1941 Buick Limited Limousine

[Buicknutty]

21 hours ago, Grant Z said:

Hi Keith, what ratio were in your Roadmaster, and what ratio have you moved to (and from which year)?

 

Here in Australia, we have many open spaces and I do long miles occasionally (our nearest interstate capital is 500 miles), so I'm very interested in having better mileage in my 41 Roadmaster (under full restoration now).

 Grant, mine had the 3.9's, which were the stock ones, and here most had this ratio, though 3.6's were optional. I got a set of 3.4's out of a '55 Century plus I have a recalibrated speedo so I know what speeds I'm going. I did drive it for a while with the 3.9's in it after I got it on the road and it wasn't horrible, but the 3.4's are better. Less engine noise too. It seems to be comfortable driving in the 65-70 MPH range for long distances as I've done that in it. Metric, that's 110 or a bit over.

 My self imposed speed limit is 75 MPH, or about 120 KPH, it's got lots more but I figure that is plenty fast enough.

 I also run wide white radials, Diamondbacks, and they help with the driving experience.

 

 I hope this helps.

Keith

[Grant Z]

3 hours ago, Buicknutty said:

 Grant, mine had the 3.9's, which were the stock ones, and here most had this ratio, though 3.6's were optional. I got a set of 3.4's out of a '55 Century plus I have a recalibrated speedo so I know what speeds I'm going. I did drive it for a while with the 3.9's in it after I got it on the road and it wasn't horrible, but the 3.4's are better. Less engine noise too. It seems to be comfortable driving in the 65-70 MPH range for long distances as I've done that in it. Metric, that's 110 or a bit over.

 My self imposed speed limit is 75 MPH, or about 120 KPH, it's got lots more but I figure that is plenty fast enough.

 I also run wide white radials, Diamondbacks, and they help with the driving experience.

 

 I hope this helps.

Keith

Hi Keith, many thanks for your prompt response. I'm not sure what ratio my car has yet but probably 3.9's. I'm getting closer to restoring the torque-tube & differential (plus the engine & trans) so will know soon. 3.4's sound excellent.

 

I can convert miles to kilometers no problem as have grown up with both. I would also like to use the Diamondback radials. I use Firestone non-radials on my model 44 which is fine but think the Diamondbacks would be a great choice as I've heard they are fabulous.

 

Thanks again Keith.

[Fox H.]

9 hours ago, Grant Z said:

Hi Keith, many thanks for your prompt response. I'm not sure what ratio my car has yet but probably 3.9's. I'm getting closer to restoring the torque-tube & differential (plus the engine & trans) so will know soon. 3.4's sound excellent.

 

I can convert miles to kilometers no problem as have grown up with both. I would also like to use the Diamondback radials. I use Firestone non-radials on my model 44 which is fine but think the Diamondbacks would be a great choice as I've heard they are fabulous.

 

Thanks again Keith.

I seem to remember the Series 40's and Series 50's have a ratio 4.10 or higher (4.56?) due to the smaller engine. Maybe someone else can confirm this.

[Matt Harwood]

21 minutes ago, Fox H. said:

I seem to remember the Series 40's and Series 50's have a ratio 4.10 or higher (4.56?) due to the smaller engine. Maybe someone else can confirm this.

 

Small series cars have either 3.90 (very rare), 4.10, or 4.44 gears.

[1939_Buick]

Getting off topic

 

Edited October 25, 2023 by 1939_Buick (see edit history)

[neil morse]

Based on the red paint mark and the way it behaves on the road, I believe my '41 Super has the optional 3.9 rear end.  However, I have not confirmed this by looking inside.

[drhach]

Does this mean 4.0 ratio?

[Shootey]

20 hours ago, neil morse said:

Based on the red paint mark and the way it behaves on the road, I believe my '41 Super has the optional 3.9 rear end.  However, I have not confirmed this by looking inside.

Neil, i don’t know if you’ve ever opened your diff cover but the ratio is clearly stamped on the end of the pinion gear. Mine is the 4.1 in my 1941 special wagon. it doesn’t say 4.1 but rather the number of teeth on each of the ring and the pinion. 

 

thom

[Shootey]

I think my last post oversimplified things. I think to view the end of the pinion one needs to remove the spacer, the shaft and the four small gears. And maybe even slide the axles out a bit. Even then, you need to get up close, wipe the grease off and have a bright light. Attached is a photo of a pinion. It is a 4.4 ratio for a 1941. I thought of using it on my car if the current pinion was bad. It turns out the current pinion was fine. I also learned that the 4.4 requires a  differential case different from the case for the 3.9 and 4.1. 

