First Gen Rivieras and Pricing

[lrlforfun]

OK Riviera People: I'm reviewing the ebay listings. Are these people dreaming? Yeah, these car's popularity is on the rise, sure....but 30, 40 and up? I remember that yummie  Claret 64 going for low 40s. When I say it's yummie it's yummie.  Better than 98% by a big margin too.   Mitch

[Pat Curran]

Hey Mitch, I have seen an incline for prices for first generation Riviera's as well.  They were low on the radar screen for a long time but not any more.  Of course, at the end of the day, there are people who are willing to pay more money for a nicely restored or original car.. As long as this is the case, the market will respond to whatever an individual is willing to pay.  There will always be dreamers out there who are asking a higher price to see if they can get it and sometimes they do.

The key is to educate the buyer and we can collectively do that.  There are some cars on the market that look great on the surface at high prices that were made to look pretty for a quick flip.  That is true for any collector car, not just Riviera's.  There is nothing wrong with a "driver quality" car and it is a good way to get into the hobby.  These are usually more realistically priced but there are some sellers that think they have more than what they actually do.  Supply and demand comes in to play as well.

The buyer needs to do their homework on any collector car before they plunk down their hard earned cash!

[Vin63]

Yeah, I have my limits for certain years, makes, and models, which is much lower, but if the market will bear it, more power to the sellers. I think one of the other factors that is having more of an influence on the increase in demand is the overseas markets. Several part time dealer acquaintances have shifted their business model to serve almost exclusively the Europe, Australia/NZ,  and Japan markets for classic US vehicles because the business has been growing substantially.

[Hazdaz]

If one Hollywood movie or one popular TV show comes out with a 1st gen Riv, then forget about it.  Prices are going to really skyrocket. 

 

If Buick finally wakes up and released a worthy next-gen Riv, then that too would really push prices way higher.  But its got to be a worthy successor - like an ATS/Camaro-based RWD car with unique styling.  Doesn't have to be retro, but it better be a showstopper.

[RivNut]

20 minutes ago, Hazdaz said:

If one Hollywood movie or one popular TV show comes out with a 1st gen Riv, then forget about it.  Prices are going to really skyrocket. 

 

If Buick finally wakes up and released a worthy next-gen Riv, then that too would really push prices way higher.  But its got to be a worthy successor - like an ATS/Camaro-based RWD car with unique styling.  Doesn't have to be retro, but it better be a showstopper.

Maybe it's time to re-release Road House.

[Pat Curran]

7 hours ago, RivNut said:

Maybe it's time to re-release Road House.

Do the headlights work?!

[Seafoam65]

                  When I go to car shows, young people will walk up to me and say.......that's the car from Road House! They don't know what kind of car it is, but they know it from that movie. What is needed for values is for the "Rock" to drive a 1,000 horsepower 65 Riviera in one of the

"Fast and Furious " movies.

Edited January 11, 2018 by Seafoam65 (see edit history)

[dr914]

I personally think that the first generation are way undervalued.  Look at the outrageous money the "cheaply built" muscle cars bring!  The Riv is a high quality build on the level of that era's Cadillac. (and virtually cost as much!)  Maybe people are finally recognizing that 

[60FlatTop]

Road house, that was a reality movie, I can tell by the standard pose.

 

I never get tired of looking at Rivieras, but Swayze and Elliot are a couple of never was cowboys you get tired of pretty quick. Nicholas Cage is another Riviera movie driver with a dopey style that makes one think he was abandoned at an animal shelter. I think the Riviera stands quite well on it's own, definitely in spite of Hollywood.

Bernie

[RivNut]

Nicholas Cage, Dennis Hopper, Lara Flynn Boyle - "Red Rock West"

 

[RivNut]

Perhaps the value of the boat tails would go up if more people were to view these videos

 

Red Rock West

 

 

Thunderbolt and Lightfoot

 

Test drive

 

 

 

[steelman]

You forgot "Crank" where he runs the 72 through the mall.

