Might be going to look at a 1916 Cadillac what to expect?

[auburnseeker]

I found a car that pretty much predates my motoring expertise.  I stumbled across a 1916 Cadillac.  I've had 1930 and newer cars so I'm not at all familiar with the entire workings of earlier autos.  Is there any things I should look for mechanically that are known problems on these.  It supposably runs and drives well.   It's not entirely stock bodywise so I don't need to worry too much about the authenticity of the cosmetics.  I just don't want to buy a problem that will be hard or impossible to find parts for or fix. 

[F&J]

22 minutes ago, auburnseeker said:

pretty much predates my motoring expertise.

Just a comment on being OUT of your experience level  , one member here brought me quite a few extremely "out of my level" autos going back to 06, 07, 12, etc...I never feared the work that might be needed to get them to run and drive after in some cases, not ever run since pre=WW2..   Trust me, if you are a "typical experience" vintage car "wrench" it is a lot of fun!

 

I do not know what to look for in particular in every case.

26 minutes ago, auburnseeker said:

 It supposably runs and drives well.

 BUT....^^^ that is the most import thing that says to ME?  Buy it.!!

 

26 minutes ago, auburnseeker said:

 I just don't want to buy a problem that will be hard or impossible to find parts for or fix. 

and..^^^^^ fear NOT!...this simply is a non issue to "me" when that member says: " I am bringing up the 04 whatzit"...I know how simple these parts are in a basic sense, and if you know a major casting or something like that is NOT smashed, and it does "run and drive well" the rest is not an issue at all.  Sounds like a fun car if you were to ask me!  I sure see a lot of very early prewars with OLD body mods...it's surely adds so much more interest to me than a "correct car" even though I LOVE those too!

[tomcarnut]

These are great tour cars with a V8 but a 1916 is one year too new for HCCA national tours or AACA Reliability or Snappers. The Caddys of this era were used in WW1 by the US so great for WW1 events like the Dawn Patrol Rondevous's every two years at Wright Paterson Air Force Museum in Dayton, Ohio.  A friend of mine has 1915 he just drove last week on a Snappers Tour in Indiana. He toured last year with no issues but had some distributor issues this year that was solved on the tour with daily cleaning of carbon build up. As far a parts, the ONLY car of this era that has any parts made is a Model T Ford. Any mechanical parts for a Caddy or any other non Ford of the is era if not found by chance or by networking with other owners have to be made. I have 1912 Buick that had a broken ring and pinion along with several other parts in the rear end. The ring and pinion cost $2200 and that was the cheap part of the project.

 

Tom Muth

Cincinnati, Ohio

[F&J]

51 minutes ago, auburnseeker said:

hard or impossible to find parts for or fix

Can I add something very important to build your confidence on any early car, including brass, or earlier?...

 

My "aaca Client", with the cars....He does do some repairs but sends others to me.  One was a 06 auto, DOA as a museum piece since mid 40s.  I ended up nereding to "do rings".  He is a MASTER at sourcing info,... parts swapping from modern parts, or where to find or fix existing parts.

 

He found out that the rings could be had from a Model T perhaps, but said they would look different...which....was true!

 

Then I found a broken "cam follower", he got back to me at some point by saying a lifter from a 1950s Ford Y-block V8 will work if you grind the top a bit to get proper valve lash setting... I regret to this day that I sternly said, NO way!  But as I could not find a google pic of that lifter, I called a friend that runs an auto engine shop to ask what those look like...He told me, and then I knew my AACA client was RIGHT again!!  I will never doubt what he sources again, like on the Cord that is coming here in August!

6 minutes ago, tomcarnut said:

. As far a parts, the ONLY car of this era that has any parts made is a Model T Ford. Any mechanical parts for a Caddy or any other non Ford of the is era if not found by chance or by networking with other owners have to be made.

^^^^ SEE !  Tom says/thinks the exact same as my client!!!  I think/assume Tom may also know that some existing newer parts can be altered?

