Author research - Vehicle options?

[Guest KateCS]

I'm an author writing a novel where the hero is driving a car, probably 1940s-1950s, which has a solid (non-collapsable) steering column, front engine, bench seat, and a floor gear shift.

 

It needs to be sporty and have power, too. I was thinking that the hero might have modified the car, but then he probably would have changed out the steering column to make it safer.  Not sure. He's in the US. And the vehicle needs to survive a rollover crash, but the windshield breaks

 

Any suggestions that would make this plausible?

[padgett]

How about a Studillac ?

[Guest KateCS]

I don't think I've ever heard of that vehicle....?

[keiser31]

1953 Nash-Healey?

[Guest KateCS]

Just now, keiser31 said:

1953 Nash-Healey?

Would that survive a rollover?  It needs to be repairable.

[capngrog]

Even today, when many people modify cars, they often concentrate on the engine and the power it can produce.  Even when more contemporary steering systems are involved, it rarely includes a collapsible steering shaft.  Old school hot rodders, if that's what your "hero" is, rarely worried about things automotive beyond the horsepower of the largest, most powerful engine they could drop into a car.  Us/we "Old School Guys" rarely worried about unimportant things such as steering, brakes etc.  Of course, we were younger then and indestructible.

 

Cheers,

Grog

[keiser31]

Sorry....wrong Nash-Healey...try this one....

[padgett]

Try here. Guess today it would be a resto-mod.

[Dave Mellor NJ]

In a famous ad at the introduction in 1934, a Chrysler Airflow was rolled down a cliff. It suffered severe damage but a guy walked over to it, started it up and drove it away, showing the amazing stuctural integrity of the car.Try that on a modern econobox.

[Dave Mellor NJ]

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Chrysler+Airflow+rolling+down+a+cliff&view=detail&mid=53C6B4C4B66F143EB0E853C6B4C4B66F143EB0E8&FORM=VIRE

[Digger914]

2 hours ago, KateCS said:

I'm an author writing a novel where the hero is driving a car, probably 1940s-1950s, which has a solid (non-collapsable) steering column, front engine, bench seat, and a floor gear shift.

 

It needs to be sporty and have power, too. I was thinking that the hero might have modified the car, but then he probably would have changed out the steering column to make it safer.  Not sure. He's in the US. And the vehicle needs to survive a rollover crash, but the windshield breaks

 

Any suggestions that would make this plausible?

Breaking a windshield in a rollover isn't to big a problem to write around, it happens or it doesn't; back then like it does today. Front engine eliminates the Tucker making the 56 Ford the first front engine car with a safety steering wheel that helped prevent getting speared by the steering column.  Bench seat was standard, the new Y block V8, factory installed heater, automatic transmission, seat belts, power steering, power brakes and dual exhaust were all options for the upscale buyer. Most sticks were 3 on the tree and overdrive was the common option. I had to check dads old books to see if 4 on the floor was available, 3 speed with the automatic overdrive was as close as it could be bought from the factory and that was by special order.  

[poci1957]

Digger is correct that the 1956 Ford is recognized as offering the first popular package of safety features in a US car-- a dished steering wheel, seat belts, padded dash and sun visors, and safety door latches to prevent the doors from popping open in a crash.  All stock versions had a column shift, the two seat Thunderbird had these safety features and also floor shift.  So if your hero needs a regular full size car you can give him a 1956 Ford with a column shift.  If he might have a two seat sports car all 1956 and 1957 Thunderbirds had a floor shift.  If your time frame is later, maybe 1960, and he is a "hot rodder" he might have added a four speed with a floor shift, but not from the factory and likely not any earlier than that.  The attached pink and white car is a 1955 Ford (similar to a 1956) and the darker colored car is a 1957 Thunderbird.  All had bench seats, bucket seats were not available.  Good luck, Todd C

Edited May 9, 2016 by poci1957 (see edit history)

[Restorer32]

I don't believe the op cares about safety features other than he does not want a collapsible steering column. Most any car could survive a rollover crash, depending on circumstances, Basically any car with a non collapsible column, bench seat and floor shifter should work.

[padgett]

ps a roll down a hill is considerably less damaging and happens at a slower speed & on soft earth than a flat roll.

[Guest KateCS]

14 minutes ago, Restorer32 said:

I don't believe the op cares about safety features other than he does not want a collapsible steering column. Most any car could survive a rollover crash, depending on circumstances, Basically any car with a non collapsible column, bench seat and floor shifter should work.

