Is it hard to find parts for a 1978 Grand Prix?

[KevinVal]

A friend of mine told me that it would be hard finding parts if they were needed because Pontiac doesn't exist anymore. Is this true? I mean, aren't universal parts available? (for example: Universal Air Conditioning Systems | Universal Custom AC )

 

He also said the motors in late '70s Pontiacs were no good. How is the 301?

Edited July 6, 2019 by Kevin Valos (see edit history)

[TerryB]

Lots of parts vendors for Firebird in that year, depends what parts you need and if you are looking to restore versus just keep it running. As always the internet can be your friend along with Pontiac clubs in parts search.

[Jubilee]

As mentioned, depends on what parts you’re looking for. Car is a GM A body platform so I’m guessing lots of interchangeability. Monte Carlo, Century, and ect.

[joe_padavano]

9 hours ago, Kevin Valos said:

A friend of mine told me that it would be hard finding parts if they were needed because Pontiac doesn't exist anymore. Is this true? I mean, aren't universal parts available? (for example: Universal Air Conditioning Systems | Universal Custom AC )

 

He also said the motors in late '70s Pontiacs were no good. How is the 301?

 

Your friend is apparently not an expert... 🙄

 

The 1978-1988 GM midsize cars (they were called the A-body platform through the 1981 model year, then the G-body after that due to the release of the FWD A-body cars) are popular to collect and restore. Most mechanical parts are readily available, and this is the period when GM was heavily into badge-engineering, so the Cutlass, Grand Prix, Malibu, Monte Carlo, and Regal were all essentially identical under the sheet metal. There are some minor differences on the 1978 cars vs. the 79-88 cars (like smaller front wheel bearings that were upgraded the next year). Sheet metal and trim parts might be a little more difficult to get, but the number of reproduction parts available for these cars is increasing, as folks who have been priced out of the 64-72 cars from the musclecar era are building these 78-88 cars instead.

 

The Pontiac 301 was unfortunately not one of their better engines. It is a lightweight design with a lower deck height than most Pontiac motors, and was designed for fuel economy at the expense of just about everything else. For a daily driver, it's fine. The good news is that any 1964-up Pontiac V8 bolts in place of the 301. With appropriate motor mount and trans changes, pretty much any GM V8 can be bolted into these cars.

[John_S_in_Penna]

14 hours ago, Kevin Valos said:

A friend of mine told me that it would be hard finding parts if they were needed because Pontiac doesn't exist anymore.

 

Don't let anything keep you from getting a 1978

Pontiac Grand Prix if it appeals to you.  You should

have no trouble getting parts.

 

Many old-car models don't have much support from

the manufacturer, but there are loads of parts available

from other sources.  That hasn't stopped old-car fans,

whether they have a 1929 Ford Model A, a 1947 Packard,

a 1964 Studebaker, or innumerable others.  And your friend

doesn't realize that Pontiacs are strongly supported by the

Pontiac Oakland Club International (POCI).

 

If I were you, I would get the best example you can find,

not a worn-out one that you plan to restore, since even

really nice ones should be of modest cost.

Your car would be one of the newer collectibles at shows,

and you may enjoy having it for many decades.

So feel free to enter the hobby! 

Edited July 6, 2019 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[padgett]

Depends, the base engine was the odd-fire 3.8 V6 which is very common so that is the first question (think the SJ got a 150hp 301 which was not that bad but not common either.)

78 was the first year for the downsized GP

 

People who do not like Pontiac engines usually treat then like small block chevvies. Jim Butler will tell you different.

 

Trouble is many were dumped on the "Cash for Clunkers" deal but parts do exist.

 

I considered the Phoenix (Nova platform - first US car with a rectangular headlight) before my 78 Sunbird V8 but was too big for what I wanted.

[Pfeil]

12 hours ago, Kevin Valos said:

A friend of mine told me that it would be hard finding parts if they were needed because Pontiac doesn't exist anymore. Is this true? I mean, aren't universal parts available? (for example: Universal Air Conditioning Systems | Universal Custom AC )

 

He also said the motors in late '70s Pontiacs were no good. How is the 301?

