1931Horch450 Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 Hi. A friend has a 1931 Horch model 450 limousine. It appears to be original and complete, but it is not running. The car has been stored in a garage for 60 years. It needs a restauration. It is a rare car, only 194 of these were built in 1931. How much would a car like this be worth? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel boeve Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 18 minutes ago, 1931Horch450 said: Hi. A friend has a 1931 Horch model 450 limousine. It appears to be original and complete, but it is not running. The car has been stored in a garage for 60 years. It needs a restauration. It is a rare car, only 194 of these were built in 1931. How much would a car like this be worth? There was one in an auction 2 years ago in Belgium .Is it that car ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt G Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 And the condition of the car you seek the value for is???? Minus parts? what level of restoration needed? original with all pieces and parts?? Condition of interior, top fabric, tires, wheels, plating ? Does it run? It may help us give you an answer if you post a photo and answer the questions . 😩 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 You need to post some pictures. There is wide variation based on condition and other factors. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1931Horch450 Posted June 30, 2020 Author Share Posted June 30, 2020 Walt G and alsancle Thank you for your reply. I will post pictures later. All the original parts are there except the radiator lid. Exterior has some rust here and there but overall condition of the body is good. The inner lining of the roof has fallen down so a restauration of the interior is needed. Have you heard of any other Horch 450's being sold and prices? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellis66 Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 Without pictures, in the 150 to 175, they don’t bring the 853 type money but still a very nice car. One sold in PA (private sale) a couple of years ago for 250. Was nice not original but not restored. william ellis - DKW Club of America https://m.classic-trader.com/uk/cars/search?make=78&sorting%5Bsorting%5D=datePublished_desc&pagination%5BentriesPerPage%5D=60&pagination%5Bpage%5D=1&_locale=en_GB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1931Horch450 Posted July 1, 2020 Author Share Posted July 1, 2020 wellis66 Thank you for your reply. 150' to 175' dollars is in the price range we expected. Nice to hear that the car sold in Pennsylvania reached 250' dollars. We live in Europe. My friend wants to sell it in Germany, thinking the prices might go a little higher in the car's home country. Any thoughts on that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1931Horch450 Posted July 1, 2020 Author Share Posted July 1, 2020 10 hours ago, daniel boeve said: There was one in an auction 2 years ago in Belgium .Is it that car ? Daniel Boeve Thank you for your reply. No, it's not the same car. This one has never been attempted sold anywhere. Do you know how much money the car in Belgium was sold for, the name of the auction house and the condition of the car? Any information would be of help to establish the approximate value. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockingchairmotors Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 Your car would definitely get more money in Germany. I had 2 many years ago. A 930V sport cabriolet and a 830 BL pullman limo. Both went back to europe. I believe there is an active Horch club in Germany. I have a couple of contacts in Germany that have Horch autos. If needed I can get their contact information for you. Where in europe are you located? Any possibility of a picture? I might have a sales brochure for the 450. I will check. My email if you would like to contact me is rockingchairmotors@yahoo.com. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1931Horch450 Posted July 2, 2020 Author Share Posted July 2, 2020 23 hours ago, Rockingchairmotors said: Your car would definitely get more money in Germany. I had 2 many years ago. A 930V sport cabriolet and a 830 BL pullman limo. Both went back to europe. I believe there is an active Horch club in Germany. I have a couple of contacts in Germany that have Horch autos. If needed I can get their contact information for you. Where in europe are you located? Any possibility of a picture? I might have a sales brochure for the 450. I will check. My email if you would like to contact me is rockingchairmotors@yahoo.com. Jeff Hi Jeff, thank you for the information. Interesting to hear about your two Horch cars. Did your cars end up in Germany? This car is located in Norway. It will soon be moved to a better and bigger garage where photos will be taken of it, I think in the end of July / beginning of August. I will send you photos of the car as soon as I get them. It would be great if you could send me the contact information to your german contacts. My email is: Horch450@yandex.com I don't know how to find potential buyers in Germany. Listing it for auction is not an option. I guess reaching out to your contacts and to the german Horch clubs might be a good start to find a serious buyer. The sales brochure sounds interesting too. Is it original? How much do you want for it? Henry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 Interesting thread, I've been on this forum for so long it seems like a rerun of the Andy Griffith show. Andy says gee, Barney, I have this great old car, had it shipped back from overseas when I was in the service, bet it's worth a fortune. Well, Barney says, let's start searching the Internet! Gee, Andy, lots of these cars have gone for millions, bet yours is worth a fortune. Andy says yeah, I'll just put the information out that I have it, bet they'll beat a path to my door, no reason to bother with such trivial things as pictures, description, and the price I have in mind! So here we are. Everyone who owns a car has done some research, it's so easy these days, and HAS A PRICE IN MIND. Without fail. The old days of "gee, I don't know what it's worth" are gone. Post pictures. Post a price. Go from there, but don't pretend that "gee, I can't get any info"...you're trying to smoke out a guy with lots of money who'll throw it at you without thinking, yet the people with money, with some very sad exceptions, know better... 2 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel boeve Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 On 7/1/2020 at 11:06 AM, 1931Horch450 said: Daniel Boeve Thank you for your reply. No, it's not the same car. This one has never been attempted sold anywhere. Do you know how much money the car in Belgium was sold for, the name of the auction house and the condition of the car? Any information would be of help to establish the approximate value. Thank you The car has not been sold .It went up to 50.000 euros and that was to low .No more for sale now . