CBGSTYLES

1931 Cadillac V12 coupe value?

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17 hours ago, alsancle said:

 

Those two are barely over 50.   Actually,  John,  are you 50 yet?

Same age as Ed - 54 (I am a  little older by birthday).  

 

Dad is 80, though was in marginal health at 65, and still is. 

Edited by John_Mereness (see edit history)

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6 hours ago, edinmass said:

I sure wish I used a hammer to install hubcaps back in the old days instead on my hands! 

Yes, you feel it the next day - still putting them on by hand though

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17 hours ago, alsancle said:

 

I think perhaps the difference is that Ed and I are still doing cars actively and doing them ourselves (as well as the ones we have lots of help on) - and actually finishing them and extensively driving them thereafter.   You learn a lot from doing such - some good and some bad (such as realizing limitations).  AJ - you and your dad are doing most work yourselves too I believe ? 

 

By the way, I have had a full spinal fusion with rods too since age 18 and then redone at age 19 (comes with lifting and leverage limitations  matched to as you know CCCA cars coming with some weight/bulk to them)

Edited by John_Mereness (see edit history)
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13 hours ago, C Carl said:

 

It has been my experience that noisy water pumps are not well enough to be let alone.

Why is it that water pumps only leak at night and/or leakage goes to a spot in the frame or ... where you cannot ever see it ?

Edited by John_Mereness (see edit history)

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32 minutes ago, John_Mereness said:

AJ - you and your dad are doing most work yourselves too I believe ?

 

My dad is 94 now and was always hands on with his cars.  He still did the bulk of the work on his speedster (all in the last 10 years) which was mostly a mechanical restoration and with light cosmetics.   I talk a good game and have a nice set of snap on tools that I throw oil on to make them look used,   but typically I have to leave the real work to guys that are good at it.   The problem I'm running in to is the guys I've relied on for 30 years are all retiring and aging out.  

IMG_6306.JPG

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Just now, alsancle said:

 

My dad is 94 now and was always hands on with his cars.  He still did the bulk of the work on his speedster (all in the last 10 years) which was mostly a mechanical restoration and with light cosmetics.   I talk a good game and have a nice set of snap on tools that I throw oil on to make them look used,   but typically I have to leave the real work to guys that are good at it.   The problem I'm running in to is the guys I've relied on for 30 years are all retiring and aging out.  

IMG_6306.JPG

There is more to your skills than what you just modestly said :)   Yes, the problem I'm running in to is the guys I've relied on for 30 years are all retiring and aging out.  And quickly too !!!

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14 hours ago, C Carl said:

 

It has been my experience that noisy water pumps are not well enough to be let alone. Maybe a necessary field repair I had to make before most o' youse in yer 50s were born, learned me up too well. My first long distance road trip in my own car which developed a serious leak as a pump packing failed just short of 1000 miles out. On the spot fix limited to assets on hand. Yarn and chewing gum were the only materials I could find. Continued outbound, and returned home, still dry ! After that "trial run", I figured I could leave well enough alone. And it did not let me down.

                                                                                           All the VERY BEST,   -   Cadillac Carl 

 

You're 100% right, Carl, which is why there's a new water pump sitting on my workbench just waiting for me to have enough time and shop space to tear the front of the car apart to get it out and replaced. I also have my radiator guy on standby and I'll at least have this radiator seam fixed, if not re-cored. The thing runs at 170 degrees at 65 MPH on 95 degree days and sits in traffic at 185. I'm terrified that I'll lose part of what makes this car "bulletproof." But as you say, better to do it now when it's in the shop rather than later by the side of the road. 

 

Take care and be well my friend.

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14 hours ago, C Carl said:

   All the VERY BEST,   -   Cadillac Carl 

I loved the story.  We have all seen photos of your wonderful Cadillac's,  would love to see one of "Dolly".  Merry Christmas to you and all the wonderful posters on this forum.  Now out to the car building  to dust off the 66 GTO Convertible as the 11 y/o triplet grandsons  want to go for a ride this afternoon.  For my northern friends it will be 76 today.

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30 minutes ago, alsancle said:

 

My dad is 94 now and was always hands on with his cars.  He still did the bulk of the work on his speedster (all in the last 10 years) which was mostly a mechanical restoration and with light cosmetics.   I talk a good game and have a nice set of snap on tools that I throw oil on to make them look used,   but typically I have to leave the real work to guys that are good at it.   The problem I'm running in to is the guys I've relied on for 30 years are all retiring and aging out.  

IMG_6306.JPG

 

One, gorgeous car.

 

Two, it's awesome that you and your dad still enjoy the hobby together. I miss playing cars with my father but they kicked his butt so often that he doesn't want anything to do with them anymore, even mine where problems aren't his to solve. I miss that part of our relationship, so cherish it while you have it.

