GPS started in the 30s??

[countrytravler]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2147617/Iter-Avto-The-antique-route-The-sat-nav-1930-used-map-scroll.html

Edited March 27, 2017 by countrytravler (see edit history)

[joe_padavano]

Whoever wrote the headline for that article is an idiot.  Pretty hard to have "sat nav" three decades before the first satellite was put into orbit. Yeah, it may be a dash-mounted moving map, but it has nothing to do with Global Positioning Satellites. FYI, the predecessor to GPS satellites was a system called TRANSIT launched by the US Navy in the early 1960s.

Edited March 27, 2017 by joe_padavano (see edit history)

[8E45E]

1 hour ago, joe_padavano said:

. Yeah, it may be a dash-mounted moving map, but it has nothing to do with Global Positioning Satellites.

Agreed!

 

 

[John_S_in_Penna]

The article in the link keeps referring to the unit 

as the "Inter Avto."  Given the nature of the product,

I think its name is probably "Inter Auto," but with

the type-style using a Roman U which looks like a V.

[60FlatTop]

I think that author was typing with one hand.

 

Everyone knows the first GPS looked like this.

 

 

I have one of those scrolling maps it anyone wants it for $40.

Edited March 27, 2017 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

[Restorer32]

Don't forget Loran.

[Steve Moskowitz]

I think GPS is being used loosely.  There is even a map system used on brass cars and we will get to see a car so equipped possibly at Auburn this year.

[joe_padavano]

8 minutes ago, Steve Moskowitz said:

I think GPS is being used loosely.  There is even a map system used on brass cars and we will get to see a car so equipped possibly at Auburn this year.

 

The "S" still stands for "satellite". The whole point of GPS is that a network of satellites in precise orbits and with precise timing between them provide a global, all-weather, highly accurate positional reference.  Calling anything not satellite-based "GPS" is like calling a four door car a "coupe". (Yeah, don't get me started on THAT... )

[JACK M]

I learned something new.
I always thought it was "global position system", So is it "global positioning satellite" ? (satellites)

[John_S_in_Penna]

5 minutes ago, JACK M said:

I learned something new.
I always thought it was "global position system", So is it "global positioning satellite" ? (satellites)

 

I've always heard, "Global Positioning System."

But acronyms might be used in more than one way.

[padgett]

First there was the WWII  LORAN, then LORAN-C, TRANSIT, & Omega which were radio navigation systems, then GPS with offset for civillians (remember driving down an Interstate and the dot was going down a field) but now removed.

 

The major differences were accuracy, LORAN was lucky to get within 10 miles, Omega 4 miles.

 

My first job after leaving GM was design of an Omega system.

Edited March 27, 2017 by padgett (see edit history)

[Steve Moskowitz]

http://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/2012/02/04/history/post-perspective/gps-1909.html   This will exercise Joe even more!  Doubt there were any satellites in 1909 either!   This writer use GPS loosely as well and my only comment is that certain words, correctly or incorrectly are now used to indicate everything from kleenex (Kleenex) to xerox (Xerox).  I guess maps are an anathema to younger writers today as they may have never used one!  In any case the idea of a car navigation device is pretty old. I have seen this Jones device on a 1913 Locomobile and it is cool as can be.   

[Hudsy Wudsy]

The headline is, 'First ever built-in sat nav' from 1930. The author was trying to be cute by placing "sat nav" within quotation marks, but failed by also including the "First ever built-in" part within his quotation marks. Had he written, "First ever built-in 'sat nav' from 1930", it would have been more clear that he was using the term facetiously.

Edited March 27, 2017 by Hudsy Wudsy (see edit history)

[mike6024]

global positioning system uses ground stations as well as satellites.

 

The GPS concept is based on time and the known position of specialized satellites. The satellites carry very stable atomic clocks that are synchronized with one another and to ground clocks. Any drift from true time maintained on the ground is corrected daily.

 

The control segment is composed of:

a master control station (MCS),
an alternate master control station,
four dedicated ground antennas, and
six dedicated monitor stations.

 

http://www.gps.gov/systems/gps/

 

 

Edited March 27, 2017 by mike6024 (see edit history)

[Terry Bond]

Here is a link to an article about the Jones Live Map, which appeared in the brass era.  I believe this is what Steve is referring to.   Interesting device, and they do occasionally show up for sale at Hershey.  While not really "GPS" it was an early effort to help motorists find their way.

http://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/2012/02/04/history/post-perspective/gps-1909.html

 

Terry

[joe_padavano]

23 minutes ago, mike6024 said:

global positioning system uses ground stations as well as satellites.