[JV Puleo]

W.O. Bentley had one of the early V8 Cadillacs and said he enjoyed driving it up to the RR plant in Derby, during WWI, where it seriously exasperated the management because it was quieter than a Silver Ghost. They were rugged cars... needless to say, as time went on there were improvements but that is the case with nearly all mechanical devices. Quite a lot of them were sold so finding the odd part that can't be readily made may be inconvenient but isn't impossible.

 

I'll second F&J's comment about simplicity. As a general rule of thumb, the earlier it is, the simpler it is. My first old car was a 1926/27 314 Cadillac, bought when I was 19. My tool kit, at the time, consisted of a Craftsman 3/8 ratchet set and some open end wrenches my dad bought when he got married. I kept it on the road for two years and sold it on to buy a dismantled 1929 RR so, for anyone with basic skills and a mechanical bent, it shouldn't be a problem. I've read enough of the OP's posts to believe he is more than qualified to keep a car like this up and running.

Edited June 15, 2017 by JV Puleo
better punctuation (see edit history)

[F&J]

20 minutes ago, tomcarnut said:

The ring and pinion cost $2200 and that was the cheap part of the project.

I am NOT trying to start a internet fight, but this NEEDS to be said, not to TOM, but to anyone dealing with these orphan-in-age early cars "in general speak" to those who do not get trapped in the "purist-only" BOX.

 

I have a 32 Nash, but smallest series of 7 that year.  Mine needed a new R&P ratio to allow my car to be "used" in todays traffic needs on just secondary roads, 55mph only,  NOT highway!  A member here who once ran a high end "period perfect" resto shop, once said on some lost thread...that his client's BIG series 32 Nash with worn out R&P set, was remade by a gear place, and the cost of the set alone, was 4 to $6k area!!!

 

My 32 baby Nash, now has a 65 Mustang gear carrier....I can now get any new ratio I choose to use, at a shipped price of $139 !!! and although the 3.80 set I just got in, never said the actual brand name in the Ebay ad... the inside box said: RICHMOND GEAR, which is a top name for race applications!

[tomcarnut]

Yes, one can modify their car with other cars parts like a friend that had a 1911 Overland his Dad put in a 26 Chevy rear end and others I know have put in a late model trannys. You can also drop a small block Chevy in them too but all of this is basically hot rodding. Not my bag or AACA's.  My 12 Buick project that included new axels and a few other things was estimated to be $5-8m but turned out to be more than double that because of other internal parts that had to be made. Had I known, I would have sold the car or found someone to put in a different rear end but did not find out till I was handed the bill. Basically if you want a tour ready driveable brass era/ pre 20s car that is AACA/ VMCCA/HCCA eligible and somewhat close to era mechanically, get ready for some big bills unless you are talking Ford. Then again, sometimes you can get lucky and have limited issues with cars of this era but the point is only Fords have affordable mass reproduced parts in this era of cars.

 

Tom Muth

Cincinnati, Ohio

[F&J]

43 minutes ago, tomcarnut said:

 My 12 Buick

Hi Tom, My client also brought his 12 Buick here, long dormant, sold by a son who kept(stored) his late Dads old car for years after he passed...?  then decided, Why?

 

I did get it sorted out, but it still has one rocker stand that was broken off decades ago...likely from a guy who tried to crank an old barn find, not knowing the valve was stuck... Then the rocker rewelded or brazed back together so crooked,, that A blind guy did it. 

 

And.....the lower ends of the water jackets on the jugs are still all cracked to heck... but I had no way to repair "correctly" so I used RTV for now???  it was then, his choice to stand back later, to decide if these items "need" further repairs??

 

[John_S_in_Penna]

2 hours ago, tomcarnut said:

These are great tour cars with a V8 but a 1916 is one year too new for HCCA national tours or AACA Reliability or Snappers. ...

 

It will be good for the hobby's sake if you

get a 1916 car back in active service--at shows,

on tours, and being used for general enjoyment.

 

Forget the artificial cut-off of the Horseless Carriage

Club.  You'll find that missing that cut-off makes this

car much more affordable.  Cars like this 1916 were

out in force and being enjoyed at AACA events in the 1950's

and 1960's, but now they're likely to be sitting forlornly and

undriven in the back of an older collector's garage.

