside. A couple days later, I touched up the brazing, re-filed the surfaces, and painted it. I do not think anyone will ever notice that the piece was broken.

 

Those hood hooks (originals!) are not readily available, however, they are not really rare either. And decent reproductions are not expensive! There is even a good chance that if I dug a bit deeper into a couple of my parts boxes that I may have another matching one? I could probably make a half dozen phone calls, and find a good one from people I know! But I very much dislike being the person that broke a hundred year old part. I mean, It has survived for so long! I don't want to be the one that ends its reign of usefulness.

There is a special satisfaction in repairing a broken part. Especially if you somehow were involved in breaking it.

Have a wonderful day Dave!

W2

Edited November 13, 2021 by wayne sheldon
I hate leaving typos! (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

54 minutes ago, J.H.Boland said:

By gosh, though, he never broke a pinion gear !

Way back in time I got a job as a "millwright" in a foundry (glorified name for mechanic in a continuous self-destructive situation). They had a crane with an electromagnet to pick loads for smelting. The old operator was pretty rough on the machine and the previous mechanic got tired of tightening the turret bolts that would stretch. He replaced them all with hardened bolts. I think right before his retirement lunch.

The old operator was really hopping the day the new bolts all sheared and he tripped over in the cab. Those hardened bolts didn't stretch a bit. But it was a lot easier tightening up the Grade 5's than setting the crane upright.

 

To the present, when you get down to the really fine guide coats a couple of colored 3/4" felt tip markers can do a quick job at the 320/400 grit level.

Edited November 12, 2021 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

[SC38dls]

Wayne you and Ed have been great with your encouragement and support. I agree the satisfaction I’ve gotten doing this repair has been terrific. To think almost 50 strangers have jumped in to help accomplish this repair is amazing. I don’t really have the words to express my gratitude as I am sure I would not be enjoying this with out all of the great advice and support from these forum members. Hopefully the final outcome will not disappoint any of you. 
dave s 

Edited November 12, 2021 by SC38dls (see edit history)

[Digger914]

13 hours ago, SC38dls said:

Another question for my handy advisors. Do I skim coat the fender where I did not have to do any work as the accident did no damage?

You don't skim coat so to speak because it's not your regular repair filler, but if you are really into sanding and want those fenders to look like glass you, can lay down a thin layer of a glazing compound. You really have to like sanding, or want your paint to shine like the sun because that stuff is so hard it takes forever to sand.

[SC38dls]

I dislike sanding all most as much as hammer/dolly work after days and days of doing it. I think I should enter an arm wrestling event after all of this and maybe I could win a pitcher of beer or two!  My arms haven’t seen this much exercise in twenty years!  No glazing compound will be going on these fenders 

dave s 

[Jim Skelly]

Dave,

 

Let the condition of the rest of the body and paint be your guide.  If the rest of the car is slightly weathered, you don't want to make the fenders look like showroom condition. 

 

Filler can have the tendency to separate after time if it is applied over an undamaged area with a hard edge such as a factory crease or rounded fender.  You have demonstrated that you have the ability to do the work with patience and confidence.   Just take your time and you will know when it looks right to you.

[TAKerry]

Coming along nicely Dave, though I think you are selling your services short, I believe minimum wage is up to $16. now, LOL.

I am not an expert, and may have been doing it wrong, but I will try to get the 'mud' put down to as near perfect as I can tell before I put ANY paint or primer etc. on it. That way youre not clogging up your sand paper with paint instead of the filler. As for the guide coat just a very lightly coat is needed, it should not cover like you would think. 

 

I dont think I would 'skim coat' the entire fender but I would take out any dings that you may have. I would not be happy doing as much as you have only to put a finish coat on and see a couple of dents in a place that you did not work on.

[SC38dls]

Saturday 11/13/21. A day that will live in infamy (at least in our family), my oldest brother was born 1942 rest his soul. 
 

