REPORTS ON A 1914 HUMBERETTE RESTORATION

[Mike Macartney]

More on stripping the Humber V-twin engine.

 

 

Removed the 4 x brass bolts that holds the magneto onto the alloy front timing cover. (the nut to the bottom left is the end of the steering rack).

The brass nut seems to just hold a felt oil seal.

 

 

Timing case nuts and bolts removed. These were more modern metric nuts and bolts.

 

 

The cam looks damaged in this photo. It is OK, I think the bit that looks as if it is missing is staining of the metal. I wonder why there is a castle nut on the magneto drive as there is no hole for a split pin.? Maybe, it is a different magneto. I have not found out yet the make of magneto that Humber used.

 

 

Those new looking split pins are too small for the holes! The outer cam follower's that I have my finger on the one on the left are for the exhaust valves. The metal plate and split pins hold them in place.

 

 

This shows the intermediate gear and cams that run between the crankshaft gear and the magneto gear wheel. The starting handle drives this around to start the engine.

 

 

This looks more like a retaining clip, on the mag drive, than a washer! It was a bit of a bastard to remove. A blow on the end of the shaft with a copper mallet and a scriber to undo it did the trick.

[mike6024]

H-D Connecting Rod Dimensions  ( This is a Link to Connecting Rod Dimensions )

 

 

I never realized they were made like that !!!

 

 

 

Edited June 13, 2019 by mike6024 (see edit history)

[mike6024]

The Humber Register 

 

The Humber Register is a one make club which caters for owners of Veteran, Edwardian and Vintage cars and motorcycles; that is those made before 31st December 1930 and also those i.o.e. engined cars made in 1931 and 1932. (The Post Vintage Humber Car Club at www.humber.org.uk caters for the more recent Humber models.)

 

The Register has about 320 members worldwide and organises at least one major social rally each year. There are also a series of gatherings organised by members in varied locations across the country during the year.

 

The Register also belongs to the RAC approved Inter-Register Club together with a number of other one make Registers, enabling members to participate in further mildly competitive rallies and events, jointly organised, of which the Humber Register event is one.

 

There is a very good bi-monthly bulletin containing reports of Register activities, members' news, rebuilding and repairs, articles featuring Humbers, photographs, and advertisements of cars and spares for sale and wanted.

 

Members serve on a panel to answer questions of a technical nature on the running, maintenance and rebuilding of the various models. There is also a Spares Register for the acquisition and disposal of spare parts, and the making of some unobtainable spares.

 

There is abundant technical information available for the various models as well as a library of previous technical articles as printed in the Bulletin over the years.

 

Copies of handbooks, road tests, etc. may be obtained from the library, and advice can be given on insurance, reclamation of original registration numbers and the history of the vehicles known to us.

 

The Membership Secretary will be happy to answer any queries about the Register and to send out and subsequently receive applications for membership. On joining, members will receive a complete 'starter pack' of information which could be of considerable assistance, especially if they are Humber owners for the first time.

[Mike Macartney]

6 hours ago, mike6024 said:

I never realized they were made like that !!!

 

I am pretty sure they are not, on the Humberette. From looking between the flywheels. it seems that the RH conrod is fitted to a separate crank pin on the LH conrod. Your message has reminded me to have a look through my Humberette file. Maybe there is a parts drawing of the engine. It's a while since I looked through the file.

 

I am a member of the Humber Register. There seems to be very little information on Humberette's, and, from memory, only 3-members with the water cooled engine in their Humberette, the other Humberette's are air cooled.

[Mike Macartney]

Found the parts diagram showing the conrods.

 

 

The con rods can be seen at the bottom of the picture in the middle.

 

Below is an enlarged picture just showing the conrods.

 

 

It appears that the RH conrod attaches to the LH conrod with a separate crankpin. This setup seems unusual to me, as I have never come across this type of arrangement of V-twin conrods before! We learn more everyday.

 

I have found the above post on the 1912 4-cylinder Humber. Unfortunately, he sold the car on before it was finished, it's an interesting read.