 

Know what to expect, and go in with open eyes

as you're doing;  but do your part to resurrect this

forgotten part of our hobby!

Edited June 15, 2017 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[auburnseeker]

Part of the interest in this is because you never see something this old around here.  Being honest it was modified into a pickup years ago but looks very well done.  My use of it would be to use it as a light duty pickup to run errands around town and drop my daily shipping off at the post office.  Maybe go for a back roads drive on a Sunday if i get the hankering.   I honestly do very few car shows as my plate is too full.  I found that pickups give me the best of both worlds and tend to get used a little more often than anything else in the fleet. 

Looks like a lot of fun.  It's not incredibly expensive but then again I could buy a lot of 60's or even some decent 50's cars for the money being asked. 

Here is a photo of it. 

[auburnseeker]

I also have for some reason been thinking about an older car than the normal 30's and newer cars I mess with.  I just happened to stumble on this. 

I don't know why but for some reason it does atleast whisper to me a little.  More than the hundreds of other cars i see listed and in traders every day. 

Will these run atleast 45 down the road without pushing them too hard or being completely white knuckled trying to keep it under control?  

I've never owned or ridden in anything quite this old.  As a matter of fact,  except for one or two cars,  I have never ridden in any old cars that weren't mine. 

[John_S_in_Penna]

I can't speak for a 1916 specifically, but our region

recently ran an article by the owner of a 1918 Cadillac.

He has had that car for 78 years, having obtained it

for a daily driver in 1939 and driven it over 20,000 miles.

Most of his miles were put on it before World War II.

 

He said his typical driving speed was 50 m.p.h. in

that car, which was the prevalent highway speed at that time.

He has had it up to 65-70 m.p.h.--rather daringly and

foolishly, he'll now say.  It averaged 8 miles per gallon.

It's now a collector car which he still drives to occasional

car shows today.

 

How 1916 compares to 1918 I cannot say, but the bit

of history quoted above is an experience that few people today

remember.  Thank goodness for people whose knowledge

goes far, far back.  Such knowledge might help you.

Edited June 15, 2017 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[Mark Shaw]

Auburnseeker,

    I have a 24 Buick Master 6 "Cut Down" truck that is a kick to drive.  I took it to the Wednesday cruise-in last night at the Portland Intl. Raceway and (as always) got lots of attention.  I drove mine from Vancouver to Seattle a few years ago for the Buick National Meet and a friend drove it on the prewar After Tour.  You can haul lawn chairs, coolers. pop-up covers, etc. so you will be comfortable wherever you go.

[8E45E]

What to expect?

 

Absolutely NO help from your local new Caddy dealer!!

 

Craig

[auburnseeker]

14 minutes ago, 8E45E said:

What to expect?

 

Absolutely NO help from your local new Caddy dealer!!

 

Craig

Oh I don't know,  once they find the port for the scanner,  I'm sure they will be a big help. 

[capngrog]

Auburn Seeker and Mark Shaw,

When were your cars modified into pickup trucks?  I've read that many nice cars were modified into pickups during the years of the "Great" Depression.  I'm not sure how such vehicles would be received (judging-wise) by the AACA, but yours certainly are nice looking vehicles.

 

Cheers,

Grog

[hidden_hunter]

There is a great community for these caddy's that's on yahoo group

 

I've got a 1922 Type 61, there are some things that interchange but a lot of stuff doesn't and in many cases does not interchange even within the same model (e.g. early type 61 vs late type 61 - which throws you off if you have an early handbook)

 

We also have  a 26 buick and the packaging of the cadillac makes some of the work much more difficult in comparison.

 

I bought my Cadillac with a 'minor' popback through the carb, turns out that the rocker gear was totally smashed and I was running on about 5 1/2 cylinder... It did explain the very weird phenomenon where the drivers side block wasn't even heating up

[auburnseeker]

That's the thing I want to avoid.  I feel I will probably be paying close to a premium for it so I don't want to pay too much up front then still have to soak a ton of money into it and time I don't really have right now to fix something that isn't right and would have been easy to spot if I knew what to look for..  

