New workshop and storage for the cars

[kfle]

22 minutes ago, RansomEli said:

You had me at "paint booth with air circulation system."

 

Congratulations. We'll expect photos of your progress. 

Will do.  He setup a down draft air filter and circulation system.  There is one in the paint booth and one in the main shop floor if you are going to paint something large or for just pulling out any exhaust fumes.  The picture is of the two air circulation units.  

[kfle]

3 hours ago, auburnseeker said:

I have I believe over 100 in my building and it's years and atleast another 100G (so figure another 50G on top of that with the way my estimates come out) from being complete and that's with me doing the work with the right equipment.  Well ahead to buy built if possible.  My exception Is I wanted it to be on the property not somewhere else and there was nothing available house wise when we were looking in our budget that had a house the wife liked and a shop I could make work and that was looking in a very large area including lots of fixer uppers. 

you have a wonderful building you are putting together!  I have been following your postings and you are doing it right.  

[auburnseeker]

The only problem I found is with right it means slow and expensive.   

With a pay as you go so I don't owe for anything it means even slower. 

Enjoy the new digs. 

[1912Staver]

42 minutes ago, 8E45E said:

Unfortunately, those 'affordable towns' are located way north of here, where the winters are long and its wretchedly cold 6 or 7 months of the year, which is hardly conducive to having fun with vintage cars.  I'd love to live where Greg is, or on Vancouver Island, but to duplicate what I have here in Alberta would be well over $1 million.  Fortunately, I bought a 24'x 35' garage with 11' ceiling that came with a 3-bedroom house nearly 25 years ago, which would be unaffordable today; not to mention, the city may not allow such an oversize structure to be built now.  Turns out, a lot of my neighbors are also vintage car people, which is another factor making it a difficult decision for me to make the (retirement) move to B.C.

 

Craig

 

Spot on Craig. The weather is nicer here than Alberta , as long as you don't mind months of gray, wet weather. But several other factors  work against average income people here. Housing is the truly huge obstacle but almost every other  cost is also more expensive than Alberta.  And wages are generally about the same or even less. Lots of people I know have moved from the Vancouver area to Alberta over the last 20 years. I can't think of anyone who has moved back even though most are at or near retirement.

When my wife and I bought our place in the mid 1990's it was apparent the general rule of thumb was that once you had moved beyond bare bones, entry level house prices " a little more $ bought a lot more house / property " . Sometime since then the situation inverted, a lot more $ buys a little more.  Any of the "nicer" places in my area; itself quite cheap compared to Vancouver proper, are about 2 million and up.  A massive expense beyond my very basic existing house and largish lot.

Greg

[Jim Bollman]

I built my third shop a few years ago all 3 on a much smaller scale than yours, so I will leave most of the advise to others, you may have more than you want already :-)

 

Two things I would suggest take a comfortable chair over to the new place and spend hours sitting and visualizing what you want to do and the best way to lay things out. Make notes and when you have one area figured out move on to another. Much easier to plan when you are sitting drinking a cup of coffee or your favorite beverage. I did most of my sitting in the morning so mine was coffee. Much better to do the build once. Plus you can make measurements to make sure things you visualize will fit. I used this approach in my last two shops and they were much better than the first.

 

My latest shop was empty but already had florescent fixtures but no where enough. I have one big room so I split it between a storage area and a shop area. I replaced all the florescent fixtures on the shop end with a lot of LED lighting, it is like outdoors on that end. I put most of the old fixtures on the storage end. The storage end and the shop end are on different switches so I don' need them all on. I added two LED lights on the storage end hooked to the shop end so I didn't need to turn on all the lights to just grab something from the storage end. I plane to replace the florescent fixtures as they fail with LED but have a couple of spares left over to use first and it may never happen since the lights on that end are not on that often.

[gossp]

4 hours ago, kfle said:

I was just looking at LED replacement tubes this morning.  There are tubes all over the shop for great lighting, though it will add up to run them all of the time.  Internet/wifi is being setup next week and shortly after that the full video alarm system. 

