Anybody want to buy a genuine Stutz on the cheap (2500.oo)??

[dustycrusty]

 This popped up in Mid Michigan a few minutes ago.....

 

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/775556149872034/

[dustycrusty]

According to my reading of the CCCA guidelines, it qualifies as a Full Classic!

 

https://www.classiccarclub.org/approved-classics

 

 

[alsancle]

I think there are very few of the package cars and a few more of the Diamond T version.

[padgett]

"Rear engine" ? Bet Dan Short could have it nice in a month.

Edited August 8, 2020 by padgett (see edit history)

[Rusty_OToole]

Not only rear engine, but horizontally opposed 4 cylinder with independent rear suspension 12 years before the first VW microbus.

Later... I was wrong about the opposed 4 cyl, it had a 4 cylinder engine but it was a conventional inline job. Some had American Austin engines, later ones a Hercules.

Edited August 8, 2020 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[capngrog]

Now that's pretty cool.  I had no idea that Stutz produced something like that.  I'm still trying to wrap my brane around the perceived advantage of having a rear engine in a delivery truck of that type.  I see that the rear doors are pretty far above the ground ... I guess to allow room for the engine and transaxle

 

I found a photo of the rear of such a truck, I think it's a 1931:

 

A shot of the front interior:

 

Side view:

 

By looking for more photos of the truck, I guess I've answered my question of "why a rear engine?"  It looks like the front floors are very low (no transmission or drive shaft hump) requiring a short step up into the cab and the middle cargo compartment.  Small packages could be kept on the rear "shelf" above the engine, not requiring stooping or bending over to load or retrieve the smaller parcels.

 

 I found this photograph of how the engine and transaxle appear to be modular:

It seems to have been a pretty advanced concept for the time: c.1931.

 

I'd still like to see details of how the engine mounted to the transaxle and drove the rear wheels.

 

Cheers,

Grog

 

 

[capngrog]

2 minutes ago, Rusty_OToole said:

Not only rear engine, but horizontally opposed 4 cylinder with independent rear suspension 12 years before the first VW microbus.

 

Thanks Rusty.  Have you been able to find any more information on the "power module"?  It looks like there was significant interest in rear wheel drive vehicles during the late 1920s and early 1930s with most folks (including me) attributing the development of the rear engine and transaxle to Ferdinand Porsche, the father of the Volkswagen. 

According to Wikipedia, there was someone else involved in the rear engine/transaxle design efforts:

"Barényi (first name Bela) is also credited with first conceiving the original design for the German people's car (the Volkswagen Beetle) in 1925,^[3] – notably by Mercedes-Benz, on their website, including his original technical drawing,^[4] – five years before Ferdinand Porsche claimed to have made his initial version.^[5]"

 

Interesting stuff from "way back when".

 

Cheers,

Grog

[padgett]

And don't forget the 1934 Tatra and 1931-33 V570 (prototype).

 

I've always liked Tatras.

Edited August 8, 2020 by padgett (see edit history)

[Rusty_OToole]

I have a Ballantine book from 1972 'Racing Stutz' that tells the history of the Stutz car company. The last chapter is about the Pak Age Car.  I suppose it was a last ditch effort to stay in business by Stutz after their car sales dwindled away.

[edinmass]

4 hours ago, dustycrusty said:

According to my reading of the CCCA guidelines, it qualifies as a Full Classic!

 

https://www.classiccarclub.org/approved-classics

 

 

 

 

Nope....commercial, and NOT a Stutz.

[1950panhead]

Condition Used - Fair

Early 1930's Stutz milk/delivery truck. Originally rear engine, quite rare!! No engine, it was made into a concessions stand years ago. The nice pictures are what it would look like fixed up. $2500 or offer, no title... bill of sale. Marty 989-307-02 one one

 

[Walt G]

Styling wise looks very much like the White Horse delivery vans that used a engine from Air Cooled Motors in Liverpool, NY. made in the late 1930s. 