 I know on Cord's the Cylinder heads and Blocks have issues with commonly cracking. (more so it seems than many other ones)   Of course tranny shifting issues with Cords as well. 

Does anyone know if there are any problems like that with these Caddy's . 

[edinmass]

I like the Caddy pick up. It's slick and looks decent. Problem is there is almost no market for cars in this category. I would own it in three seconds flat. Parts are simple......simply impossible. Biggest issue is if you develop a problem that costs a fair amount to fix. Then it's the old it's not worth the repair cost issue. If you think you can enjoy it as is for say ten thousand miles, and the price is very right......go for it. Recently I helped a local family to sell a 16 and 17 truck........there were NO offers in the ballpark the family was thinking. I told them to take the first offer thy got. There were none. This looks a bit better and is a bit more interesting. PM me if you want an opinion as to value. Ed

[cxgvd]

I drove a friends '24 Cadillac last Sunday, it has a nice ride and pretty to view but really who cares.  It is the HCCA and Snapper's who set the values and it must be pre '16. a well sorted '13 Cadillac is selling for two or three times as much as a '16.  Maybe not fair but it is what it is?  Notice I did not say to was worth two or three times as much, but alas, sells for a premium because of the club functions and a pre '16 is the cost of admission to that world.  A '16 Cadillac may seem like a good price, but a pre '13 is a proven investment, at least up until this date.

 

Gary, 1913 Buick owner for nearly 20 years.

[billorn]

9 hours ago, tomcarnut said:

These are great tour cars with a V8 but a 1916 is one year too new for HCCA national tours or AACA Reliability or Snappers. The Caddys of this era were used in WW1 by the US so great for WW1 events like the Dawn Patrol Rondevous's every two years at Wright Paterson Air Force Museum in Dayton, Ohio.  A friend of mine has 1915 he just drove last week on a Snappers Tour in Indiana. He toured last year with no issues but had some distributor issues this year that was solved on the tour with daily cleaning of carbon build up. As far a parts, the ONLY car of this era that has any parts made is a Model T Ford. Any mechanical parts for a Caddy or any other non Ford of the is era if not found by chance or by networking with other owners have to be made. I have 1912 Buick that had a broken ring and pinion along with several other parts in the rear end. The ring and pinion cost $2200 and that was the cheap part of the project.

 

Tom Muth

Cincinnati, Ohio

 

On the other hand I do believe that the 1916 Cadillac's are now classics with the classic car club. I have a friend with one and he says it is the most reliable car hes ever owned and he always knows that if he goes out in it he will get home. His family has owned the car for more than 50 years and it has never let them down once. Impressive.

[Rusty_OToole]

It is possible that a lot of classics were turned into pickup trucks or speedsters in the 50s and 60s, even the 70s because the body wood was rotten or full of termites and impossible to fix. It is also true that a lot of cars were cut down into trucks and auto tractors during WW2 because new trucks and tractors were not available.

[C Carl]

Very good points here. Yes they are extremely strong reliable cars. No Achilles Heel with these. And really , not being PRE-'16 saves you real money. And if HCCA touring does appeal to you , many chapters welcome younger cars through '32 to come play with them. My mid '20s Cadillacs have quite a bit in common with the earlier V8 Cads. But the engines are smoother , being a 90 degree 2 plane crankshaft inherently balanced V8. They also have 4 wheel brakes. Even at that , I enjoy the history of 90 and 100 year motoring , and drive the cars accordingly. I try to keep the old things under 40. That would have been very fast cruising back a century ago. Yes , I have been forced to drive them 50 - 60 on rare occasions if safety and traffic density and speed make it mandatory. Not for long , though. They really don't have the handling or brakes to deal with an emergency situation at that speed. I think if you need to drive at least 45 most of the time , this might not be for you. However : I do not know the level of preparation which this Cad has received.  Many years ago we had a CLC member here in the Seattle area , Ed LaBelle , who drove his 1920 on the freeway routinely at 55 - 60. Now I don't know what his gear ratio was , and Ed had done a last nut and bolt restoration on it. Blueprinted , balanced , fastener updates. He knew that car better than the company which made it. But , it did share the 3 1/8 X 5 1/8 Leland dimensions of all Cadillacs , 1915 - 1927. Powerful tractable engines , designed to give very good low end performance in top gear with that long stroke. If you could just spend a few more minutes en route by driving slower , do so. If safety requires keeping a fast pace every day , hmmmm , a Gear Vendors overdrive ? But I have never seen this done on such old Cads. Again , brakes and handling.

