Electronic Bugle trial

[Barney Eaton]

Sometime last year, the BCA started a 6 month trial for foreign BCA members to receive an electronic version of the Bugle.

I made the motion to do this while I was still on the Board, but since I am no longer a Board member, I have not hear any comments on how this worked.

What do you foreign members have to say about the trial?

[stealthbob]

Personally I thought it was great...but only received two issues.

I thought it was abandoned?

In retrospect, I should have said something....sorry

[rivgs]

Not abandonded, Our resident computor whiz is working on a better way for members to read it online. I saw some samples and it is quite good ( much clearer ). Hopefully something will be available very soon.

[stealthbob]

Nice!

Thanks rivgs.....

I love your tag line btw:

"Never argue with a fool, People may not be able to tell the difference."

One that I like that is very close to that one:

Never argue with an idiot, they will only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience"

Edited August 11, 2011 by stealthbob (see edit history)

[BUICK RACER]

Nice!

Never argue with an idiot, they will only drag you down to their level and beat you with their vast experience"

I like that one too only with some added couple of words!!1

[50jetback]

Barney,

I responded at the time to the BCA Office about the excellent concept of the availability of an electronic copy of the Bugle for remote members.

The copies I received were excellent and it was still nice to get the hard copy about 6 weeks later but at least I was up to date with any discussions on this forum about Bugle articles.

[1939_Buick]

Sometime last year, the BCA started a 6 month trial for foreign BCA members to receive an electronic version of the Bugle.

I made the motion to do this while I was still on the Board, but since I am no longer a Board member, I have not hear any comments on how this worked.

What do you foreign members have to say about the trial?

Personally I thought it was great...but only received two issues.

I thought it was abandoned?

In retrospect, I should have said something....sorry

Same here. Received 2 or 3 issues. Still like the hard copy but the pdf version worth getting when issued in USA

[MrEarl]

Not meaning to sound concerned excessively or exclusively with oneself here but WTF is the difficulty in also providing this great service to EVERY member whom may be interested in reading it online?

[NCReatta]

Not meaning to sound concerned excessively or exclusively with oneself here but WTF is the difficulty in also providing this great service to EVERY member whom may be interested in reading it online?

We've had a similar discussion over the past couple days on the Reatta forum about the Roster: http://forums.aaca.org/f116/paper-buick-membership-roster-book-waste-309407.html

Yeah, Wisky Tango Foxtrot guys. I think if the BCA was available to our international friends over the interwebz, it wouldn't be much harder to do that for our guys stateside, right?

[Guest BJM]

Not meaning to sound concerned excessively or exclusively with oneself here but WTF is the difficulty in also providing this great service to EVERY member whom may be interested in reading it online?

I'm glad you brought it up. It's probably too hot for me to touch. I would prefer it in electronic PDF format.

I belong to several old car clubs. One is Kaiser Frazer Owners Club, a much smaller organization then the BCA and they want to encourage all members to "go electronic" to save the club money. (the actual words).

I think a lot of old timers like the hard copy and I do too but electronic storage would be my choice to save the club money and for future reference.

For instance, I could rename the PDF when received. This month, I could rename it BCA Sept 2012-36 Buick, 81 Riviera then if I want to research 36 Buicks or see some good photos of a nice 81 Riviera, I can access it quickly.

I just threw away 5-6 old Bugles, after re-reading them.

[Thriller]

Threw away? Sigh.

I liked it, but the issue that I had is that somewhere along the way, it would get blocked, presumably on the concept of it being spam or similar...large e-mail to many addresses with an attachment and not much for text. When I heard about it coming out, I'd e-mail Mike & Nancy and they'd send it to me without any issues.

It was nice to get it in a more timely fashion and to have the option of reading it at the computer or in paper. It is funny...I know often enough when I read the paper version, either an ad or some tidbit of information pops out, forcing me to go to the computer to send an e-mail, check an advertiser, or search on something...if I didn't do it as I read it, I'd forget.

[Guest El_Diablo]

The PDF via E-Mail is nice, but once its published, you can't control it... everyone could forward it.

I would do it similar as we did it on 1954buick.com: 1954 Buick Highway - Technical Instructions / Manuals

The Bugles could be set up as content section and only forum members with permission (=paid subscription) can access it.