Edited June 13, 2019 by Mike Macartney
word missed out (see edit history)

[alsfarms]

What a creative design.  It will be nice to see what it appears like when you get it all opened up.  Have you run across any additional and significant obstacles in your quest to disassemble the engine?  I am speaking of inflated wear of other damage to rotating members?

Al

[Mike Macartney]

My text on stripping the engine is way behind the photographs I have taken. I will now attempt to catch up.

 

 

It appears to be an Eisemann W6J2. Looking on the internet I can't find any info on these?

 

I would like to get it back working again but a number of parts are missing. I contacted 'Magneto Guys' but they replied saying they had a backlog and weren't taking anymore work on at present until they had caught up. Ill try some other companies.

 

 

You can see that there is quite a lot of bits missing.

 

 

This is the rear view.

 

 

To undo the front crankshaft nut I had to stop the crank turning with a couple of wooden blocks under the gudgeon pin.

 

 I also fixed a chain to the LH & RH barrel bolts to attach a chain for lifting.

 

 

There is quite a lot of wear on this inlet valve lifter.

 

 

It looks to me as these lifters could be swopped over for the actual valve adjustable lifter to rest next to the worn part.

 

 

These parts all need 'bagging up' and marked with their locations on the engine.

 

 

These levers operate the exhaust valves.

 

 

There is very little signs of any wear on these. Perhaps the inlet ones were never hardened?

 

 

Ready to attempt to pull off the drive gear from the crankshaft.

 

 

It definitely did not want to move without a 'tap' on the end of the puller with a copper hide. With the engine in place it was impossible to get a 'knocking stick' to the end of the puller.

 

Time to get the engine out.

 

 

From the size of the engine it looks as if you could easily lift it out by hand. The problem is the engine is heavier than it looks.

 

 

It won't come away from the gearbox!

 

 

I gently tried levering the engine forward and could see the 3-springs on the clutch moving backwards and forwards as I levered.

 

I undid the locknuts on the 3-springs and removed the springs.

 

It worked.

 

 

 

More bodges! At the base of the spring studs are fibre washers the two on the top centre and left in the photo are fibre and the one on the right is a rubber 'O-ring'.

 

The brass locking washer had it's locking tab broken off. Does it need to be in brass? Wouldn't one made of mild steel be OK?

 

 

Robert called in to see me just at the right time. I got him to hold a plastic bag under, as I new lots of ball bearings were going to drop out, as I undid the nut. Luckily the bag caught them all.

 

 

This where the cone clutch sits in. The surface looks good with no score marks.

 

 

I think this clutch plate looks alright? Never having had a cone clutch apart before, I am not sure what I should look for? Is the crack in the middle of the photo where the leather joins?

[alsfarms]

The clutch material does not look like it has been overly soaked in crankcase oil so that is a good sign.  I think I would give the clutch a good visual inspection and if you feel just right, put it in a bag and save it for assembly as is.

Al

[Mike Macartney]

8 minutes ago, alsfarms said:

What a creative design.

 

Well Al, I have never come across an engine like this before. The only V-twin I have messed with in the past is a 1925 Indian Scout. From memory, that had a gear train to the valves. I never had the engine fully apart on that bike. I'm a really a virgin when it comes to V-twin engines.

[Roger Zimmermann]

So a small engine and so complex...I hope you will not be upset: typical English!

[mike6024]

 

That looks interesting, though I am not understanding it very well. Maybe when we get a picture of the actual, with the rods connected to the crank, it will make more sense.

 

 

Maybe it's the same idea as this only executed differently?

 

 

 

Edited June 13, 2019 by mike6024 (see edit history)

[alsfarms]

Are you seeing the affects of a high mileage engine or an abused low mile engine?

Al

[Mike Macartney]

18 hours ago, mike6024 said:

 

Maybe it's the same idea as this only executed differently?

 

The photo you posted shows how flywheels have got much smaller when you compare the above to the Humberette flywheels.

 

Now, I am starting to get deeper into the engine. With the engine out and the puller back on to the gear on the crankshaft. A quick blow with the copper hide on the end of the puller and the gear came loose.

 

Now for the clutch on the other side of the engine.