 

I have driven a "17 , and '18. Surprisingly stable , tracking straight and steady. Much more solid and tight than you would expect , never having driven such a big , heavy , old car. And the ride is rather good. I describe it as being a "Cadillac Ride". You will see what I mean. The brakes will be good enough for the speeds you ought to drive. From the old trucks (or whatever) you have had , are you thoroughly comfortable with double clutching ? Up and down ? The very best way to learn is on a full synchromesh trans. But we can get into that later if need be. I particularly enjoy double clutching the old crashboxes. Lazy up shifts , quick downshifts. And the single plane flat crankshaft ancient V8 harmonic vibration. You have heard about it. You will feel it in the torque band , around 2000 rpm. It is not the end of the world , and again , these are strong engines. If the engine was recently rebuilt , and you know all that was done , and done well , you might just keep on driving it. If it is unknown  , then drop the pan , clean everything if needed, and as per SOP , pull a couple rod caps , and the center main cap. It is the center main which has to work harder on these engines. If they look good , and are well within spec by plastigage , zip it up. Study the owners manual , pay attention to the lube requirements and frequency , ask yourself if you can dedicate the time to stay on top of all this. Do not let anyone convince you that any ol' oil is better than the best oil back then , so it doesn't matter what you slop it up with. WRONG ! You will have a little extra leeway with the best Synthetics on the market. We can get into that if you get this great looking old truck. Some guys have gone lax on their lubrication , broke their engine , falsely touted the car , and sold the stumbling sad thing under false pretenses for $10,000 more than it should have brought. You do not want a stuck valve on these cars. You might even want to put some straight 60 weight Synthetic racing oil in the "squirt gun" for the frequent needs of the manually lubricated valves. If you properly lubricate everything with Synthetic oil and grease , it will last another 100 years.

 

if you figure you can buy this Cad and make your life more fun (it will be) , and worse case sell it years down the line , will you have got your money's worth of fun ? You KNOW you will. This is a particularly good looking conversion. Color is great, and the sound of that V8 ! Yes , it sounds just like a real , legitimate, flathead V8 ! I have included a pic of a 1916 Cadillac V8 in very good shape , which I recently facilitated the sale of. $3000 , and I got to make 2 new friends.Oh , there are a few parts for these here and there. But I think our friend "Fearless Frank" has exactly the right take on this. Now most of us don't have the mechanical aptitude of Frank. But he has dead nailed it. Responding to "............runs and drives well" , Frank sums it up : "Buy it" !

 

it is very late , I have had an unusually busy day , so I will lay down the quill , wondering if we should talk price later ? How would I put it ? Over or under 20 ? Uh , by how much ? Man that looks good ! You have to consider how great everyone will consider that 100+ year old Cadillac to be . You will have a lot of explaining to do everywhere you go. And when you open the hood and show them this.........................................                                                                - Carl

 

Edited June 16, 2017 by C Carl
Forgot to sign my name (see edit history)

[C Carl]

I did just fwd this discussion to our yahoo group.   earlyV8cadillac-subscribe@yahoogroups.com  , or contact Mike Barnes to join. His email is   mbenseignant@gmail.com   - Carl

[John_S_in_Penna]

14 hours ago, edinmass said:

I like the Caddy pick up. It's slick and looks decent. Problem is there is almost no market for cars in this category....

 

Recently I helped a local family to sell a 16 and 17 truck........there were NO offers in the ballpark the family was thinking. I told them to take the first offer thy got. There were none.... 

