1934 Pierce-Arrow

[1950panhead]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1934-Pierce-Arrow-836A-836-A/184168572950?hash=item2ae14d6816%3Ag%3A~eQAAOSwWxxeRKJK&LH_ItemCondition=3000|1000|2500

 

Looks like it needs some work.

[1950panhead]

[1950panhead]

[1950panhead]

[alsancle]

Ed can say more than I,  but as the low priced model on the shorter chassis with the smaller motor,  this is probably over priced by 100%. 

 

 

[edinmass]

Its a very nice parts car, for a model car that no one is looking to restore or needing parts. Unfortunate but true. Recently a very similar car that was nicely restored sold in the mid 20’s. This particular Pierce is the “poor little brother” car in the Pierce world. While a great car and it’s all Pierce quality, it’s usually the lowest on the list to own. It even has better lines than most of the larger series cars. 

[John_Mereness]

34 minutes ago, alsancle said:

Ed can say more than I,  but as the low priced model on the shorter chassis with the smaller motor,  this is probably over priced by 100%. 

 

 

I would say correct with more take than give - no pictures spare tire wheels and they better have the metal covers too matched to one headlamp lens short, no gas cap, not running, not driveable, filthy, and ....

[alsancle]

I understand those headlight lenses are made of unobtainium.

[edinmass]

Yup............but it’s only time and money...........lots of time and a huge pile of money. To be fair, for someone looking for an original car, and they have mechanical talent, it could be a fun car to get on the road. The issue is price and cost.............price of what you have to give to own it, and cost to build the engine............if you get the car for free, the numbers don’t work on a engine rebuild and a complete sorting. Sad, but true. 
 

PS- It’s the deluxe model.........actually quite rare when new. The definition of a rare car? One that nobody wanted when it was new. (Still a great car, and I like it, it’s just the dollars that don’t work for ME, maybe someone else.)

Edited February 16, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history)

[58L-Y8]

Ed

So, the 836A is the unwanted step-child of the Pierce-Arrow world?   What is a realistic price for one in this condition?   There is a similar '34 836A in a small museum in the Niagara area.

[Matt Harwood]

I think it's a handsome car with much more appealing lines than anything else with four doors. If the description is accurate regarding the condition of the sheetmetal and engine, I also think it would be easier to rescue than most "projects" that get rolled out. But despite their protestations to the contrary, that car will need a new interior--whatever money they spent was wasted on that low-rent tweed hot-rod upholstery. Ugh.

 

Unfortunately, I'd wager that this car ends up as a rod. Too many guys get bored by the same old stuff and figure that it'll be a lot more interesting if they cut up a Pierce-Arrow instead of a Ford. Then they build the same boring car with the same boring parts and wonder why it's boring to drive why nobody wants it at their shows. 

 

Either way, a shaitload of money may be spent on a car that will ultimately be worth a fraction of the money spent.

[keiser31]

As I have said before and always will....I only buy a car that I am excited about and am willing to keep.

[edinmass]

1 hour ago, 58L-Y8 said:

Ed

So, the 836A is the unwanted step-child of the Pierce-Arrow world?   What is a realistic price for one in this condition?   There is a similar '34 836A in a small museum in the Niagara area.

They are basically a Pierce Arrow cheapened chassis.......but still fantastic, with a Stude body and Pierce front doors........while that description is not totally accurate.........think of it as a 31 Cadillac 8 VS a 31 LaSalle. Similar but different. The Pierce guys basically don’t collect them, and often times a newbie buy’s one and then finds out later what it is. My opinion as to value........a very, very, very nice parts car...........25, nope.........20, nope..........15, nope...........10, nope............get the idea? It’s worth it’s value in parts, minus the headlight lenses, which is half the value of the parts car. If it were ten miles from my house, I MIGHT give 5k, after I look at it, maybe.

 

 

The most important lesson here is understanding what your looking at, and understanding the market. There are many car companies that did similar things in the 30’s.........and it’s easy to get burned. Like a Series 80 & 81 Pierce...........if anyone is ever intrested in a Pierce car, feel free to pm me...........Ed

 

 

Edited February 16, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history)

[58L-Y8]

Ed

I've come to view the 836A as Pierce-Arrow's reprise of the Packard Light Eight 900 episode:  A try at building a lower-priced, entry-level, model to generate sales volume without first learning how to remove genuine cost from the design and manufacturing process.    In Packard's case, it produced a spritely, sporty, quality smaller car which quickly diverted sales from its more profitable lines and drained the working capital further.  For Pierce-Arrow, without hard numbers on the 836A produced, I assume it was the same experience.  