 

 

My largest hub puller was attached to the female part of the clutch assembly.

 

 

It screwed down as tight as I could to try and remove the clutch housing.

 

 

A swift blow and it came off its tapered shaft.

 

 

It was then easy to slide the aluminium crankcases off the crankshaft.

 

 

Look at the nut! It has been chiselled undone and chiselled tight. In the 1970's, at work, we used to joke about farmers saying - "Farmers seem to have only have two tools, a big hammer and a chisel!" Funnily enough, the first person who bought the car and started the restoration on this car was a Farmer!

 

 

I have included this photo as it shows the large diameter of the crankcase, just over 11" in diameter. This is the case at the clutch side of the engine.

 

 

This is what puzzle's me - why do the two conrods look different lengths?

 

 

There was a paper gasket between the barrel and the crankcase, but only on one side!

 

 

This number 102 was stamped on the inside of one of the crankcase halves. I shall have to check to see if this matches up with the engine number.

 

 

This is the view of the inside of forward facing crankcase half.

 

 

Considering this engine had hardly run since being previously stripped down there seemed to be a lot of muck in there. This photo was after I had scraped out most of it.

 

 

I ran my finger and nail over this bearing, on the rear case, it seems as if there is very little wear. Although you can see what looks like grooves I could not feel any difference on the surface  I'll wait until I have checked the rest of the components before I make up my mind what to do here. There is a steel thrust washer between this face and the flywheel.

 

 

The cases were washed in the cleaning tank and I carefully scraped the blue sealer off the faces.

 

 

This is the rear bearing and felt oil seal. You can see there is a bit missing from the casing. From the marks around it, perhaps they tried to lever the clutch housing off?

 

 

The front crankshaft casing was also cleaned and the sealant removed. . . .

 

 

. . . . being very carful not to remove any aluminium.

[JV Puleo]

I guess you've got a good excuse to try out my "nut making" technique.

As to the bronze bearing that looks as if the face is worn... try lapping it on a piece of plate glass with very fine emery paper and light oil. If the striations come out - so much the better. If the thickness of the steel thrust washer allows, I'd think about using a needle roller bearing to replace it. I get them from McMaster Carr but they must be available in the UK.

Are the measurements imperial? I would expect them to be and the threads either Whitworth or BSF but I seem to remember that Humber also used some metric fasteners.

That rear main seal may require some thinking. I have a similar situation on the Mitchell but I've put off thinking about it until I get to the crankshaft.

Edited June 14, 2019 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[Mike Macartney]

18 hours ago, alsfarms said:

Are you seeing the affects of a high mileage engine or an abused low mile engine? Al

 

I am still not sure as to the answer to your question.

 

From my findings to date:

Thick deposits of carbon on the inside of the exhaust pipes.

Damage to the aluminium crankcase castings under the cylinder barrels.

A 'clean' conrod on the RH side of the engine (when viewed from the drivers seat). The other having a blackened surface finish.

Compression height different for each cylinder.

Big end crankpin nuts chiselled undone and tightened with a hammer and chisel.

Ballpein hammer marks on the outside of the LH side conrod (I still have to split the flywheels to get to view this properly).

Pistons and bores showing very little wear apart from the score marks in one of the barrels.

When viewed from the front, the engine rotates in an anti-clockwise direction.

 

To date my ideas are. That the engine had been run from new with a large quantity on oil being delivered to the engine by the drip feed and also possibly run quite rich. The car was used in West London area for short journeys until the second owner purchased the car in 1921. The second owner used the car and had a major engine problem in 1926, took the

car off the road and left it in his garage until he moved to Devon in 1947, taking the car with  him and storing it in a barn. The next owner had known about the car for over twenty years and eventually received a phone call at Christmas 1993 that he could have the car. The Humberette was in his possession (Mr Jenkinson) from 1994 until his death. I am not sure when he died, but his daughter sold the car to Mr Jackman on the 1st June 2017.

 

1994 to 2017. Mr Jenkinson repanelled the body, overhauled the chassis and rebuilt the engine. As this age of car were not fetching any decent prices I assume that he did not want to spend much on restoring the car and engine and just tried to get it running again as cheaply as possible.

