Ok, I'll be the one to ask

[Restorer32]

Apparently it is now considered OK to document "street machine" builds involving major non authentic modifications to a vehicle under "Restoration Projects"?

[Bill Stoneberg]

Cool, I can post pictures of my 72 Vega I am putting a Big Block in.....:-)

[Restorer32]

I'm just not sure we should be featuring vehicles that could never be shown in any class at an AACA National meet.

[R W Burgess]

Jeff, no one has ever questioned this before. I am not on the committee concerned, but personally, I see this as a learning experience for our hobby. Doing body restorations and chassis work with accompanying pictures may better help us do our own work in a different or quicker way. It is also a way to interest younger people in antique cars. As you well know we allow minor modifications on the DPC Show field and on our touring cars.

That's just my opinion though.

[PONTIAC1953]

looks like aaca will have their own internet version of gas monkey garage, i think that is going too far from what the aaca's true classic car core is known for. i can see the need sometimes for improvements of safety items like brakes modifications that are not easily seen or known. i know in my own project, i'm trying to replicate my 1953 pontiac chieftain custom catalina into a tribute to the 23 cars that pontiac did build as a production prototype of the 1953 pontiac line up with a 287 V8 engine, and i know that all the added options and accessories are from the 1950's general motors stable. i feel that what i'm doing doesn't fall into a "street machine" definition, but rather a example of what might have been, if oldsmobile and buick hadn't gone crying to the board of directors, being fearful of having to compete for new car buyers against a 1953 pontiac V8 car. but this chevelle SS396/454 project is a combination of body restoration and street machine modifications, and with what's being done to the car goes far beyond the meaning of "minor modifications". i feel that restorer32 has a valid concern, aaca has to draw a line somewhere, or we'll keep on going down a slippery slope.

charles l. coker

1953 pontiac tech advisor

tech advisor coordinator

poci

[60FlatTop]

Entertaining topic so far. I looked; one is a clone. I wonder what kind of comments this car might have brought: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1940-Packard-/131471815652?forcerrptr=true&hash=item1e9c54b3e4&item=131471815652&nma=true&si=a5VicR6xI3iOSHphgCRYnlisUxQ%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557. I know another forum saw no transferable learning skills, 4 shure.

Bernie

[Guest BillP]

I agree with the original poster. the chevelle is sort of interesting and looks like the workmanship is OK, but it's not why I come to these forums, or have an interest in AACA.

There are numerous hot rod forums. Don't get me started on the chop it butchery that is the fad these days.

[vermontboy]

There are numerous hot rod forums out there for this kind of thing. While I agree that we don't want to become as stringent as some of the other clubs out there someone has to draw a line somewhere.

If this organization becomes an open forum on "street machines" and "rat rods" you will soon have an entire new membership to deal with because many of your old members, myself included, will abandon ship.

Didn't the Chevy club just go through a similar experience .....

[R W Burgess]

Just noticed this.......

"Forum: Our Cars & Restoration Projects

Ongoing updates on our favorite cars and current restoration projects."

It doesn't say anything about year models, or modifications, just "our cars" & projects.

More than one AACA president has been heard to say, "We are here to serve you. If you ever want to change any of our policies or procedures, please contact the Vice President in charge, and the Board will discuss it!"

[Restorer32]

Soooooo...in your mind street rods would be fine to feature in that thread? Look, I'm not a hypocrite. Like most old line resto shops we do a bit of "rod" work ourselves. We have done 3 high end street rods in 36 years in business but I don't talk about them here. There are countless forums for rods and street machines but very few for true restoration. Just my humble opinion of course, nothing more.

[R W Burgess]

... Just my humble opinion of course, nothing more.

Mine too Jeff. I just try to be open minded about things. There are certainly lines we do not cross. I'm probably crossing one of them now replying on this thread. I'd be glad to talk to anyone about my feelings though, if they are interested. Be assured though that there are 20 other Board members and we do not always agree on things. That's why we vote on certain issues and also why we do listen to our members.