First, there are two V-8 engines for 1978 GP. A 350 Chevy for California and the 301 for 49 state cars. The 265/301 are short deck versions of the traditional Pontiac V-8, however there are differences in block bracing / re-coring and deck height as 301 is a short deck., 301 cylinder heads have Siamese intake port to head runners and the valves are small diameter.  , crankshaft is missing two counterweights and is EXTERNALLY balanced instead of traditional Pontiac's which are INTERNALLY balanced, rods are 6.05 vs. traditional Pontiac at 6.625.

 The 301 engine's mission was to be a light weight low emission economy engine meeting emissions with enough torque to move a 2 ton Pontiac ( some Oldsmobile, some Buick) Bonneville/Catalina at HWY speeds. The typical Pontiac V-8 weighs 675 lbs, the 301 weighs just 452 lbs. the weight of the bare block is 123 lbs-and it's cast iron. The crank as noted had center counterweights removed which makes the crank 22lbs lighter than the Pontiac 326, 336, 350, 389, 400 crank which are all the same. However the 301 still uses 3" mains like the afore engines. As far as Pontiac was concerned the 301 met it's goals.

 

 Motor Mounts are probably the same as traditional Pontiac engines and the variances in the traditional mounting and the aftermarket adapters are out there if you want to do a engine swap to a traditional tall deck Pontiac, however emission wise that kind of swap on a car with exhaust controls would be illegal according to the EPA- and some states. There are states that are still emission testing. Two off the top of my head are California back to 1975, and can bring back into the smog check vehicles to 1966, and Arizona which emission checks back to 1967. This also means that everything that the car came with like evap. emission, engine controls and catalytic converts must be on the car and operable. If not there a car wouldn't even be tested as it would not pass the visual part of the inspection.  

 

Edited July 6, 2019 by Pfeil (see edit history)

[TerryB]

Rear filler panel between bumper and body crack and fail over time.  Seems like a good way to get an older car without breaking the bank.  Hemmings Classic Car magazine has been featuring a lot of this generation of automobiles in its publication which I take as a sign of growing interest in this segment of the hobby.

[John348]

The plastic interior components for many of the 70's GM cars can be very difficult to find, make sure that those parts are in good condition and not cracked. The parts can always be dyed to get the original color back 

[Rusty_OToole]

If you have one in good shape you can buy everything you need to keep it running from your local auto parts store or online. Things like tires, fan belts, wipers, rad hoses, spark plugs, brakes, steering parts etc are easily available.

 

It is things like chrome trim and upholstery that are hard to get. Plastic interior parts no longer available. If a fender gets banged up you can usually find a used one with a little looking.

 

So, are parts hard to find? Yes and no. If you take care of it and don't wreck it, parts are easy to find. If it gets banged up or trim is missing, not so easy. But, collectors keep much older and rarer cars on the road so it can be done.

[GARY F]

Your friend is out of touch.  Need body parts, call Steve Barrack, A lot of mechanical parts can be bought at NAPA. Get a book from AMES performance for a lot of other parts.  I have a 63 GP I restored and no problem with parts. Ebay for parts.

[joe_padavano]

With the increasing popularity of the 1978-88 cars, there is increased availability of repro trim parts.

 

https://gbodyparts.com/  is one such vendor.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

I am now sure I am getting old, was so excited to get my 79, 301 v8 Pontiac GP in the early 80s.  Triple black.  It ran great, as I recall.  Maybe one 8 for every ten 6 cylinder cars I think.

[padgett]

Haven't heard from Kevin for a while, wonder what happened ?

[Pfeil]

4 hours ago, John348 said:

The plastic interior components for many of the 70's GM cars can be very difficult to find, make sure that those parts are in good condition and not cracked. The parts can always be dyed to get the original color back 

I think most will agree that interior trim parts like A, B, C pillars rear parcel shelves and front kick panels are really pieces that once installed we have very little to do with them. Aside of the rear deck parcel shelf these are plastic, and when these pieces start to off gas and the polymers break down and start to flake and chalk. I have found that these pieces which see little interaction with us can be saved by taking them off before they get brittle or disintegrate and go to the local paint store and buy latex primer and latex semi gloss paint. Have your paint color matched to the pieces and add a little colored paint to the primer with  a little floetrol and spray the parts. then after drying lay down just the color and these parts will look like new and stop the off gassing of the plastic.

I've got a 76 Olds that was having this problem. In the picture you can only see the "B" pillars, but when  those and the "A" and "C" pillars were done you couldn't tell them from factory fresh. I should know I'm also the original owner.

