countrytravler Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 (edited) http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2147617/Iter-Avto-The-antique-route-The-sat-nav-1930-used-map-scroll.html Edited March 27, 2017 by countrytravler (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 (edited) Whoever wrote the headline for that article is an idiot. Pretty hard to have "sat nav" three decades before the first satellite was put into orbit. Yeah, it may be a dash-mounted moving map, but it has nothing to do with Global Positioning Satellites. FYI, the predecessor to GPS satellites was a system called TRANSIT launched by the US Navy in the early 1960s. Edited March 27, 2017 by joe_padavano (see edit history) 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 1 hour ago, joe_padavano said: . Yeah, it may be a dash-mounted moving map, but it has nothing to do with Global Positioning Satellites. Agreed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_S_in_Penna Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 The article in the link keeps referring to the unit as the "Inter Avto." Given the nature of the product, I think its name is probably "Inter Auto," but with the type-style using a Roman U which looks like a V. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 (edited) I think that author was typing with one hand. Everyone knows the first GPS looked like this. I have one of those scrolling maps it anyone wants it for $40. Edited March 27, 2017 by 60FlatTop (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 Don't forget Loran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moskowitz Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 I think GPS is being used loosely. There is even a map system used on brass cars and we will get to see a car so equipped possibly at Auburn this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 8 minutes ago, Steve Moskowitz said: I think GPS is being used loosely. There is even a map system used on brass cars and we will get to see a car so equipped possibly at Auburn this year. The "S" still stands for "satellite". The whole point of GPS is that a network of satellites in precise orbits and with precise timing between them provide a global, all-weather, highly accurate positional reference. Calling anything not satellite-based "GPS" is like calling a four door car a "coupe". (Yeah, don't get me started on THAT... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JACK M Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 I learned something new. I always thought it was "global position system", So is it "global positioning satellite" ? (satellites) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_S_in_Penna Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 5 minutes ago, JACK M said: I learned something new. I always thought it was "global position system", So is it "global positioning satellite" ? (satellites) I've always heard, "Global Positioning System." But acronyms might be used in more than one way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 (edited) First there was the WWII LORAN, then LORAN-C, TRANSIT, & Omega which were radio navigation systems, then GPS with offset for civillians (remember driving down an Interstate and the dot was going down a field) but now removed. The major differences were accuracy, LORAN was lucky to get within 10 miles, Omega 4 miles. My first job after leaving GM was design of an Omega system. Edited March 27, 2017 by padgett (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moskowitz Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 http://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/2012/02/04/history/post-perspective/gps-1909.html This will exercise Joe even more! Doubt there were any satellites in 1909 either! This writer use GPS loosely as well and my only comment is that certain words, correctly or incorrectly are now used to indicate everything from kleenex (Kleenex) to xerox (Xerox). I guess maps are an anathema to younger writers today as they may have never used one! In any case the idea of a car navigation device is pretty old. I have seen this Jones device on a 1913 Locomobile and it is cool as can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hudsy Wudsy Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 (edited) The headline is, 'First ever built-in sat nav' from 1930. The author was trying to be cute by placing "sat nav" within quotation marks, but failed by also including the "First ever built-in" part within his quotation marks. Had he written, "First ever built-in 'sat nav' from 1930", it would have been more clear that he was using the term facetiously. Edited March 27, 2017 by Hudsy Wudsy (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike6024 Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 (edited) global positioning system uses ground stations as well as satellites. The GPS concept is based on time and the known position of specialized satellites. The satellites carry very stable atomic clocks that are synchronized with one another and to ground clocks. Any drift from true time maintained on the ground is corrected daily. The control segment is composed of: a master control station (MCS), an alternate master control station, four dedicated ground antennas, and six dedicated monitor stations. http://www.gps.gov/systems/gps/ Edited March 27, 2017 by mike6024 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Bond Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 Here is a link to an article about the Jones Live Map, which appeared in the brass era. I believe this is what Steve is referring to. Interesting device, and they do occasionally show up for sale at Hershey. While not really "GPS" it was an early effort to help motorists find their