Wayne

804-313-1983

[MCHinson]

I know very little about such cars. I have just briefly read the thread in question after I saw this discussion. I would not have otherwise clicked on the thread to read about such a vehicle. From a cursory look it appears to me that the car is being restored for the most part but with a larger chevy engine with a few non-original accessories. Am I missing something? While I admit that I know very little about Muscle Cars or other cars of that era, it seems to me that the use of the term Street Machine in the title is about the most "offensive" part of the entire discussion.

[smithbrother]

The actual topic section states "OUR CAR, & RESTORATIN PROJECT".

So he is showing his car.

Dale in Indy

[Restorer32]

Non original engine, aftermarket exhaust, non original paint, added a/c, likely aftermarket wheels etc. etc. So, I ask again, a pure street rod build would be ok? If not, where do you draw the line?

[MCHinson]

I don't see anything in that particular forum that specifies that a car has to be 100% AACA eligible. Before they were ever allowed on an AACA Showfield (too new at the time), the Reatta forum was the most active forum on this site. I don't typically read about them unless a discussion gets reported and needs the attention of a moderator. I also don't have much personal interest in the "muscle car" discussion that is being complained about, so I would not have read it until it was reported to the moderators as being offensive. Not my area of interest... so I would have otherwise just skipped it.

In my limited reading of the topic, I did not see an issue with the paint, but I am not a Chevelle original paint color expert. I also did not see what type of wheels are being used on the car. The headers would probably keep the car out of DPC certification on an AACA Showfield, but I still don't see why that particular one seems to have upset a few folks except for the use of the term "street machine". Glad he did not say it was a Classic Street Machine... that would have probably upset many more folks.

Maybe I should edit the topic title to remove the offensive term "steet machine"?

To answer your question, A "street rod build" would certainly be removed. I guess the line typically gets drawn somewhere around the point of "bolt on and easily removed components".

[R Walling]

I am not a true died in the wool antique fan but I do appreciate looking at a fine original auto. That is why I come to this site, to see antiques. I go to other forums, but sometimes I get turned off on some cars as they sometimes go over board on the modifications.

I would like it if this site remained only with true antiques. I would hate to see a supper charger sticking thru the hood of a 23 Henway.

[smithbrother]

It's like my TV set, if I don't like a program, I DON'T LOOK AT IT.

YOU are in control of what YOU read/look at, so CONTROL YOURSELF. It isn't the end of the world.

This subject has been kicked and kicked around forever.

It DOESN'T SAY IN THE TOPIC TITLE, (restored cars only)

Dale in Indy

Edited April 14, 2015 by Steve Moskowitz (see edit history)

[Steve Moskowitz]

OK, let's not let this thing get out of control. AACA sponsors these forums and allows others to use it as well. Our mission is well known and none of us see it changing in our lifetime. Other clubs may allow modifieds and that is fine. That is their right. It is our right to stand up and do our best to save historically accurate cars. Some one must and that is us. I greatly appreciate Jeff and others who are passionate about what we do. I also respect those that love other forms of the automobile hobby.

We try not to be heavy handed on forums as the very definition of it allows for diversity of thought. HAMB from time to time talks about original cars and as long as no one gets the impression we support modifying cars I am not certain that the thread brought up is a great threat to AACA. I found some of it interesting and certainly respect the work that went into it. Is there something to learn from the thread? Is it interesting? To some died in the wool AACA members I am sure as MANY have a modified car and a true AACA car in their garage.

We do not want to see rat rods and the like populate this site. We watch and pull some threads we feel cross the line. I am not sure this one does but will watch it closely and if the majority finds it that offensive we will deal with it but I hope we can tolerate a little difference of opinion, after all, we are all car guys. I debated about posting this as my views are mine and not necessarily that of the club. However, I am one of several who try to maintain some perspective with these pages and moderate in the best interest of AACA and the hobby both. Trust me, this site will never open up the flood gates to those who enjoy modified cars, that is for others.

[Larry W]

Just noticed this.......

"Forum: Our Cars & Restoration Projects

Ongoing updates on our favorite cars and current restoration projects."

It doesn't say anything about year models, or modifications, just "our cars" & projects.

It says "Our Cars & RESTORATION Projects", not "Our Cars & MODIFICATION Projects". I have absolutely no interest in following someone's modification to their car, and that's not why I joined the AACA. I am however, keenly interested in following the correct factory restoration of a vehicle, and possibly learn something pertaining to my own endeavers.

