Ford is all but getting out of the Car Business

[charlier]

2 hours ago, Frank DuVal said:

Rear cameras are great for parallel parking, if you still do that yourself! ?

You can tell if that is one or two inches left between your bumper and the car behind you. No more bump to park like in the old days....

 

And, you can choose to not look at it! Mirrors are still mandatory, although some interior rear view mirrors are cameras.

 

Rear cameras on a pickup truck are also great when it comes time to hitch up a bumper pull car trailer.

 

Both my current pickup truck and prior SUV have/had backup cameras. These cameras are invaluable when your vehicle is parked between two large vehicles in a parking lot (like a box truck) and your view is blocked. When backing out of a space like this with only mirrors you are totally BLIND to pedestrians and vehicles traveling down the row of parked vehicles. With the rear cameras a driver see those area and avoid hitting pedestrians and vehicles. The number of pedestrians and vehicles I was able to avoid hitting over the last 11 years because of these cameras easily paid for both cameras and then some. 

 

1 hour ago, mike6024 said:

Speaking of police cruisers, all law enforcement now seems to be going with SUV's, police, sheriff, etc. That is not to say literally all, without exception, but everywhere I look policing is being done in SUV's.

 

Given the weapons, equipment, radio and computer systems among other things that law enforcement is required to have in their vehicles the current crop of smaller sedans are simply not large enough anymore after Ford discontinued the Crown Vic. A friend of mine in Law Enforcement prefers his old Crown Vic instead of his current Expedition. He and some of his fellow officers also has some very unkind words for Ford's choice of the standard tires used on the police edition of the Explorer and Expedition. His department ended up replacing all the tires due to serious traction and handling issues in certain types of weather. 

 

 

[Bleach]

I've noticed LEO's are mostly using Explorers and Chargers here in Vancouver, WA. I still see an occasional Crown Vic but those are getting rarer by the month. The sheriffs in the unincorporated areas are mostly running Tahoes and some Australian built Caprices. They're not being left too many options for cruisers since the Crown Victoria was discontinued.

I never did see a police version of the Taurus.

[Bleach]

I've done fine without back up cameras for over 40 years of driving. I'm going to decide what I want or don't want in my car. If that means having to drive vehicles that are 20, 30, 40 or more years old, that's fine with me. I wouldn't be interested in sites like the AACA, HAMB, etc if I wasn't.

[Buffalowed Bill]

Let me say that I agreed with the govt's assessment that GM was too big to allow to fail. This is not based on politics, or ideology, it is strictly based on economics. GM took the govt loans, paid their obligation early, and moved on. 

 

Ford got universal kudos for not needing to accept the "bailout,"  but what did it really cost them. While they were able to secure loans on their own, to stay the course they also were forced to sell Jaguar/Landrover to Tata motors. Alan Mullally, company president, stated that it was time to return to their own luxury marque Lincoln. The selling price was, I believe, around two Billion dollars. This was after Ford had sunk millions into the Coventry plant, to both modernize it, and to attack the quality flaws that had become implicit with the marque. So how did that work out for Ford, not very well. Tata returned management to Coventry, and returned the company to profitability. Enough profit, in fact, to cover all of the purchase price in several years. Ford's emphasis on Lincoln fell flat. While the Towncar served the company well domestically, there was no international marque recognition. By giving up on their only global, luxury marque was a huge mistake. We live in a world economy, and Ford chose not to play.

 

Personally I think that Ford made another huge mistake, when the chose to drop the full framed, rear wheeled drive, Crown Victoria  based, line of cars. They had been the mainstay for police, taxi and limousine service for two decades. None of their offerings have made them a player in any of these markets.   

[Wheelmang]

On 4/26/2018 at 10:28 PM, charlier said:

FYI, here in Pennsylvania the state gasoline tax is 58.3 cents/gallon.

All that diesel/gas tax in PA and the roads that I need to use (I have tried them all) to get to Mass are so bad I refuse to haul my camper through there anymore. Makes me wonder what they are using the income on. The last time I tried the pounding shook a lens cover over the side of the camper. It always shakes open the kitchen drawers and in some cases has bounced clothes off the hangers in the closet. Done with PA!