 

2017 to 2018. From what I found out from the Humber Register, and Mr Jackman's son, the engine had never been run, until Mr Jackman eventually managed to get it running, but only by pouring petrol into the float chamber. He then took the barrels and pistons out and sent them to an engine builder. When Mr Jackson suddenly died his son got the engine barrels and pistons back, fitted then back on the engine. He then put it on eBay and I ended up with the Humberette!

 

I have a sneaking suspicion, at the moment, that the Mr Jenkinson rebuilt the engine, either putting the crankshaft assembly back in the casings the wrong way around or, put the two conrods on the crank the wrong way around, which I think is the most likely. I shall hopefully find out when I split the two flywheels. I think he thought the engine rotated clockwise?

 

As to my comment above . . . "this age of car were not fetching any decent prices". . . they are still not. To date I have spent more on it than I could hope to get for it - but what the heck - I am enjoying working on it and learning new stuff! As I have said previously, it gets me out of gardening and housework!

 

 

[Mike Macartney]

15 hours ago, JV Puleo said:

I guess you've got a good excuse to try out my "nut making" technique.

As to the bronze bearing that looks as if the face is worn...

 

It looks as if you are right Joe. I was thinking of starting with the studs and nuts that hold the crankcase together.

 

I'll have a go with fine production paper and plate glass. I have glass surface block but I would need to remove the bearing from the crankcase to clean the surface of the bearing as it way below the sides of the crank case. I do have some plate glass that I kept from the windshield of the Model T Ford I restored some years ago. I will need to cut a section out of this windscreen, if I am to clean the bearing up without removing the bearing.

 

Needle roller bearings - I have been thinking about these already.

 

As for threads used by Humber, there are BSF BSC BSW and some Metric threads.

 

At the present time I am still measuring the crankshaft assembly that I have put between centres in the big lathe. In all my years in the motor trade I have never thought so long and hard about an engine, before actually starting any proper work on the engine.

 

 

Interestingly, it appears that the crankshaft assembly could fit, inside the alloy casings, either way around, as they look and measure the same. Looking at the smaller of the two conrods it has a lot of slack and maybe bent. I've had 'fun and games' with the dial gauge and support. The dial gauge I started using was 'sticky' and not returning, I am now using a better one. I also got in a muddle with having to keep altering the 'bracketry' to mount the dial gauge in different positions for measuring on the different faces. Slowly, I am getting the hang of it!

[alsfarms]

I am perplexed by the different compression height of the rod assemblies.  Something sounds amiss to me.  More Sherlock Holmes.......

Al

[JV Puleo]

I suspect that at least one of the rods has been replaces with one that isn't the right height. I think the best way to fix that would be to replace both of them but finding a rod with the right dimensions may be difficult. With luck, Mike will be able to find a rod that can be modified to fit. but I've had a terrible time looking for rods - the dimensions are never listed so you'd have to know exactly what rod you are looking for. I spent a lot of time on that and finally gave up and decided to make them but that is clearly the last resort. Maybe try one of the makers of custom rods for tractors.

[Mike Macartney]

The rod set up is unusual to say the least. You will have to wait and see what I mean latter on. I posted the last photo too soon and would like to show how I got there, for other Humberette owners who might delve into the internals of their engine, with the very limited information that is available.

 

 

The inside of the crankcase on the LH side showing the steel repair plate that has been screwed on.

 

 

This where the push rod for the valve comes out of the crankcase.

 

 

This is the view from inside the crankcase. I will check the wear on them before I attempt to remove them. Removing them may prove difficult.

 

 

This a view looking between the flywheels. The dents look like hammer marks on the big end to me?

 

 

It looks to me if there is a separate big end bearing for the LH conrod on the RH big end?

 

 

I would have thought the two inside faces of the two flywheels should be parallel?

 

 

There is certainly a discrepancy in the first two measurements I took!

 

 

This is the crankshaft end at the front of the car. This end does not seem to have any form of thrust washer? The shaft on this side is in very good condition.