 

[DualQuadDave]

I think the first gen Riv's have a long way to go.  If you think about it, comparable cars of the time are mostly European sports cars(Jag, Bentley, Ferrari, etc.). That being said, a Riv is A fraction of price of most of those from that era and a far better driver, IMO.  Quality is pretty damn amazing on these cars, they really were hand built.  I have taken apart nearly every part of a first gen Riv and there is hardly any pre-assembled sections.  It is actually a way better built car than the Caddy's of same era.  I have worked on those, as well, and even though they have more "toys" on them, build quality/engineering was not as good.  When you work on both, you get the feeling the Caddy's were more flash than substance, Riv feels opposite.  I think the BOP cars of the 54-64 era were really the best of any ever made. 

[JZRIV]

Agree DualQuadDave - I had a 67 Eldorado and sold it after a couple years because I got so frustrated working on it as many things seemed complicated and a less robust design that what I had been accustomed to working on Rivs of same era. First real eye opener how different engineering was between GM divisions. For example think the electro cruise option was complicated on a 67 Riv? The Eldo was exponentially worse in all ways! Never believe  systems were designed by sister divisions.

 

Relative to values, I spent some time recently searching nationwide craigslist ads using just "Riviera" as keyword. Listing after listing I was in disbelief what the "asking" prices were for butchered cars I personally would consider having little value. Kept thinking that guy is in dreamland, this one must be on drugs, that one watched too many TV auction shows, etc , but eventually thought maybe I'm the one who is still living in the 90s as far as values go. I know asking prices are just that but when soooo many seem excessive I have to wonder if my perception is the one that is off in today's current market.

If the economy  continues to improve  that will drive values up even more because people will have more disposable income.  While some models have hit plateaus or even see a decline in value, Rivieras have realized a slower but consistently steady increase with no sign of changing anytime soon.

[60FlatTop]

People with discretionary money these days have more of it that in the past. The rich get richer. And if you have extra cars for toys you are not poor.

 

32 minutes ago, JZRIV said:

maybe I'm the one who is still living in the 90s as far as values go.

My Wife's maiden name was Christensen, any relation? She is still pricing stuff from the '70's.

 

Bernie

[Turbinator]

On 1/10/2018 at 4:00 PM, Pat Curran said:

Hey Mitch, I have seen an incline for prices for first generation Riviera's as well.  They were low on the radar screen for a long time but not any more.  Of course, at the end of the day, there are people who are willing to pay more money for a nicely restored or original car.. As long as this is the case, the market will respond to whatever an individual is willing to pay.  There will always be dreamers out there who are asking a higher price to see if they can get it and sometimes they do.

The key is to educate the buyer and we can collectively do that.  There are some cars on the market that look great on the surface at high prices that were made to look pretty for a quick flip.  That is true for any collector car, not just Riviera's.  There is nothing wrong with a "driver quality" car and it is a good way to get into the hobby.  These are usually more realistically priced but there are some sellers that think they have more than what they actually do.  Supply and demand comes in to play as well.

The buyer needs to do their homework on any collector car before they plunk down their hard earned cash!

Pat, everything you have written makes plenty of good sense. Knowing what repair/ maintenance has been deferred on a prospective collector car is critical in making a solid offer. I believe the Riv I bought was solid and a good car. My lesson(s) learned is buy only what you can inspect in person. The best I can say about how my Riv was represented from a dealer is it was almost fair. I believe I paid about $3k too much. Given the dollars I’ve put in the car For the maintenance and repair Ive invested I would say my Riv is most satisfactory for my liking.

ive kept receipts and a log book with pictures in case I sell the car I might get a good sale price. Knowledge of your business is critical if you are looking to make a sharp deal.

Red Riviera Bob

[Seafoam65]

                      Bob, generally speaking  only buying cars that you have personally inspected is very sound advice. In my case my 65 Riviera

popped up on Hemmings .com one morning and it looked so incredibly original and nice in the pictures that I immediately bought it sight unseen.

