Mike Macartney Posted March 20, 2019 Author Share Posted March 20, 2019 Hello Al, As yet I have never driven a car with this type of transmission, only vintage motorcycles, with which I have no problems with gear changing, as long as you take your time. Horse Power is rated at 8hp, the cc, I think is 998cc. Your welcome to a drive when it's finished, but it's a long way to come! I managed to temporally fit the top hoops with string, thick rubber bands and clamps, then drape some material over to see what the shape looked like. I got jane to sit inside, on a couple of cushion's, to check that there was enough head room, and it seemed OK. I made a mistake with measuring the maximum length of the legs of the hoops. I thought the longest leg would be on the centre hoop. It appears now that the longest leg is on the rear hoop. This one could have been a couple of inches longer, I think. The problem is that if I decide to try and make a hoop with longer legs we will have to saw up another plank to make another spline and modify the jig by fitting it with longer bending arms each side. Jane and I agreed that it seems to look OK as it is. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 Nice work up on the top! And if your wife can fit and is happy, you can be also. Under your cloth, the bows seem to be in the very conventional locations. We are going to be away for a couple of days and I am hopeful that I will be able to pick up the first of my 8 quart pressure cookers so I can get "Cooking" on my top bows. With your inspiration, I can think of quite a few uses for the steam bending set-up. Thanks again for sharing your learning here. Al 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 On 3/20/2019 at 1:02 PM, Mike Macartney said: A good looking top profile - if everyone fits in it I would say start perfecting all the little details needed to get a good looking top upholstered onto the car. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 Hello Mike, I was able to find and purchase a couple of 6 quart pressure cookers that look just like your units. Next, I will install the hose barb fittings into the lids and disable the relief valves, (my system will not be allowed to build pressure but only make steam to be delivered to the steam chambers and atmosphere for the bending wood). I have a couple of steel tubes that I intend to modify very similar to what you have done on your system. One step at a time.... Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Macartney Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 Hello Al, Pleased to hear that you have found a couple of pressure cookers. It is a shame you don't live 'just round the corner' as you could have borrowed my steam bending equipment! Today, Robert is coming down to shape the ends of bows. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Hello Mike, I have heard that the world is getting smaller. hmmmmm, it is still a big "drink of water" and a bunch of land travel to get from my place to yours! (certainly not just around the corner! Do you have an an appointment to get the covering put on your hood? What will the seat look like? Leather tufted or diamond pleat or pulled straight? Al 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Macartney Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 (edited) Hello Al, Below is the only photo that I found, with the 'bumf'' that came with the car, when I bought it. Unfortunately, the original leather seat material had been thrown away by the deceased relatives before they sold the car. Over the years I have learnt never to throw anything away until you have finished the restoration. Luckily, by contacting other owners, of Humberette's, I have managed to find some more photos of the leather seat squab and interior details. The top (hood) and upholstery work is booked in with the coachtrimmer for the end of April. I booked the car in for the work when I first got the car last June. That was the soonest date he had available at the time. I believe he does a good job but is relatively expensive. As they say it's only money, and you can't take it with you. Although saying that, I am working on a design for a coffin with panniers! This is his web site http://www.moorestrim.com/ Edited March 26, 2019 by Mike Macartney missed out words (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Macartney Posted March 26, 2019 Author Share Posted March 26, 2019 (edited) After messing about with clamps, screws and bits of string, . . . . . . . . Jane and I, finally got the bows into the correct positions. Now for the ends to shape. Robert starting to shape the ends with a spoke shave so that the top bows will sit flush against each other when the top is down. With the middle bow it was easier to shave the excess wood off with the bow fixed to the body. Starting to get there! Robert thinks "Just a little bit more off?" Edited March 26, 2019 by Mike Macartney One sentance was in twice. (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Macartney Posted March 26, 2019 Author Share Posted March 26, 2019 A work of warning for prospective steam benders! To stop the steam damaging the MDF board jig and the metal parts of the bending mechanism I sprayed then in black with a rattle can of acrylic paint. A MISTAKE! In some places the residual steam/heat in the wood must have 'melted' the paint and transferred the colour to the top bow. The photo is after I have sanded the bow. I originally thought that this discolouration would have sanded out quite easily, not so. Luckily most the discolouration is in areas that will be covered with top material. Clamped the bow to the fixing jig and with a line drawn down the centre, I started to shape the ends of the bows. Because one of the fixing screws is near the end, we have decided not to taper the ends too aggressively, so as to leave enough wood for strength. To start the curves I used this sander with 80 grit pads and finished off with a palm sander with 120 grit until that cheap sander packed up!. They seem to be sanding down reasonably well. Not being used to sanding wood I found the work much easier and quicker than sanding paint and body filler! This morning I managed to sand one and half bows before I had had enough for the day. By lunch time I felt ready for bed! After lunch I felt better and went and cleared up before writing these posts. Hopefully, tomorrow I can finish all three bows and then varnish them. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArticiferTom Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 (edited) Try cleaning the black with some ammonia or Chorox . Maybe mold not paint . Like the thread your doing here . Keep it up . Edited March 27, 2019 by ArticiferTom Added Chorine Bleach (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hursst Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 You are a true craftsman. Great work, enjoy seeing all the attention to detail and the great progress you and others are making on their cars. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 Hello Mike, I live in an old (1899) Victorian home, with a huge amount of interior wood trim. We have spent endless hours refurbishing the interior wood. Sadly, it is my experience that some stains are just not going to go away. I hope your circumstance is different and that you can mitigate the dark spots. Tell us if something works and I will sure make a note for when I steam bend my wood. The last steam bent wood I purchased was the two handles for my antique and still used single wheel garden furrower and cultivator. I need another set of handles, but I intend to build my own next time. Keep up the good work! Al 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 I'd just leave the spots there and forget about it... if anything it adds verisimilitude (one of my favorite words - it means "looks right") or in this case "looks old." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Macartney Posted March 27, 2019 Author Share Posted March 27, 2019 The dark staining is definitely not mould, it has only occurred where the steamed wood has been clamped tight when bending. I will follow Joe's advice and forget about it. In one of my favourite words, it adds 'patina,' to the restoration! Or, as I have heard it said "A blind man would be pleased to see it!" I am off out now to attack the rest of the top bows with the sander. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Macartney Posted March 27, 2019 Author Share Posted March 27, 2019 With sanding with 80 grit most of the 'steaming' marks you can see in the photo below disappeared. The following photo is after sanding Two of the top bows ready to sand by hand with something a bit finer. I still do find it 'mind boggling' that we have gone from this huge sweet chestnut tree to the bows in the above photo. The rest of the tree has been keeping us all warm, burning in our wood burning stoves, this winter and there is still lots more to cut up. . . . and this is the thinner end of the tree! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike "Hubbie" Stearns Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 Mike, as far as sanding, the proper way is to go from 80 to 120,180,220, and so on. As far as when to stop, I usually stop about 400 and even 600 when needed. As you get finer, all you are doing is removing the previous scratched left behind. The dinner you get, stain doesn't soak in as well, but clear coat does. Hope this helps. Mike 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 That is one big piece of tree you are dealing with! Have you counted rings to see how old it is? Al 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Coyote Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 I bet you could make some really beautiful furniture with that wood. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Macartney Posted March 29, 2019 Author Share Posted March 29, 2019 Roger, who owned the planking saw, that we used on the big sweet chestnut tree has taken some of the wood to make some furniture. As I said previously, woodwork is not my thing. The tree was at least a lot older than the Humberette. We did not count the rings on the tree, as we ran out of fingers for counting, it was too cold to take our shoes and socks off to use our toes as well! Mature sweet chestnut trees can grow to 35 metres, have a diameter of 2 metres and can live for up to 700 years. This photo above shows Robert making his first cut into the fallen sweet chestnut tree, for taking out the section, for making the top bows. I would estimate the diameter of the trunk at this point to be about 5' 6" as this is the higher side of the ground and the weight of the tree has pushed some of the trunk into the soft ground. Yesterday morning I spent my time sanding the top bows with, 80, 120 and 180 grit, by then I was worn out. That's it, I'm not going any smoother, I tried the tin of 'stuff' Robert gave me to paint them with, on a sample bit of the wood, the finish looked OK to me. Not much progress will be made today on the Humberette as I have my annual job of helping with the Jaymic stocktaking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 Hello Mike, How does Chestnut compare with hardness, to Hickory or Oak with regards to hardness? Al 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Macartney Posted March 29, 2019 Author Share Posted March 29, 2019 Hello Al, Sweet chestnut timber is similar to oak but is more lightweight and easier to work. It has a straight grain when young but this spirals in older trees. It can be used for carpentry, joinery and furniture. In south east England sweet chestnut is coppiced to produce poles (not the ones from Poland!) We noticed the 'spirals' when Robert first tried to cut the section out of the tree trunk lengthwise, the chainsaw did