 

Exactly!  And having been in several 60s and 70s era vehicles, I know that the floor shifter is probably the biggest issue with my story, not the column, but I needed something.

 

My dad talked about rolling his grandfather's Henry J when he was 16 and clutching onto something on the floor (under the dash?) when it rolled....which gave me this idea.

[Guest KateCS]

1 minute ago, padgett said:

ps a roll down a hill is considerably less damaging and happens at a slower speed & on soft earth than a flat roll.

 

The way I have it worded--which can be changed--is that he was driving a little too fast, hit a pothole that was filled with water and the car went into a tree (column not collapsing is the key there), then rolled over once.  The story opens with him laying on the floor of the car, pinned under the dash with a steeling column skewering the driver's seat and he's stuck between the bench and the shifter, with broken glass around him.

 

I can make this any vehicle I want--he's just going to have to restore the darn thing before the end of the story, so I'm leaning towards something difficult, but not impossible, to get parts for.

[padgett]

Then you want a column shifter for sure, floor shifter can get in the way of a dive under the dash. Heck if fiction why not make it a Tucker, they were designed for safety. Before seat belts people were taught to dive under the dash if all else failed. Tucker also had a flat floor.

Edited May 9, 2016 by padgett (see edit history)

[Guest KateCS]

3 minutes ago, padgett said:

Then you want a column shifter for sure, floor shifter can get in the way of a dive under the dash. Heck if fiction why not make it a Tucker, they were designed for safety. Before seat belts people were taught to dive under the dash if all else failed. Tucker also had a flat floor.

 

I thought Tuckers were wide and built like tanks?  But oooohhhhh, moving headlights.  Reading a bit--the windshield in a Tucker was supposed to pop out in a crash, though.  I wonder if that feature actually worked as advertised?

[jpage]

The plot almost sounds like an old Alfred Hitchcock story where a man plows his convertible into the rear of a truck killing several workers. The camera pans back to the lifeless body of the driver now pinned to the seat back by the steering wheel push into his chest. Several hours pass until  the authorities arrive to find him. He's still alive and thinking about what happened or what's going to happen, but is unable to move or make a sound and his eyes are opened and fixed toward the sky but he can hear everything that's being said.Thinking he's dead, the authorities take their time inspecting the site when he discovers that he can only move one little finger. Unable to alert anyone, they take his body to the morgue and cover it for the night. His mind is wildly racing, thinking of the impending and horrific autopsy, when he begins to cry. Soon the ME comes in and uncovers the body with his assistant who notices a lone tear running down his face and suddenly realizes that he is not dead! He's saved in the nick of time!  

Edited May 9, 2016 by jpage (see edit history)

[Guest KateCS]

jpage, considering this isn't a thriller, I think it's going go in a slightly different direction.   Our hero needs to survive the crash and then get the car fixed before his grandfather finds out that he had an accident at all.

[padgett]

Ferris Bueller's Day Off done sideways.

[jpage]

That actually happened to my grand uncle and his cousin back in the '30's. My uncle took his dad's Model "A" Ford without his permission one night for some joy riding. I don't know what transpired but on the way home later in the evening, he wrecked the car tearing away the one front fender, headlamp and part of the running board. Somehow, they found another "A" that a friend had that was the same year, so they took the parts from it and repaired the car in a few hours and returned it to the garage, hoping that his dad wouldn't be the wiser. Since the "A" used the same parts and were painted the same color on the fenders his plan could have worked.  But the best laid plans often go astray and the plot was found out and he suffered the consequences. Fortunately, no one was injured and life soon got back to normal. I think the whole episode cost him about $40 bucks and quite a bit of embarrassment!

[poci1957]

OK, I misinterpreted when mentioning the 1956 Fords, this scenario would require LACK of safety equipment, certainly no seat belts. 

If you are set in the 1955-60 time frame a 1955 Thunderbird would be a status symbol sort of car if it is roomy enough to suit the story.  Note the pointed horn button at chest level.  If the hero is lower income an aging 1937-39 Ford sedan could plausibly be in the hands of a young man and a grandfather in the mid-1950s.  Readers?  

 

[Guest BillP]

It seems as though if he's going to whack a tree hard enough to push the steering column back, he's likely substantially bent the frame, torn the steering gear box from its mount, destroyed the front end sheet metal, wrecked the dash board and other parts of the interior, squashed the roof and windshield, and in short, totalled Gramps' pride and joy. Not a weekend repair by an amateur, but there is that whole 'willing suspension of belief' thing that novelists depend on. It'll be fun to watch him fix the car.