This is risky business and I knew it but I did have 90 very close-up pictures of the car that showed it was very straight appearing and the interior

was incredible. The interior led me to believe that the whole car had been well cared for it's entire life, so I pulled the trigger because the car was

1500 miles away, the price was ridiculously low for the apparent quality of the car, and I had been looking for a nice babied  low mileage one for many years.

What I could not tell from the pictures was how good the 40 year old lacquer paint job was up close, and if the car had any body filler in it anywhere. To my

eye the car looked like a very straight no bondo car in the pictures. When the car was delivered it was even nicer than I could have imagined. I pulled the trigger

because I seriously believed that somebody would have bought the car before I could get up there to look at it. I have a cardinal rule about not buying cars

without looking them over, but I broke my rule on this one and I'm glad I did.

Edited February 5, 2018 by Seafoam65 (see edit history)

[Turbinator]

11 hours ago, Seafoam65 said:

                      Bob, generally speaking  only buying cars that you have personally inspected is very sound advice. In my case my 65 Riviera

popped up on Hemmings .com one morning and it looked so incredibly original and nice in the pictures that I immediately bought it sight unseen.

This is risky business and I knew it but I did have 90 very close-up pictures of the car that showed it was very straight appearing and the interior

was incredible. The interior led me to believe that the whole car had been well cared for it's entire life, so I pulled the trigger because the car was

1500 miles away, the price was ridiculously low for the apparent quality of the car, and I had been looking for a nice babied  low mileage one for many years.

What I could not tell from the pictures was how good the 40 year old lacquer paint job was up close, and if the car had any body filler in it anywhere. To my

eye the car looked like a very straight no bondo car in the pictures. When the car was delivered it was even nicer than I could have imagined. I pulled the trigger

because I seriously believed that somebody would have bought the car before I could get up there to look at it. I have a cardinal rule about not buying cars

without looking them over, but I broke my rule on this one and I'm glad I did.

Me. Seafoam, it is great to,learn you were able to land a good car at a price that meets you happy. I bet the car was a private sale vs. a dealer. It would seem to me a private seller could possibly give a better representation of a vehicle than a dealer. I was in the same bot as you regarding the car being straight and no bondo. My car has matching matching numbers and the trim tags matches what I purchased. Initially no rust was in sight, but after the second year I began to notice rust bubbles along the rocker panels. The car is in the shop getting the bubbles cut out and replaced with metal. ReplacinG the alternator output harness along with alternator regulator and radiator were the first things replaced. Major tune up, complete brake job, new exhaust were items I could have lived with out I just did not feel like having a half baked vintage Riviera. The check off list of replaced items could go on, but you know the drill. If I ever buy another  vintage car you can be certain I’ll give it an inspection myself. Thank you for your positive input.

Red Riviera Bob

[jsgun]

I was considering selling mine, because money is tight. But then I realized I'd most likely never be able to afford one again. The current prices on CL are getting crazy and Ebay prices are out of control.

[jframe]

12 hours ago, Imperial62 said:

Asking prices are not selling prices.  The Me Too mentality where one Craigs Lister or ebayer sees an over-priced car, then we get piggybackers with too high prices. 

 

On the other hand, there is a surge in buyers for finished cars, ready to go cars, whether they are muscle cars or Rivieras.  Boomers will be more than happy to overpay for a car that is turn key.  

 

When I think that prices are going up and maybe this is the jackpot stage of Gen 1 ownership I remind myself - they made 100,000 Rivieras from 1963 to 1965.   These cars will never be a blue blood collector car.   

I think they WILL be a collector car to SOME extent; already are in a way, and depending on what part of the country you live in. I live in the South, and I bet I haven't seen a half a dozen in this part of the world in 40 years. As far as production, they built a crapload of 69 Camaros too, and they have become nicely collectible, even base models. I agree with you about Ebayers and other auctions though. Some of these asking prices on ANY of these vehicles and parts kinda makes me shake my head. I missed out on one of those purse hooks for a 1st Gen Riv on Ebay this past weekend because I flat REFUSED to pay more than 60 bucks for a piece of metal with a screw in it.