I have sales literature on both the Pack-Age-car and the White Horse. Air Cooled Motors  was a company formed by former Franklin engineers Carl Doman and Ed Marks. Both those men I knew but only knew Carl briefly before he passed away, Ed Marks I got to know reasonably well, as I helped host the former Franklin company employees at a luncheon every year in the 1970s, and Mr. Marks ( that is what you called him never Ed) would attend.  At one of those meetings I asked him about how the Reo Flying Cloud and Franklin Olympic both being the same car ( Franklin bought complete cars from Reo minus hood, engine, hubcaps, transmission)  would see Franklin claim and advertise that the Olympic had an inch longer wheelbase .  There was a rumor for decades around why that was a true claim - in some specific  cases, and I wanted to know the truth. Well I had about 40 people present rolling their eyes and not knowing where to look, this included other former employees who were there ( chief draftsman, test driver, another engineer etc)  Mr.Marks didn't really answer that question but did look at me and give a small smile . ☺️

[padgett]

Spindle ?

[8E45E]

On 8/8/2020 at 8:13 AM, alsancle said:

I think there are very few of the package cars and a few more of the Diamond T version.

I believe that is correct.

 

Craig

[8E45E]

That one for sale is rather interesting as it appears to be a street vendor's truck, selling product from the curbside.  I wonder if the "Dutch door" setup on the RH side was done at the factory, or modified after delivery.

 

Craig

[Joe in Canada]

21 hours ago, edinmass said:

NOT a Stutz

???

Edited August 9, 2020 by Joe in Canada (see edit history)

[alsancle]

21 hours ago, edinmass said:

 

 

Nope....commercial, and NOT a Stutz.

Actually Ed it is.   The first ones were manufactured by Stutz just before their bankruptcy.   Diamond T took over after.

 

How much fun to park next to a full custom Dietrich at the next grand classic? 

[padgett]

Little easier to read: Note it is a "Car". I maake the firing order 1 2 4 3,  plug gap .025, points .020

 

 

 

 

Edited August 9, 2020 by padgett (see edit history)

[Joe in Canada]

Actually CCCA says all automobiles in their list  ( The Classic Car Club of America defines a Full Classic as a “Fine” or “Distinctive” automobile. But it does say all Stutz   (Stutz – All except 1915 HCS ) But it also says distinctive and for being a Stuz this one is defiantly distinctive. 

Edited August 9, 2020 by Joe in Canada (see edit history)

[padgett]

I like the "defiantly". Fits.

[John_Mereness]

Maybe on the cheap on the front end, but black hole of money on the back end. 

[John_Mereness]

22 hours ago, edinmass said:

 

 

Nope....commercial, and NOT a Stutz.

Ed is correct - CCCA does not accept commercial: " ... cannot be considered:  2. Commercial Vehicles including Hearses and Ambulances.  Station Wagons are considered individually" =  (see Classification Procedures page - which generally follows the list of Approved Classics as listed in the directory ex. 2019 Page 17, Second Major Heading).

 

As to the Stutz part, I would have to read more and curious what they are powered with ? 

[edinmass]

1 hour ago, alsancle said:

Actually Ed it is.   The first ones were manufactured by Stutz just before their bankruptcy.   Diamond T took over after.

 

How much fun to park next to a full custom Dietrich at the next grand classic? 

 

Incorrect......it’s a commercial vehicle. Not a Stutz car. Stutz fire trucks are not allowed either. While built by Stutz, it’s not a automobile, it’s a commercial vehicle. Thus, it’s not a Stutz car.

[padgett]

Next you will be saying a Jeep FleetVan is a commercial vehicle. Would certainly be popular at a show.

 

BTW I always thought that a "Commercial Vehicle" like an ambulance or hearse was rebodied by someone.

 

 

Edited August 9, 2020 by padgett (see edit history)

[capngrog]

On 8/9/2020 at 11:09 AM, 8E45E said:

That one for sale is rather interesting as it appears to be a street vendor's truck, selling product from the curbside.  I wonder if the "Dutch door" setup on the RH side was done at the factory, or modified after delivery.

 

Craig

 

The Craigslist advertisement stated: " ... it was made into a concessions stand years ago."   My guess is that the "Dutch door" setup was some sort of a field modification to enhance the truck's function as a concession stand.  Of course it could have been the forerunner of today's "food trucks".  Other than the large semi-mobile rigs used at carnivals, county fairs etc.   Were there any "food trucks" back in the 1930s?