 

You mentioned "with a Stude body and Pierce front doors".    Did the 836A still have input from South Bend even though the two companies had separated?  

[Grimy]

The 836A was offered at about $2195 (4-dr sedan) vs. $2995 for an 840A.  The 836A essentially used the 1933 366 cid engine and had 3" less wheelbase.  Unfortunately, it stole market share from the 840A rather than drawing upmarket sales from mid-priced cars.

[mike6024]

2 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

Unfortunately, I'd wager that this car ends up as a rod. Too many guys get bored by the same old stuff and figure that it'll be a lot more interesting if they cut up a Pierce-Arrow instead of a Ford. Then they build the same boring car with the same boring parts and wonder why it's boring to drive why nobody wants it at their shows. 

 

Being disgusted by this possibility, I looked up what that might look like.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6aQ6aZ1nfk

 

Ford nine-inch rear end, Turbo Hydramatic 400 three-speed automatic, Chevrolet 502 CID V-8 big-block

 

Edited February 16, 2020 by mike6024 (see edit history)

[3macboys]

I think that he's casting a spell to make it run and sell - Can anyone make out what else is in the barn?

 

[Bloo]

I would clean that up, grease everything, change all the fluids, clean out the gas tank, clean out the pan, and pray the engine is ok. If it is, start sorting.... and DRIVE IT.

 

2 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

But despite their protestations to the contrary, that car will need a new interior--whatever money they spent was wasted on that low-rent tweed hot-rod upholstery. Ugh.

 

I view that as a consumable, like tires. I have a similar situation with my Pontiac. The DPO shouldn't have done it, but he did, and I am gonna use it up. The car is a driver and I don't need to worry about it too much. The fact that it is clean and (almost) presentable frees me up to deal with more important (mechanical) issues. Lebaron-Bonney is gone. Maybe it will be easier to get interior stuff when my interior is used up. Maybe not. It probably wont be any worse.

 

 

Edited February 16, 2020 by Bloo (see edit history)

[John_S_in_Penna]

That seller, I believe, used to go by "Classics by Lash,"

"Pristine Classics," and other names.  There were numerous

complaints about that previous name, so they changed it.

 

Buyer beware.

[1950panhead]

Quote

That seller, I believe, used to go by "Classics by Lash,"
"Pristine Classics," and other names.  There were numerous
complaints about that previous name, so they changed it.

 

 

This guy has sold cars for years (possibly decades).

I have no information good or bad.

ps - his ebay feedback is very good.

Edited February 16, 2020 by 1950panhead
ps (see edit history)

[John_Mereness]

22 hours ago, 58L-Y8 said:

Ed

So, the 836A is the unwanted step-child of the Pierce-Arrow world?   What is a realistic price for one in this condition?   There is a similar '34 836A in a small museum in the Niagara area.

Yes, it is an entry level PA via depression, it does have some ungainly aspects, but it does have some interesting deco touches too.

[60FlatTop]

I couldn't have been more shocked if I looked under the hood and saw a Studebaker engine.

[Matt Harwood]

10 minutes ago, 60FlatTop said:

I couldn't have been more shocked if I looked under the hood and saw a Studebaker engine.

 

 

How do you get in the back seat?

[60FlatTop]

14 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

How do you get in the back seat?

 

It's a Victoria coupe. You get in victoriously.

[1912Staver]

21 hours ago, edinmass said:

They are basically a Pierce Arrow cheapened chassis.......but still fantastic, with a Stude body and Pierce front doors........while that description is not totally accurate.........think of it as a 31 Cadillac 8 VS a 31 LaSalle. Similar but different. The Pierce guys basically don’t collect them, and often times a newbie buy’s one and then finds out later what it is. My opinion as to value........a very, very, very nice parts car...........25, nope.........20, nope..........15, nope...........10, nope............get the idea? It’s worth it’s value in parts, minus the headlight lenses, which is half the value of the parts car. If it were ten miles from my house, I MIGHT give 5k, after I look at it, maybe.

 

 

The most important lesson here is understanding what your looking at, and understanding the market. There are many car companies that did similar things in the 30’s.........and it’s easy to get burned. Like a Series 80 & 81 Pierce...........if anyone is ever intrested in a Pierce car, feel free to pm me...........Ed

 

 

 

Hi Ed, If I was in a position to buy a Pierce you would be the first person I would contact ! And hopefully within the next decade I will be in that position.