[RivNut]

When I think of 'collector car', I think of cars that sit in collection and are never, if rarely, driven. Usually part of a much larger collection.  

I think that for the most part, the first generation Rivieras are one or maybe one of two or there cars owned by people who still enjoy driving them fairly regularly.  Until we stop driving them, they'll never achieve what I described as 'collectible.'  Until you are in a position to buy one, then another, along with some otber fairly rare and desirable cars, have a large facility in which they just sit, don't drive them, and you employ a proffesional to maintain them, you're not a collector, you're a hobbyist. ? JMHO.

 

Ed

Edited February 6, 2018 by RivNut (see edit history)

[Paul from PA]

I recently sold a good driver quality 63. It was white with the custom black interior. Paint was shiny but had some imperfections. Chrome was driver quality with typical checking. The interior was nice and the only option was a wood steering wheel. No air or other power acc. Tires were good and the engine compartment was painted green instead of silver,. Solid body and good trunk. Car ran and drove nice. The guy I sold it to took it to Mecum in Florida and it brought $17, 600. A dealer in Michigan bought it and has it for sale. It sold at auction but someone else still thought there was money to be made. I was content with the price I sold it for which was far less than $17,600.  I have since replaced it with a "nicer" red 64

[Seafoam65]

                     There are loads of beater  or driver quality early Rivieras out there, primarily 63's and 64's.  Very nice 65's that aren't a restored GS are  hard to find at any price.

Look in Hemmings if you want to know how many of a given model are out there. Many months there are no 65's in Hemmings

at all, sometimes one is in the magazine for sale, usually no more than two. The vast majority of these need to be restored. Compare that to three pages of mint condition

mid year Corvettes for sale and two pages of  nice 69 Camaros for sale each month. Most of the restored base model 65 rivieras are highly modified if they are

nice. The stock ones for sale usually need darn near everything to be nice and reliable to drive. It took me six years to find my car and I was looking every day

for one that I liked. I passed on a few because they weren't a color combo that I liked, but mostly I passed  because they needed everything  or the restoration was done poorly and needed to be done over or they were highly modified, or their price was extremely high. I would hate to think that I ever had to try and find

a replacement for mine if something happened to it. 

 

[arnulfo de l.a.]

Bought mine  on ebay in 2004 from a man in montana. I spoke to him over the phone prior to bidding and got a gut feeling that he was a straight shooter. He was , and i would imagine still is. the car was exactly as he descibed. I paid 7000 for a unrestored originally burgandy mist ( got a cheap earl shibe red paint job early in its life) white interior 1965 gs. Odometer read 45k. it was a gamble that paid off.....this time. 

[jframe]

18 hours ago, Seafoam65 said:

                     There are loads of beater  or driver quality early Rivieras out there, primarily 63's and 64's.  Very nice 65's that aren't a restored GS are  hard to find at any price.

Look in Hemmings if you want to know how many of a given model are out there. Many months there are no 65's in Hemmings

at all, sometimes one is in the magazine for sale, usually no more than two. The vast majority of these need to be restored. Compare that to three pages of mint condition

mid year Corvettes for sale and two pages of  nice 69 Camaros for sale each month. Most of the restored base model 65 rivieras are highly modified if they are

nice. The stock ones for sale usually need darn near everything to be nice and reliable to drive. It took me six years to find my car and I was looking every day

for one that I liked. I passed on a few because they weren't a color combo that I liked, but mostly I passed  because they needed everything  or the restoration was done poorly and needed to be done over or they were highly modified, or their price was extremely high. I would hate to think that I ever had to try and find

a replacement for mine if something happened to it. 

 

I am with you, Winston. I feel I got lucky to find a 60,000 mile unrestored car, even if I DID have to paint it all over the year after due to an accident. Now, it's all original except for wheels and repaint, lol. I think these 65's are a lot like old Smith and Wessons; you don't see many for sale because a lot of people don't want to give them up, either.