 

 

This is the gearbox end of the crankshaft that does have a steel thrust washer that should be against the phosphor bronze bearing in the rear crankcase. The shaft on this side has a little wear but nothing too excessive.

 

 

While I had a chance I thought I would measure the distance from the flywheel face to the point where the thrust washer sat.

 

Now it was time to get technical and attempt to mount the crankshaft assembly in the lathe, to try and find why the flywheels aren't parallel and by how much.

 

 

The whole crank assembly is very heavy. How am I going to lift it to fit between centres in the lathe?

 

 

A thicker bit of wood and a couple of wedges helped.

 

 

Success, it was easier than I thought.

 

 

I checked the out of trueness on each outside edge of the flywheel with a dial gauge.

 

 

Marking the low point with a white chalk marker pen. At this point it is -0.015" low.

 

 

The shafts were also checked and notes written in my book of the run out.

 

 

With the crank between centres in the lathe it was now easier to measure more accurately the gap between the flywheels.

 

 

I hope now I have enough information and measurements before I split the two flywheels to get to the big end. Presumably, the chisel marks are for lining up the two flywheels.

 

 

A difference of nearly 50 thou between the widest and narrowest gaps. I would have expected that it should be a lot less.

 

On the shaft on one end of the crank there was a run out of 2 thou and the other end 9 thou which I would have thought was too much. I was expecting 1 to 2 thou. I rotated the whole crank in the lathe to double check my measurements. (second lot of measurements are in the pink marker. The yellow marker is the gap between the flywheels.

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

[r1lark]

Mike, this thread has overall been very interesting, but this part with you figuring out the engine is great. I don't know anything about V twin engines, so seeing how this is put together has been very enlightening. You are going about this in a very methodical fashion, which is great. Looking forward to what you find.

[JV Puleo]

I just went through the engine photos again, when I'm not falling apart at the end of the day. Yes, it looks as if there are two connections for the big ends. The difference in lengths would be the distance between the centers of the main crank shaft and the additional pin so likely tow different lengths are needed. That will make balancing it an interesting task. The good part is that there may be bronze bushings in there rather than Babbit bearings and they may be removable by pressing them out. That should make reassembly a lot easier - but it requires carefully fitting the big end bushings/bearings before it's assembled. All in all, a very different sort of engine much more akin to a motorcycle. You might need to make a tool to take the flywheels apart. It would have to be done very carefully as I suspect the difference in gap is the result of someone taking them apart and not reassembling them carefully enough. That chisled nut is a good indicator that they've been taken apart by someone who wasn't very careful.

 

 

[mike6024]

 

 

So it seems the shorted rod in the photo is the one in the diagram with the extra link, and the pivot joint labeled number "12."

 

[mike6024]

Daimler patented a V twin
gasoline engine on Christmas
Eve, 1889. Studying the patent
image shows us the basics of this
early yet modern motor design.
The first item that may look
familiar is the common crank pin,
labeled “d”. Both pistons and their
rods were connected to the
crankshaft at one location on the
flywheel, the pistons come to TDC
one right after the other as the
crank rolls around. This is how
motor manufacturers from
Daimler’s time through the V twins
built today. It is possible to
separate the connecting rods into
two locations on the flywheel “C,
this brings the pistons up at
alternating times, to change the
vibration characteristics, exhaust
sounds and induction restrictions.
Separate the crank has been done
but manufacturing issues, motor
width considerations and high
component stresses have
prevented the widespread
adoption of the idea however.

 

http://www.milliesievertmoto.com/uploads/1/2/6/3/12639824/early_motorcycles.pdf

 

What does this part even mean?

It is possible to
separate the connecting rods into
two locations on the flywheel “C,
this brings the pistons up at
alternating times, to change the
vibration characteristics, exhaust
sounds and induction restrictions.

[Mike Macartney]

22 hours ago, r1lark said:

I don't know anything about V twin engines, so seeing how this is put together has been very enlightening. You are going about this in a very methodical fashion, which is great. Looking forward to what you find.

 

That makes two of us that don't know much about V-twin engines! I was having fun, until today, when I found what maybe a 'big problem'. I need to get my 'thinking cap' on to think of a way of overcoming it. I will post more about the problem later. Anyway, I am glad you are enjoying my investigations.