[John Byrd]

Excellent post Steve Moskowitz ! You know, if you get right down to it, every restoration is a modification, as is changing heater hoses, tires, etc. Like you say, nothing severe as far as vehicle "modifying or totally changing", but even that is a bit "iffy"... how about all the body changes to the beloved "correct" Classics ? Touchy subject, I guess, glad I like a bit of all types and love to read or hear all opinions !

mod·i·fy

ˈmädəˌfī/<input src="data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAA4AAAAOCAQAAAC1QeVaAAAAi0lEQVQokWNgQAYyQFzGsIJBnwED8DNcBpK+DM8YfjMUokqxMRxg+A9m8TJsBLLSEFKMDCuBAv/hCncxfGWQhUn2gaVAktkMXkBSHmh0OwNU8D9csoHhO4MikN7BcAGb5H+GYiDdCTQYq2QubkkkY/E6CLtXdiJ7BTMQMnAHXxFm6IICvhwY8AYQLgCw2U9d90B8BAAAAABJRU5ErkJggg==" height="14" type="image" width="14" style="font-size: small; font-family: arial, sans-serif;">

verb

past tense: modified; past participle: modified

• make partial or minor changes to (something), typically so as to improve it or to make it less extreme.
  "she may be prepared to modify her views"
  [TABLE=class: vk_tbl vk_gy]
  <tbody>[TR]
  [TD=class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl]synonyms:[/TD]
  [TD]alter, change, adjust, adapt, amend, revise, reshape, refashion, restyle,revamp, rework, remodel, refine; More
  
  
  
  
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[Guest Bob Call]

I have no problem with the 69 Chevelle project. Car is 45 years old, replacing body parts with repo's that match originals, and upgrading the engine to a big block that was available in the 69 Chevelle, albeit it's a 454 which wasn't available in the Chevelle until the 70 model year, in the form of the 396 in the SS trim models. In effect he's rebuilding a stock 69 with an overhauled motor with an overbore. To me it's a stretch to call it a "street rod". It's just a 45 year old used car.

[Restorer32]

I don't see anything in that particular forum that specifies that a car has to be 100% AACA eligible. Before they were ever allowed on an AACA Showfield (too new at the time), the Reatta forum was the most active forum on this site. I don't typically read about them unless a discussion gets reported and needs the attention of a moderator. I also don't have much personal interest in the "muscle car" discussion that is being complained about, so I would not have read it until it was reported to the moderators as being offensive. Not my area of interest... so I would have otherwise just skipped it.

In my limited reading of the topic, I did not see an issue with the paint, but I am not a Chevelle original paint color expert. I also did not see what type of wheels are being used on the car. The headers would probably keep the car out of DPC certification on an AACA Showfield, but I still don't see why that particular one seems to have upset a few folks except for the use of the term "street machine". Glad he did not say it was a Classic Street Machine... that would have probably upset many more folks.

Maybe I should edit the topic title to remove the offensive term "steet machine"?

To answer your question, A "street rod build" would certainly be removed. I guess the line typically gets drawn somewhere around the point of "bolt on and easily removed components".

You missed my point entirely. I have no problem with the term "street machine" and I don't necessarily have a problem with the thread, after all, I do read it. I just asked the question, does this type thread further the mission of the AACA? We constantly redirect those with questions about how to modify a car, be it adding disc brakes, changing engines, adding after market a/c etc yet here we are featuring basically a tutorial on doing just that. Maybe it is time for AACA to recognize that segment of the car hobby? Don't shoot the messenger, I'm just asking the question. If I were a new young viewer of this websirte for the first time and clicked on the thread in question I would get an entirely different idea of what "restoration' is than if I read the AACA mission statement.

[R W Burgess]

......... If I were a new young viewer of this websirte for the first time and clicked on the thread in question I would get an entirely different idea of what "restoration' is than if I read the AACA mission statement.

I've read that restoration thread more times than I'd like to admit. What part of that thread is not exactly like the restoration of an antique vehicle?

Better yet, what "percentage" of that Chevelle would not be considered correct on our DPC show field? 10%? 5%? 1%?