Edited May 9, 2016 by BillP (see edit history)

[Guest KateCS]

3 minutes ago, BillP said:

It seems as though if he going to whack a tree hard enough to push the steering column back, he's likely substantially bent the frame, torn the steering gear box from its mount, destroyed the front end sheet metal, wrecked the dash board and other parts of the interior and in short, totalled Gramps' pride and joy. Not a weekend repair by an amateur, but there is that whole 'willing suspension of belief' thing that novelists depend on.

 

Maybe a targeted hit--direct impact to the drivers fender?  I don't need it to be a weekend repair, it's modern day, he's got cash, and he's going to take it to a shop.  Actually, he was on his way to the shop when he lost control and hit the tree.  Maybe he managed to damage some parts they already had ordered?  "That crumpled fender? Already planned on replacing it!"

 

It's a current day timeframe, readers are mostly women.  Honestly, it just needs to be plausible, I don't have to get into details, but what the vehicle is and how difficult it would be to get parts, NOS or reproduction, is a key, along with the amount of damage.  The editors will probably be the bigger jerks about anything since they are willing to suspend belief for some items and not at all with others.  (I had an editor rip into a whole novel where the heroine was a professional brewer because she thought it wasn't accurate, but I brew beer myself and had a professional brewer look over the manuscript first.) I'm not going to put in a whole lot of detail because then there's more of an issue that it might be wrong, but this is a problem that the hero has to deal with.

 

Another question: I know that safety glass was standard after a while, any idea when that started?  I read about Ford using it in the 1920s, was that standard across all manufacturers by the 40s?

[60FlatTop]

Sounds like a novel car to me and apparently has some anti-fiction components.

Bernie

[Digger914]

5 hours ago, KateCS said:

 

Maybe a targeted hit--direct impact to the drivers fender?  I don't need it to be a weekend repair, it's modern day, he's got cash, and he's going to take it to a shop.  Actually, he was on his way to the shop when he lost control and hit the tree.  Maybe he managed to damage some parts they already had ordered?  "That crumpled fender? Already planned on replacing it!"

 

It's a current day timeframe, readers are mostly women.  Honestly, it just needs to be plausible, I don't have to get into details, but what the vehicle is and how difficult it would be to get parts, NOS or reproduction, is a key, along with the amount of damage.  The editors will probably be the bigger jerks about anything since they are willing to suspend belief for some items and not at all with others.  (I had an editor rip into a whole novel where the heroine was a professional brewer because she thought it wasn't accurate, but I brew beer myself and had a professional brewer look over the manuscript first.) I'm not going to put in a whole lot of detail because then there's more of an issue that it might be wrong, but this is a problem that the hero has to deal with.

 

Another question: I know that safety glass was standard after a while, any idea when that started?  I read about Ford using it in the 1920s, was that standard across all manufacturers by the 40s?

Sounds like you need a spectacular!!!, how did you ever survive?, repairable auto accident and for this I suggest a 56 or 7 Chevy, a sexy station wagon and a car with plenty of available parts (not the Nomad as it doesn't have a solid seat back and guys don't usually drive a wagon with the rear seat up when they carry things). The parking brake T handle was a substantial under dash hand hold and anyone who has driven a mini van or station wagon with anything in the back knows where it goes when you step on the brakes. If you want to fill the inside of a station wagon with glass put a steel tool box in the back, one that is bigger than the side windows, touch the soft shoulder of a road with a steep ditch and even the best of drivers can roll a car on their way into the ditch, while trying to fight their way out and there is always something in a ditch to help you stop quick, even if it's just mud. 80 pounds of tools still moving at 50mph has more than enough force to bust the front seat and shove it into the steering wheel and rolling the car means that there will be more than enough busted glass to cover your driver.

 

Your question on the Tucker windshield, it was meant to spit out of it's mount before the passengers head broke through the safety glass. I did several years volunteer fire and rescue before wearing seat belts was required by law and air bags were in the cars. The passenger who went all the way through the windshield had a better chance of survival than the one who stopped at their shoulders.

[padgett]

My experience is that editors always well edit. If you do not give them something, they will find it anyway.

 

I just don't think you want a car that the driver is going to impale him or her self on the shifter diving for the floor or one that has no room between the shifter and the dash to dive in the first place. For your plot a column shifter is best.

 

Suprisingly it is possible with a 53-54 Corvette since the powerslide shifter was very close to the tunnel.