[Mike Macartney]

14 hours ago, JV Puleo said:

it looks as if there are two connections for the big ends. The difference in lengths would be the distance between the centers of the main crank shaft and the additional pin so likely tow different lengths are needed. That will make balancing it an interesting task. The good part is that there may be bronze bushings in there rather than Babbit bearings

 

Yes Joe, it is a weird setup.

 

Here is a preview of when I split the flywheels.

 

 

The bearings are bronze and not Babbit metal. More information and photos coming later.

[Mike Macartney]

10 hours ago, mike6024 said:

 

 

 

Mike, I tried clicking on the link, but nothing happened! Also, I couldn't find a way to enlarge the drawing so I could read the text. The Daimler engine has a very narrow V configuration.

[alsfarms]

Hello mike,

Considering how the V-twin shares a common rod journal, it stands to reason that the leverage point would be different for the secondary rod has the connecting point will push the rod further into the cylinder.  Thus a shorter rod to compensate for4 that difference.  The V-twin design has that unmistakable sound due to the firing order being hit hit, miss miss. 

Al

[mike6024]

That last picture makes it really clear. Fascinating. One crankpin as required. But the second rod has it's big end offset from the crankpin.

 

Wondering about your observation that the two connecting rods, or pistons had different "compression heights" I think it was you said? But the shorter rod, the way it is offset, it is not just to the side, but also a greater radial distance away from the crankshaft. So it seems that offset would effectively add some length to it, as it is off at an angle to the other cylinder, and as the crankshaft turns maybe the offset adds some height to the piston when it gets to TDC? But you already confirmed the piston heights at TDC are different as the crankshaft turns, is that what you said?

 

Here is the pdf link

 

http://www.milliesievertmoto.com/uploads/1/2/6/3/12639824/early_motorcycles.pdf

 

here's what you can do:

 

Do a Google search for the terms ( just copy and paste into the search box )

 

A Summary of Early Motorcycle Engine Design Compiled by Mary

 

And a link to that pdf will come up in you search results. You should be able to access it that way, if the link I gave is no good.

 

 

Edited June 17, 2019 by mike6024 (see edit history)

[Mike Macartney]

I am just wondering if Humber used this unusual set up to get over the problem of somebodies patent of two conrods working on the same big end journal?

 

Mike, thanks for the link. By pasting it into Google I managed to open it. Very interesting.

 

I still think that the first person who put this engine back together put the main and secondary conrods in the engine around the wrong way. I think I need to do a scale drawing or make a cardboard model to see if it makes the 4mm difference in compression height on one cylinder. Although the engine is proving a bit of a 'pain in the backside' I am quite enjoying the process of trying to sort the problems.

[Mike Macartney]

By way of a change from engine details here are a couple of photos of the hood, sent to me by Paul Moore the coach trimmer.

 

 

He wrote "The hood is now stretched over the frame to allow the fabric to stretch"

 

 

.

[JV Puleo]

Nice!

Are the pistons the same height? I wonder if they compensated for the length of rod by changing the compression height. I suspect you are right about not using fork & blade rods but they were always trying new and, to us odd, things. I'll see if I can find a copy of the patent issued to my great grandfather...a really strange one.

 

jp

 

 

I found it right away...how's this for an "off the wall" idea.

 

 

This was my grandmother's father, born in 1851 and died in 1936 so I never met him. He made and lost several fortunes - around 1899 (when he was in one of his rich phases living in Carbondale, Pennsylvania) he was interested in buying a car but, as it couldn't climb the hill to his house, he didn't buy it. I don't believe he ever owned a car. This patent was sold to the Thames Engine Company (I presume it was named for the Thames River in New London, Connecticut). He lived in New London at the time and my grandmother remembered helping him in his shop, behind the house. Her and her brothers would take turns hand cranking his lathe.

 

Would I like to find an engine with this type of connecting rod. I suspect, that if any were made, they were marine engines.