[neil morse]

1 hour ago, Shootey said:

Neil, i don’t know if you’ve ever opened your diff cover but the ratio is clearly stamped on the end of the pinion gear. Mine is the 4.1 in my 1941 special wagon. it doesn’t say 4.1 but rather the number of teeth on each of the ring and the pinion. 

 

thom

As I said, I haven't looked inside.  And based on your description of what's involved, I'm not about to try!  Maybe once you get your car on the road, we can take some comparison drives to see how my car compares with yours and see if we can detect a difference.

[kgreen]

On 10/26/2023 at 1:02 PM, drhach said:

Does this mean 4.0 ratio?

No.  See Shooteys response above and the photo below of a ring gear from my parts car showing the gear teath count confirming the 3.6 rear end:

 

 

[Bloo]

On 10/26/2023 at 12:51 PM, Shootey said:

I also learned that the 4.4 requires a  differential case different from the case for the 3.9 and 4.1. 

I didn't know that but I am not surprised. It is true of most rearend designs that when the ratio changes enough, the case has to change. The case in a differential is the spinning part the ring gear mounts to. The taller the gears get, the bigger the pinion gets. At some point the ring gear would be too thin if manufactured to fit, and so a case with the ring gear flange further away from the pinion is needed.

 

On 10/26/2023 at 1:05 PM, neil morse said:

As I said, I haven't looked inside.  And based on your description of what's involved, I'm not about to try!  Maybe once you get your car on the road, we can take some comparison drives to see how my car compares with yours and see if we can detect a difference.

If you want to know and you don't want to take it apart there is a way. The torque tube complicates things but it is not impossible. You need two people some tape, and maybe a small mirror Take all the spark plugs out and jack up one (only one) rear wheel. Put the transmission in high gear. The first guy rotates the tire slightly to take all the slop out of the gearing. I usually do this in the direction the wheel would be turning to drive forward. With the slack out of the gearing, the first guy puts a tape mark at the top of the tire. With the first guy still holding tire with the mark straight up, the second guy puts a tape mark on top of the harmonic balancer or front pulley.

 

The first guy, with the slack still taken up, slowly turns the tire two full turns while the second guy watches the balancer and counts turns. The number of full turns of the balancer plus the clock position of the mark on the balancer tell the story.

 

3 turns and stopped at about 7 or 8 o clock? 3.6-1. 3 turns and stopped somewhere around 10 or 11 o clock? 3.9-1. 4 turns and stopped at one or two o clock? 4.11-1. 4 turns and stopped at about 4 or 5 o clock? 4.44-1.

 

It's kind of a pain but I'd rather do it than take a rearend apart. In some cases you might need a mirror to see the stopping point. Of course you need to know what the possibilities are for the gear ratio, and we do in this case. It would still give you a pretty close guess even if you didn't know that.

 

Edited October 31, 2023 by Bloo (see edit history)

[EmTee]

You can also remove the distributor cap and watch as the position of the rotor changes.  Since the distributor turns at half the crankshaft speed, the rotor position essentially provides a vernier scale to provide a finer resolution readout of crankshaft position.

[Matt Harwood]

Took the Limited to the early Friday cars and coffee event this morning. Nice weather, albeit chilly at about 45 degrees. The Buick did NOT like the cold. Felt way down on power and a little stumbly off the line. Even after a 20 minute drive it still wasn't feeling like its old self. I have a 160 thermostat and temperatures on the gauge were about 150 so I'm not sure what's going on there. This car seems to prefer plenty of heat, so I may switch to a 180 thermostat to see if cold weather performance improves. I also got a few whiffs of stinky old gas (the stuff that's in there dates to perhaps a year ago) so that might be another factor. Even the shocks were stiff and the ride was a bit harsh. It seems that cold is not this car's forte.

 

Anyway, I wanted to take the Buick because I talked to a young guy last week who expressed an interest in pre-war cars. I was hoping he'd show up this week and I could take him for a ride, but I didn't see him. The Buick generated lots of positive comments and it was fun pointing out that this ancient car has dual carburetors and ram air induction, which was a source of amazement. Melanie snapped this photo while I was showing someone my exhaust header, so that's why the hood is open (sorry, AJ).

 

 

The rest of the cars were just OK, nothing amazing, but very good to see a lot of younger people enjoying their cars, whatever they might be. The hobby isn't dying, it's just changing and I think that's OK. These guys love their cars and driving enough to get up at 7AM on a Friday to go hang out and talk shop.

 

 

 

And a big, fat raspberry to the Peninsula Police Department, who had not one, not two, but THREE police cruisers setting up a dragnet outside the parking lot. I didn't see anyone do anything stupid, but one guy apparently got pulled over and ticketed for tinted windows. Peninsula is a town of 600 residents but generates more than $600,000 a year in traffic tickets--yeah, you can see where their efforts are focused.  Lame.