Advantages:

- No mass E-Mailing (and getting failures with broken E-Mail addresses), no conflicts with Spam rules

- With more issues, it would be a great online archive of the Bugle

- Its always available - even on mobile devices (Samsung Galaxy Tab, iPad, etc)

- Payment: Its possible to pay with PayPal (I can't become a member of the BCA, because I don't have a credit card)

Let me know if I can help...

Edited August 11, 2011 by El_Diablo (see edit history)

[MrEarl]

The PDF via E-Mail is nice, but once its published, you can't control it... everyone could forward it.

I would do it similar as we did it on 1954buick.com: 1954 Buick Highway - Technical Instructions / Manuals

The Bugles could be set up as content section and only forum members with permission (=paid subscription) can access it.

Advantages:

- No mass E-Mailing (and getting failures with broken E-Mail addresses), no conflicts with Spam rules

- With more issues, it would be a great online archive of the Bugle

- Its always available - even on mobile devices (Samsung Galaxy Tab, iPad, etc)

- Payment: Its possible to pay with PayPal (I can't become a member of the BCA, because I don't have a credit card)

Let me know if I can help...

put this boy on the payroll. and get him a membership for chrisakess, and use my credit card, he's good for it I know.

Thanks for that info and offer to help Jan.

[60FlatTop]

I like the chapter new letters in email form, they are brief with current news, kind of like the newspaper. The Bugle is a nice large and engrossing magazine to lean back on the couch or easy chair to read. It is more like reading a book.

I still read books. And I still drive 50 and 60 year old cars. And I look forward to the Bugle in the mail box. I carry a copy with my car featured in my truck arm rest.

I would have to say that tangible benefit of the Bugle is my tie to the national organization. If I wasn't into tangible stuff I would own a couple of Buicks.

Most clubs have 10% active and vocal members. Be careful, turning the Bugle into another email might make a large percentage of the silent majority yawn and go away.

Bernie

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

HEAR, HEAR, Bernie!

Ben

[Guest BJM]

I wonder? If - the electronic Bugle took off, the number of hard copy magazines go down and it costs more to publish them?

el D - Yes you can probably forward a PDF. But I can't see that happening a lot and it might be an easy way to recruit new members.

I get the WP Chrysler Club newsletter by e delivery and it works for me.

Derek- I know about throwing away old Bugles but I get 6-10 periodicals a month (club magazines / Hemmings stuff / etc) and I have to purge after awhile.

Bernie - I prefer books too. I just got a new prescription with bifocals so that was an issue with the hard copy Bugle before is the typeset was so small I was removing my glasses and holding the magazine up to my face to read.

[Guest 75RivGS]

Received the digital version of the Bugle three times... (Jan-March). Three times exactly on the same date as the prior month printed version arrived by snail-mail.

As a foreigner I receive the Bugle quite some weeks after my US friends receive it.

Sometimes it was hard to understand when a recent article in the Bugle was discussed on the AACA/BCA board, because I couldn't have read the article. Another thing is that items for sale in the ads were long gone once the Bugle got in my mailbox.

On the lay out:

it is quite clear that the lay-out of the digital issue is made for a hard copy.

Reading the Bugle in hard copy always two pages are opened while reading it.

Digitally (PDF) there is always one page visible (I know I can get 2 pages at the same time on my screen, but in that way they're too small to read properly) That makes reading a bit confusing.

I like it receiving the Bugle this way: not because I receive it in time now, but in my humble opinion it will be the new way of reading in the future (who buys books nowadays with I-Pads etc).

Besides that I hope membership dues can be a bit cheaper, and so foreigners are more willing to join the BCA. The fact now is that they pay more; get the Bugle days/weeks later and most of the time cannot (or less) enjoy the other advantages of a membership which a US-member does have.

My 2 (euro) cents

[stealthbob]

Just for an example folks...Just North of the boarder here and I just got my July Bugle last Monday.

I see it as an enhancement to a membership that includes a Hard copy Bugle and I appreciate the effort to help us foreigners.

[dei]

Some of you got 3 e-mailings? I believe I only received 1 and also figured it was shelved or being tweaked or..........