 

[CarNucopia]

On 4/26/2018 at 9:23 PM, Matt Harwood said:

 

 

The problem with making economy cars only when there's demand is lead time. Even in today's world of fast prototyping, it's still 24-36 months to get a new product to market, depending on tooling time. Things will go to hell a lot faster than that, leaving Ford and Chrysler with showrooms full of giant trucks and V8 muscle cars and nothing to sell. They won't be able to borrow three years' worth of operating expenses to keep the lights on until they can literally rush something through the development process. And even if they manage to do so, how good a product do you recon it'll be at that point?

 

An important point that seems to be missing is that Ford is still going to make cars. They just won’t be selling them in the US. If the market changes, the product will be availible and can be brought to the US very quickly.

 

The reality is the car making business is one of the most highly regulated industries on earth. All the regulatory requirements that need to be met (emissions and safety) combined with the focus on autonomy creates a situation where Ford simply can’t be investing everywhere. They need to choose the areas that will provide the best return.

 

Another thing to consider is that the gas mileage of SUVs has improved dramatically. If gas prices spike and MPG becomes more important, Ford will have vehicles that get decent mileage.

Edited April 29, 2018 by Buick64C (see edit history)

[plymouthcranbrook]

20 hours ago, Pluto said:

Auto shut-off, along with tire pressure monitors and back-up cameras are the latest manifestations of a decades-long involvement in vehicle engineering and design by the federal government. Average consumers are assumed to be unaware of this as auto maker's ads bugle these devices as no-cost features. How many thousands less would basic transportation cost without these things?

The sad part is that I think that they are right. I know so many people(young and older) who have no idea how to check oil or fill tires. If the monitor didn't tell them, they would be lost.   And if they do know anything about it  they still wait for a computer prompt.

[Buffalowed Bill]

The most current news indicates that Ford's only domestic car offering will be the Mustang.

[Larry Schramm]

Only selling trucks depends on what you consider a car or truck. 

 

In todays over regulated world, many of the vehicles that we might consider cars are really classified as trucks.  Think of many of the crossover vehicles that look like an old "station wagon". Many of those are now classified as trucks for federal fuel economy ranking.  In reality there is a large blurred line between cars and trucks especially in the mind of the consumer.

 

As for fuel economy, I like my '07 Silverado which averages about 16mpg.  A couple more in the summer and 1 or 2 less in the winter.  Have no plans on buying any more cars.

[Buick35]

I  say tax pot not gas.

[JACK M]

3 hours ago, Buick35 said:

I  say tax pot not gas.

 

Both are taxed already around here.

They are saying that Oregon is collecting millions. I wonder where its going.

[Doug Novak]

Jumping in late but here's my 2 cents worth.  New vehicles in general seem to be highly inflated in cost. Used cars that are maybe 2 years old can be bought for much less having the same design and options for the most part. Heard on the news that the averaged savings, buying used verses new knocks off $14,000.  Also heard used car sales are growing and faster then the new cars and have surpassed new car sales.......DAH!

 

My 2014 Chevy Equinox with only 16,000 mile on it we bought this year cost about half of the new cost when we include the trade in of a 2010 VW Tiquan,.  our purchase cost ended up at

$ 8,000 for the Equinox. The Equinox is averaging 30 Miles Per Gallon on regular gas.

 

Back Up Camera kits can be bought for $30. You pull your Rear Backup Light out to wire power to the Camera so when you put the car in reverse it turns on the Monitor and Camera. 

Easy to install but if you need a shop to do it for you figure $ 50 for Labor. 

 

I don't like the newer Pick Up Trucks. Too much glitter, ugly and to me they are too BIG in size compared to 4 or 5 years ago.  What happened? 

 

 

Edited April 29, 2018 by Doug Novak (see edit history)

[zipdang]

I'll need to replace my '97 Ranger (280,000 miles, original clutch, just recently had my first rusted through spot) and there isn't anything comparable out there now. Guess I'll just find a less-used Ranger when the time comes. I know they're planning on reintroducing but I'll bet they won't be as compact as my current model and cost many times more.