As a guy that puts an amp probe on everything he touches.... don’t instal led tubes that require a ballast. Although they are the easiest way to switch to led lights, they won’t save you any money (as the ballast is still wasting a lot of power by making some heat) and the ballast don’t last as long when running led’s. Also watch deals and sometimes whole new fixtures can be had for what led replacement bulbs cost.

[Robert Street]

8 hours ago, Mark Shaw said:

My Buick Barn is a 40' X 60' metal building only ten blocks from home.  I often have to go home to get that one tool I need to work on something. 

So, I suggest you keep a duplicate set of tools at your new shop; floor jack, air system, hand tools, etc. 

Also, replace the florescent lights  with "high Hat" LED lights to get more light for less $$.

I concur great advice along with Ed’s fire extinguishers comments. With two separate locations not only do I have to have down time going for a tool but on occasion I needed something specific and couldn’t remember which place it was in!! But the younger folks don’t have that problem.

Robert

[Stude Light]

Kevin,

All I can say is WOW! That is really a nice set up.  And being close to the Gilmore Museum is another plus.

 

When I built my shop I sketched out the dimensions in PowerPoint and just played around with a floor plan using scaled sizes of all the equipment I had until I found the layout I liked.  That allowed me to wire it and install plugs/lighting where it belonged. Looks like yours is ready to go for wiring but you can do the same to lay out your equipment/shelving/benches/etc..  I ended up buying LED tube fixtures at Sams Club very reasonably.  My only issue with LEDs is they typically emit one color spectrum.  So if you go with, say, 5000K it's really bright but just seems to be missing something. 2700K is a lot warmer but doesn't seem bright enough.  I have a grid of duplex recepticles in my ceiling wired to the light switches so I installed the 5000K tube fixtures (look like flourescents) in one plug and and then plugged in 2700K bulbs into the other and the mix of colors really helped out.

 

Looks like your buildings are well shaded. My building is the same way so I just end up running a dehumidifier in the summer and the shop stays dry and cool....actually a bit cold.  I was surprised as a dehumidifier makes heat. I guess the 50 degree winter floor keeps it that way in the summer.  It's still cool enough in mid-July that when I pull a car outside all that warm humid air condenses on it.  I have to wait about 5 minutes for things to warm up before all the liquid moisture goes away and I can drive.

 

That's going to be a really nice place once you get it all set up.  You can have your clean "Man Cave" and your less clean workshop.  Your Coles are going to be very happy!

Scott

[mercer09]

 

I'm starting to put together two sets of tools and my shops are only 100 feet apart.  That alone is a pain.  I was thinking i should just get one of those pit boxes and tow it between the two.  Seems everything I need is always in the other garage. 

 

golf cart with boxes built into the back.....................

[Janousek]

I'd add a lot more light fixtures also.  I've tried 6 different led 4' bulbs from different suppliers and settled with over 120 from Eledlights.com.  Ultra hi lumen, 6k color with frosted lens.  Best I've found for working on old cars.  4k or 5k color is yellow.  

I've never received any savings from led conversions because I always add more fixtures for more light.     Strip lights the length of the shop with 6' between rows works pretty well.  4' Would be better.  

 

What type of insulation is in the walls and ceiling?  

 

 

[kfle]

14 hours ago, gossp said:

As a guy that puts an amp probe on everything he touches.... don’t instal led tubes that require a ballast. Although they are the easiest way to switch to led lights, they won’t save you any money (as the ballast is still wasting a lot of power by making some heat) and the ballast don’t last as long when running led’s. Also watch deals and sometimes whole new fixtures can be had for what led replacement bulbs cost.

Great advice from you and others.  I was wondering if the LED tubes that worked with a ballast were good to use and it looks like a no.  I will probably end up getting new fixtures and replace them all out over time.

[kfle]

45 minutes ago, mercer09 said:

 

I'm starting to put together two sets of tools and my shops are only 100 feet apart.  That alone is a pain.  I was thinking i should just get one of those pit boxes and tow it between the two.  Seems everything I need is always in the other garage. 