[DonMicheletti]

Mat,

Have you checked to see if the choke is working properly?

[Matt Harwood]

1 hour ago, DonMicheletti said:

Mat,

Have you checked to see if the choke is working properly?

 

Yep, the choke is working like it should. I spent a lot of time adjusting it. You may recall that my car not only has a custom exhaust header instead of manifolds (so the carburetors stay VERY cold without any mechanical connection to the exhaust) but that I also switched to two front carbs working together rather than the progressive factory setup. I did a lot of tweaking and tuning to get it to start and run correctly in warmer weather, including disabling the rear carburetor choke. I think today's chilly weather just didn't let any heat build up in the carburetors and they stayed a little fussy--temps were in the 150 range for most of my drive, which is just too cool. Combined with some old gas and I'm sure the problem is not a big deal. I've been thinking about a 180-degree thermostat for quite a while and it seems to like a little more heat for best performance. The cooling system obviously has excess capacity so running at 180 shouldn't compromise warm weather operation and might even improve things a bit.

 

Thanks for the thoughts, but I think it was just being a little grumpy, not telling me that it's in need of adjustments.

[JohnD1956]

It may just be the gas, especially if that last fill-up,back whenever, was an ethanol blend. 

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

 

 FWIW,  I found on my 1950 after replacing the exhaust and intake manifold with custom made ones that the intake , right under the carburetor/throttle body,  would ice up at certain temps and humidity.  I now have a coolant line running through the "plenum". This replaces the heat from the exhaust to the intake on the original.  That heat "exchanger" was there for a purpose, I guess.

    

 

  Ben

[Grant Z]

9 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

Took the Limited to the early Friday cars and coffee event this morning. Nice weather, albeit chilly at about 45 degrees. The Buick did NOT like the cold. Felt way down on power and a little stumbly off the line. Even after a 20 minute drive it still wasn't feeling like its old self. I have a 160 thermostat and temperatures on the gauge were about 150 so I'm not sure what's going on there. This car seems to prefer plenty of heat, so I may switch to a 180 thermostat to see if cold weather performance improves. I also got a few whiffs of stinky old gas (the stuff that's in there dates to perhaps a year ago) so that might be another factor. Even the shocks were stiff and the ride was a bit harsh. It seems that cold is not this car's forte.

 

Anyway, I wanted to take the Buick because I talked to a young guy last week who expressed an interest in pre-war cars. I was hoping he'd show up this week and I could take him for a ride, but I didn't see him. The Buick generated lots of positive comments and it was fun pointing out that this ancient car has dual carburetors and ram air induction, which was a source of amazement. Melanie snapped this photo while I was showing someone my exhaust header, so that's why the hood is open (sorry, AJ).

 

The rest of the cars were just OK, nothing amazing, but very good to see a lot of younger people enjoying their cars, whatever they might be. The hobby isn't dying, it's just changing and I think that's OK. These guys love their cars and driving enough to get up at 7AM on a Friday to go hang out and talk shop.

 

And a big, fat raspberry to the Peninsula Police Department, who had not one, not two, but THREE police cruisers setting up a dragnet outside the parking lot. I didn't see anyone do anything stupid, but one guy apparently got pulled over and ticketed for tinted windows. Peninsula is a town of 600 residents but generates more than $600,000 a year in traffic tickets--yeah, you can see where their efforts are focused.  Lame.

Good to see your Limited out at a local gathering. I do lots of that with my '41 Special coupe. Mixing with the young guys or others with different era cars gives everyone an appreciation of each other and shows us how the hobby is changing - as you say "the hobby isn't dying, it's just changing". Nothing stays the same, and there is no point in trying to make carbon-copies of ourselves.

 

I hope you can get the issues sorted for more cold driving.

 

I was out on my bicycle for a ride is the same temperature (possibly colder) this morning. Stopping into my favourite coffee shop to thaw out my fingers & toes was great.

 

A real shame about the activities of your police department. That is not 'serving the community'.

 

I look forward to meeting you at the National Meet (just 39 days, but who's counting).

[neil morse]

On 5/31/2024 at 10:53 AM, Matt Harwood said:

I've been thinking about a 180-degree thermostat for quite a while and it seems to like a little more heat for best performance. The cooling system obviously has excess capacity so running at 180 shouldn't compromise warm weather operation and might even improve things a bit.

I have a 180-degree thermostat in my Super, and it seems very happy running consistently between 180 and 185.

[Buicknutty]

 Nice to see the big girl out again Matt!

I also agree with you that the hobby isn't dying though it is changing. I also a member of a non GM sports car club (Datsun/Nissan Z cars) and there are quite a few younger people who come out to the many activities. By people, I mean men and women, from young to old and most of the women also drive a stick version too.