 

Ed, I always appreciate your knowledgeable insights.

Do you mean that there is almost no market for this vehicle

because it has been changed into a truck?  If it was a

car of the 1916-up era, I know demand would be quite small,

but would it be saleable?

[edinmass]

It's a long story. Short answer is most truck guys want a much more drivable vehicle. Cost of parts and repairs can almost instantly run more than the car is worth. Very small market to sell to. The market is famous for being very budget minded. (Read cheap!) All that being said, I like it, and would own it, as it's kinda a strange vehicle, which I like. But I am familiar with them for forty years. Tires for that car could run four grand fast........tires, tubes, labor, ect. They are cool platforms but not for the less experienced collector. It will sell, the only question is at what price. I expect we will find out if he passes on it. My educated guess is the seller usually wants twice what the market will bring for such an auto. Someone will end up with a neat toy.

[motoringicons]

I like it a lot. It's really neat and will be loads of fun to drive and certainly an attention getter no matter where it is parked. It has a good look to it. But then again, I am a huge proponent brass and nickel era cars. I also like weird stuff!

That being said, it really does come down to what it needs and how much the seller is asking for it. Hopefully this is a car (truck) that has been actively maintained and used. If that is the case, take it for a long drive and see if this is something you really want to own. Like Ed says, parts are hard to find and you certainly don't want to pay for labor on something like this. If you do buy it, you really should expect to do your own labor. Nothing complicated about these-just basic nuts and bolts and time. I have driven a few nickel era Cadillacs and they are good solid cars. I believe they are undervalued considering their quality. If it makes sense-and you like it- GO FOR IT!

[auburnseeker]

The owner said he had a slow leak in one of the tires and had it off to fix it.  He would let me know when he got it back on so I could come over and see it and atleast go for a ride in it.  He was hoping to have it done by the weekend. 

This gives me a good cool down period to see if it's something that still excites me after a few days or if my attention drifts to something else.   Those tires are of a concern to me as I can't imagine they are real fresh. I imagine if there is no visible dry rot anywhere on them or between the tread they should be pretty good. I won't be touring with it,  just mostly around town and a few mile drive on a sunday.   The Caddy Lasalle club had a meet last Summer about 5-10 miles away so I might be inclined to take a drive down there if they do it again just to see the upper echelon look down their noses at me.   That would probably be about the extent of it.   

[Mark Shaw]

Grog,

    I was told that my PU was a classic "cut-down truck" by a mid-west farmer.  After the touring car was no longer presentable to take to church on Sundays,  it was "cut it down and converted into a truck that could earn it's keep on the farm".  It was restored somewhere in the 80's by a father & son who bought the truck and another parts car to restore their original family touring car.  They ended up with enough parts to restore both the touring car and the truck.  After the father passed, the son kept the car and sold the truck via Ebay. 

     I picked it up in Des Moines Iowa & hauled it to the Buick National Meet in Rochester MN.  I worked on it for three days on the show field with new tires, fluids, & battery so I could drive it to the BCA Prewar Division dinner on Friday night, and I drove it on the Prewar After-Tour for three more days...  It was quite an adventure!

  

Edited June 17, 2017 by Mark Shaw (see edit history)

[F&J]

10 hours ago, Mark Shaw said:

I worked on it for three days on the show field with new tires, fluids, & battery so I could drive it to the BCA Prewar Division dinner on Friday night, and I drove it on the Prewar After-Tour for three more days...  It was quite an adventure!

^^^ now that first part really is the cool part!  Wish I was there to see it come back together on a field..

[F&J]

On ‎6‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 0:58 PM, auburnseeker said:

Here is a photo of it. 

That is really cool.  I don't talk values really, nor like to look, but that is what is so very popular in Ct at what some people call "farm shows".  It is tractors, pop & steam engine guys, swapmeet, and driving whatever around, even walk behind tractors.  Half tracks too   They always let any prewar in for free, deluxe parking area too.  Nice laid back that way, as it never is some sort of "judging"  going on.  Just cool people liking old stuff.  