The flexible dura-block sanding block bends to the contours of the fender nicely. I sanded for about 1 1/2 hours yesterday and couldn’t move my fingers last night. Arthritis and the size of the block just doesn’t work. My knuckles are the size of acorns so I had to find another way of doing the sanding. A two by four won’t work as the curves are too sweeping. The sanding pads with handles are the same way. Seeing peanut butter has been a staple in my diet for 70 some odd years I have a good collection of jars in the garage I use for nuts and bolts. Jif being the butter of choice has a nice size plastic somewhat ridgit somewhat flexible jar that just so happens to fit my hand and the curve of my fenders very well. Two rounds of duck tape takes the little ridge at the top and bottom out perfectly. The sand paper fits as well. I can sand easily holding the jar!  I even found out how much water or not I put in the jar helps with the amount of pressure needed to remove scratches. I did a layer of 400 and 800 grid on the right fender and my hands still are usable. I highly recommend this process to anyone with curved fenders, arthritis or not. It makes sanding a hell of a lot more tolerable. 
 

A little filling and a lot more sanding to do. 
dave s 
 

Edited November 13, 2021 by SC38dls (see edit history)

[Graham Man]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lxh82tEhuow

 

38 Pontiac coupe series update. Bondo work has begun and shes looking like a 3w coupe.

[dibarlaw]

As somone who painted cars in the 1970s working in a body shop was an experience in economics.

 I was the new kid. According to shop service manager I did great work .... if only I could do more work a little faster. I could never work up to flat rate times. I do not believe I ever saw abrasive paper finer than 600 grit Wet or Dry. That was used prior the rubbing out a lacquer finish. The finest paper used prior to spraying a finish was usually #400 W/D on lacquer. #320 or #360 for Acrylic Enamels. #220 or #240 we would use for Dulux enamel. There was always a compromise as to the substrate being prepared for the eventual topcoat and how much "tooth" was needed for proper adhesion.

 A fellow I worked for in his private shop (he always had a waiting list of customers) NEVER used anything finer than #180 on the body prior to using primer surfacer. We may have shot 3 coats of primer surfacer then block sand with #320 prior to a top coat of acrylic enamel. #400 if Lacquer.

 I do not recall ever having a problem with sandscratch swelling. As most of us agree hand sanding was no fun when one is using 20 year old fingers let alone arthritic 70 year old ones. I believe #320 is fine enough prior to your high build primers and surfacers. Oh there were no such things as "High Build" primers back when I was in the shop. We just did not thin out the primer as much...

 These #800 up to #1200 grits were used only for exotic clear coat custom paint jobs.

 

[SC38dls]

Not knowing what I’m doing has it’s drawbacks for sure. Is it possible I am over sanding the fenders and making the skim coat too smooth?  I’ve done 800 grid on the skim coat not the rest of the fender. If I saw a scratch I did more sanding. Right now I would but the right fender up against the smoothness of a baby’s behind ( before he loaded the diaper of course). Is that too smooth? 
dave s 

[SC38dls]

I am going with what Digger914 and Wayne Sheldon and a few others have suggested. Sand to 400 grid. If I still see scratches sand some more. As I figure my peanut butter jar sander is not as good as professional tools ( mine does taste better though) I did the final with 800 and I believe I got the final scratches out. There has been talk about Pebble cars going to 1500 grid to get that mirror finish so I’m about have way to Pebble. If there is a concours in Iowa or Nebraska I should be in good shape. On to the rest of the non skim coated fender sanding!  
dave s 

[edinmass]

Correctly sanding a fender is easy, do it ten times longer than you think you need to, and your half done!

[Walt G]

All looking good! Sorry to be so silent lately regarding comments, but there are enough here telling you the right things to do and you indeed are doing it all correctly.

It has been some time since I bought primer/filler paint( and need to buy some once again) but if I find something I like that works for me I stick with it. I really liked the Fill N Sand primer surfacer that was made by Du Pont. 131S a gray primer. after using that and sanding I then would use a black primer as the last coat before spraying on the color coat.