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1931Horch450 Posted July 2, 2020 Author Share Posted July 2, 2020 Thank you Daniel. What was the condition of the car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1931Horch450 Posted July 2, 2020 Author Share Posted July 2, 2020 23 minutes ago, trimacar said: Interesting thread, I've been on this forum for so long it seems like a rerun of the Andy Griffith show. Andy says gee, Barney, I have this great old car, had it shipped back from overseas when I was in the service, bet it's worth a fortune. Well, Barney says, let's start searching the Internet! Gee, Andy, lots of these cars have gone for millions, bet yours is worth a fortune. Andy says yeah, I'll just put the information out that I have it, bet they'll beat a path to my door, no reason to bother with such trivial things as pictures, description, and the price I have in mind! So here we are. Everyone who owns a car has done some research, it's so easy these days, and HAS A PRICE IN MIND. Without fail. The old days of "gee, I don't know what it's worth" are gone. Post pictures. Post a price. Go from there, but don't pretend that "gee, I can't get any info"...you're trying to smoke out a guy with lots of money who'll throw it at you without thinking, yet the people with money, with some very sad exceptions, know better... trimacar Thank's for your interesting thoughts on this thread. The photos of this vehicle are not available yet. The sole purpose of this thread is to get some realistic idea of this rare car's value, not to "smoke buyers out" of this this forum, as you suggested. Thus, any information on Horch 450's been sold, selling price and how many of these cars that still exist is of interest to us. Thank you very much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 I stand by my comments. Without good pictures and a detailed description, asking for a value is just a wish....post pictures, description, location, and contact Information for who has title in hand, and a serious buyer might appear... but posting “belongs to a friend, no pictures” doesn’t work well....Not bashing, just opining.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BucketofBolts Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 How does the saying go? "A picture is worth a thousand words". With this vehicle a few images may be worth four thousand words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Carl Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 52 minutes ago, 1931Horch450 said: The sole purpose of this thread is to get some realistic idea of this rare car's value, .................................... Please believe me, friend : everyone here would like to do exactly that. But you quite simply cannot get any REALISTIC valuation without quite a few pictures. We have a saying here, which I wouldn't be at all surprised to find an equivalent in Norwegian. "One picture is worth a thousand words ". Give us at least 15-20,000 words worth. At LEAST 6,000 words worth of all aspects of the interior, 3,000 or more of the engine, spend most of the rest on the exterior, emphasize any problem areas, please. If you have any breath or energy left, please give us a few thousand words underneath the car. REALITY ? We have another saying here : "Get Real !" Yes, you certainly could get real by verbal means. But you have not yet even got started on the 20,000 or so well-crafted words sufficient to replace pictures. Yes, I believe that you may be totally bilingual. The English you have used here is idiomatically absolutely perfect. You just haven't used ENOUGH English at this point. Insufficient chit chat leads me to another colloquialism : " Garbage in, garbage out". Meaning; we just can't give you a REALISTIC idea of what "a car like this" would "be worth", because your initial posting begs the question : " A car like WHAT ?" And so, our dear and warmly valued new friend, we simply ask for more information. MUCH more. Everyone who has been drawn to your topic here is intrigued by the mere mention of Horch. I know I sure am. I fell in love with an early '30s 6 cylinder, (120 p.s.) Maybach convertible sedan. It sat out in Seattle under a tan canvas tarp. Great original condition. Black, red leather. I was just a 13 or 14 year old kid. But I often pedaled my bicycle out to Mr. Trudeau's house because he was very nice to me, and let me wander among his old cars for hours. He would let me lift the tarp and open the hood and doors. My grandmother was a superb cook. If not for the fact that it would serve to disrespect her memory, I would say that I enjoyed the smell of that magnificent - UH OH ! BucketofBolts has just posted. It might be seen as my stealing some of his thunder, so by way of apology, I best wrap this up. At any rate, to use one last clever saying : "You better pack a lunch" and get to typing. Or perhaps better yet : send a friend to quickly get us whatever pictures he or she possibly can. Welcome to AACA forums ! You have generated a lot of curiosity here ! 🤔😊 - Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 The problem with a Horch, even the more desirable 853, is that they live in a slim market which for the most part is in Germany. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel boeve Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 8 hours ago, 1931Horch450 said: Thank you Daniel. What was the condition of the car? It needed complete restauration in and out , alsoo had a division window and a lot of wood inside . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 Horch has a fascinating history, and their cars were quite impressive. There was actually a short discussion a few months back on (in of all things) the model T forum about a Horch being worked on in Canada. Not much information there that will help any, but it may be interesting to some reading this. https://mtfca.