Nick Moore Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 Hi,I thought some of you might be interested in a farm-find I recently dragged home. I'm a geologist working in northern Queensland, and one of the farms we were drilling on had a collection of artistically-arranged debris beside the farmer's runway. I had no idea what it was when I first saw it, but the clue that eventually told me it was a 1927 Dodge was the air cleaner. Although it is a body-less wreck, the steel still there is in amazingly good condition, thanks to northern Australia's dry climate. So at the end of the job, I hauled the remains home. Normally I just collect rocks The engine number is D907-581 and the chassis is A810-423. It consists of a chassis (pretty straight), engine (rusted solid), back axle (also rusted solid), front wings, radiator shell, hood panels and bulkhead. No gearbox, and only the hubs and one rim from the wooden-spoked wheels. The cast iron part between the engine and bellhousing is broken.The bulkhead (or cowling, what's the American term?) is very rusty, but I was stopped on the way home by a chap who invited me to see his Model T collection. To one side were parts from what he thought was a Hupmobile - looking at the photos now, I'm sure it's an earlier (c. 1925) Dodge bulkhead, and in much better condition than mine. Apart from the vent flap, are there any differences from a 1927 Dodge bulkhead?Interestingly, I found green paint not only on the bulkhead but also the front wings. It may be that Australian-bodied cars didn't always have black wings? At the moment I'm completing the restoration of a Triumph GT6, so the Dodge parts have been tucked away in the garage while I track down missing parts. A Service Repair Manual is on its way from Amazon, to minimise the number of really dumb questions. I'll also keep an eye out for a body - while I'd love to restore it as a roadster-pickup (practical, easy to build and a fun open-top), if a roadster or tourer body in good condition turns up here in Australia, I might consider it.As foundRetrievalThe inside of the engine. Number 2 exhaust valve is broken, and may have been why it was eventually dumped.Traces of green paint (more often faded to yellow) on the front wingsWhat my friend thought was a Hupmobile. I'm thinking Dodge c.1925? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1930 Posted September 14, 2013 Share Posted September 14, 2013 Good luck with your project, keep us informed of the progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Moore Posted June 20, 2014 Author Share Posted June 20, 2014 (edited) I've spent the last nine months finding parts for my Dodge, stripping and reconditioning them. So far I've found a fuel tank, carburettor, water pump, generator and speedometer. I'm now looking for a distributor. The distributor should be mounted in front of the water pump like this one: Here's the water pump and distributor mounting - I haven't cleaned them up yet: The part numbers are a bit confusing, as I have a '26 chassis (A810423) and a D-series engine (5 mains, 3 chassis mounts). I think this distributor http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/121364955288?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com.au%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_sacat%3D0%26_from%3DR40%26_nkw%3D121364955288%26_rdc%3D1 (ebay 121364955288) is correct? It's a NorthEast model 10004. There are lots of other parts I'm keeping an eye out for - a steering wheel, gearbox, radiator, 21" wheels... but no hurry! So far the only Dodge I've found on the road is this one: Gives me a standard to aim for when restoring... Edited June 19, 2019 by Nick Moore Atroshus spelling (see edit history) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nearchoclatetown Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 A 10,004 distributor is the same as other DB's from '18 up had. you should be able to find one local. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_Greenlaw Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 hey Nick,Nice find. pretty hefty project but belonging to the Chrysler / Dodge clubs helps especially with spare parts.Look forward to following another Aussies progress.Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machinist_Bill Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Hello Nick!Unfortunately you need the Northeast 10786 Type TU. (6 Volt) I attached some photos. They are very elusive due to the pot metal crumbling. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trini Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 I would try to make that Dodge into a convertible truck. You may find wheels in Australia at a place called Gum Tree. I saw the sight advertised and I emailed them but they never replied . I will check my waste basket to see if I find the information. Also you may be able to fabricate some of the parts .There is a fellow in the U.S who made me a windshield frame for my 28 D.B closed car. Decent work and reasonable price too. Rubbers and seals and some small metal pieces are available from Myers Early Dodge . Great people to deal with. Reproduction parts are made in Australia. Dave @ dodge city in U S. has lots of parts . Elise Pakeman, in Australia have wheel parts. Existing tyre size will give you a lead as to what the wheel size is.It is just my opinion. Start by cleaning and painting what you have with POR 15 , put them together,step back and take a look , then you will get an idea where you are going and what next you need. Closed cars are difficult to restore especially the roof. If I can be of help drop me a line at hsahu@tcn.