Edited June 18, 2019 by JV Puleo
More stuff (see edit history)

[mike6024]

Rod big end is a rectangular slot

[mike6024]

"the 4mm difference in compression height on one cylinder. "

 

So the maximum height for the shorter rod is 4mm less than the longer one.

 

[alsfarms]

Mike ,  

The hood is turning out nice.  I can see the "HEAT" on you to get the mechanics done so you can run and enjoy this prize!

Al

[chistech]

I remember reading in your thread (at least I think I read) that you thought one piston was incorrect to the engine. Now I know very little about engine design but one thing I learned on my own Olds is the wrist pin (grudeon) on the Olds pistons is very low in the skirt in relation to the piston top to clear the crankcase because of the physics of stroke, bore diameter, and rod clearance to the crankcase. The reason I mention this, is there a possibility do to the offset rod, that the piston might have its grudeon pin 4mm lower in the skirt for clearance issues? This would mean two different pistons in pin location only. Now I’m probably all wet here and what I’m proposing would probably cause all kinds of other issues but it’s just something I thought of. I apologize for sounding dumb in advance. 

Edited June 19, 2019 by chistech (see edit history)

[mike6024]

You're not all wet there. It's a possibility. And consider this: the shorter rod would have more swing to it, meaning it is possible it could require a piston with a shorter skirt. At least I think that is possibly the case. The angle sweep at the wrist pin, for the shorter rod, I think could be greater.

[Mike Macartney]

18 hours ago, JV Puleo said:

Are the pistons the same height? I wonder if they compensated for the length of rod by changing the compression height. I suspect you are right about not using fork & blade rods but they were always trying new and, to us odd, things. I'll see if I can find a copy of the patent issued to my great grandfather...a really strange one. My grandmother remembered helping him in his shop, behind the house. Her and her brothers would take turns hand cranking his lathe.

Would I like to find an engine with this type of connecting rod. I suspect, that if any were made, they were marine engines.

 

Yes the pistons are the same height and are identical to each other. I am not impressed with the conrods, the big end bearing looks as if it has been machined off centre and the 'secondary rod 'pivot pin' looks rather small diameter. There is a lot of slack in this 'big end' of the secondary conrod. At the moment, I think I may see if I can find a 'fork and blade' rod that is a suitable length. Many V-twin engines at this period of time were 'clones' of J.A.P. V-twin engines, used in Morgan's and other cycle cars.

 

I like the your great grandfathers patent drawing. Another project for you when you get bored - building his engine! It looks as if it would cause lot of wear on the slotted big end bearing surfaces.

 

I can now see where your interest and expertise comes from. Can you imagine nowadays finding youngsters to hand crank your lathe for you?

 

The Victorians and Edwardians engineers were a very inventive lot. I wonder how much more they would have managed to make if they had the materials that we have now?

[Mike Macartney]

16 hours ago, mike6024 said:

So the maximum height for the shorter rod is 4mm less than the longer one.

 

MIke, yes. The measurement from the top of the combustion chamber to the top of the piston on one of the two cylinders is nearly 4mm different. That is why I started my investigations to find the reason why. And then I started to find more problems! It now looks as if the trimming work will be finished before the engine is back together and running. Never mind, at least it keeps the brain cells working.

[Mike Macartney]

12 hours ago, alsfarms said:

The hood is turning out nice.  I can see the "HEAT" on you to get the mechanics done so you can run and enjoy this prize!

 

Al, I suppose the "Heat" is on, but if the trim is ready before the engine, it is no great shakes - I enjoy the problem solving - it keeps me out of mischief!

 

Regarding the hood; a fellow Humberette owner in Australia thinks I am mad, having the hood made as the original, as it is very difficult to change lanes safely. Where we live there are hardly any roads with more than two lanes. One going one direction and the other going in the opposite direction. Nearly all the side roads are more or less single track. I cant see me going any great distance in the Humberette.

 

Here is a photo of Kevin with his car in Australia. He has been a great help to me with advice and information on the Humberette's

 

 

Kevin does lots of rallies with his Humberette.

[JV Puleo]

I like the idea of using fork & blade rods. Were I doing it, I think that is the avenue I'd pursue.