    

[KevinVal]

3 hours ago, padgett said:

Haven't heard from Kevin for a while, wonder what happened ?

 

I'm here, taking in all of these helpful answers. Thank god I didn't heed my friend's advice. He was also going on about how his '79 Oldsmobile Cutlass was a bad car.

 

 

[KevinVal]

9 hours ago, TerryB said:

Rear filler panel between bumper and body crack and fail over time.

 

That's exactly what's wrong with the car I'm inquiring about. Well that and the driver's seat has a tear in it.

[joe_padavano]

8 hours ago, KevinVal said:

 

That's exactly what's wrong with the car I'm inquiring about. Well that and the driver's seat has a tear in it.

 

Reproductions of the bumper filler panels are available.

[TerryB]

13 hours ago, KevinVal said:

 

That's exactly what's wrong with the car I'm inquiring about. Well that and the driver's seat has a tear in it.

Black car with tan interior and slightly faded roof?  Saw it on Hemmings if the same one.   Looks good overall.

Edited July 7, 2019 by TerryB (see edit history)

[John_S_in_Penna]

19 hours ago, Pfeil said:

... interior trim parts... are plastic, and when these pieces start to off-gas and the polymers break down [the pieces] start to flake and chalk.    

 

I believe that the company "Just Dashes" can now

restore those.  I had them do some other work, but

their written material says they are able to restore

those brittle plastic pieces.

 

(Otherwise, they can restore cracked padded dashboards

and door panels.)

 

Ah, it's great to see the hobby advance into new needed services!

Edited July 7, 2019 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[KevinVal]

9 hours ago, TerryB said:

Black car with tan interior and slightly faded roof?  Saw it on Hemmings if the same one.   Looks good overall.

 

Yep...same one. You think it's a good deal? How much do you think repairs would cost for bumper and A/C?

[TerryB]

1 hour ago, KevinVal said:

 

Yep...same one. You think it's a good deal? How much do you think repairs would cost for bumper and A/C?

Sorry, can’t help there as I had that era car when they were new.  AC used to be pricey in the days of R-12  but the new replacement gases cost less.  My newest old car was a 1964 model and being cheap I avoided AC cars.  As for price, it’s a little high I think but not crazy.  Best to compare against others like it on Hemmings.

[KevinVal]

I've never driven a car with no AC...does anyone think it will overheat if I drive it 35 miles in 80-90F weather? I want to buy this car but worry about the drive home.

[Bloo]

Broken AC wont make the car overheat, quite the opposite.

 

In the 70s it was pretty common for owners of cars with AC to have to shut it off on the hottest days, at least on long uphill pulls, to keep the car from boiling over. Everybody wants AC now. Back then, not so much.

[KevinVal]

So I emailed the owner of the car and he told me it has 99,000 miles on it...the 301ci V8 engine. Anyone think it will last much longer?

[TerryB]

4 hours ago, KevinVal said:

So I emailed the owner of the car and he told me it has 99,000 miles on it...the 301ci V8 engine. Anyone think it will last much longer?

If it was properly maintained it should have more life left in it, how much more is unknown as it is in most used cars for sale.  I did not buy a car with AC until 1983 hoping by then the AC components would be reliable.  It took a bit of reflection on life to see this is a 40 yr old car, it doesn’t seem that long ago I was looking at new cars like this.  For what it’s worth I wound up buying a new 1977 Chevy Nova with the Rally Sport package, no AC!

[John348]

6 hours ago, KevinVal said:

I've never driven a car with no AC...does anyone think it will overheat if I drive it 35 miles in 80-90F weather? I want to buy this car but worry about the drive home.

 You and the passengers might overheat, 40 years ago the congestion and traffic was not as bad as it is today, so the vehicle was moving getting airflow inside the vehicle, now...... not so much 

[joe_padavano]

These cars were designed to operate with A/C on MAX while driving in the desert. GM has a Desert Proving Grounds in Mesa, AZ for exactly this purpose. The car will NOT overheat if properly maintained and if the radiator and cooling jacket are not plugged with four decades of rust and crud.

[Pfeil]

8 hours ago, KevinVal said:

So I emailed the owner of the car and he told me it has 99,000 miles on it...the 301ci V8 engine. Anyone think it will last much longer?