 

A shiny cut-down would be a really nice contrast to all the unrestored ones.

 

oh..and good FOOD

[auburnseeker]

There is actually a truck show probably 30 miles from here every year.  I guess it's pretty big.  I never attended because it conflicted with the Bennington VT car show.  Since they ran that into the ground from a really great event with wonderful cars and a nice swap meet to not even having it anymore,  I might have a free day to attend.  They probably wouldn't kick my Hudson Pickup out even if I don't get the Caddy.   The Caddy would be fun to drive around there though.   I could even load the simplicity in the back and take them both. 

[F&J]

I used to do the truck shows way back,  they were then mostly big trucks.  Most of the big trucks were like almost a few owned by each company that the owner had.  Nothing wrong with that at all, but the interest of the big ones made the real small ones sort of out of place

 

even if you don't buy this one, you might want to look for a farm show list for Ny..  Not sure what else for a search word, but those shows are really where that type of car/age seems really appreciated...and the Hudson definitely would be a huge hit there.  I have even seen a 29 Packard roadster show up here...and it really did fit in somehow, like a museum that has all sorts of stuff would fit in.

[C Carl]

Here is another "Cut down early V8 Cadillac truck" . "Yours" appears substantially more road ready. First , as a long time Early V8 Cadillac CLC member , I assure you no one , not anyone at a CLC function be they member or civilian , will look down their nose at this beautiful , truely unique V8 Cadillac. To the contrary. We have recently integrated a "Modified" class , and I expect you would draw a bigger crowd than "Cadzilla". I have never seen anything else like it. That being said : I don't smoke. My Dad did. Made him quite ill , and shortened his life. But back in the '50s , ciggies were not recognized for the dangerous addictive substance they are. I wanted to smoke. You know. Be like Dad ! And the sociological impetus of the times. Cool people smoking all around you , and all over T.V. As a kid , I hung around the 80 something year old guys on the block , and down at the gas station. They were my friends , and all smoked. They all said that if they could take a re run at life , they would do so without smoking. I quickly realized that I did not want regrets later. I have more than too many health problems as it is. My old friends saved my life. You will have regrets if you do not treat yourself to this super cool old V8 Cadillac. It has Y.O.U. written all over it .   - Carl

 

P.S. : I will come back and give you more info on driving ancient iron in general , since you do not have experience. For example , you have never driven such a clutch (actually a multi plate clutchpak without a clutch brake) , and some understanding is necessary for gracious operation. You make it easy to respond with proper specifics. By accurately stating your level of prior hands (or posteriors) - on exposure , it avoids the frustration of trying to second guess someone's needs. You , with all the experience you have accumulated, will be particularly fascinated by taking a step back one generation. And this reliable , extremely well engineered , powerful old , custom period perfect Cadillac is just the one for you. Ask yourself if you would get your money's worth if you enjoyed the experience , achieved the finesse of smoothly driving Nickel Era cars , and spent the "fun coupons" one does anyway in this hobby. And you might fall totally in love with this sweetheart - you are already slipping and stumbling - and wonder how you ever lived without her !   - CC

 

 

[edinmass]

Cut downs are common, and we're common till after the war. Simple math. A farmer buys a old very low mileage car and cuts it into what ever he needs. Less than ten cents on the dollar to new, often he can build what he needs himself, usually the cars had a large engine to haul/tow and do farm work. Many of the big brass cars (read that as the majority of them, like 70 percent) are old cut downs put back. Pierce Arrow and Cadillac seemed to suffer the most, possibly due to availability of parts in the pre war era. Interestingly there are supposedly 16 Pierce Arrow series 66 cars,  according to the experts. Only two or three were not cut downs or chassis that lost their entire body. New and partially rebuilt cars run 800k, if a known and verified original came up for sale figure 1.5 .  Tow truck conversions were also popular with the 20's and 30's touring ars and coupes. We have a 1930 Pierce large series Limo cut into a shop pick up truck done by and for an auto body shop out of Rochester NY. It was very well done, and the end of the body was carefully spliced on just behind the front doors, painted and pinstriped like a factory job. They did lead and wood work,at a high quaility. It was done in 1936, so figure the Limo was thirty to fifty bucks to start with, labor was 75 cents an hour flat rate.The employees probably did the job when things were slow on a time available basis. They most likely had the entire thing finished for less than 125 bucks, and had a eryncool and powerful truck for less than 20 percent of the cost of a new one. They reused the upholstery on the doors and headliner and put a vinyl on the seat. They had time and were talented back before the war. The post war cut down jobs were usually done from lack of skill and a rough car to start with. There is a small following for certified pre war cut down trucks, but they too bring little money. We plan on restoring ours back to 100 points.