I never used a machine to sand primer, did it all by hand with a foam round pad that ad a strap at the top back to slide ones hand into to keep the pad on your hand. Also used a soft rubber block as well.  Once the color coat is sprayed on let it set, over night always gives at least 8 hours. The final coats of color ( sanding in between after several coats) I added a bit of clear to the paint/mixed it together. The clear mixed with the pigment of the paint after it drys gives a harder surface ( this is lacquer - as mentioned I don't paint in the modern stuff) to use the fine sand paper on . Yes, lacquer drys fairly fast and hardens fairly quickly, but I always let it sit more then necessary and have never been disappointed. I like using lacquer - sure takes longer BUT if in time when the car is finished and you get a scratch - you can spot paint that scratch in after sanding and use and air brush to apply the paint so you don't get the over spray you would from a regular touch up gun or full size spray gun.

This advice may all be archaic and newer products may be simpler/easier ? ( I learned how to do all this in the early 1970s  doing 2 cars in succession one right after the other - a 1941 Packard , then a 1931 Franklin all done weekends, holidays, over the summer , vacations etc. - my life for 2 - 3 years  )

Your car is coming out great and we are all seeing the true meaning of "hands on"  restoration. This is a real education for everyone viewing this , and realistically is giving all a  first person look at what it takes to get the job done properly.

 

Edited November 13, 2021 by Walt G (see edit history)

[SC38dls]

Walt, your help and thoughtful comments are welcome anytime no matter how many are being kind and offering advice. Your words often help explain what I don’t really understand that others are saying sometimes.  You have a gift of detail and clear explanation of a process that makes sense to me. I appreciate that and really hope you will continue to do that for this thread. Thanks 

dave s 

Edited November 13, 2021 by SC38dls (see edit history)

[Walt G]

Dave, I just speak what is on my mind, always have, always will. "Translating" how to do something in and understandable manor is what I have done my whole life - I taught 5 to 12 year old kids art for 35-40 years , it makes you want to see them "get it"  with as little frustration as possible. I do the same with the stories I write , make it interesting, get to the point, and it will be remembered for a long time and then the information will be passed on. You can't put a price or value on making someone happy or proud of what they did or own and share with others. I am just glad to have the opportunity to help out once and a while. I sincerely appreciate your kind words.

Walt

[mike6024]

Things are changing drastically in California. I have some left over epoxy paint that isn't even allowed to be sold in the sate any more. Many of the "PPG" products are not allowed to be sold anymore. Only the lowest "VOC" types of paint are allowed to be sold. And they are going in the direction of allowing only water based paints for automobiles. It's been that way with house paint for a while now, no more oil or alkyd paints for the house. Painting pros are learning how to use water base on cars and supposedly those products are good and getting better. I'd imagine that with water base paint the prep and cleaning and de-greasing is even more critical. The last time I bought epoxy primer it was of a different brand and lower VOC that the type I bought previously which was no longer available. So yes materials and techniques are changing over time and what state you are in matters a lot too.

 

[TAKerry]

I would like to see your peanut butter jar sanding block. My 60 yr old hands are slightly arthritic, but in my case I have found I am losing strength in them. I think working construction for 40+ years has had a negative effect. I find that I have a hard time holding large objects, to the point that its hard to hold a full drinking glass. I prefer one with a handle. Sorry it doesnt hold beer, I gave up on all of that stuff years ago. Im not sure I would be able to use your sander.

[SC38dls]

It’s just an empty Jif peanut butter jar I think it’s about 1 quart. You can use it with or without the lid. I put water in it just to give it some weight but that’s not necessary. Without the lid you can hold the open part very easily also. I duck taped standard size paper which fits about 3/4 of the way around it. I haven’t removed the old worn out paper just taped the new one over it and it works very well for me. 
dave s 

[60FlatTop]

I remember my first experience with the finer grit finish paper. The guy was showing me finished examples and rattling off the grit. I thought was telling me the prices of the paint jobs  

 

"This is 1000. This is 1500." I was reaching for my wallet. 

[prewarnut]

I've not done this in a long while....and I don't see this point mentioned but isn't it important to "wet" the surface every once in awhile to check the sheen? The whole concept of wet-sanding....I may not have followed the dialogue fully. As a follow up on that if there are still very, very small dimples or waves going back down to 220 or adding filler and resanding will only start to mar the surrounding, sanded surface. Would glazing compound be the best final surface and sanded level here (over only the entire damaged surface or areas needing massaging)?