I receive an electronic (beautiful) copy from the NASH Club and one from my local car club here which I know saves money because of the membership that opted for the electronic version.

With the Canadian dollar at par, just send me the electronic version and drop the membership rate back to the US rate and I'd be a happy camper. Not complaining just saying....

[rivgs]

Wow, Things sure took off on this one. There was a trial run using the foreign members as test subjects to see how it works. Once everything is in place, a plan will be worked out for anyone who WANTS an electronic Bugle can recieve it that way ( Paper copies are not going away anytime soon ). There are still some things to work out before it is ready. Keep tuned.

[Guest BJM]

Once everything is in place, a plan will be worked out for anyone who WANTS an electronic Bugle can recieve it that way ( Paper copies are not going away anytime soon ). There are still some things to work out before it is ready. Keep tuned.

Thanks Kevin. It's good to hear from a BoD member, regarding the current status of this project on the National BoD radar instead of just a curiosity among the folks on this forum.

Was this perhaps an item that was brought up in the poorly attended BoD meeting at the National and if so, perhaps the members could get the minutes soon?

[Barney Eaton]

One thing to keep in mind about cost, even for just an electronic version, there are front end cost involved to produce a Bugle that would be shared by all BCA members.

I believe there are some that think an electronic Bugle would be free.

Please consider that to produce the electronic version (which is used to print the hard copy)

There is the Editors salary and layout charges.

As an example, from BCA documents that are about 18 months old, the total cost per month to produce the Bugle was $19,000 of that, about 27% was layout and editors salary, the rest was the printing charge (which varies with the number of Bugles printed)

The $19,000 does NOT include mailing.

In this example there is just over $5,000 per month for layout and editor that must be passed on to every BCA member, even if they get an electronic version.

Someone also noted that if the number of printed Bugles drops, that can increase the cost per Bugle and that is correct.

The BCA office, working with the BCA Board keeps close track on BCA membership. Each month they only print the number of Bugles they need for members plus a small number for BCA promotion and replacement of Bugles damaged in the mail.

This cost is negotiated with the printer to get the best possible cost. There is front end loading .... layout, editor, and the cost at the printer to do the setup. So the more we print the cheaper each Bugle becomes.

[Guest El_Diablo]

I wouldn't stop the hard copy Bugle for several reasons.

Here is my suggestion for an electronic version: 1954 Buick Highway - BCA Bugle

Click on the headlines (for example "January 2009") to open an issue. Then you can go to fullscreen to have a better view. A double-click on a page on the right makes it bigger. Double click again and it gets smaller...

el D - Yes you can probably forward a PDF. But I can't see that happening a lot and it might be an easy way to recruit new members.

If you forward a PDF, do you ask a week later, if your friend liked it and needs more information about the BCA? The BCA needs a more professional way of marketing. With sending out emails you never know if and who reads your books. With an online book section (like the one above), its possible to see what people really like. Plus, the BCA could make trials - 3 month trial periods - for people interested in the BCA. Advantage: Those people need to register and the BCA gets the user email. With this, the BCA can make marketing and ask, if they liked the Bugle, if they would become a member, etc. Those people get a connection to the BCA (even if they don't become members).

Edited August 12, 2011 by El_Diablo (see edit history)

[Guest reatta1991]

I put my $.02 worth in on the other two topics, so might as well do it here!

If "paper copies are not going away any time soon", and if the electronic version is already being produced in order to have the Bugle printed, then emailing the electronic version would, at this point in time, be "free" and in addition to, not replacing, the printed Bugle. Or did I miss something?

That sounds OK...on its face. But since it seems there will be quite a few members who want the electronic version, eventually it may well cause the printed quantity to decrease, actually increasing the cost of the remaining printed Bugles.

Savings will only be significant through eliminating the printed Bugle, which IMHO is a big mistake.

1. The Bugle is a publicized benefit of membership. But if the change to electronic is made, members who rely on the printed Bugle because they can't, or don't choose to, use computers would be forced to go to the local print shop and pay extra to have their Bugle printed, or lose access to something they have already paid for. There can be all sorts of discussions of "how many are really out there" and "why can't they just use their tablet or iPhone if they don't want to use the computer?" But in reality, there are some folks out there who are electronically-challenged, and I maintain it's not right to eliminate their access to the Bugle or charge them extra for it.

