Terry Wiegand Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 (edited) I know that this might not fit the definition of an 'antique' automobile on here, but, I am at wit's end as to what to do. I need some good technical help. My wife has a 1993 Chevrolet Geo Metro Hatchback. We are the third owner of this little car and I grew up with the original owner who bought it brand new. The little car has been extremely well maintained and we have had it going on three years. This past August it needed new brakes on the rear. Took it in to have the brakes done and found out that both rear hubs/brake drums had to be replaced. This is a one piece hub/drum assembly. Put the new shoes on, pressed in new inner and outer hub bearings and we thought all was good. She put about 100 miles on the car and the bearings failed on the right hub. The shop replaced the bearings and that set failed in about 200 miles. The shop felt like we might have a bad spindle. The rear spindles on these cars were obseleted by GM years ago. Our local Chevrolet dealer checked their dealer network to see if anyone might have one on a shelf somewhere. No luck. We checked every salvage yard in the country - no luck. A couple of months ago one showed up on evilbay - I bought it. Changed the spindle out. Guess what - it chewed up another set of bearings. The shop replaced the hub thinking it might be the cause of the problem. Obtained the new drum/hub, pressed in another set of new bearings. You guys ain't gonna believe this - the 4th set of bearings failed in less than three miles. The shop pressed both hubs' bearings in the very same way. Pretty hard to mess something up like that. The driver side hub/drum runs absolutely perfect. GM specifies that the spindle nuts should be torqued to 74 foot/pounds for 1992 - 1994 Geo Metro models. I feel that we had a defective hub assembly from the get-go and that possibly it ruined the original spindle. Is there anyone out there who can shed some light on what could possibly be the problem? This little car runs just like a fine watch and she is getting between 59 and 62 miles per gallon of fuel. It is a three cylinder engine. These cars were basically a motorcycle engine in a small car body. It has 61 cubic inches and that is what my last Harley-Davidson was with just two cylinders. We need some good technical help here. Any questions or suggestions? Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas eMail - terrywiegand@prodigy.net Phone - (620) 665-7672 Edited December 17, 2017 by Terry Wiegand GRAMMAR (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 Well, the 2018 models are out, so your 93 now qualifies as an antique. As for your hubs and bearings, let's review. There was no problem with the bearings in the old hubs. Your problems started when the new hubs and bearings were installed. Since the originals had no problems, the odds of this being a bent spindle are somewhere between slim and none - a bent spindle would have caused a problem with the old hubs and bearings. The only thing that's changed are the new hubs and bearings or the installation process. Look there for the cause. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlLaFong Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 Is there supposed to be a spacer between the two sets of bearings? 74 ft/lbs is a lot of torque. I doubt any bearing would live long under that much pressure without a spacer 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Harmatuk Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 (edited) Have another shop work on it. Leave the press alone and seat the race and bearing the old fashion way. Some one doesn't know how to use calipers either. All you're talking about is a shaft, bearing and a hub. Yes. Ive seen / put on 3 bad, new / rebuilt, alternators. I guarantee that they are pressing the bearing in the hub with / by /using the inner race. A No no for a tapered roller bearing. Good luck. I feel your pain. Bill H AND. This car is front wheel drive?? So the rear does nothing except rotate. Find another mechanic. Edited December 17, 2017 by Bill Harmatuk (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted December 17, 2017 Author Share Posted December 17, 2017 Bill, The rear inner and outer bearings are ball type bearings. I understand what you said about the way a bearing is pressed in. However, the guy did it correctly. I stood right there and watched it being done. John, I am not aware that there was a spacer between the bearings. Can anyone comment about that? There is a slight taper to the spindle shaft between the inner and outer bearings cones. I'm listening guys. Thank you so far. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 (edited) There is a spacer! There has to be. Somebody must have lost it. I have one of these (a 91) with a bunch of miles on it. I changed a rear wheel bearing, but probably it was 15 or 20 years ago. I can't even remember if it was on my Metro or another one. The idea of torquing a bearing that tight was fairly new at the time. Many other cars from that time have the same setup. The idea here is that if you are going to torque the nut to 74 foot pounds, the stackup of parts is setting the bearing preload. it HAS to be that way. My advice? If you can't find parts anywhere local (pick n' pull?), try to buy a used rear drum from someone on geometroforum. A junk one ought to be real cheap and would do fine if you only need the spacer. As others mentioned, you should find another shop and cut your losses. If you strike out, PM me. These parts would not be impossible out here in WA, particularly if you aren't in a big hurry. Edited December 18, 2017 by Bloo (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 1 hour ago, mike6024 said: So is a Geo Prizm the same thing? Here is the diagram if it is - Chevrolet Prizm FYI, he's talking about the REAR drums, hubs, and bearings, not the front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike6024 Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 (edited) OK I misread it. You can delete that garbage to clean up the thread. Sorry. When I see "spindle" I tend to think front wheel. Edited December 17, 2017 by mike6024 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 This would be the correct diagram. Note spacer (item 5). Note also that the Metro is a Suzuki. Parts are all over ebay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted December 17, 2017 Author Share Posted December 17, 2017 Thanks Joe. Yes, indeed I am dealing with the rear hubs on this little car. And Mike, the problem might have been solved because there is/was no spacer between the inner and outer bearings. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 Just now, Terry Wiegand said: the problem might have been solved because there is/was no spacer between the inner and outer bearings. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas Which would mean that the shop is liable for all this work because they screwed up originally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted December 17, 2017 Author Share Posted December 17, 2017 Joe, can you give me a part number for the spacer identified as #5. Thank you. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 Terry, I know nothing about the subject but a Google Search found this that might be helpful for you to read, http://geometroforum.com/topic/3212647/1/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted December 17, 2017 Author Share Posted December 17, 2017 Matt, I don't want to speak too early here, but I think I might have found out what the problem is - NO SPACER between the bearings. You guys have been fantastic help on here. I will keep you posted as to how this plays out. And by the way, we haven't been charged anything except for the new hubs/drums and the original set of bearings. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 (edited) A Prism part will not work. Metro is Suzuki, Prism is Toyota. Edited December 17, 2017 by Bloo (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank DuVal Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 Yep, Prism is the new name for Nova! Well, that was the news back in 1989! Built by NUMMI in California alongside Corollas. Geo Metro could be had with factory turbo, the Sprint model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 The GM NUMMI plant is now the Tesla plant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordrodsteven Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 (edited) for the spacer try P/N 96051354 or 30001592. I got this information at wholesalegmpartsonline. There is a set (2 pcs - left & right?) on E-bay for $23.00 right now. https://www.wholesalegmpartsonline.com/showAssembly.aspx?ukey_assembly=390794&ukey_make=1025 Edited December 18, 2017 by fordrodsteven (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 42 minutes ago, fordrodsteven said: for the spacer try P/N 96051354 or 30001592. I got this information at wholesalegmpartsonline. There is a set (2 pcs - left & right?) on E-bay for $23.00 right now. https://www.wholesalegmpartsonline.com/showAssembly.aspx?ukey_assembly=390794&ukey_make=1025 The set on ebay also shows the Suzuki part number of 09180-21001 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 Here ya go. Suzukicarparts.com has the spacers brand new for $7.04 each - better deal than the ebay auction. https://suzukicarparts.com/parts/1992/Suzuki/Swift/index.cfm?action=partDetail§ion=REAR SUSPENSION&group=REAR SUSPENSION&subgroup=BRAKE COMPONENTS&component=Wheel bearing spacer&partnumber=0918021001&vehicleid=9189&siteid=214820 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted December 18, 2017 Author Share Posted December 18, 2017 Joe, thank you very much for the help. It looks like we will be able to get her little Geo back on the road in no time. Thank you to all of you guys who responded to my posting. This shows what the old car hobby is all about - helping each other in a time of need. Merry Christmas from All of us out here in Kansas to each and every one of you and A Happy New Year goes along with it too. Terry and Barbara Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobg1951chevy Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 The helpfulness to a member in trouble was great ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 6 hours ago, Larry Schramm said: The GM NUMMI plant is now the Tesla plant. Yes. No Metros ever came out of there, however. The lions share of Metros were built at CAMI Automotive in Canada. Convertibles (and a very few closed cars) came from Japan. 6 hours ago, Frank DuVal said: Geo Metro could be had with factory turbo, the Sprint model. Only in Canada! They called it a Chevrolet Sprint Turbo, or a Pontiac Firefly Turbo. The old pre-89 Chevrolet Sprint was available in the USA with a turbo. Those are related cars, just the previous generation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragtop4two Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 I also had a 93 geo metro hatchback and it was a great car. I got a Pontiac firefly convert able after that which also was a great car. One thing I had a problem with on the convert able was windshields, I had to replace 2 of them because of stone chips cracking them. What I found out was the hatchback and convert able windshields were the same, geo metro, Pontiac firefly and Suzuki swift. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RansomEli Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 Terry, You are not alone. Google "geo metro wheel bearing failures" to find a bunch of links pertaining to your problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike6024 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 It sounds like many people are having problems, even when doing it "right" and using the spacer. Bearing seats on the replacement drum could be an issue. http://geometroforum.com/topic/2096138/1/ http://geometroforum.com/topic/2777671/1/ I've just replaced my right rear wheel bearings twice in one week. On both occasions they were quiet for a hundred miles or so and then began to groan. I chalked up the first failure to my installation technique but even with new, proper installation tools, the second set is also beginning to groan. Has anyone had this trouble? Right now, I have two theories: one, the shaft is bent, or two, the spacer between that holds the inner races apart is not the correct length to make the inner race separation the same as the outer race separation set by the new brake drums. If I had all my tools here, I could have measured the drums carefully before installation, but I had no reason to suspect a problem today