 

 

Every satellite requires at least one ground station for control of the satellites.  The positional information comes from space, not from the ground.

[joe_padavano]

1 hour ago, padgett said:

First there was the WWII  LORAN, then LORAN-C, TRANSIT, & Omega which were radio navigation systems, then GPS

 

LORAN and LORAN-C were ground-based transmitters with range up to 1500 miles from the transmitter -  that was a problem over vast expanses of ocean. When the Navy started to develop Polaris ballistic missile subs, they needed a way to accurately figure out where the sub was when you launched a missile - so it would end up accurately on target.  That's why DARPA (then ARPA, actually) and Johns Hopkins developed the first TRANSIT satellites.  TRANSIT was the first satellite-based nav system.  The first experimental satellite was launched in 1960 and the system went fully operational in 1968.  GPS was an improvement on TRANSIT.

[Restorer32]

Loran was still being used in the early 1980s with the last string of towers falling silent in 2000. Chinese were the last to decommissioned their Loran system 

[60FlatTop]

The other day I posted that the main reason an article gets written is for the author's groceries.

 

Here is the fodder generated by Nick Enoch, the byline: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/search.html?s=&authornamef=Nick+Enoch

 

GPS is just another generic term like, oh, wiretap.

 

The Dailymail is a news group. No one takes the word of the news literally, do they?. I have been watching the news for its comedic content for the last year or so. I, illiterally, get a lot more value.

This is an example.

Bernie

[joe_padavano]

1 hour ago, 60FlatTop said:

 No one takes the word of the news literally, do they?.

 

Sadly, much reporting is sloppy and full of errors.  No, that's not intended to be a political statement nor intended to turn this into a political rant.  As an aerospace engineer, I have first-hand knowledge about the space program -  NASA, DoD, and commercial.  I can say unequivocally that every single news article I've read or watched in the mainstream press (as opposed to the aerospace specialty press) has contained at least one major factual error.  I catch these because I am intimately familiar with the subject matter.  It does, however, always make me wonder how many other errors get published in other articles that I don't catch because I am not that familiar with the subject matter.

[hidden_hunter]

The Holden Hurricane concept of the 60's had a very interesting precursor to GPS as well, it used magnets in the road to tell where it was

http://motor.history.sa.gov.au/events/2013/holden-hurricane

 

and it looked cool in the process.

[joe_padavano]

20 minutes ago, hidden_hunter said:

The Holden Hurricane concept of the 60's had a very interesting precursor to GPS as well, it used magnets in the road to tell where it was

http://motor.history.sa.gov.au/events/2013/holden-hurricane

 

and it looked cool in the process.

 

Magnets in the road were supposed to be the way we were going to get self-driving cars.

 

The Hurricane does look cool, but it also looks a lot like the 1967, Corvair-powered Astro I (foreground in the second photo). The nose of the Astro I is clearly more like the 1968 Corvette.

 

 

[60FlatTop]

In line with aerospace, there are two major books on Edward Teller. I have them both. One is written by him, the other about him. I am still trying to figure out who the two people are.

 

All the interests and experiences of our lives come together to create the hobbyist we are, as well as many other things that make us individuals. It is pretty hard to put on the old car guy hat and narrow your participation to car things only. Life is too entangled and the cars are a big part of the hobbyist's life.

Bernie

[Jim Bollman]

I have a little GPS 

I've had it all my life 

It's better than the normal ones 

My GPS is my wife 

 

It gives me full instructions 

Especially how to drive 

"It's sixty k's an hour", it says 

"You're doing sixty five" 

 

It tells me when to stop and start 

And when to use the brake 

And tells me that it's never ever 

Safe to overtake 

 

It tells me when a light is red 

And when it goes to green 

It seems to know instinctively 

Just when to intervene 

 

It lists the vehicles just in front 

And all those to the rear 

And taking this into account 

It specifies my gear. 

 

I'm sure no other driver 

Has so helpful a device 

For when we leave and lock the car 

It still gives its advice. 

 

It fills me up with counseling 

Each journey's pretty fraught 

So why don't I exchange it 

And get a quieter sort? 

 

Ah well, you see, it cleans the house, 

Makes sure I'm properly fed, 

It washes all my shirts and things 

And - lets me have a shed. 

 

Despite all these advantages 

And my tendency to scoff, 

I do wish that once in a while 

I could turn the damned thing off.

 

Then there is the cheap GPS

 

[padgett]

I know one of those, she announces every missed turn once past.

[8E45E]

I'll just keep listening to Sammy Hagar singing "I can't drive 55" over and over.

 

Craig