way. http://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/2012/02/04/history/post-perspective/gps-1909.html Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 23 minutes ago, mike6024 said: global positioning system uses ground stations as well as satellites. Every satellite requires at least one ground station for control of the satellites. The positional information comes from space, not from the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 1 hour ago, padgett said: First there was the WWII LORAN, then LORAN-C, TRANSIT, & Omega which were radio navigation systems, then GPS LORAN and LORAN-C were ground-based transmitters with range up to 1500 miles from the transmitter - that was a problem over vast expanses of ocean. When the Navy started to develop Polaris ballistic missile subs, they needed a way to accurately figure out where the sub was when you launched a missile - so it would end up accurately on target. That's why DARPA (then ARPA, actually) and Johns Hopkins developed the first TRANSIT satellites. TRANSIT was the first satellite-based nav system. The first experimental satellite was launched in 1960 and the system went fully operational in 1968. GPS was an improvement on TRANSIT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 Loran was still being used in the early 1980s with the last string of towers falling silent in 2000. Chinese were the last to decommissioned their Loran system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 The other day I posted that the main reason an article gets written is for the author's groceries. Here is the fodder generated by Nick Enoch, the byline: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/search.html?s=&authornamef=Nick+Enoch GPS is just another generic term like, oh, wiretap. The Dailymail is a news group. No one takes the word of the news literally, do they?. I have been watching the news for its comedic content for the last year or so. I, illiterally, get a lot more value. This is an example. Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 1 hour ago, 60FlatTop said: No one takes the word of the news literally, do they?. Sadly, much reporting is sloppy and full of errors. No, that's not intended to be a political statement nor intended to turn this into a political rant. As an aerospace engineer, I have first-hand knowledge about the space program - NASA, DoD, and commercial. I can say unequivocally that every single news article I've read or watched in the mainstream press (as opposed to the aerospace specialty press) has contained at least one major factual error. I catch these because I am intimately familiar with the subject matter. It does, however, always make me wonder how many other errors get published in other articles that I don't catch because I am not that familiar with the subject matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hidden_hunter Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 The Holden Hurricane concept of the 60's had a very interesting precursor to GPS as well, it used magnets in the road to tell where it was http://motor.history.sa.gov.au/events/2013/holden-hurricane and it looked cool in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 20 minutes ago, hidden_hunter said: The Holden Hurricane concept of the 60's had a very interesting precursor to GPS as well, it used magnets in the road to tell where it was http://motor.history.sa.gov.au/events/2013/holden-hurricane and it looked cool in the process. Magnets in the road were supposed to be the way we were going to get self-driving cars. The Hurricane does look cool, but it also looks a lot like the 1967, Corvair-powered Astro I (foreground in the second photo). The nose of the Astro I is clearly more like the 1968 Corvette. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 In line with aerospace, there are two major books on Edward Teller. I have them both. One is written by him, the other about him. I am still trying to figure out who the two people are. All the interests and experiences of our lives come together to create the hobbyist we are, as well as many other things that make us individuals. It is pretty hard to put on the old car guy hat and narrow your participation to car things only. Life is too entangled and the cars are a big part of the hobbyist's life. Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Bollman Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 I have a little GPS I've had it all my life It's better than the normal ones My GPS is my wife It gives me full instructions Especially how to drive "It's sixty k's an hour", it says "You're doing sixty five" It tells me when to stop and start And when to use the brake And tells me that it's never ever Safe to overtake It tells me when a light is red And when it goes to green It seems to know instinctively Just when to intervene It lists the vehicles just in front And all those to the rear And taking this into account It specifies my gear. I'm sure no other driver Has so helpful a device For when we leave and lock the car It still gives its advice. It fills me up with counseling Each journey's pretty fraught So why don't I exchange it And get a quieter sort? Ah well, you see, it cleans the house, Makes sure I'm properly fed, It washes all my shirts and things And - lets me have a shed. Despite all these advantages And my tendency to scoff, I do wish that once in a while I could turn the damned thing off. Then there is the cheap GPS 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 I know one of those, she announces every missed turn once past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 I'll just keep listening to Sammy Hagar singing "I can't drive 55" over and over. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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