[charlier]

On 4/28/2018 at 9:10 AM, Wheelmang said:

All that diesel/gas tax in PA and the roads that I need to use (I have tried them all) to get to Mass are so bad I refuse to haul my camper through there anymore. Makes me wonder what they are using the income on. The last time I tried the pounding shook a lens cover over the side of the camper. It always shakes open the kitchen drawers and in some cases has bounced clothes off the hangers in the closet. Done with PA!

 

 

PA has been redirecting the diesel/gas tax money away from roads to fund the PA State Police, Mass transit and other things for YEARS and roads and bridges have suffered. The PA Turnpike is also required by law to give a portion of it's toll funding to non turnpike agencies to fund them. That also leaves them short for turnpike maintenance and repair. Until we can get rid of (ie vote out) just about EVERY politician in the PA state legislature things are not going to change. 

[Wheelmang]

On 4/29/2018 at 8:07 PM, charlier said:

 

PA has been redirecting the diesel/gas tax money away from roads to fund the PA State Police, Mass transit and other things for YEARS and roads and bridges have suffered. The PA Turnpike is also required by law to give a portion of it's toll funding to non turnpike agencies to fund them. That also leaves them short for turnpike maintenance and repair. Until we can get rid of (ie vote out) just about EVERY politician in the PA state legislature things are not going to change. 

It just results in lost revenue. There are ways to bypass almost all of PA. I am not the only one avoiding the state. Maybe a copy of this correspondence should be sent to the ones who are trying to keep their jobs next November.

[cheezestaak2000]

calling a cheaper to build 4 door hatchback a "crossover" is the perfect way to make a buck off a dumbed down america.

[Doug Novak]

9 hours ago, Wheelmang said:

It just results in lost revenue. There are ways to bypass almost all of PA. I am not the only one avoiding the state. Maybe a copy of this correspondence should be sent to the ones who are trying to keep their jobs next November.

 

I live in South Central Pa. Near the Mason Dixon Line. Pa. gas is 30 cents per gallon more then Maryland due to a Pa. Tax on Gasoline. I buy my gas in Maryland. So if you are traveling in Pa. fill your tank before you come through. On a side note we love where we live, moved up here from Maryland 14 years ago and will never leave this area. Plus we're 45 minutes from Hershey so no hotel required during the Fall Meet.

[Frantz]

On 4/29/2018 at 4:27 PM, Doug Novak said:

Jumping in late but here's my 2 cents worth.  New vehicles in general seem to be highly inflated in cost. Used cars that are maybe 2 years old can be bought for much less having the same design and options for the most part. Heard on the news that the averaged savings, buying used verses new knocks off $14,000.  Also heard used car sales are growing and faster then the new cars and have surpassed new car sales.......DAH!

I don't see that as always being the case, or even enough to consider it sound advice. The avg new car price is $30k. The 3 year residual is generally about 50% for a domestic (IDK the import market). So how can you save $14k buying used on avg, unless everyone is paying full sticker and not getting rebates? I just helped my friend lease a Fusion last week and get got almost $9k between rebates and discount off a $30,500 car (Hybrid SE). I don't think folks are paying full sticker for the other domestics, and I'm sure the imports have to take something off, or else why wouldn't you buy a Ford and take advantage of the savings (FWIW buying the car rebates were $2300 lower than leasing last week, still a significant percentage discount). Now if you are buying 6-8 year old cars that can be a different story. This is when cars sorta lose their value and have a higher utility value than retail value, but the late model buying craze is being driven by lease turn ins and the factories flooding the market with them. It's been a known coming for some time since leasing started really picking up a few years ago. I think folks who buy used cars as an old habit should at least shop for new ones and see. There are cars that depreciate like a rock, but it's for a reason of quality or they are unpopular, sound desirable vehicles tend to sell for used close to what new ones do and the mile depreciation doesn't always make a whole lot of sense. Used trucks sometimes sell for more than new ones optioned the same, I've seen it happen.

Of course all this goes out the window if you're talking private party sales, but that's a whole other risks and cost benefit analysis you have to go through!

