Mike Macartney

Thanks for your help and photos.

Re: . . . I loaned him one of mine and he made two based on the dimensions. That's what I mean about exchanging stuff and expertise. I imagine this goes on all the time - at least I hope it does - but to the guys who think only with their checkbook it is largely invisible. Yours and Al's comments are my sentiments entirely. "ship shape and Bristol fashion" - Another nautical expression springs up in the posts! Joe, you have widened my horizons, I would never, in the past, even considered trying to make banjo unions. Thank for all your useful posts.

I am looking for some photos of what I think you may call 'leather splash aprons'? Can anybody supply me with some photos of antique automobiles, of any make, with leather aprons fitted to give me an idea of what they can look like? Below is a similar car to the 1914 Humberette that I am restoring. This Humberette below photo is fitted with rather 'tatty' looking 'leather aprons' between the running boards and the body, and also from the front fenders (wings) to just under the sides of the hood (bonnet). To date this is the only photo I have been able to find. It seems that not may cars of this period in the UK had these devices fitted. The restoration reports on my 1914 Humberette can be found at: REPORTS ON A 1914 HUMBERETTE RESTORATION Your help would be greatly appreciated Mike

If the steel is the same and clean, the welding is OK. The problem I find is when you try and weld a bit of stainless to mild steel. You are correct, grinding off excess welds takes a lot longer than the actual welding process. I have been welding on and off for 55-years, first with gas and later with MIG. By the end of a job my welding gets a lot better. It would be nicer if my welding was as good at the beginning of the job! Yesterday I found your post I found my luck (maybe)! I love the American truck that collected your new acquisition. As my wife won't let me buy a truck to restore I may attempt to build a model of a truck. Unfortunately, as I do not have the skills or the patience to build it from scratch, it would have to be a model kit. Last time I was in the states I called into a Kenworth dealership and saw my ideal motorhome. It was a Kenworth truck with an airstream caravan body mounted on the back.

Linguistics is a fascinating, and sometimes frustrating. I couldn't agree more! Why are 'rocker panels' (in the USA), called 'sills' in the UK? Any idea? You also mentioned Model T Fords. I bought one at an on-line at an auction of a Danish museum that had closed. I had never bid online before at a live auction. I had been bidding for a veteran (pre 1905) car that had a very low guide price. I missed buying that car, as it went for about 5-times over the estimate. I then saw on the computer screen, a model T come up for auction and put a bid in, as I thought "That's cheap". The bidding must have been in a cue, because I won it at a much higher price than I bid at. I did not realise until the end of the auction when I pressed the button that said 'See Your Invoice' that I had also bought a model A Ford that was very nearly past being able to restore, and a 1926 La Salle! After getting the cars back to the UK, also quite expensive. I managed to sell the model A at a big loss. The model T, I found out later, had been in the museum as a static exhibit and many of the parts had been removed to keep the museums other model T running. Both Jane and I liked the shape of the car and I decided to refurbish it without spending too much money on the car. After a lot of time and effort I got the model T roadworthy and took it for a drive. In my opinion it was the worst car I have ever driven, (and I've driven a lot), driving it back into the garage, it started to go too fast and I automatically pressed the LH pedal and shot forward even faster, smashing into my penny farthing bicycle which was hanging up in front and the continued momentum of the car nearly put the model T through the garage wall! I then decided to sell the car and put it in the next available auction loosing about £4k! Suffice to say, Jane has banned me from buying cars at online live auctions ever again. The only saving grace of this saga is that I got the La Salle registered and sold it on eBay at a profit which made up a little for the losses on the models A & T. Below is a photo of the Model T. Thanks Wayne for the information, I will try and get a post about the 'aprons', 'splash guards' on later today.

