keiser31 Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 (edited) Helped out my 80+ year old friend today. He needed to remove a flat tire from one of his all original CarterCars so he could have a guy fix it....easy, peasy. He was afraid he would have to remove the whole wheel with hub and all. I educated him. Edited April 22, 2019 by keiser31 (see edit history) 9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Gregory Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Thanks John for all the information and especially the pictures you share with everyone here on the AACA . 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted April 22, 2019 Author Share Posted April 22, 2019 His other CarterCar.... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer09 Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Those are great looking cars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 They were known for their unique friction drive transmission. Easy to drive and infinitely variable speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer09 Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 CVT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 One of GM's first casualties. http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?46653-Orphan-of-the-Day-12-04-1910-Cartercar Got the axe in 1915. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digger914 Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Love the non skid tires and the way they write their name on the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted April 22, 2019 Author Share Posted April 22, 2019 3 hours ago, Rusty_OToole said: They were known for their unique friction drive transmission. Easy to drive and infinitely variable speed. The "transmission".... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lahti35 Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Very cool! I've seen that set-up in vintage saw mills but never on a car! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwells Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Others used this system for a while. Metz being one. Supposedly worked best on lighter cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldcarfudd Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Also Petrel, I believe, and Sears highwheelers. And my self-propelled modern snowblower! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted April 22, 2019 Author Share Posted April 22, 2019 Here it is in action.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 5 hours ago, gwells said: Others used this system for a while. Metz being one. Supposedly worked best on lighter cars. I have also seen it in operation in an Orient Buckboard. Craig 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted April 22, 2019 Author Share Posted April 22, 2019 5 minutes ago, Dave Fields said: Back when Jimmy Carter ran against Gerald Ford on of the AACA regions had a race between a Carter and a Ford. A picture was published in The Antique Automobile the AACA magazine. Who won? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 William Durant said he bought the Cartercar company because of their friction drive, not knowing that the Ford Model T was going to put all other low priced cars out of business. He also bought the Haney Lamp Company for a big price because they held patents on acetylene headlights, right before the electric light put them out of business. It was decisions like that, that led to him losing control of General Motors to the bankers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwells Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 Rusty, I believe the lamp company name is correctly spelled Heany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MochetVelo Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 I wonder how many cars used the friction-drive system. Cartercar started in 1905, but John W. Lambert patented the system Carter used in 1904. A few dozen makers followed, including Waltham, Metz, Sears, Lambert, etc. It would be interesting to search the "Standard Catalog" to see. Phil 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J&J Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 The friction drive patents are interesting. In another example of how government works, the Patent Office issued a friction drive transmission patent to both Carter and Lambert on the same day in 1904: https://patents.google.com/patent/US761384A/en https://patents.google.com/patent/US761146A/en Not surprisingly, lawsuits and counter suits ensued between Cartercar and Lambert. The Lambert patent primarily focused on the friction disc and wheel surfaces, in particular the use of aluminum on the friction disc, while the Carter patent focused more on the complete drive setup. My suspicion is that Lambert got the best of the aluminum argument because Cartercar switched to another alloy even though they made claims of using aluminum first. You can see the alloy disc in a picture above. I have found about 45 makes that used a friction drive transmission but I'm sure there are more to be found... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted April 26, 2019 Author Share Posted April 26, 2019 Pretty certain this is the tool being used to work on the CarterCar tire.