Email the owner again and ask if the timing chain/sprocket  has been changed. If it has what kind, if it was a factory replacement with a nylon coated sprocket or if it was never changed, the first thing I would do if I bought it would be to change it with a double roller chain and metal sprocket. And if while changing the sprocket I found any broken pieces of nylon I would take the oil pan down to make sure those pieces aren't stuck in the oil pump or pick up screen or tube. 

Edited July 8, 2019 by Pfeil (see edit history)

[JamesR]

Quote

Is it hard to find parts for a 1978 Grand Prix?

 

Much harder than a 2012 Honda. Not nearly as hard as 1948 Studebaker.

[Victor C]

I have a 78 grand prix. Whole car. Needs restoring 

[Victor C]

It has high bucket seats,console shift,motor and trans. 

[padgett]

Not sure if repops are available but in '78 almost all Pontiacs had the same armrests on the doors that broke. 70's were a bad time for interior plasics parts that faded, chipped, and cracked.

 

Engines and drivetrains weren't bad, just mostly emissions choked and had ded cams and 2bbl carbs (ask Jon about M2MEs). Agree at 100k prolly needs a timing chain.

 

Suspect is a 301-2bbl, THM 200 and about a 2.59 rear gear. T-Tops and snowflakes were available but not common. Is it a base, LJ, or SJ ?

[28 Chrysler]

On 7/8/2019 at 1:25 AM, KevinVal said:

So I emailed the owner of the car and he told me it has 99,000 miles on it...the 301ci V8 engine. Anyone think it will last much longer?

My wife had a 1977 GP with the 301 in it. It was a bigger car and we sold it with just over 290,000 miles on it. I had to change the oil pump and that was about it besides the basic stuff.

[Pfeil]

On 7/6/2019 at 7:32 AM, joe_padavano said:

 

Your friend is apparently not an expert... 🙄

 

The 1978-1988 GM midsize cars (they were called the A-body platform through the 1981 model year, then the G-body after that due to the release of the FWD A-body cars) are popular to collect and restore. Most mechanical parts are readily available, and this is the period when GM was heavily into badge-engineering, so the Cutlass, Grand Prix, Malibu, Monte Carlo, and Regal were all essentially identical under the sheet metal. There are some minor differences on the 1978 cars vs. the 79-88 cars (like smaller front wheel bearings that were upgraded the next year). Sheet metal and trim parts might be a little more difficult to get, but the number of reproduction parts available for these cars is increasing, as folks who have been priced out of the 64-72 cars from the musclecar era are building these 78-88 cars instead.

 

The Pontiac 301 was unfortunately not one of their better engines. It is a lightweight design with a lower deck height than most Pontiac motors, and was designed for fuel economy at the expense of just about everything else. For a daily driver, it's fine. The good news is that any 1964-up Pontiac V8 bolts in place of the 301. With appropriate motor mount and trans changes, pretty much any GM V8 can be bolted into these cars.

 

The 301 is a good low performance engine that can make very good mileage as long as you drive your car in a reasonable responsible way. For what they were designed for they are a good engine. Their weakness is the crankshaft, and the Siamese intake ports limit the head from breathing, but then again this engine was not designed for performance.  I do know guys in the PONTIAC clubs that have made over 500hp. from this engine using Pontiac 301 Trans Am Turbo charged blocks which have internal beefing.

The best applications for replacement real Pontiac engines would be the 350- 400- 455 from 1970 to 1976 because they have all the things you need like 5 motor mount holes instead of the 1959-1969 blocks, also the 1964 389 and 421 blocks of the "B" body cars still use a trans mounted starter so you would have to look out for that. The 1964 "A" body 326 and 389 do have block mounted starters.   

[cheezestaak2000]

On 7/8/2019 at 9:03 AM, TerryB said:

If it was properly maintained it should have more life left in it, how much more is unknown as it is in most used cars for sale.  I did not buy a car with AC until 1983 hoping by then the AC components would be reliable.  It took a bit of reflection on life to see this is a 40 yr old car, it doesn’t seem that long ago I was looking at new cars like this.  For what it’s worth I wound up buying a new 1977 Chevy Nova with the Rally Sport package, no AC!

think about replacing timing gears and chain

 

[padgett]

I have never bought a new car without AC (except the '78 Sunbird, was NA, wanted the SBC and 4-speed more. Did add aftermarket kit with Sanden compressor that worked well) and all of the current herd have and work. Judge is only one left with R-12.