2. Once you email the Bugle to members, they are free to distribute to their friends and relatives, who aren't members. Conceivably you could find a decrease in membership, on the theory of "why buy a cow if I can get the milk for free from (insert member's name here.)" If the electronic wizards working on this project find a way to restrict the document to being opened ONLY by the member's computer, that may be much less of an issue!

3. Depending on the size of the electronically-transmitted Bugle, some may find that certain email providers limit size of attachments. From my own experience, people can only send me about 3 hi res pictures (total about 8 meg). More than that and it doesn't get through to me. Returned emails and missing emails will be a full time headache for whomever sends them out, as will contacting people by phone or snail mail to get an accurate email address - people tend to abandon one ISP for another and don't bother to tell anyone.

4. The previously mentioned suggestion of posting the Bugle on the BCA server and providing passwords is a good idea, but also requires constant maintenance, and still doesn't eliminate "insert member's name here" from giving his password to a bunch of folks so they can check out the Bugle for free. Plus, if the honest member with a low BCA member number sells his car and retires from membership, he paid for Bugles for (insert number of years here) but they're on the BCA Office server. How can he still be given access to them, since he paid for those Bugles as a member until he retired? Or does he have to continue his membership to get that access?

5. I concur with the previously-expressed sentiment that chapter or SIG newsletters are OK to send by email, if the recipient prefers it. But printing costs are a lot less for newsletters, many of them contain a lot fewer and lower-quality pictures, they are typically shorter, and it's not quite as complicated to make them happen.

6. I concur with the mailing of electronic copies to foreign members, if this reduces their cost somewhat and may conceivably increase membership outside the US.

I'm off my soap box now - thanks for the opportunity to give my $.02 worth on this...guess it's a total of $.06 for all three! I will certainly be watching as events develop.

[50jetback]

Great subject this electronic Bugle.

Every time it gets trotted out we seem to go around in circles!!

Thanks to Barney and the BoD there was a trial run late last year which enabled remote BCA Members to have delivery ( electronically ) AT THE SAME TIME as everyone else.

The benefits of this to those remote members have already been discussed at length but in reality these " benefits " are only what members who get their Bugle in a timely manner already enjoy.

My view has always been that the supply of an electronic Bugle is ADDITIONAL to the hardcopy.

Like so many of you I enjoy my hardcopy on the coffee table, refer to past copies frequently and would never consider not receiving it.

BUT, I have no problem paying an additional fee to receive the electronic version at the same time as the rest of the membership receives the hard copy.

I also think the marketing suggestions made by El Diablo have real merit and are worthy of consideration by the Board.

[bhclark]

Don't throw away those Bugles! Drop them off at the Doctors office, senior center, high school and community library. Anything to get them into the hands of others that may enjoy seeing a copy and join the BCA to get more!

[stealthbob]

Mine go to my lunch room at work...

I love it when I see my buds reading them!

[Guest reatta1991]

Great idea on the lunchroom.

We're moving, and I took some of the older ones to a library and a senior center, plus a couple of independent living places...where I saw a couple of Buicks in the parking lot. Never know where you'll find someone interested in becoming a member.

[Guest wildcat465]

Throwing out a Bugle is a missed opportunity to recruit a new member. Bring the unwanted ones to an event and share. The worries that a non-member seeing a Bugle is silly. Show them to non-members, and make them a member!

[NTX5467]

I'm glad that, so far, the overseas trial of the electronic magazine has worked. It appears that the reception by those members has been what was desired. If the electronic's operative can improve it, so much the better.

As I recall, one of the key issues was to give our international members the same quick access to "For Sale" items as the USA members have. This can be a valid point if an international member might be seeking a particular vehicle which is "For Sale", but gone by the time they get their printed magazine "over there" or "down there". This puts them on a more level playing field with the USA membership, but even some parts of the USA get their magazine before others, so there can still be some inequity in this area . . . which is a normal part of magazine distribution on such a wide basis.