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=10940 I read a good article on them many years go in the CCCA magazine. We don't see or hear of them often in this country. I do recall seeing one in a museum here some years back.Value would most likely need to be determined in the European market. I sure do hope you can get a lot of good photographs and share them here. With adequate information about the condition of the car and key components, there are a few people here that could help with evaluation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1931Horch450 Posted July 3, 2020 Author Share Posted July 3, 2020 Thank you all for your contributions to this topic. I totally understand that you crave some photos of the vehicle. Horch automobiles are, in general, rare gems that naturally create some attention, simply because there were few made, not many of them are still around today and it was an exclusive car brand. I will upload some photos as soon as I get them. The car is not in my part of the country but I will be going there soon. In the meantime I think it is possible to discuss general value based on the general information about the car's state as provided initially. I will provide photos and Møre detailed information in a few weeks. Thankful for any information about the Horch 450: previously sold vehicles, prices, auction houses that have sold such cars, number of cars still excisting etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1931Horch450 Posted July 3, 2020 Author Share Posted July 3, 2020 Thank you Daniel. This car also has that division window between the driver and the passengers. Do you have any more information about that car? It would be interesting to hear what happened to it after the auction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilgrim65 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 What happened to the promised photos , I think posting and seeking information is a reciprocal commitment and very interesting and satisfying when all parties comply . 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 Actually, it is impossible to talk general value with out 100x more information. Dave Coco's tongue in cheek comments are actually spot on. Without detailed pictures and a lot more information we are all just wasting our time. I can tell you this, regardless of condition and history, plan the process taking much longer to sell than you think, and the return will be much less. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellis66 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 While this is a different model and style you can get a feel for the looks and style. Only 1/2 a million. https://hymanltd.com/vehicles/6558-1937-horch-853-coupe/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel boeve Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 3 hours ago, 1931Horch450 said: Thank you Daniel. This car also has that division window between the driver and the passengers. Do you have any more information about that car? It would be interesting to hear what happened to it after the auction. This was a Horch 8 model 350 pullmann saloon estimated at 45-60.000 euros and it didn't meet the reserve .It was from the national Auto museum from Belgium who liquidated some stock that never will get restored . Our members are asked to help you with pricing so you can sell it as high as possible and thats all are very good for you and to compensate for our help it would be nice if you do later a donation to our club for all the help you did get . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 Something to think about too is if the engine is of some sort of standard design in engineering via use of such as cast iron, steel, and ... matched to "flaws" of the marque (if any ?) - there are a lot of really neat things out there that that have inherit problems via design and materials used (ex. aluminum) and they are ungodly expensive to restore and challenging to the most resourceful and deep pocketed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deaddds Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 2 hours ago, wellis66 said: While this is a different model and style you can get a feel for the looks and style. Only 1/2 a million. https://hymanltd.com/vehicles/6558-1937-horch-853-coupe/ Nice design but asking and actual selling price may be quite different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockingchairmotors Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 Henry Tried to send you an email and it bounced back. please confirm your email. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BucketofBolts Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 Since it was marketed in Belgium there should be some photos. Because it was stashed away in some museum the condition should not be all that bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, wellis66 said: While this is a different model and style you can get a feel for the looks and style. Only 1/2 a million. https://hymanltd.com/vehicles/6558-1937-horch-853-coupe/ The Hyman link is to a reproduction of Bernd Rosemeyer's “Manuela” special 853 coupe. A spectacular car that would be worth many millions if it existed today. What does that have to do with this thread? Edited July 3, 2020 by alsancle (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel boeve Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 8 hours ago, BucketofBolts said: Since it was marketed in Belgium there should be some photos. Because it was stashed away in some museum the condition should not be all that bad. Since you guys never stop i went looking for the site and it still excists: car nr 101 http://encheres.parisencheres.com/catalogue/90169?npp=150& All the cars came from the museum a lot without any paperwork and sitting since many decades .not one car was running Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Smolinski Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 Why is this in the Cars For Sale forum? Shouldn't it be in General Discussion? It doesn't appear to be for sale, so move it please if it's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Carl Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 It's for sale all right, George. Just make 'em an offer they can't refuse, ($$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$), and it's YOURS ! - Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Smolinski Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 1 hour ago, C Carl said: It's for sale all right, George. Just make 'em an offer they can't refuse, ($$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$), and it's YOURS ! - Carl With all of the information & photos provided, how about $17? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesR Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 On 7/4/2020 at 12:44 PM, George Smolinski said: With all of the information & photos provided, how about $17? Yes, but George, I'll sell you the London Bridge for $19! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robcars Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 Pre or post covid? Prices are dropping.. Ya, selling 1 million buying a fraction. If you can wait just 10 years the price will be much less. Car museums are closing due to lack of attendance and collections are selling all the time. If you ask a baby boomerang 1 million and a nobelium the a fraction. It is worth what someone is willing to pay. I saw a RM auction ca sell 8 years ago for 450 and recently for 300. Some will say the price still went up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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