 

Might also mention tat in that era nearly everything including Caddys and Lincolns (which could be very fast cars at the time) could be had with three on the tree (and even better with a B-W overdrive).

 

And just a thought but why not just have the seat slide forward (much more likely in a non-totaling crash) and pin him/her under the dash. Have been surprised before by a manual seat that did not latch properly.

Edited May 10, 2016 by padgett (see edit history)

[nickelroadster]

Yes Safety glass was pretty much standard in the forties.  Body and paint work takes time.  Most likely any kind of an accident would take at least a week with a rollover more like a month assuming parts availability is good.   Grandpa may have to be on a bit of a trip.  The Tbird would work very well as just about any parts are currently easy to get and you could have a floorshift from the factory.

[jeff_a]

Why not outfit your old boy with a 1949 Jaguar Mark V Saloon. Manual 4-speed, 3.5 L Six. A distinctive upper-crust sedan...and you can get it in either LHD or RHD to suit your wreck. If your novel is successful to the point of being made into a film, some actual cars are still floating around. I saw one FS on the web today for around $6,000(in need of restoration, but not a rusted-out junkyard refugee).

[padgett]

About Jag saloons before the MK IX. If you need to stop one best have a country mile. Of course it is had to get one (esp the 2.5) going fast enough to matter. Not very sporty. Now if you want a furrin sedan of that period that period that was fast and real easy to lose  control try a Tatra .

[Rusty_OToole]

Floor shifters were replaced by column shift in practically all American cars about 1940. All cars had solid steering columns until the late 60s.

 

It was a well known racing driver's trick to 'dive for the cellar' in case of an impending accident. The idea was to drop to the floor, roll under the dash board and brace your back against the dash. Doing this in the last seconds before a crash. This gave you the best chance of coming out in one piece.

 

For your purpose practically any car of the forties and fifties would work. if you insist on the floor shifter, make it a 39 Ford coupe hot rod with a souped up flathead V8 and stock floor shift 3 speed transmission. This would have been a popular type of car for young men particularly in California but to a lesser extent, around the country up to 1955 or so. After that the newer OHV V8s were the thing.

 

They did make floor shift conversions for hot rods but this would be too "cute" and hard to explain.

[Rusty_OToole]

Safety glass was standard on all cars after about 1930, and was available on some cars as early as 1925.

 

After going over your posts again I stand by my 39 Ford suggestion. It fits all the criteria of steering column, seat, etc. It is valuable enough that it would be repaired even after a rollover. Reproduction parts are available and so are original used parts, for a price. And it is valuable enough to make fixing it worthwhile.

 

Thunderbird, and sports cars in general won't work because there is not room in the passenger compartment for the driver to get under the dash. It has to be a standard American car.

 

The only thing that bothers me is the floor shifter. If you could dispense with that, you would have a much wider choice.

[Guest KateCS]

11 hours ago, Rusty_OToole said:

Thunderbird, and sports cars in general won't work because there is not room in the passenger compartment for the driver to get under the dash. It has to be a standard American car.

 

The only thing that bothers me is the floor shifter. If you could dispense with that, you would have a much wider choice.

 

Good point.  And I could see him pinned under the dash instead of between the shifter and the floor.  I like one poster's suggestion that I could have the seat slide forward and he's stuck under there--which would also allow for my driver's seat skewered by the steering column without an absolute mess of the body and frame.

 

Stuff in the car would lead to broken glass, too. I like that suggestion.  I still remember my uncle driving around in his early 60s Suburban with a ton of tools in the back while he was working on it.  Heck, he had a nice metal and vinyl kitchen chair instead of a driver's seat....

[Steve_Mack_CT]

This is an interesting thread.  The one comment I would have aside from technical discussion which it seems you can write around depending on what vehicle you choose is that you mention a couple of other things - not a suspense novel, and mostly female readership is expected.  Not sure of the target or expected age group, but the Thunderbird is a pretty well recognized and generally accepted as somewhat special car - the kind of car parts replacement or fixing it right could be a challenge, even if one has the money.  I just think a lot of your readers will mentally picture that car in their heads well, and it won't be as nebulous as some other makes or models you might choose.  

 

The only other thought if you have not already done so now that spring is coming - take in a local car show or two and look for the vehicle that speaks to you for your book.  Not the biggest decision maybe, but since you took the time to post here, you might consider that.

 

When the time is appropriate, please post the title and author name if you don't mind, I am sure some of us will be curious about the story!

[Digger914]

Even with the hard top on, the iconic T Bird of the 50's did not roll without going flat up top.