 

Three, become "the guy." They don't know anything you can't learn and they aren't any smarter than you are. They just have experience on their side. You can do it.

 

Four, this comment embodies like 90% of my yearly allotment of sentimentality. Enjoy!

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Water pump making noise and giving you the blues? We had a major big boy toy that had some assxxxe rebuild the pump and remove the safety to prevent the fan from eating the radiator for breakfast. The worst happened with no notice........40k worth of damage overall. Add in the time to fix it.......major league bummer. We had another similar car.......guess what.....same idiot did the pump on that car also.........fortunately I figured out how to tell his work without taking the car apart for inspection. I had to take the front end off to fix his shoddy work. Unfortunately today.......almost NO subcontractors can be trusted............I inspect EVERYTHING done outside my building. Fact is today many shops are living on their past accomplishments and poor work is getting through. I can count on my two hands who I can trust to do things right.

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Dont mean to sidetrack,  but wasn't the last Caddy V12 in 1936 also the last American car to feature updraft carbs? I don't think the Cad V12 engine was ever updated since its introduction. 

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2 hours ago, alsancle said:

The problem I'm running in to is the guys I've relied on for 30 years are all retiring and aging out.  

If you notice in my last few posts I have also said that. Of the four of us that started going to Hershey  in the 70s I am  the last one surviving.  Then I started going with Gord then he passed 2 years ago and now wife now goes with me. The joke around here is do not go to Hershey with Joe as it shortens your life expectancy.

I must say I have a lot of good memory's  with my old friends that I do miss.  

Edited by Joe in Canada (see edit history)
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14 minutes ago, sftamx1 said:

Dont mean to sidetrack,  but wasn't the last Caddy V12 in 1936 also the last American car to feature updraft carbs? I don't think the Cad V12 engine was ever updated since its introduction. 

1937

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17 minutes ago, sftamx1 said:

Dont mean to sidetrack,  but wasn't the last Caddy V12 in 1936 also the last American car to feature updraft carbs? I don't think the Cad V12 engine was ever updated since its introduction. 

Changes in carburetion, fuel delivery, and such as distributor - 1931, I believe is a stand alone year and balance is pretty much same/similar. 

Edited by John_Mereness (see edit history)

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11 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

Three, become "the guy." They don't know anything you can't learn and they aren't any smarter than you are. They just have experience on their side. You can do it.

 

I've been giving this a lot of thought over the last couple of years as I watch guys dropping off.   It is disconcerting.    To some extent I agree with you,  but the experience that a lot of these guys have with machine tools and motor assembly is not something you pick up from reading a book.

 

 

 

 

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When I was young I felt no limitations to my abilities, or the jobs that I was willing to tackle. The passage of time has taught me what I can reasonably expect to accomplish, and what projects I would be better off leaving for someone that I can trust to do it right, the first time.  I treasure the those long ago days, and the lessons that I learned first hand, but I simply don't have the time left to experiment on a project that needs to be done right. 

 

While reading to members' responses the dwindling supply of capable artisans truly  comes into focus. My personal ace in the hole is my mechanic nephew, who is the best mechanic I know. I'm far from smug with regards to the time that he has available for my projects. Modern truck and car technology has made the demand for a good mechanic even tighter. For a number of reasons there is more competition for his services. Simply put a good mechanic can make more then he could working on our old stuff.

 

I think that there is a great opportunity for a good mechanic to fill the void left as the old-timers disappear, but what will it take to reconcile the supply with the demand? 

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48 minutes ago, Buffalowed Bill said:

I think that there is a great opportunity for a good mechanic to fill the void left as the old-timers disappear, but what will it take to reconcile the supply with the demand?

How many of the mechanics of today in the field could rebuild a carb? Also not many of the body men out there probably could not take out a dent then metal finish it ether.  A fellow in our region is a 45 year licensed body man and in the shop he is in he is the only one of 6. He has cut back in his hours and says he does not know what the shop will do when he retires. Another friend sold his diesel mechanical repair shop and the new owners hired 2 mechanics nether one has a licence.  I am waiting for the DOT to walk in but you can not find diesel mechanics to hire anyway. There is a big shortage of automotive trades up here and they are well paid so it is not for the lack of money. The automotive field has taken bad raps in the trades as for one the chemicals in the body trades and being a mechanic is very tough on the body. There is not much manpower left to go into restoring cars because of this PLUS they have to be interested in antique cars. I also understand that Pen State is having a difficult time getting students interested in the restoration field.  

One of our big topics is the grumbling of cost to restore a car and how unrestored cars are taking a hit. When you add this all up it may tell us why there is fewer people getting in the vintage car trade and some trades on the verge of being lost in a way. 

Just some thoughts. 

  Joe 

Edited by Joe in Canada (see edit history)

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On 12/25/2019 at 10:58 AM, edinmass said:

40k worth of damage overall. Add in the time to fix it..