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 On 4/22/2019 at 8:41 AM, keiser31 said: The "transmission".... Very similar to the Orient Buckboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bamford Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 31 minutes ago, 8E45E said: Very similar to the Orient Buckboard. Interesting photo, 8E45E... I think that may be my Orient Buckboard. Not that I mind, but I'm curious where you might have come across this pic? If it's my car I don't believe that's one of my photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 (edited) If you're from Edmonton, I have no doubt in my mind its your car. You may recall I took a few photos of it at Leduc's West Ag Society last summer. Another Orient Buckboard in the Gilmore Museum in Michigan. Craig Edited April 27, 2019 by 8E45E (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer09 Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 Nice Cartercar listed on ebay at the moment- not mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted April 28, 2019 Author Share Posted April 28, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, mercer09 said: Nice Cartercar listed on ebay at the moment- not mine. That color on these cars was popular, I guess....https://www.ebay.com/itm/1912-Cartercar-Model-R-Roadster/233210892602?hash=item364c73d13a:g:4PEAAOSw4BBcxOpH Edited April 28, 2019 by keiser31 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNGizmo Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 Very interesting. One of the greatest things about antique cars is finding the outside the box thinking that they actually used. Great to see the friction drive used outside of Sapper Comet riding mowers and people thought CVT was "new" technology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNGizmo Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 How is the drive tire moved or ratio adjusted? how ever you wan to say it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNGizmo Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 16 minutes ago, TNGizmo said: How is the drive tire moved or ratio adjusted? how ever you wan to say it. Found it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert_25-25 Posted May 1, 2021 Share Posted May 1, 2021 Hi I am helping a widow with her 1907 Cartercar. This car is a 2 cylinder with a box oiler injection fed on top of the engine. Wondering if this should have motor oil or 600 W steam oil?? Any help or contacts would be appreciated. Thank you, Hugh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryankazmer Posted May 1, 2021 Share Posted May 1, 2021 On 4/23/2019 at 10:12 PM, J&J said: The friction drive patents are interesting. In another example of how government works, the Patent Office issued a friction drive transmission patent to both Carter and Lambert on the same day in 1904: https://patents.google.com/patent/US761384A/en https://patents.google.com/patent/US761146A/en Not surprisingly, lawsuits and counter suits ensued between Cartercar and Lambert. The Lambert patent primarily focused on the friction disc and wheel surfaces, in particular the use of aluminum on the friction disc, while the Carter patent focused more on the complete drive setup. My suspicion is that Lambert got the best of the aluminum argument because Cartercar switched to another alloy even though they made claims of using aluminum first. You can see the alloy disc in a picture above. I have found about 45 makes that used a friction drive transmission but I'm sure there are more to be found... not an inherent conflict of patents. Cartercar could have a patent on the system and Lambert on the improvement of an aluminum disc. The way it was explained to me, one person can have a patent on a 4 legged device to sit on called chair, while another could have a patent on a comfort improvement called back, another on an improvement called arms. the latter two are subsidiary to the primary patent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gossjh Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 Hugh, I replied in an email. You are welcome to contact me for any questions as this is one of my old cars. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J&J Posted May 2, 2021 Share Posted May 2, 2021 Hi Hugh, I replied to the email you sent to cartercar.org also. It looks like the oil in the reservoir is low and should be added before it is used, so it is good that you noticed it. Here is an excerpt from the Model K Cartercar manual which also had the same motor. It says "low in weight" and "high in viscosity"... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 On 5/2/2021 at 6:45 AM, J&J said: Hi Hugh, I replied to the email you sent to cartercar.org also. It looks like the oil in the reservoir is low and should be added before it is used, so it is good that you noticed it. Here is an excerpt from the Model K Cartercar manual which also had the same motor. It says "low in weight" and "high in viscosity"... It wouldn't hurt to drain what is left of it first, via that square-head drain plug at the base of the reservoir, and then refill with fresh oil. Similar self-contained lubricators are still used on plunger pumps where the fluid doesn't have any lubricating properties. Craig 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert_25-25 Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 Thank you for the responses. The main reason for the question is I am also working on a 1904 Autocar and cast into the Autocar oil reservoir is "600W steam oil". I appreciate the operating instruction and notes as the Cartercar is different and it uses motor oil. So the car show went well and the Cartercar won first in it's class. Starting the car drew a large crowd and applause when it started. Hugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
human-potato_hybrid Posted June 4, 2023 Share Posted June 4, 2023 Speaking of Patents, some guy basically reinvented the Skinner Oil Rectifier about a century after the original and is selling them. The working principles are essentially identical. https://www.belleflex.com/products/oil-dehydration/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted June 4, 2023 Share Posted June 4, 2023 23 minutes ago, human-potato_hybrid said: Speaking of Patents, some guy basically reinvented the Skinner Oil Rectifier about a century after the original and is selling them. The working principles are essentially identical. https://www.belleflex.com/products/oil-dehydration/ Isn't that a bit different than the Skinner Oil Rectifier which was designed to remove oil from the exhaust? At least the one I'm familiar with installed on Stearns Knight and Packard. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
human-potato_hybrid Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 The Rectifier was to purify the oil for decreased oil changes I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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