[Rusty_OToole]

I'm impressed that you are taking the trouble to get the details right on something most of your readers won't even care about. It is this attention to realism that makes a story come to life.

 

Take another look at the picture of the Ford coupe in post #23. This is exactly the car I am talking about.

 

I visualize the accident as happening like this:

 

Driver is driving on a quiet country road in his 39 Ford coupe at 45 MPH when it starts to rain (he prefers to avoid heavy traffic and fast interstates that is why he took this road). It has been raining off and on all day.

 

There is a pothole but it doesn't show much because it is full of water.

 

He hits the pothole which is unexpectedly deep. There is a crash of metal as the axle hits the frame. The car swerves to the left. He turns the wheel but nothing happens - the steering is broken.

 

The car heads across the road diagonally as he pushes the brake pedal hard. The bias ply tires skid on the rain slick road, the car lurches to the right  toward a tree. By this time the car has slowed to about 20 MPH

 

The driver uses a trick an old timer taught him - better to 'dive for the cellar' than go through the windshield (car has no seat belts)

 

He throws himself to the right onto the floor as the car leaves the road. It misses the tree then slides sideways into a deep ditch. When it hits the bottom momentum throws the car onto its side, against the far side of the ditch.The impact smashes the side glass.

 

The driver is stuck between the seat and gearshift lever, half under the dash, head down, and the door won't open because it is against the ground. The seat back (moveable) fell forward which doesn't help.

 

Driver manages to get out the other door, alone or with help. Has car towed on a tilt-n-load  to a garage owned by an antique car expert.

 

Inspection reveals a bent wheel and broken tie rod end. That is why the steering wouldn't work. The impact of the deep pothole bent the wheel and snapped the tie rod end, which disconnected the steering wheel.

 

Body damage to the front bumper, front fender, headlight,  running board, door, and a dent at the edge of the roof.

 

All can be repaired except the wheel and  front fender which is  badly dented and crushed in. Fortunately the garage owner knows where he can get a good used fender for a few hundred dollars. The owner happens to have a spare wheel.The bumper can be straightened and rechromed, The headlights are available as new reproductions. Tie rod end is also available new. All the glass is flat, a new window can be cut by any auto glass shop

 

I made it a broken side window because side windows are made of tempered glass. Tempered glass shatters into innumerable small squarish bits the size of peas. Windshields are made of laminated glass. It breaks into shards or spears like window glass but does not fall apart because there is a sheet of plastic in the middle that holds it together. So, if you want the floor covered in broken glass it has to be the side window.

 

Is that what you had in mind? I'm no Shakespeare but the above makes sense from a technical standpoint.

 

I want to give you an accident that will shake up the driver and give him a few bruises but not kill him, and cause some bad looking damage to the car but still be repairable.

 

You should bear in mind, that a crash at relatively slow speed was a serious matter in a car with rigid steering column, no seat belts, no air bags, no impact absorbing bumpers,  no safety devices of any kind.

 

 

Edited May 12, 2016 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[ply33]

1 hour ago, Rusty_OToole said:

. . .

Driver is driving on a quiet country road in his 39 Ford coupe

. . .

I made it a broken side window because side windows are made of tempered glass.

. . .

When did tempered glass for side windows start for cars? My early '30s car came with plate glass standard for the side windows, safety glass was an option. I suspect that was near the end of the line for plate glass in that application and all I've seen in later '30s cars is safety glass (if original then usually starting to delaminate).

 

And I vaguely recall safety glass lamination being visible on the top edge of the side windows of the '63 we had when I was a child. To me that suggests sometime in the mid to late 60s for tempered glass to be used. But childhood memories are often false. . .

[padgett]

Rusty- nice thought but does not even need a broken steering rod since when the wheel hits the deep pothole of water only the other brake will work pulling the steering violently to the side (almost broke a finger on the steering wheel of a drum brake Corvair that way one time many years ago).

[Restorer32]

7 hours ago, ply33 said:

When did tempered glass for side windows start for cars? My early '30s car came with plate glass standard for the side windows, safety glass was an option. I suspect that was near the end of the line for plate glass in that application and all I've seen in later '30s cars is safety glass (if original then usually starting to delaminate).

 

And I vaguely recall safety glass lamination being visible on the top edge of the side windows of the '63 we had when I was a child. To me that suggests sometime in the mid to late 60s for tempered glass to be used. But childhood memories are often false. . .

 

First use of tempered glass was late 1930's. Not sure when its use became wide spread.