 

A friend says:

Pull over right now, maybe $10,000.

I can make it to the next exit, at least $30,000.

 

And that was 25 years ago.

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3 hours ago, Joe in Canada said:

There is not much manpower left to go into restoring cars because of this PLUS they have to be interested in antique cars. I also understand that Pen State is having a difficult time getting students interested in the restoration field.  

 

In a true capitalist system demand will increase supply. Of course the inverse is also true. Lack of supply will increase cost and thus reduce demand. I'm afraid that we will experiance the latter. The ultimate result is a spiral into a small niche hobby ......................Bob

Edited by Bhigdog (see edit history)

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I think that part of the problem is that most of the younger mechanics are used to working flat rate where a good mechanic can do quality work and beat the clock - sometimes by a lot. That adds a variable amount to their pay which can often be substantial - Lets say at a minimum 50 hours pay for 40 hours worked. Guys that get fed the "good  stuff" at a good shop can be in 6 figures.

 

Working directly on a customer's car 40 hours work is 40 hours pay if they are honest. I had a great mechanic many year ago who charged by what the job was worth in his opinion. On one repair his wife said he was up half the night trying to find a short and he only charged me an hour's labor because that was his opinion of what the repair should have taken. Tough to make a  living that way but he slept well and had more work than he could handle.

 

 

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On 12/26/2019 at 1:38 PM, Joe in Canada said:

How many of the mechanics of today in the field could rebuild a carb? Also not many of the body men out there probably could not take out a dent then metal finish it ether.  A fellow in our region is a 45 year licensed body man and in the shop he is in he is the only one of 6. He has cut back in his hours and says he does not know what the shop will do when he retires. Another friend sold his diesel mechanical repair shop and the new owners hired 2 mechanics nether one has a licence.  I am waiting for the DOT to walk in but you can not find diesel mechanics to hire anyway. There is a big shortage of automotive trades up here and they are well paid so it is not for the lack of money. The automotive field has taken bad raps in the trades as for one the chemicals in the body trades and being a mechanic is very tough on the body. There is not much manpower left to go into restoring cars because of this PLUS they have to be interested in antique cars. I also understand that Pen State is having a difficult time getting students interested in the restoration field.  

One of our big topics is the grumbling of cost to restore a car and how unrestored cars are taking a hit. When you add this all up it may tell us why there is fewer people getting in the vintage car trade and some trades on the verge of being lost in a way. 

Just some thoughts. 

  Joe 

 

In my early 20's { 1980's} I worked as a mechanic , mainly on British sports cars, but also at a shop restoring early Mustangs. Long enough to qualify as a journeyman. At that time the pay was so-so and the benefit package quite thin.  I turned that experience plus a 3 year technical college program into a career as a Marine Engineer. Quite a bit better wages , much better benefit program, quite good pension program. Definitely a big step up from a vehicle mechanic in all regards except ships are manned 24 hours so never ending shift work. 

Working as a mechanic ; similar to most trades, you are working in a physically demanding situation all day long. As an engineer on the running watches the physical side is much less, lots of small jobs , checks on a ton of running equipment  and lots of instrument recording. In my situation the ship was tied up overnight {  350 car equivalent vehicle ferry , 2100 passengers and crew} so that is when all the maintenance and unscheduled repair took place. Once a year the ship was out of service for from 3 to 6 weeks for major scheduled inspection and overhaul. This is when the real work happened. 

 Overall the job of engineer was much better than mechanic. At times very demanding, but substantially better rermuneration.

I am sure a select few Automotive mechanics do quite well but I get the feeling a number of other trades are more consistently high earning. EG. Electrician, Tool and Die maker , Mllwright  possibly even pipefitter.  My nephew is currently apprenticing as a pipefitter, there still seems to be lots of work and quite decent wages. In my experience anything with a more "industrial " slant seems to do better than a Auto mechanic.

Greg in Canada

 

Edited by 1912Staver (see edit history)

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On 12/22/2019 at 4:50 PM, 1912Staver said:

Ed, that is a stunning snapshot of todays market.

 

Greg in Canada


A fantastic V-16 at Arizona, all original, needs nothing. Jump in and tour. Drive it home.......65k.

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15 minutes ago, edinmass said:


A fantastic V-16 at Arizona, all original, needs nothing. Jump in and tour. Drive it home.......65k.

 

Hi Ed. Do you have any pictures of that Cad ?  Please post if so.    -   Thanks,   CC

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No, I don’t, but AJ and a few other regulars here are out there this weekend. The great stuff is selling for all the money, the very good stuff is somewhere between soft and blah, and the run of the mill interesting and fun stuff is flat on its face. And it seems to be that way across the board. There are occasional machines that break the patterns, but the ones that do probably won’t hold up in the long run.

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