 

golf cart with boxes built into the back.....................

I only have one garage where i work on cars and this is it, so that should be easier for me.

[kfle]

20 minutes ago, Janousek said:

I'd add a lot more light fixtures also.  I've tried 6 different led 4' bulbs from different suppliers and settled with over 120 from Eledlights.com.  Ultra hi lumen, 6k color with frosted lens.  Best I've found for working on old cars.  4k or 5k color is yellow.  

I've never received any savings from led conversions because I always add more fixtures for more light.     Strip lights the length of the shop with 6' between rows works pretty well.  4' Would be better.  

 

What type of insulation is in the walls and ceiling?  

 

 

I will have to look into those lights.  The shop building has about R20 foam in the walls and about r35 in the ceiling.  The storage garage has R25 batts in the walls and R35 batts in the ceiling.  

[kfle]

1 hour ago, Bills Auto Works said:

 

You do NOT have to replace the fixtures Sir! Just remove the ballast & hook the wires back together, then install the LED bulbs. If you are not electrically savy, most bulb companies have a diagram on their 

websites. No need to waste that extra money unless there is something physically wrong with the fixtures or you want to add more!

 

I also agree with Janousek about the 4-5k being yellow, hence my 6500 bulbs, however since I do custom paint & restorations, I chose the clear lens instead of the frosted for the most brightness. I have been told that I need to wear sunglasses in the building! LOL

 

God bless

Bill

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/nationwide-single-car-transport-hauling-open-or-enclosed.614419/

That should be easy enough, though my latest discovery is that HO (High Output) fixtures were installed.  The fluorescent bulbs are actually only 46 inches as they have the special HO connector on each end.  I tried to find HO LED replacement tubes and the options appear to be very limited.  The closest i found was at 1000bulbs.com and it was only a 4-5k output.  

[CarNucopia]

Congrats on a get space. Count me amongst the envious...

 

I’m in the process of doing a similar project, but on a much smaller scale. Mine is a barn with a garage built off the side and a small cinder-block building. The best money I’ve spent so far is a thermostat for changing the temperature remotely. An hour before I plan to be there, I kick up the heat and arrive to a comfortable temperature. Of course you will need internet service to do this.

[playswithbrass]

Out of curiosity could you please let us know about your epoxy floor coating. How many square feet you are doing, as the floor is not new and fresh what prep work you will have to do, what system do you plan to use and maybe an idea of the cost? I didn’t do my floors when we moved in and am interested in a “retro” finish.

[kfle]

2 hours ago, playswithbrass said:

Out of curiosity could you please let us know about your epoxy floor coating. How many square feet you are doing, as the floor is not new and fresh what prep work you will have to do, what system do you plan to use and maybe an idea of the cost? I didn’t do my floors when we moved in and am interested in a “retro” finish.

There are a lot of variables with this and I am no expert but did a lot of research.  It really depends on what you are going to be doing on your epoxied floor.  For example, are you just parking, showing, and doing an occasional oil change on your car or are you doing restorations, body work, pulling engines, etc.  I have seen some people who have been extremely happy with the Home Depot epoxy like Rustoleum and then i have seen more heavy users be happy with a more expensive commercial epoxy.  I am doing over 1500 sqft in the main shop work area for the first round.  I want a nice looking floor, but the epoxy is not for car display, it is for ease of cleanup and concrete protection.  I am going with Armor Epoxy and then a clear coat on top of that.  Probably will cost between $2000 and $3000 for materials.  

 

Prep is key.  First I hit all of the oil spots with dawn dish soap, let it sit, then scrubbed them good.  It is amazing what Dawn can pull out of the cement.  Then I am doing some sanding in a few areas, then pressure washing the whole floor with a degreaser, and then doing an acid etch.  After all of that I will do a good vacuum.  Also, during the process you should fill any cracks with a 2 part epoxy cement crack sealer.  When the prep is done, I will put down the epoxy and let that cure.  Then I will put down the clear coat with some scuffing or anti slip additive.  