Wouldn't those percentage figures cover a lot of DPC vehicles already shown on the AACA show field?

[Restorer32]

Incorrect engine, headers, street rod a/c unit, incorrect rear, non original paint color, stripes added to mimic a different model, aftermarket performance exhaust? Where do you draw the line? How is it any different from a '32 Ford street rod with a body that was not modified and running a later Ford engine with headers? Would that be allowed in DPC? It's a good thread in that it shows body work and paint methods which are applicable to all cars. Maybe a different category for "modifieds"?

[R W Burgess]

Incorrect engine, headers, street rod a/c unit, incorrect rear, non original paint color, stripes added to mimic a different model, aftermarket performance exhaust? Where do you draw the line? How is it any different from a '32 Ford street rod with a body that was not modified and running a later Ford engine with headers? Would that be allowed in DPC? It's a good thread in that it shows body work and paint methods which are applicable to all cars. Maybe a different category for "modifieds"?

It's a restoration thread, using the same procedures to install the a/c unit, rear end, engine(hard to tell incorrect, since we do not check block numbers), exhaust system (yes, it's radical, but it still has to be installed the same way), body repairs, etc.

Someone else mentioned the "suggestion" of mag wheels (I did not see any mag wheels?), which can be traded for bias/wheel combos for a meet. As Steve mentioned above, rad rods or '32 chopped Fords would not be allowed on the forum. The '32 Ford you mentioned would be allowed as a restoration thread. (I'm assuming it's not chopped, has all of its fenders, and a hood?) This car does not fit that description, again, in my humble opinion.

[Paul Dobbin]

Hey guys, it's "Thread" not a judged show. I find it easy to bypass threads I'm not in interested in, just like walking a show field. If I'm not interested in a vehicle, I'm not compelled to stop and tell the owner what I

don't like about his pride & joy. Same goes for all the stuffed animals and trophies displayed around an ugly

car, it just doesn't matter if they like it.

I like the sign that says, "Restored to and maintained in good used car condition".

[1912Staver]

There is already a section of the AACA site which is for modified vehicles, it's the Speedster section. They were after all the original "Street rod". Many pre WW2 race cars are also modified production cars , and are AACA eligible.

I think the problem with many AACA oriented people occurs with post war modified cars. {or earlier cars that were modified in the post war era} They are lumped together as "Hot Rods", with all the 1950's hysteria that is still in many peoples minds.

Personally there are quite a few cars of this type that I like, and a great many that I don't. And I agree that sites like the H.A.M.B. are the place for them. So in my mind at least : Pre war /stock/or modified prior to lets say 1950 , AACA all the way. Post war ; stock or Very close only.

Greg in Canada

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Having been the one who asked our Mods if they would consider a Speedster section, I would just note that it works well because it is well defined - "for the discussion of prewar speedster type cars only" - really the spirit I had in mind, which, as you note, predates hot rods. Thanks to the mods, it seems to be a good home for a very niche sort of car. Except for Model T only sites, this tpe of car was not being served elsewhere by other forums - I began getting interested and saw enough of these things pop up in "general discussion" - almost always with good levels of interest in other words, a good fit with our members.

While generally I tend to agree with Restorer on this issue (as even traditional hot rods are a different animal from Speedsters); but I think, given the array of other options out there for modified cars the "forum market" if you will, better forum fits for those cars should keep most modifieds out of our forum. Mods can step in when needed, but I would think a guy who is mainly interested in how to marry his 1940 Dodge sedan with new Dodge Challenger components is not going to find this is the best place for him, so maybe not such a big issue unless it becomes a growing trend. Then the mods may want to give some thought to another section but I think once your past the Speedster era, the challenge is how to define what is acceptable.

Adding a section might encourage more than discourage a focus on modifieds and hot rods and create more controversy. Maybe for now a simple request is if anyone posts there modified car in the projects section, they are asked to note it as modified in the header. Simple rule allowing people to "walk on by" if they prefer, and just monitor the activity for now? (my other issue with a dedicated section is the added traffic and admittedly I am not an expert but does that not translate into added cost to AACA?)

Anyway, just a couple thoughts on this...

Edited April 15, 2015 by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history)