I suspect that some USA members might suspect that an electronic magazine would decrease their own BCA Membership rates, but I rather suspect that is NOT part if the equation here NOR should it be. Even if the mailing cost was subtracted, I suspect it would not make the sizeable "dent" in the membership cost many might desire. If the number of magazines printed dropped such that the unit cost was increased, then the BOD would be looking to shrink the magazine more than they already have (in size and in Editor's salary) to live within their established yearly budgets . . . we already know how the membership reacts to any mention of increasing BCA dues. Plus, we've already had one dues increase to try to maintain the magazine at its prior high quality levels and number of pages, so that reason can't be used again anytime soon.

To me, the only really reasonable solution would be to maintain the existing standard of minimum USA-area and international service to be that of the printed magazine for all BCA members, as it already is. The number of international members, by comparison, is reasonably small in comparison to the USA members, so the electronic versions might not add that much to the existing operating budget. If the USA members might also desire to receive the electronic version, than an appropriate addition maintenance fee could be charged, but then this TOO can depend upon the number of subscribers as it would relate to the fixed costs of operating the necessary equipment to make it happen . . . more subscribers, less cost, and vice versa. So we end up back with that old thing of "unit cost".

I'll admit that what I'm getting ready to mention, that I am not fully versed in it, but have made determinations of how I've seen things transpire with the addition of electronic media devices. Namely, it might be one thing to receive an email on your smartphone, tablet, iPad, or whatever, but I've also noticed that almost everybody that used to have electronic access to their websites now have apps for iPhones, iPads, tablets, and "readers". That sounds like extra developmental costs to me. Or could it be that it could be as easy as saving a Word file as a .pdf?

In another of my car club involvements, we've transitioned into posting our newsletters on a Hemmings-hosted website as .pdf files. We pondered if there was some way to determine the number of times the file could be downloaded by a particular password before it was blocked. It was determined that there was not a reliable (or possibly available) way to do that. We had the same concerns regarding our member newsletters getting "out there" to people we didn't authorize to receive them (i.e., unpaid members not a part of some marketing activity for the group). As I understand, a .pdf file can be edited from the version posted online, but it might take a significant expenditure in software to make that happen. So, basically, once the electronic file gets out, unless there is a way to reliably control it, the publisher has no real control over it, yet the publisher is supposed to "police" things to protect their own interests. Somebody might have some updated information, but it seems that when files "go public" on the Internet, you've got to be brave.

Perhaps getting an abbreviated email notification with a list of what's in the electronic version, rather than the full electronic version in the email, might work. Then the member could access the main server for the information without having to compromise their total email storage allotment with their respective email provider. As mentioned, this would allow a tally of how popular particular articles were, but if I get a print copy, I'll eventually read ALL of the articles, which helps broaden my knowledge of Buicks and what makes them work, rather than only focusing on things I perceive that I would be interested in.

While smartphones have been somewhat crammed down our throats and would require more expensive data transfer service options onto the standard "phone only" cellular contract, I feel it would be unreasonable to try to read an online magazine on such a small screen . . . providing you have a flip phone rather than a slilder or iPhone-type device. When I got my first smartphone (as a necessary upgrade due to the discontinuation of the prior type of service, in 2005), the main issue with the sales person was that my monthly fees not increase. Thankfully, he was a motivated salesperson AND was very knowledgeable at how to manipulate the contract setting to turn off the features I didn't need or want (at that time) to maintain my prior payment level. When that phone failed earlier this year, I told the salesperson it was necessary that my monthly rates not increase . . . and she made it happen again, just swapping the SIM card and activating the new phone. Many current phones might have more power than an older personal computer, but using them on the provided screen just seems flaky to me, especially in trying to look at the great pictures in the magazine.

Sometimes, it seems that we'll compromise the quality of what we see (basically, in the size of the display compared to a 15.6" laptop wide screen display or a full-blown pc with a 23" widescreen display) just for the convenience of being able to do it where ever we might be. Be that as it may . . .