 

A lot of work and i know it wont be perfect when it is done, but it will be better than just the regular cement floors that are there now.

[4Hud]

Don't forget about where to locate the wall decorations.  Carpet flooring optional but it is warmer than concrete and it came with the building, a portable school.

[Janousek]

The color is not only important but so is the output.   The cheaper ones I tried weren't any better than the florescents they replaced.    The ones I listed are around 3000 lumens.  Most were around 2000 and weren't an upgrade other than the utility bill.  I don't care about the bill as I don't like working with trouble lights.  

I have a few that aren't frosted and I didn't care for them.  If your working on your back they have a sharp glare out the corner of my eyes.   Lots of fixtures with good even light is way better than few with really bright bulbs unless you like shadows and such.  

 

I've converted most of my fixtures with new tombstones from amazon.  They are cheap and most of the originals are so cheap they break when trying to switch the pins.  Mine strips were all lithonia but I bought some of the strips that are wired for led.  Those are nice.  You only power one side of the bulbs.  Hot and neutral wires into the end.  A lot easier than screwing around running through the ballast.  

[Modeleh]

20 hours ago, kfle said:

That should be easy enough, though my latest discovery is that HO (High Output) fixtures were installed.  The fluorescent bulbs are actually only 46 inches as they have the special HO connector on each end.  I tried to find HO LED replacement tubes and the options appear to be very limited.  The closest i found was at 1000bulbs.com and it was only a 4-5k output.  

I would replace the HO lamp holders with t8 tombstones rather than replacing the fixtures.  Search amazon for lamp tombstone.  

Beautiful shop BTW, you’re a lucky man to have found it. 

[Jim Bollman]

I decided to put new fixtures on the shop end rather than convert since I needed to add more fixtures anyway. These are what I used, they plug into each other end to end. I put a strip pretty much continues around the outer edge with a double over the work bench, then two strips down the center. I think I may add a couple of more for one shadow area that I didn't anticipate. I don't like the extreme cold light, these seem to be a good compromise for me.

 

Edited January 28, 2020 by Jim Bollman (see edit history)

[Stude Light]

These are what I bought at Sam’s Club. I’m happy with the purchase. 5000 lumens, 5000k color. You can link them together if desired. As you can see, I mixed in the 100 watt equivalent 2700k to get a better quality of color. LEDs aren’t so good for the eyes with all the blue light.

Scott

 

[zepher]

On 1/25/2020 at 7:34 AM, auburnseeker said:

I was pulling my hair out when I sold my old shop at the other end of town for 100G.  Over an Acre of land with 400 foot of road frontage  All cement 40 by 40 building with 20 foot ceiling in one bay and 12 foot in the other and paved parking with awesome road frontage knowing I couldn't build the building let alone buy the property bring in power or drill a well for that kind of money,  but no one else could see the potential I guess. I even had a nice big circular drive with lots of parking.  Tractor trailers used to use it to turn around because it was such an easy in and out. 

 

I need to move out of Calif, here, that same money might get you an empty 50x100' lot.

 

[zepher]

On 1/25/2020 at 12:11 PM, kfle said:

Yes, the guy who built it owned an auto body shop for 40 years and he built this place as his personal man cave for his own cars.  He is now in his 70s so he sold it off.   

 

That is a beautiful shop along with the other buildings.

Enjoy your new place and as others have said, plan carefully.

I'm jealous!

[3macboys]

On 1/25/2020 at 9:02 AM, kfle said:

This will lead to years of fun, learning, and working on cars with my son and friends.   Any tips for someone starting with their first workshop?

Biggest piece of advice - don't let this happen to you!  This is what happens with 3 generations, 6 years, and space.  For those counting there's a baker's dozen vehicles in there in various stages of disrepair.  Actually 5 are finished so that's a good percentage right?

[auburnseeker]

That's not bad.  I can still see the floor.