Oil Pump I had a go with holding the top part of the pump in the vice using one soft vice clamp and a bit of wood in the other jaw. I then used the rubber glove to try and get the body of the pump to turn - no joy. Then decided that I would try soaking the joint in thinners to see if that would help. After 2-hours in the thinners I tried again. With both hands, one in the glove and the other on the brass pipe - still no movement. I will leave it in the thinners overnight and see what happens tomorrow.  BACK TO THE WING REPAIRS  I tried the strengthening plate that had come off for the fit. It didn't fit quite snugly enough. Probably due to me welding up the split. A bit of beating it on the sandbag bend it to shape. Both parts got a coat of etching primer. I have decided not to hold it in place with solder or weld. I will stick into place with the marine grade Sikaflex I used before on trunk area. This can wait until I have finished all the welding brazing and possibly soldering on the rest of the wing. Attention then turned to the front of the LH rear wing where it bolts to the wooden running board. The plate I had cut was tried in position The original wing in this area is a bit tender and I hope this plate will help to strengthen the area. I punched holes in the plate with my air flanging/punching tool. The plate was clamped back into position . . . . . . . and then MIG welded through the holes to attach the two parts together. You can see from the photograph above that my length calculation was 1/8" too short! I then welded the bottom edge of the plate to the lip that bolts to the running board. . . . . and the 'missing' edge. The weld nuggets were then ground back using a variety of tools as can be seen above and below.  The repaired area was then blown down with the air line and cleaned with panel wipe before . . . . . . . a coat of etch primer. When the wing is finally bolted to the running board I will squeeze so black sealant into the joint to try and stop moisture getting into the gap, which is why that area rusted in the first place. Attention then turned to this area of the wing. I want to strengthen the join of the 'splash plate' to the wing where the gap is. A cardboard template was made. Then realised the solder had come away on one section where the fender mounting bar comes through. I clamped the two parts together and heated it up so the solder would 'run' and reattach. The plate was made and checked for fit. Holes punched, the plate blasted and the area marked so that I could clean off all the paint. One side welded . . . . . . . . and the other side tapped with a pin punch to get a tight fit. . . . . and welded ready to grind off the excess weld. That will have to do for today.

Thanks for that. I'll try and compile a question.

What do you think about putting a post in the 'Discussion forum' about asking for photos of these 'Leather Aprons'? Is that what they are called in America?

Sorry Joe, for the joke about the "shivering monkeys", I didn't mean to start a long discussion! Luckily, I can't think of a joke about "lollipops"!

This is the oil pump for the Humberette, it doesn't work and I need to take it apart to find the problem. Does anybody know how one of these pumps comes apart? I think the barrel should unscrew from the top casting, but before I attack it, and maybe damage it, I thought I would ask for advice. A very similar pump was used on many early motorcycles. Is this the right place to ask? Or should I put the question in the 'General Discussion' forum?

Joe, nice job with the 4-balls, a pair of shivering brass monkeys would be very pleased with them. Just In case, you Americans from the other side of the pond don't understand - We have a saying in the UK "It's cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey"! The bolt head also looks much more period, a nice job.

R.White, Luv2wrench, Christech and Wayne. Thanks for the help in regards to the 'leather aprons'. You have persuaded me to keep the fixing holes. Do any you have any photos of cars fitted with these devices? In the UK I have never come across cars fitted with these before. If I had some photos of something similar I could show them to my coach trimmer to see what he thought about making them. The car is booked in with him for the interior and top at the end of April. Wayne's comment 'most people would buy the ready to use reproduction parts'. Reminds me of how I upset a lot of members of the MGV8 Register when I replied to a someone commenting on my reports on the restoration of my MGBV8. They said "Why are you bothering repairing the bodyshell when you could by a new heritage bodyshell". My reply was "Basically, by fitting a new bodyshell aren't you building a 'kit car'! That did not go down to well with some members!