Every time the discussion of electronic delivery of the magazine is presented in here, we've seen the same "For" comments, with all due respect, each time. We also need to be fully cognizant that many members are not openly Internet literate or do not use their computers for reading magazines on them. AND those members might not be active in this forum, for whatever reason. In 15 or 20 years, I suspect the number of Internet-challenged BCA members might be much smaller, just as the number of BCA members who don't have reliable access to DSL, cable, or (want to pay for) 2-way satellite Internet access will also be much smaller. BUT we're not there yet.

I know that more recent computers are very inexpensive compared to earlier times, but some might not feel the need to spend several hundred dollars for a new laptop or computer, much less an iPad, just to look at the BCA magazine when their old Pentium III machine is still working well for them, to which they could add a new flatscreen display for a more reasonable price.

Therefore, my recommendation would be to keep the hard copy magazine as it is, being sent to all USA and international members. Allow the international members the option of also receiving an electronic copy (as the trial was configured) so they'll be on the level playing field with regard to classified ads in the magazine (which was one of the original intents of the electronic version).

I might also add that Europe and other areas seem to be more highly-evolved in their Internet access and speeds thereof, in comparison to the United States. Another area where we seem to have fallen behind. Therefore, what might be "a snap" to download in Europe might take quite some time in the USA. Probably similar to USA (fastest) DSL compared to 33.6 dialup.

Regards,

Willis Bell 20811

[bhclark]

NTX...I would add that international shipping is outrageous and I think those members should be able to opt for just an electronic copy if they so wish, reducing their membership fee to that of a domestic member if they choose that option.

[Barney Eaton]

Willis, the reason we seldom hear from those opposed to the electronic version....... they are not on this forum because they do not have a computer.

This forum only reaches an unknown percent of the BCA members, unless there is something published in the Bugle, not every member of the BCA will know it (the electronic version) is even an exercise.

[NTX5467]

Willis, the reason we seldom hear from those opposed to the electronic version....... they are not on this forum because they do not have a computer.

This forum only reaches an unknown percent of the BCA members, unless there is something published in the Bugle, not every member of the BCA will know it (the electronic version) is even an exercise.

I concur. With all due respect, the total "wide angle vision" 3-D X-ray glasses MUST be employed in an issue such as this.

Regarding international postage rates . . . might the USPS have a "If it fits, it ships (for one low rate)" international situation? Might it be possible to designate a particular shipping contractor (since UPS is international, or possibly DHL) where a discounted "mass mail" rate might be negotiated? Just curious . . . I know there are "consolidaters" which arrange wholesale shipping accounts for UPS with businesses. If you call UPS to inquire about shipping charges, they'll refer you back to your wholesale account rep's company to see what THEY are going to charge for the particular shipment. Just curious . . .

And the discussion continues . . .

Enjoy!

NTX5467

[old-tank]

Here is my suggestion for an electronic version: 1954 Buick Highway - BCA Bugle

The Buick Bugle is Copyrighted Material and cannot be used like this without permission. We appreciate your efforts, but you should probably remove it from your server to avoid trouble.

Willie

[Guest El_Diablo]

Maybe it has a copyright. But there is no sentence that forbids digitalization. I will build up my own personal Bugle archive (reading permission only for ME)... so that I can read every issue WHERE and WHEN and HOW I'd like to do it...

Disappointing what happens if someone wants to help.

[Thriller]

reatta1991 - your points 2 and (to a degree) 4 are no different with an electronic version than a hard copy. Nothing is stopping me from giving away copies of the Bugle, and has been noted, many do, not necessarily to circumvent BCA membership, but to places where they will be appreciated. At the doctor's office, when you have choice of a year old copy of SI, a 2 year old copy of Field & Stream, and a 6 month old copy of Time, wouldn't you be interested in something relatively timeless like a car magazine?

To my knowledge, there is no stopping a paid membership / subscription until it runs out. I could see if a single member moves or passes away and the mail starts getting returned, but if you *gasp* sell your Buick(s) (what is that like anyway?) I'm not aware that there is a provision for stopping membership and getting a pro-rated return. Of course, I could be wrong on that.

One alternative, that I don't recall if it has been discussed, would be that since the timing is really about the classified ads, that they be made available electronically to any members who want, while waiting for the hard copy Bugle to arrive. That eliminates the issue of international members looking for something not being aware of the ads until after a deal may already have been made. Most people on the paper / electronic argument still want the hard copy, unless there is a reduction in costs associated with foregoing the paper version.