when set #2 started groaning. The spacer that separates the inner races must be exactly as long as the separation between the outer races that is machined into the drums. I bought some drums from a discount vendor and they were not machined the same as the spacer, the result was inordinate thrust loads on the bearings due to the compression from torque on the axle nut. This causes high rolling friction and pre-mature bearing failure. The only way I know to avoid this problem is to use a micrometer to measure the spacer, and the distance between the bearing seats within the drum. Make sure they are the same. Take the drums back, or have someone good with a lathe correct them if they are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted December 25, 2017 Author Share Posted December 25, 2017 Little did I know when I started this by asking for some help with our little Chevrolet Geo that this would almost turn out as a major undertaking. GM in their infinite wisdom has obsoleted almost every part for these little cars and if you really need something you need to pray to the Lord that there just might be something out there. We got lucky and found two NOS GM rear wheel bearing spacers from an aftermarket parts supplier in California. Three days later they were in our mailbox. By mid-morning on Tuesday the little car will be back on the road with the rear wheel hub assemblies back to like new condition. Here are a couple of photos of the much needed spacers. Very simple parts, however, if a person doesn't have them they will have to resort to machining them from scratch. Will post some photos of the little car in question after we get it back home from the hospital. Thank you to all of you who helped getting us pointed in the right direction with this project. Terry Wiegand A COLD South Hutchinson, Kansas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 I saw a Pontiac Firefly once, think was Canadian only but parts for a Suzuki Swift should fit. Key is the 3 cyl motor. Once looked at a few Metros for a RV TOAD. Didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted December 26, 2017 Author Share Posted December 26, 2017 Even though these little cars were Suzuki from the start, the parts situation is the same as with GM. Never thought that I would be saying this, but, these little cars were pretty well designed and built. She gets from 58 to 60 MPG with a 61 cubic inch, 3-cylinder engine. That is better than what a person can get in a brand new econobox today. When a person stops and looks at it this way - these cars weren't much more than a motorcycle engine with an enclosed body around it. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 16 hours ago, Terry Wiegand said: GM in their infinite wisdom has obsoleted almost every part for these little cars The car is a quarter century old. I doubt any major auto manufacturer stocks parts for cars that old, especially parts that are not normal wear items. Sorry, but this isn't GM's fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAVES89 Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 (edited) This is the fight we go through every day as Reatta owners and have been for at least 10 years. We are losing the "beaters" quickly and many many parts are not supported by the parts houses either. We are constantly cross referencing parts from other GM vars to make them work. Our latest big issue was/is cradle bushings [now solved]. But we have a strong following and are working through it. Just like the help you recieved. Edited December 26, 2017 by DAVES89 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 Nothing new, my only "high production" car is the Jeep. Of the rest, one was a touch over 5k and the rest were not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted December 29, 2017 Author Share Posted December 29, 2017 (edited) Well, folks, the little bugger is back on the road and my boss is happier than three jaybirds in a mulberry patch. Photo as promised. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas Edited October 20, 2018 by Terry Wiegand SPELLING (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 Congrats and well done. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Glad you got it sorted out! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Glad it all ended okay. Happy New Year. I wonder what happened to the original spacers????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 7 hours ago, Tinindian said: Glad it all ended okay. Happy New Year. I wonder what happened to the original spacers????? Easy - the shop that replaced the bearings originally didn't know the details of this car and simply discarded them with the old bearings. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 1 hour ago, joe_padavano said: Easy - the shop that replaced the bearings originally didn't know the details of this car and simply discarded them with the old bearings. I would remove that shop from my Christmas card list! If I read the comments correctly, they messed up numerous times. Glad is is FIXED, Terry. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted October 20, 2018 Author Share Posted October 20, 2018 We gotta give ya all a quick update on the little '93 Chevy Geo that everyone helped us out on last December. The little Geo went to a new home about 10 miles down the road from us. It had over 276,000 miles on the clock and was still consistently getting 59 - 60 miles per gallon while running just like a fine little watch. BUT NOT TO WORRY!, the boss found another little Geo to replace that one. It is a 1996 Geo Metro Hatchback with a tad over 36,000 miles since new. This little car is literally brand new. I know the folks who bought it brand new off the lot here in Hutchinson. I have been a GM person all my life (Buick cars and Chevrolet trucks) but I have to admit that the little 3-Cylinder engine made a believer out of me as to its dependability and durability. I will post a photo or two when we get back home from our Fall vacation. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas or Doo Dah as we locals call it 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 There was a purple Metro convertible at Hershey this year. Too bad it wasn't a turbo! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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