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Moore Posted June 24, 2014 Author Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) Thanks for the advice and encouragement, guys. Yep, eBay and Gumtree are two sites I'm keeping an eye on, and some parts have popped up from time to time. I'll join the Aussie Dodge club too.My plan is definitely to restore my Dodge as a roadster pickup, so that it'll be a useful member of the family and not just live in the garage. With that in mind, I'd like to add front brakes if possible. One of the front chassis legs has been bent and repaired (using a fence post!), something I'd like to avoid repeating... Is the '26's front axle the same as a Fast Four's? Another question... can anyone post a picture of their steering wheel hub? The remains of my steering wheel are rusted in place, and it's resisted all non-destructive attempts at disassembly (although I am winning, slowly). I've seen similar-looking wheels on eBay, but need to know that they really are the right ones. Here's mine:In the meantime, I have to finish this first - a '72 Triumph GT6: It looks finished, but I'm still fabricating a fuel injection system and headers. Edited June 24, 2014 by Nick Moore (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Moore Posted July 7, 2014 Author Share Posted July 7, 2014 (edited) Operation Clean-and-Paint is underway. It's amazing that after sitting outside for donkey's years, that old Dodge cast iron only has a thin film of rust. I know the area of Australia I bought it from is dry, but still, wow! One of the parts I cleaned up was the mount for the distributor. At least, I thought that was what it was. Mine is the green one on the right. I bought a water pump and it came with another mount, which is different. Looking at the large flat section with four holes, I'm wondering if my car had a magneto instead of a dizzy? I found an excerpt from an Australian newspaper from 1927 that states: "As battery ignition has been so successfully used in Australia for some considerable time, this type of ignition will be standard equipment on all the new Dodge Brothers' cars. Magneto ignition can be made available at extra charge."I think it'll be easier to find and restore a distributor than a magneto. Edited July 7, 2014 by Nick Moore (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert b Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Nick that is only the base the magneto mounts vertical bracket that bolts to the pump . They are about if you know what to look for but dist, is the better way to go , will keep you in mind at the next few swaps that come up . regards Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trini Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 I do not know for sure if my 1928 steering is the same style but your left over portion seems familiar. I can send you dimensions and picture . The levers for the ignition and spark advance are reproduced in Au. Have fun. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.White Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 I Thought you might like to see my (stock) 1973 Triumph GT6 Mk3 which I owned for 35 years before finally parting with last year. It had to go to make room for my Dodge Brothers touring. I do miss it though:(Ray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie 8 Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 G'day Nick.Message sent to you. Cheers. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Moore Posted July 14, 2014 Author Share Posted July 14, 2014 A couple of weeks ago I joined the Australasian Dodge club. The new member's pack arrived this week and included a magazine, booklet of serial numbers and a windscreen sticker (for when I get a windscreen). And a few days later I got a phone call from a guy named Jim Clarke, down south in Victoria. I can only assume that the photo of my rusty Dodge I sent as part of the club joining process acted as a distress call. Jim's been collecting Dodge parts for a fair few years, and just happened to have a set of 21" wooden wheels - the correct size for my car. The price was better than right - it was downright generous on Jim's part. So this morning's mission was a cold dawn meeting with a long-distance truck driver who Jim knows and who just happened to be driving up from Victoria. Jim's got a lot more parts, so I reckon this won't be the last early morning part-picking trip One rear wheel has been respoked but never fitted to a car, and the other rear is used but in good condition. The two fronts will need respoking, but it turns out that there's a wheelwright about an hour from Brisbane. My next jobs will be to strip and paint the felloes and hubs, and strip the black paint off the older rear wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanatejeda Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Nick,I have a 1927 Dodge Brothers 4 screen (Photos in library). I met a guy at a car show and he told me that he had some parts for a 27 Dodge and wanted to know if I wanted them. Not sure exactly what they are, but I can probably find out and or get you his email address. He was willing to just let me have them, but it was because our 4 screen is used for Public Relations programs for our Sheriff's Department. Let me know if your interested, I think they are parts for the engine and other misc parts. Let me know, you will, undoubtedly, have to pay the shipping and any cost associated with getting them to you. But it looks like you might be able to use whatever you can find.Juan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_Greenlaw Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 it never ceases to amaze me of the generousity and the ability to go out of their way to help people.Just thought I'd say that.Ian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trini Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Hi Nick, any possibility finding me a rim in Australia ? Tyre size is 600/650x19. Use 6 bolts .The width of the rim is 4 and 1/4ins. wide. I will pay all expenses. Elise Pakeman in Australia used to re produce them but he has ceased operation because of health reasons. I think his email is elisepakeman.com.au. What a loss. Is there any one who is enterprising enough to get his machinery to continue production ? Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Moore Posted December 11, 2014 Author Share Posted December 11, 2014 (edited) Yesterday I spent a thoroughly enjoyable half hour at Keith Wilson's wheelwright workshop in Allora. My front wheels need respoking, and the rears will need to be disassembled so that the hubs and felloes can be repainted. I already had an idea of how wheels are respoked, but wanted to find out how Keith recommended I prepare the metal components.The workshop was wonderful. Everything was covered by a layer of sawdust, making it seem as though nothing had been moved for years. It smelled of wood shavings - much nicer than the metal, oil and paint smells we're used to. Hanging from the rafters were hundreds of lengths of steam bent timber for felloes, steering wheels and hood bows, left to cure in their new shapes for a few months before being used. A lot of workshops have a dog snoozing in the corner. Keith has a shingleback lizard lying on a woodpile. Apparently it's been living in the shed for years.Keith recommended I have my wheel components sandblasted, not just wire brushed, and painted in two pack. He emphasised that the paint be thin so that it doesn't get squeezed when the wheel is assembled. His spokes are usually made from Australian Spotted Gum, although he has some stocks of hickory for the purists. Interestingly, he said that factory wheels were usually only painted after assembly, so there wasn't any paint under the spokes. He had some partly finished wheels to show me, including some whose metal components had been prepared incorrectly. No warranty on those! He also had some lovely Silver Ghost hubs, which were huge and intricate. The rear wheel bearing races must have been about four inches diameter.One of his friends dropped in while we were talking, driving a Model T pickup. Apparently it's his every day car. There was a 1915 Overland in the corner, half restored, a couple of old bikes, and a few other wheeled oddities stored in the sheds. All in all, it was a fascinating place to visit, and I'm looking forward to returning with my wheels. Edited December 11, 2014 by Nick Moore (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Lawson Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 G'Day Nick With the Spark and Throttle controls that you have your DB should have a Gemmer Steering Box. DBs with Dodge Bros own box had the leavers below the wheel. I do have some spare leavers if you need them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert b Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Yesterday I spent a thoroughly enjoyable half hour at Keith Wilson's wheelwright workshop in Allora. My front wheels need respoking, and the rears will need to be disassembled so that the hubs and felloes can be repainted. I already had an idea of how wheels are respoked, but wanted to find out how Keith recommended I prepare the metal components.The workshop was wonderful. Everything was covered by a layer of sawdust, making it seem as though nothing had been moved for years. It smelled of wood shavings - much nicer than the metal, oil and paint smells we're used to. Hanging from the rafters were hundreds of lengths of steam bent timber for felloes, steering wheels and hood bows, left to cure in their new shapes for a few months before being used. A lot of workshops have a dog snoozing in the corner. Keith has a shingleback lizard lying on a woodpile. Apparently it's been living in the shed for years.Keith recommended I have my wheel components sandblasted, not just wire brushed, and painted in two pack. He emphasised that the paint be thin so that it doesn't get squeezed when the wheel is assembled. His spokes are usually made from Australian Spotted Gum, although he has some stocks of hickory for the purists. Interestingly, he said that factory wheels were usually only painted after assembly, so there wasn't any paint under the spokes. He had some partly finished wheels to show me, including some whose metal components had been prepared incorrectly. No warranty on those! He also had some lovely Silver Ghost hubs, which were huge and intricate. The rear wheel bearing races must have been about four inches diameter.One of his friends dropped in while we were talking, driving a Model T pickup. Apparently it's his every day car. There was a 1915 Overland in the corner, half restored, a couple of old bikes, and a few other wheeled oddities stored in the sheds. All in all, it was a fascinating place to visit, and I'm looking forward to returning with my wheels.Hi Nick ,just a littel point to keep in mind that the front wheel hubs are slightly differant in size between two and four weel brake cars .Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Moore Posted June 19, 2019 Author Share Posted June 19, 2019 (edited) My ‘26 Dodge’s wheels have just come back from the wheelwright. They were respoked with Spotted Gum, which apparently has similar properties to the original timber (Hickory?). The level of detail involved in remaking a wooden spoked wheel is impressive - the wedge ends of the spokes are beveled so that bolting the hub and drum together tightens the spokes and pushes them out against the felloe. It’s obviously a technology developed over hundreds of years of horse-drawn carriages, but it’s equally obvious why car-makers were increasingly turning to steel wheels instead by the late twenties. A steel rim is probably stronger, composed of far fewer pieces and would take far less time and skill to assemble. And if my new wheels are anything to go by, steel wheels might have been lighter as well. But man, these are pretty. Anyway, these were remade by Keith Wilson in Queensland (Australia): Edited June 19, 2019 by Nick Moore Spelling (see edit history) 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Moore Posted August 17, 2019 Author Share Posted August 17, 2019 (edited) A couple of weeks ago I headed to Robert B's place to pick up a replacement chassis, rear axle and front axle with brakes. I'm very grateful to Bob for helping me with this rebuild. He has a trove of parts for four and six cylinder Dodges, and whenever my parts have turned out to be rubbish, he's been able to source or supply replacements. He's also making a radiator for me. The chassis has been sandblasted and painted with Bill Hirsch semi-gloss chassis paint, and a few minor parts have been powder coated. The front and rear axles will get blasted next week. The diff is the open prop shaft type, much lighter than the original with torque tube. Despite having been through the Murwillumbah floods a couple of years ago, it looks to be in good condition with no rust. It's a start... Edited August 17, 2019 by Nick Moore Added a photo (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichBad Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 Good to hear - Bob has been a legend at helping me out too! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
27dodger0 Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 I pray for you!! Be good to see when it's done!! 27 Dodger 0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Moore Posted April 21 Author Share Posted April 21 A few weeks ago I took a very old and rusty wheel rim to Steve Hood in Kingaroy (https://www.vintagerimsaus.com) so that he could make five new ones. While he's doing that, I went digging through my parts pile for rim clamps. I found several that were simply pieces of steel plate with a bolt hole (I guess the original clamps occasionally fell off and are somewhere beside the dirt roads of northern Queensland!), but I found one original-looking clamp, a Kelsey 56. A few minutes with a wire brush turned it from a feral-looking limp of rust into clean cast iron. Are these the correct clamps for Fast Four 21" wheels? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Moore Posted June 11 Author Share Posted June 11 I'm rebulding my Fast Four's diff. It's an open tailshaft back axle, if that makes a difference. Anyway, I took a closer look at what I thought was part of the casting in the nose of the 'pumpkin', and spotted some numbers. Is it a bearing shell? It doesn't look like it's tapered. Can anyone confirm it's a bearing shell? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30DodgePanel Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 (edited) On 4/20/2024 at 5:20 PM, Nick Moore said: A few weeks ago I took a very old and rusty wheel rim to Steve Hood in Kingaroy (https://www.vintagerimsaus.com) so that he could make five new ones. While he's doing that, I went digging through my parts pile for rim clamps. I found several that were simply pieces of steel plate with a bolt hole (I guess the original clamps occasionally fell off and are somewhere beside the dirt roads of northern Queensland!), but I found one original-looking clamp, a Kelsey 56. A few minutes with a wire brush turned it from a feral-looking limp of rust into clean cast iron. Are these the correct clamps for Fast Four 21" wheels? My wheel catalog does show that the 515 and 516 are for Dodge 1926-29 (as well as other applications). Also, I seriously doubt that bearing is tapered and should be the same measurement on both ends. Edited June 12 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichBad Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 11 hours ago, Nick Moore said: I'm rebulding my Fast Four's diff. It's an open tailshaft back axle, if that makes a difference. Anyway, I took a closer look at what I thought was part of the casting in the nose of the 'pumpkin', and spotted some numbers. Is it a bearing shell? It doesn't look like it's tapered. Can anyone confirm it's a bearing shell? It’s a roller bearing cage - there are two taper roller bearings on the front end of the pinion and this straight roller on the rear. There’s a pic of my parts before assembly in the link below and you can see this bearing 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Moore Posted June 13 Author Share Posted June 13 Thanks Rich, that makes perfect sense. I see the straight roller bearing in your photo. Do you have the part number? I’ve found numbers for the various tapered bearings, but not this one. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nat Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 That type of bearing is known as "open cage roller bearing". You may be able to get one from a bearing supplier if you give them the shaft diameter, O.D., (I.D. of outer race), and the width. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Gregush Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 Looks to be a Hyatt bearing. While there are some that are still made/available that one might take some searching. The Hyatt bearing is made out of a strip of flexible steel that wrapped around an arbor, cut to length before installing on the pin. When the bearing is assembled each roller is installed with the grooves/slits going different directions to help spread/pump the lube. Hyatt bearing were/are used in non-thrust applications such as shafts and transmission bearings. If you are replacing just to replace, I would consider rethinking that if you can't find the same style replacement. Sometimes the solid roller replacements are not as good for the job as the original style. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichBad Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 It’s a Hyatt OR304 & SRA403 dont think finding one one will be easy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minibago Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 There is a NOS outer race on ebay right now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Moore Posted June 15 Author Share Posted June 15 1 hour ago, RichBad said: It’s a Hyatt OR304 & SRA403 dont think finding one one will be easy. Thanks Rich, you are a scholar and a gentleman. The race does indeed have OR304 stamped on it, when I squint slightly. Eastern Bearings in Victoria have SRA403 journal rollers listed on their stock list, but that's dated 2015, so I've emailed to see if they still have them. 1 hour ago, Minibago said: There is a NOS outer race on ebay right now. Nope, I bought it! Thanks for the heads-up, that's 1/2 of the problem solved! 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nat Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 On 6/14/2024 at 9:34 AM, Mark Gregush said: Looks to be a Hyatt bearing. While there are some that are still made/available that one might take some searching. The Hyatt bearing is made out of a strip of flexible steel that wrapped around an arbor, cut to length before installing on the pin. When the bearing is assembled each roller is installed with the grooves/slits going different directions to help spread/pump the lube. I looked into Hyatt bearings after reading Mark's post and good advice. Those are referred to as "flexible" roller bearings and were invented in 1888 to reduce the overheating and seizing problems that solid roller bearings of the time were prone to. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minibago Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 On 6/15/2024 at 10:04 AM, Nick Moore said: Thanks Rich, you are a scholar and a gentleman. The race does indeed have OR304 stamped on it, when I squint slightly. Eastern Bearings in Victoria have SRA403 journal rollers listed on their stock list, but that's dated 2015, so I've emailed to see if they still have them. Nope, I bought it! Thanks for the heads-up, that's 1/2 of the problem solved! Hi Nick, Glad you were able to secure the outer race off ebay, further investigation shows there is a company in the USA that lists the bearings you need, send an email to Jim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Moore Posted June 29 Author Share Posted June 29 Success! Eastern Bearings in Victoria still had the bearings, so a few days later this arrived: The bearing race is coming from the States, and it's somewhere between here and Illinois. Next job is the Gemmer steering box. It was full of water at some point and rusty, so I'm not sure what state the gears will be in. The steering shaft's also bent and rusty, so this may be a case of finding a better one, and keeping this one for parts. The shaft and worm gear turn a bit, but I can't see how to dismantle it further, and I'm not about to force it. Hmmm... Bent can be fixed, but the central section is also thinned by rust and will need replacing. If anyone has a right hand drive '27 Gemmer box, please let me know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 Did you know Alfred Sloan, former chairmam of GM started out at Hyatt? He eventually became president and owner of the company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Gregush Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 Snyders Antique Auto Parts (Ford Model T and A) list the Gemeer gears for righthand drive for the Model A. Maybe they could be adapted. Snyders - Product 2 Tooth RIGHT HAND DRIVE STEERING SHAFT WITH WORM WEB-KIT-0632 (snydersantiqueauto.com) https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/product.htm?pid=977832&cat=41748 https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/product.htm?pid=977913&cat=41748 Snyders - 2 Tooth (snydersantiqueauto.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nat Posted September 1 Share Posted September 1 On 6/14/2024 at 9:34 AM, Mark Gregush said: Looks to be a Hyatt bearing. While there are some that are still made/available that one might take some searching. The Hyatt bearing is made out of a strip of flexible steel that wrapped around an arbor, cut to length before installing on the pin. When the bearing is assembled each roller is installed with the grooves/slits going different directions to help spread/pump the lube. Hyatt bearing were/are used in non-thrust applications such as shafts and transmission bearings. If you are replacing just to replace, I would consider rethinking that if you can't find the same style replacement. Sometimes the solid roller replacements are not as good for the job as the original style. I noticed this possible source for Hyatt type roller bearings on a Buick site. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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