want to follow the spiral grain. Roger got over this problem by changing the angle on the cutting blades of the chain to, I think, 10 degrees, but don't quote me on this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 Are Chestnut trees still in abundance in your area? I understand that the Chestnut trees in the eastern US were about all killed by some type of blight many years ago. Al 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.White Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 Perhaps this will help. Mike's area is not affected ....yet! https://www.woodlandtrust.org.uk/visiting-woods/tree-diseases-and-pests/key-threats/sweet-chestnut-blight/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Macartney Posted March 30, 2019 Author Share Posted March 30, 2019 Thanks for that interesting link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 18 hours ago, alsfarms said: Are Chestnut trees still in abundance in your area? I understand that the Chestnut trees in the eastern US were about all killed by some type of blight many years ago. Al It was a different type of chestnut. The American Chestnut was very common here in NE until the chestnut blight around or before WWI. Now it is all but extinct although there have been attempts to revive it by crossing it with more blight resistant species. We are losing our ash trees now in much the same manner although it seems to be taking a lot longer... I still have some big ones. When my parents bought some land in the late 60s there were huge fallen chestnut trees all over it... I have heard that some untouched American chestnut trees have survived in the Appalachians. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 Interesting about the Chestnut trees. I also have a sideline interest in horticulture. Al 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Macartney Posted March 30, 2019 Author Share Posted March 30, 2019 21 hours ago, alsfarms said: Are Chestnut trees still in abundance in your area? Al, Yes there seem to be a lot of sweet chestnut trees about in this part of the country. A couple of years ago it looked as if the horse chestnut trees (conker trees) had a problem as the bark seemed to darken in places and the leaves went brown very early. Last year they seemed to recover. Robert gave me this 'stuff' to paint the top hoops with. It seemed to paint on easily this morning. I will have a look tomorrow to see if it needs another coat. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 (edited) Is that an MGC alongside the top bows? Edited March 30, 2019 by keiser31 (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Macartney Posted March 30, 2019 Author Share Posted March 30, 2019 Hi, No it is and MGB with an MG RV8 engine, fuel injection and transmission. It is fitted with Hoyle coilover front suspension, Firstline 5-link rear suspension and a Quaife torque sensing diff. Over 1,000 hours of my time went into this MG. I had rebuilt a genuine MGBGTV8 previously and ended up selling it back to the long time friend I bought it from. I reported on this restoration/rebuild on the UK MG Car Club V8 Register website with around 250 reports on my progress to help other MG owners. It can be seen with the following link:- http://www.v8register.net/profileV8RebuildMacartney.htm I did this rebuild/restoration before the BMW E30 325i touring, that I did not do any reports on, and the Humberette rebuild that I am doing at present. My next project after the Humberette, if I last long enough, is an 1899 Perks and Birch motor wheel tricycle. Here is a photo of Perks, Birch and there General Manager on their invention at the turn of the century. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 How good is the OSMO product for outside use in the weather and sun? Al 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 It is my guess it is not so good in the sun. It says on the can it is for interior use. In this country, with our high UV index in the summer, it might not last long in the sun. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 Mike, Do you have the top hoops all set up for the trimmer to fit the material? Al 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Macartney Posted April 4, 2019 Author Share Posted April 4, 2019 (edited) I apologise for late replies to the above posts. I have been laid up for some days with my bad breathing and not been 'allowed to go out and play'! I am a good advert for always wearing a mask when sanding, spraying and not starting smoking at an early age! We will just have to see how the Osmo polyx stands up to the UK weather. Most of it's future life will be indoors and when outside will be covered with the top (hood) material, either when the hood is up or down. I asked Jane if she wouldn't mind brush painting the brackets on the body for the top (hood) metal folding brackets and rest. She started on one side where I had removed the brackets and I was undoing the brackets on the other side when I decided to move to her side to get another spanner out of the tool box. Her voice loudly said "MIND THE PAINT", so I moved forward quickly, thinking my back was about to touch the bracket she had just painted, but I easily managed to kick the new 1 litre can of paint over! The contents of the nearly empty tin of paint left to soak up in sawdust overnight. Jane scraped it off the floor the next morning as she reckoned that it was the dust from sprinkling the sawdust caused the worsening of my breathing. The big bag of sawdust I have is from a company that cut wood and MDF which is not good for breathing in! Anyway, back to the bows - with the brackets painted with a couple of coats of satin black we could try the bows. Up and held in position with string. . . . . . . . and down. I am a bit bothered about the bows not being straight in the horizontal. I will have to see what the coach trimmer has to say about it. If necessary, perhaps