[Bleach]

Eight years ago I bought my 01 Crown Vic with 162K miles for $2500. It looked and drove like a car with 50K miles. It still looks and drives great with over 210K miles. The only things other than routine oil and filter changes I needed to replace were the tires, idler arm, IAC valve and plugs with the coils. It's been very dependable.

[Dynaflash8]

On 4/27/2018 at 5:58 PM, mike6024 said:

Speaking of police cruisers, all law enforcement now seems to be going with SUV's, police, sheriff, etc. That is not to say literally all, without exception, but everywhere I look policing is being done in SUV's.

Yep, there goes more of your tax dollars for fancy SUV trucks for police.  Down south most of the police are using Dodge Chargers since the big Fords have disappeared.  I hope everybody has noticed how the auto industry has steering the public (especially the younger public who never experience real cars) away from cars by offering mostly only 4-door sedans with no pretty colors or pretty color combinations.  Meanwhile they've offered more profitable pickup trucks in two and three-tone colors, more chrome, more choices in pretty interiors.  Like everything else the public gets scammed.  Talk about collusion.  Look at a Buick, Ford and Honda or Nissan side by side.  Can you quickly tell the difference?  Nice, good looking cars didn't even survive our parents lifespan.  Those of us who are seniors have lived to see autos shrink up to junk and our kids have never seen real automobiles.

[Buffalowed Bill]

Talk about the extra add on's that some new car makers have incorporated, made me laugh. Last year we rented an Impala, Premiere. After driving it for a week  i got so I really liked it. Early on there was some doubt, when we were on a narrow two lane road, so narrow that there was no center line. Almost immediately this thing started beep at me, at the same time something on the dash began flashing. Holly c..... what's going on!  Out came the owner's manual. It took several minutes to figure out that it was a detector to tell me that I was over the center line. As soon as I figured out how to turn that feature off, it was gone!

[Seldenguy]

Bill, I have had one of those gadgets that tells you stay on the center line for years, it's called a "wife". Sometimes I leave her home.    Bob

[Bleach]

Some cars have a way to turn on and off some features that take a little digging to find. Some can be found in owners manual other take searching through a shop manual. A lot of them require turning the ignition key to a certain position, pushing some of the A/C or radio buttons, clicking/unclicking the seat belts in a particular sequence and so on.

[Bleach]

3 minutes ago, Seldenguy said:

Bill, I have had one of those gadgets that tells you stay on the center line for years, it's called a "wife". Sometimes I leave her home.    Bob

 

It's also a really effective speed control device. Unfortunately some of the buttons they have when pushed can have some serious consequences.

[Dynaflash8]

Who the hell needs a device like that, especially when you have to spend hours in an oversized owners manual.  I spent six hours over two days trying to set up my 2017 Buick.  I hate thing.  Yet, I've got bruises on my arms from hitting the jutting out mirrors of the two cars parked in my garage.  I can turn in the mirrors on my Suburban by hitting a button.  Why can't these two cars automatically turn in the mirrors when I turn off the engine and turn them out again when I start the engine?  They have all sorts of worthless and unnecessary electrical junk I don't need but can't do the one thing I do need.  Every one of those is a total pain and you know where.  This Buick has 2800 miles on it since January because it's such a pain to drive it.  Last week I seriously thought about trading it on a Chrysler 300 with $10,000 difference.  Too much money and I don't like the knob to shift gears on the Chrysler.

[Doug Novak]

 

If I recall all the devices started with the car that in a pleasant voice would say "Your door is a jar".  I  can't remember the year or make but it change the relationship that I had with cars forever. Some times when alone on a long trip I talk to my car but it does not reply. ?

[Bloo]

10 minutes ago, Doug Novak said:

 

If I recall all the devices started with the car that in a pleasant voice would say "Your door is a jar".  I  can't remember the year or make but it change the relationship that I had with cars forever. Some times when alone on a long trip I talk to my car but it does not reply. ?

 

 

[zipdang]

The first "Your door is ajar." that I heard was in my supervisor's new Datsun 280z around 1982 or so.