I always appreciate your take on "the market ". But I must admit I am both frustrated by your observations and at least a bit jealous. I realize you have developed a huge network in the Eastern U.S. vintage car scene. And are in a position to say you wouldn't pay more than say $5000.00 for a car like this Pierce. You can say that because you know that over the next few years other roughly equivalent cars will 

come to your attention in that same price range. 

The experience of many of the rest of us however will be quite different. Quite a few of us might live in a region where there might be 1 or 2 Pierce cars for sale in the next 5 years. And most likely if we are waiting for a $5000.00 restorable Pierce ...well it's just not going to happen.  I know the first $5000.00 is just the tip of the iceberg with cars like this, and yes if we can't afford a decent running $20,000.00 

Pierce then we can't afford any Pierce. And I accept that I can't afford a $20,000 USD anything. 

But many of us live in a world where a later 1930's Dodge or Buick seems to command the sort of price you are able to buy nice driver Pierce's for.  

It's a situation that leads me to believe that any car I can buy; EG. it's already in Canada, won't involve large currency, travel,  transport ,border costs, is at least 100% overpriced. Any car you can buy is at least 50% under priced. Two very different worlds.

 

Greg in Canada

[alsancle]

7 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

But many of us live in a world where a later 1930's Dodge or Buick seems to command the sort of price you are able to buy nice driver Pierce's for. 

 

I'll let Ed answer for himself,  but from my observation there is a HUGE difference between asking and selling prices.   90% of the Dodge and Buick sedans you see for sale never sell,  or sell for a fraction of the publicized asking price.

 

In fact,  go on ebay and look at "all collector cars" for sale.  90% of those cars will not sell,  or will sell for a much less than their asking prices.

 

The gulf between sellers and the real market is very large.   I'm speaking from close personal experience on the wrong side of that equation.

[edinmass]

Greg, the Canada issue is what it is, but I have my own equipment to move things. Fact is there are LOTS of cars available, but 90 percent of them have too many issues for me to deal with....IE .......want to own or able to flip to make a few bucks. Experience tells me there are always five cars a month for me to consider to own.....play with, ect. I often pass on good deals......and hand them off to friends. Randy’s Auburn is one example..........I was in the market for an Auburn, but wanted a V-12.........so I passed and handed it off to a good guy here........and I’m very, very happy he ended up with it. Fact is, I spend 80 hours a week doing pre war cars...........when you put time in like that you come across lots of stuff.........wish I could share some of what I do, but most of the people prefer to be out of the public eye.

[edinmass]

Fact is, the market is much more .....how shall I say.........different than most people realize.  I can buy a car, or five........all in the same deal. It’s often feast or famine. I have a formula on every car deal........I plug it in, and get a yes or no answer accordingly.  Cars to me are no different than a coffee and doughnut........I’m willing to pay a certain amount for the product, no more and no less. Some cars still excite me, and I need to temper my emotions and passions...........and I’m good at controlling them. I have owned a great bunch of junk........beyond imagination.  I’m the luckiest guy in the hobby.....and a I know it. Trick is volume.......look at lots of stuff...........

Edited February 17, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

Ed , I totally get every nuance of what you are saying.  

My local market has 95 % very ordinary cars at what I consider poor value for the money prices. The other 5 % are more interesting cars at extremely poor value for the money.  And quite a few do sell.

The last 2 cars I bought came from the U.S, even with all the extra costs things worked in my favor. Mostly because I just could not find cars like the ones I bought in Canada.

I am always looking as I still want to own a usable vintage car rather than my current project status cars. But I don't even see 5 cars a year that I would take a second glance at let alone 5 cars a month.

I am patient, the right car will come along. Before I buy a vintage car I need to build a new garage as I am out of space. And I need to get my fill of sports car racing before I am too old. Only so many hours in the day.

 

Greg

Edited February 17, 2020 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

Actually of those last 2 cars I bought the first one turned out to be one I should not have bought. But after 3 + years of looking I was beginning to think I was never going to find one. Definitely a compromise 

compared to what I wanted. Then 6 months later out of the blue the second one turned up . Totally right car, reasonable price, reasonable distance. So now I own them both. 

The first one needs to be sold. But it's more of a project than I anticipated so until I can tidy up some of the worst aspects and find a new owner I have them both. It has definite merit, just not to me. Live and learn.

 

Greg