As I stated earlier, I had trouble with receiving the electronic version...so much has been put online to block spam / mass mailings that I wasn't getting it...it wasn't the size as the national office could send it to me fine if I asked and they e-mailed it to just me. From that perspective at least, some sort of hosted solution would be nice, although it would be nice to have an option to download an electronic version for when one is off-line (yes, that still happens).

Just a few more thoughts from north of 49.

[NTX5467]

When investigating copyrights and trade marks/service marks . . . it was discovered that although such "rights" are supposed to deter others from unauthorized copying (and possibly distribution) of these works, it is up to the holder of these copyrights and trade marks/service marks to control the use of their properties. If these property rights are not monitored by the rights holder, with appropriate action taken against those who might try to use these properties as "their own", then I suspect few courts would uphold any litigation against such property theft and use. Not unlike a person owning a piece of property they used for hunting out in the boondocks. Then they happen out there for a weekend to discover new locks on the gates and a "residence" habitated by unknown persons. Further checks reveal that the unknown persons filed for a deed to the property (due to active habitation and "possession") and now own the (previously abandoned) property . . . legally. This can happen in a few states, as I've been told, not just from a back-tax land auction.

Until there's a way to limit the number of downloads which an electronic file can endure after its sent to one email address, no real way to control the file after you send it. Of course, if the file is openned in the email and read, with that "one time" openning, it could then be downloaded, saved, and then forwarded again, I suspect.

It would take some serious "damages" to be financially viable to pursue such a situation, although it was known who the files were sent to initially. In order to get to the ultimate "end forwarder", it would take some actions covered by the ultra-fine print in your Internet provider's "Terms of Use" statement, which everyone has to agree to to receive Internet service. Still, though, it's up to the "rights owner" to police the use of their property.

In some respects, giving non-members access to things can be something of a marketing activity for prospective members. Handing out printed magazines (in their entirety) would not be the same thing as giving them free access to a members-only server link or email message.

As the digital version of the magazine was on a trial basis, the appropriate language regarding the ownership of the particular "property" was not included in those files? I would hope that if and when the real versions become available, such things would be reviewed and upgraded.

Regards,

NTX5467

[stealthbob]

I believe your concerns would be covered with this method...

The PDF via E-Mail is nice, but once its published, you can't control it... everyone could forward it.

I would do it similar as we did it on 1954buick.com: 1954 Buick Highway - Technical Instructions / Manuals

The Bugles could be set up as content section and only forum members with permission (=paid subscription) can access it.

Advantages:

- No mass E-Mailing (and getting failures with broken E-Mail addresses), no conflicts with Spam rules

- With more issues, it would be a great online archive of the Bugle

- Its always available - even on mobile devices (Samsung Galaxy Tab, iPad, etc)

- Payment: Its possible to pay with PayPal (I can't become a member of the BCA, because I don't have a credit card)

Let me know if I can help...

Unfortunately the idea and the offer to assist in developing the idea has been dismissed due to concerns in the way the idea was presented and displayed. Strange....there's little comment on the idea itself?

Disappointing but we move on...

I hope we will still try to see this trial through in some form, it was nice to be able to take part in the discussion on some of the Bugle stories while waiting for my Bugle to arrive some 4 weeks later.

[Bill Stoneberg]

Speaking as the person who is doing the work, in amongst my real job and family obligations, we are working on this and it will be available.

We have a time frame for implementation and are working towards that. We still have some work to do to protect our intellectual property and make it a good experience for all involved. You do want to be able to read the ads and have good quality pictures dont you ?

Dont forget there is a 2 - 3 month lead time for the Bugle and we dont want to ruin all the surprises....

[50jetback]

Speaking as the person who is doing the work, in amongst my real job and family obligations, we are working on this and it will be available.

We have a time frame for implementation and are working towards that. We still have some work to do to protect our intellectual property and make it a good experience for all involved. You do want to be able to read the ads and have good quality pictures dont you ?

Dont forget there is a 2 - 3 month lead time for the Bugle and we dont want to ruin all the surprises....

Well done Bill, your efforts are appreciated!