Have been sitting here in front of the log fire waiting most of the day waiting for a phone call - got a bit bored, so I though I would post a bit more re: the fenders. I find these small cutting discs on the Dremel type tool work quite well grinding off excess weld in difficult to get to places. Looking at the photo has made me remember that I do have an air die grinder that I could try using again. I haven't used it for a while and had forgotten that I had it. There was a slight distortion to the rounded edge of the wing in this area. A few light taps with the hammer put it straight again. I have been puzzling how to repair the bottom of this fender where it bolts to the underside of the running board, (also see a photo in a previous post). The area between fender and the wooden running board had rotted and had been badly repaired in the past. After getting Jane to help me try the fender for fit, she persuaded me, that it was a lot of work to cut that section out and make a complete bottom to the wing as this area is completely hidden from view once fitted. Much against my better judgement, I have decided to go against my normal ways of repair, and put a strengthening band over the badly repaired part that I have now ground back to get rid of most of the bad welding. I will fit a strip of metal that will weld to the wing and also to the ground edge that you can see in the above photo. First I tried measuring the curve with a straight ruler. Then I thought "don't be stupid" - you've got some magnetic strip. By using the magnetic strip I could fit it to the curve then measure the stip. A lot easier! I then decided to cut and weld the plate another day. I inspected the wing strengthening plate and rather than make a new one, I would weld up the spit, easier said than done! Due to the thinning of the metal by the 104-years wear I kept chasing the 'blow holes'. In the end it came good and now the weld needs cleaning up and grinding back. Originally, these cars had leather aprons fitted between the body and the running boards. Also between the front fenders and the bonnet side shut panels, as can been seen in this photo. Personally I think they look ugly and I was not going to make new ones. I don't think they are necessary now that we have 'made up' roads. It is a bit difficult to see in this photo, but there is a line of holes on the inside of the front wing for the fixings of these 'aprons'. The holes show up better in this photo. My question is - Do I keep the holes or weld them up? My thoughts are: If I keep the holes, people are going to ask, "What are the holes in the wings for?" If I weld them up and eventually the car passes on to another custodian, they may want to fit original looking aprons. Your thoughts, on what I should do with the holes, would be appreciated!

I also keep going back and forth between the photos of the real car and your model. I have said it before - I find the skill and attention to detail at this scale is absolutely amazing. No wonder the Swiss are know for watch making!

I am not going to bore you with repeats of the work on the repairs to the other wings, but I do want to post details of working on the rear wing (fender) that I started repairing in my last few posts. Please bear with me as I hope it may help new restorers in the future. I marked out the size of the plate I needed to make the new section of wing, scribed the bend line and started cutting it out with the cutting disc. Because the paint was a bit difficult to get off in the blast cabinet I took most of the pain off with the mule skinner wire brush fitted into the drill. I then blasted the plate in the cabinet and scribed the bend line again, 17mm for the fold over around the brake pipe. I also marked which part to bend up before I put the plate through the Jenney, as before, to give me a fold line. Puzzling how to hold the plate and the and the bit of brake piping was a bit easier this time as I had a bit of experience from my first attempt. Starting to get there! I must of got carried away, panel beating the sheet over the tubing as I forgot to take a photo! Here I am just trying it for fit. I marked where I wanted to cut the new part to fit, using the cutting disc. I took it off the wing and did the final cutting in the vice. Getting there - as British Rail used to say! I painted on some marking out blue to help with showing my scribe line. Scribed the line. Removed the new bit from the wing. Cut the excess material away from the wing and did a trial fit. Cleaned the blue off and made the fist tack. It looks as if the amps are to high and the wire speed also to fast. I then had a practise on a scrap part of the same metal to adjust the MIG welder. The gap on the left hand side of the photo is not as bad as it seems as the new metal is sticking out towards the camera. Second tack weld. Fitting a bit better now. To try and get the new metal in line with the old metal I used a clamp . . . . . . and tack welded from the underside. A few more tacks, letting the weld cool before welding a tack in another position. This helps you with not getting too much heat distortion. So I did not have to wait ages for the welds to cool each time I made a tack, I got a bucket of water and used a damp cloth to quench the hot weld before moving on to the next tack. The idea is to eventually end up with no gaps between the tacks. No, its not my eyesight going. Yes, it should be a straight line. I think I did have the current on the MIG still a bit high and blew some holes that needed welding up. I fitted a new flap wheel on the angle grinder and carefully started to remove the excess weld. Seems to be smoothing out OK. This bit is nerve wracking, as you don't want to grind through the metal each side of the weld! A bit more welding to do on the LH edge of the wing and a bit of carful grinding work with the Dremel to clean up on the RH side above the brass part I think that will do for today.