 

Cheers,

Grog

Edited August 10, 2020 by capngrog
fix typo (see edit history)

[edinmass]

I think they are a neat vehicle. There was an extensive story on them published back in the 80’s. From design to build, it was an interesting story. The idea was a power plants that could be changed out in fifteen minutes. It had some kind of cradle set up. If memory serves me, there are about a dozen left. Most unrestored and rough. 

Edited August 10, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Rusty_OToole]

17 hours ago, capngrog said:

 

The Craigslist advertisement stated: " ... it was made into a concessions stand years ago."   My guess is that the "Dutch door" setup was some sort of a field modification to enhance the truck's function as a concession stand.  Of course it could have been the forerunner of today's "food trucks".  Other than the large semi-mobile rigs used at carnivals, county fairs etc. were there any "food trucks" back in the 1930s?

 

Cheers,

Grog

They called them lunch wagons. According to this, the first American lunch wagon was made in 1872 and a few years later you could buy one ready made from a wagon manufacturer. I suppose they started putting them on truck chassis as soon as they were available. Before lunch wagons there were booths or coffee stalls in cities, selling food and drinks. In England there were street vendors of meat pies, hot baked potatoes, muffins and other foods going way back. Philadelphia was known for having street vendors of pepperpot soup as far back as the late 18th C.

 

https://scalar.usc.edu/works/the-evolution-of-the-american-diner/the-original-lunch-wagons

 

https://scalar.usc.edu/works/the-evolution-of-the-american-diner/the-original-lunch-wagons

[8E45E]

1 hour ago, Rusty_OToole said:

They called them lunch wagons. According to this, the first American lunch wagon was made in 1872 and a few years later you could buy one ready made from a wagon manufacturer. I suppose they started putting them on truck chassis as soon as they were available. Before lunch wagons there were booths or coffee stalls in cities, selling food and drinks. In England there were street vendors of meat pies, hot baked potatoes, muffins and other foods going way back. Philadelphia was known for having street vendors of pepperpot soup as far back as the late 18th C.

 

https://scalar.usc.edu/works/the-evolution-of-the-american-diner/the-original-lunch-wagons

 

https://scalar.usc.edu/works/the-evolution-of-the-american-diner/the-original-lunch-wagons

The ones that pulled up to a jobsite, or an industrial area at break time and lunch time were 'lunch wagons',  or 'coffee trucks', etc.  (We called them the 'Maggot Wagon').  And in a neighborhood loaded with children, or at the circus, it would also have a large frozen selection of ice cream bars, Popsicles, etc.

 

Craig

[Restorer32]

Pak Age Cars are not particularly rare. 

[zipdang]

Yuck Trucks? Roach Coach?

[George Cole]

On 8/10/2020 at 2:05 PM, 8E45E said:

The ones that pulled up to a jobsite, or an industrial area at break time and lunch time were 'lunch wagons',  or 'coffee trucks', etc.  (We called them the 'Maggot Wagon').  And in a neighborhood loaded with children, or at the circus, it would also have a large frozen selection of ice cream bars, Popsicles, etc.

 

Craig

On Cape Canaveral and Kennedy Space Center we called them a 'Roach Coach.'

[Restorer32]

We fired the roach coach that used to stop at our shop. Suspecting that some of the food was not exactly fresh we started distracting the driver while we marked the underneath of the wrapped buns with a felt marker. 3 weeks later the same buns were still for sale on the truck .

 

[SC38dls]

In the early 70’s I sold computers for Burroughs in Chicago. My first sale of 2 small, what they called L2000’s were to a company that ran a fleet of these trucks. The system printed a manifest of every item on the truck each day. When the driver returned they marked the number of each item being returned. Their cost and pay were based on items sold. This got entered  into the system and the next days truck inventory was automatically adjusted. We sold that system to hundreds of companies across the country. It worked very well for inventory control and profitability for those companies. Health departments watch over those trucks pretty closely and they started recommending the system to companies that didn’t use it. I loved that as my pay was based on commissions and I got a small percentage each sale. 
dave s 

[dustycrusty]

PRICE DROP! 

 

Reduced to 2000.oo today!

 

  Best deal on a Stutz since since that ill-conceived 1971  CBS show "BEARCATS!" was cancelled and George Barris sold off the  2 "recreated" machine gun toting Stutz Bearcats he built for the series........

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aX_bDkaNE0o

 

Edited August 18, 2020 by dustycrusty (see edit history)