Edited June 17, 2017 by edinmass (see edit history)

[edinmass]

2 minutes ago, edinmass said:

Cut downs are common, and we're common till after the war. Simple math. A farmer buys a old very low mileage car and cuts it into what ever he needs. Less than ten cents on the dollar to new, often he can build what he needs himself, usually the cars had a large engine to haul/tow and do farm work. Many of the big brass cars (read that as the majority of them, like 70 percent) are old cut downs put back. Pierce Arrow and Cadillac seemed to suffer the most, possibly due to availability of parts in the pre war era. Interestingly there are supposedly 16 Pierce Arrow series 66 cars,  according to the experts. Only two or three were not cut downs or chassis that lost their entire body. New and partially rebuilt cars run 800k, if a known and verified original came up for sale figure 1.5 .  Tow truck conversions were also popular with the 20's and 30's touring and coupes. We have a 1930 Pierce large series Limo cut into a shop pick up truck done by and for an auto body shop out of Rochester NY. It was very well done, and the end of the body was carefully spliced on just behind the front doors, painted and pinstriped like a factory job. They did lead and wood work,at a high quaility. It was done in 1936, so figure the Limo was thirty to fifty bucks to start with, labor was 75 cents an hour flat rate.The employees probably did the job when things were slow on a time available basis. They most likely had the entire thing finished for less than 125 bucks, and had a eryncool and powerful truck for less than 20 percent of the cost of a new one. They reused the upholstery on the doors and headliner and put a vinyl on the seat. They had time and were talented back before the war. The post war cut down jobs were usually done from lack of skill and a rough car to start with. There is a small following for certified pre war cut down trucks, but they too bring little money. We plan on restoring ours back to 100 points.

 

[auburnseeker]

That Pierce Arrow must be on slick looking truck.  I stumbled across a 1930 Cadillac shop/ tow truck,  that was probably done somewhat similar I think in Georgia but the ad on some obscure little trader was a month old and I got no response when I inquired into it.  THat was a month or so ago. 

Any pics of the Pierce arrow? 

[60FlatTop]

Still running them in Saranac Lake, New York, parked i n front of an antique shop.

[auburnseeker]

That PAckard looks like a lot of fun as well.  I think that was Hawkeye's They liquidated his collection at a well publicized auction I never heard about even in my old car community about 60 miles away.  I wonder who ended up with it?

[60FlatTop]

That was 2011. I did an audit up in Malone, left the lick off meeting and a team there and took a leisurely drive home "the long way". Shouldn't be hard to find the shop from the picture. I think there was an antique shop and a print shop next to each other. I bet there would be a lead.

 

We had a Cadillac tow truck and a welder's truck in our area during the 1970's. I think both were disassembled by well meaning budget restorers. They sort of vaporized.

 

Although that Packard was an open car, most I have seen had the sedan rear metal moved up to make the back of the cab. In the 1960's and '70's the "real" antique aficionados wouldn't even look at them unless it was a parts source for their much more valuable open car. We didn't have so many hot rods then so the purpose modified and closed cars were the cynical octogenarian's target  of abuse then.

 

I always had a soft spot for those re-purposed vehicles (maybe between the ears), but I thought they were neat. This old gal, with a big Ford TT rearend would have pulled some stumps in her day. Been sitting outside too long. I'm parting it out. If I didn't have the Alley Cat B, though...

Edited June 17, 2017 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)