I could screw a steel bar to the underside to help straighten the wood. Edited April 4, 2019 by Mike Macartney missing words and deleted word (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 Sound like you are having all the fun. If you never have a full gallon of oil, or can of paint or somesuch that inadvertently gets kicked across the floor, I feel bad for you! I once had a 1956 Chevrolet Nomad spend some time in my shop. I really like the styling of that car. A good friend talked me out of that car and he has done wonders with it! Anyway, over the course of a day in commenced to have bladder trouble and dumped all its transmission oil on to my uncoated concrete floor, just to surprise me when I crawled underneath. I grumbled for quite some time on that event! Now I just realize that it helped to put a preservative Dexron coating on my floor and I should like it because I can't change it! Can you take a picture from the back of your car so we can get a better perspective on the horizontal alignment you are speaking about? Al 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 (edited) I see the curves in the bow's centers. Did you have to stretch the top bows outward in order to get them to mount on the brackets? If so,THAT is probably causing the downward curve in the bows. I do not think a piece of flat steel will make in any straighter. Edited April 4, 2019 by keiser31 (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Macartney Posted April 5, 2019 Author Share Posted April 5, 2019 Thank you for your comments. This morning, lying in bed, I was thinking about the slight downward curve in the bows, and have come to the following conclusions: The steaming seems to alter the structure of the wood. The parts that weren't steamed are still flexible whereas the steamed areas are stiff and inflexible. It may have been better steaming the complete length of the wood rather than having two tubes and just steaming the areas to be bent. This may have then 'stiffened' the area between the two bends. By overbending the curves to allow for spring back it meant that I have had to slightly stretch the bows outwards to fit over the metal brackets, as keiser31 mentions, this has caused the slight downward curve in the bow. If I had not 'overbent' the curves and had to pull the bent ends in, to fit them to the metal brackets, the curve in the top of the bow would have been upwards, which would have been better. I hope the above information will help others with any steam bending they may do in the future. I still have three planks left from the sweet chestnut tree that we can use to make another set of bows if I have to. At present I will wait and see what the coach trimmer has to say about the bows. He will have quite a few weeks work to do on the leather button back seat and the other interior trim before he gets to work on the top. Therefore I will have enough time to make a long steaming tube and modify the jig to make three more bows if I have to. We live and learn! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Tate Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 Mike, It may be possible for you to use a hot pipe method of wood bending to straighten out that slight dip in the bows. Check this out. https://www.wwgoa.com/video/bending-wood-with-a-hot-pipe-000009/ That will give you an idea and I think there are other Youtube videos that may be more detailed. Good luck Frank 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 Hello Mike, I may be on the sideline, but I am certainly keeping up with your postings on steam bending wood and especially your learning curve. I am about to start on the steam port modification to my pressure cookers. Before I build the steam tubes, I will watch for more information and problem resolution from you. Keep up the good work and no more paint on the floor...that is less effective and rather annoying! Al 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidMc Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 (edited) I have restored two open cars using professionally steam bent bows. In both cases I had to stiffen the horizontal part of most of the bows to prevent them bending when the top material was pulled tight. I stiffened them by shaping wood to fit neatly under the bow blending in at the curved ends. The trimmer who did the work on the tops said that this is usually needed. However your problem is a little different in that the bows have curved before there is any load on them, it will be interesting to see if your solution works but you may need to stiffen them even if that works. A bit off topic, the man who made the bows also makes bows by laminating and gluing thin strips of wood around a former. I believe the advantage of making them this way is that it is possible to achieve a tighter radius. It is also easier for DIY as steam is not required. Edited April 5, 2019 by DavidMc (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Macartney Posted April 6, 2019 Author Share Posted April 6, 2019 Frank, Al and David, many thanks for your ideas and information. I think that I will try David's idea of adding some wood to the underside. Al, When making the jig for bending the wood for your bows it maybe worthwhile making the jig so that the horizontal part of the bow (the bit in the middle of the two bends) has a slight curve upwards to allow for any bending of the middle of bow when the top material (hood material) is pulled tight. It's just an idea and I might try this is I have to make some more bows. I hope the information here and above will help others in the future. Al, I will try and avoid kicking open paint tins across the floor in the future. Jane made a great job of clearing up my mess and the sawdust soaked up virtually all the black paint. Thanks again for your help. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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