do you take care of your car?

[mastertech]

I work in a chrysler dealer ship and the reason i ask this is because i have noticed a trend the last few months, I would say appx 65 % of the people that bring in their cars for work dont want mantiance work done! I had one today said that the ac didnt work and the speedo didnt work and the engine was makeing a ticking noise, well tha condensor had a hole in it the speedo just need reset check the oil it was down appx 2 qt and looked as if it hadent been changed in 10k miles air filter was pluged checked the plugs and the gap was over .090 now this car had 54k on it owner said never had any thing done to it since it was new. all he wanted done was the ac fixed nevermind the oil dont even top it off as that couldn cause the noise and it runs just fine so dont replace the plugs. just fix the ac. Now this isnt the first one i have had in last few months anytime you say maintance they dont wont do any thing about it then in a few months in they come wiht a problem saying i just had in a while back whay wasent it fixed? I thake care of my cars follow the mantince guide oil change 3k pluge when it says fluid changes when is says. I just dont get some people dont take care of them then complain when it quits its the worse car i ever owned, till its time to trade it in then is the best i ever owned.

so do you keep up on your mantiance?

[Rusty_OToole]

Right now a lot of people are hurting for money.Unemployment is high. One American in seven is on food stamps.

Could be a lot of customers have lost their jobs and are trying to struggle through the next week or month, hoping something turns up.

Then again modern cars need so little maintenance they think they can get away with none at all. And they can as long as they trade the car in before it blows sky high.

[michel88]

I am a firm believer in maintenance especially oil and filter changes. Pay me now or pay me later ($$$) was an add campaign that was the truth. My daily driver is a 95 Honda Accord that we bought new for my wife. It has always been maintained and still runs excellent with about 225K on it.

I can't believe that guy not even wanting to bring the oil to full but just fix the A/C. Wonder how that one is going to work out especially with the A/C putting a strain on the engine with the oil being low.

[Guest Oldengineer]

I'm a firm believer in keeping up with the maintenance on my cars. I do most of the work myself. My neighbors, most of whom are much younger than me, are amazed that I do my own wrenching. Most are about as mechanically inept as you can get. With money tight, lunching the engine on your ride is not a good game plan.

Regards:

Oldengineer

2011 Mercedes Benz GLK350 4Matic

2010 Honda CRV

1948 Chevrolet Fleetmaster Town Sedan

[ghostymosty]

I think the mentality is: Lease the car and get rid of it at just under 60,000 miles, no timing belt changes, change the oil right when you turn it back in so it looks OK, let the next guy worry about spending money on the car to keep it on the road.

Today's oil can easily go 7500 miles between changes as long as you don't just do short trip driving so that 3000 miles change isn't necessary, my Valvoline gets changed by color changes-usually at about 4000 miles when it isn't very see thru anymore but is still very golden colored. I've noticed that other brands get darker faster with Quaker State changing to too dark at about 2500 miles.

[TexRiv_63]

A large percentage of car owners see their car as an appliance, like a toaster or a vacuum cleaner. They use it until it breaks and then they get a new appliance. The switch to self-service gasoline eliminated someone to check basics like oil level and tire pressure, have you noticed how many cars you see on the road with visibly underinflated tires? I'm sure there are just as many with unchanged oil below the full mark. I have the dealer do all recommended maintenance on a car under warranty and I do my own on everything else. I also taught both of my sons to take care of their cars and they do, although neither does the work themselves.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Two thoughts come to mind here from the viewpoint of someone who enjoys new cars as well as old:

1) You really cannot defer basic maintenance on a leased vehicle, or you will be responsible for the damages. Smart companies like BMW (whose product is largely leased first time around due to cost) roll that expense right iinto the lease. Personally I think that works well for initial driver and next one to come along (me). I now look for the short term leased vehicle when buying. You take a chance to some degree on any used car, but if it feels right, and is warenteed further, it really cuts down the risk.

2) Yes, less maintenance is good on one hand, but dealer then looks for ways to keep revenue stream coming in on service side. Pretty common to get "Maintenance Guides" that require more trips and services than really necessary. That, along with reputaiton car dealers have with the public make people wary of overspending on maintenance. Take the time to read the factory owner's manual and skip the dealers marketing mailings. Follow what mfg. says and you should be fine!

Having said that, I think deferred maintenance is not a good thing even if you own a car you plan to dump - plans can change, it can bite you before you get rid of the car, etc. Plus, if cared for properly today, you can literally run a car to 200K without breaking the bank or driving something that feels like it is going to fall apart. What Mastertech describes is someone who is just plain stupid, and lucky they averted an expensive engine job or similar.

[Ron Green]

Most who defer their vehicle maintenance are typically the same ones who need to buy a new lawnmower or snow blower every few years for the same lack of maintenance, and the understanding of why it is so important. Granted the economy has a little to do with it in today’s world however the percentage of those who do zero maintenance probably isn’t all the different from 5 years ago. Unfortunately few ever read the “manual”

I am the only one in our neighborhood that has a shop with tools, a compressor, etc. My neighbor was running his car without a serpentine belt and was puzzled as to why it was overheating (90K never serviced). Few understand anything mechanical and many push their non running “yard appliances” over for me to check out. I always ask them when the last time they changed oil and most respond, “you mean there’s oil it there”! I become the god of mechanical “appliances” when I sharpen their mower blades, clean their fuel and air filter and sandblast their sparkplug.

[West Peterson]

If I weren't a do-it-yourselfer, too, I'd want to live next to you. Well, maybe I'd want to anyway, but you get the point. Your comment about "there's oil in there?" made me wonder how many people with 2-cycle engines don't add oil to their gas???

[poci1957]

Most who defer their vehicle maintenance are typically the same ones who need to buy a new lawnmower or snow blower every few years for the same lack of maintenance, and the understanding of why it is so important. Granted the economy has a little to do with it in today’s world however the percentage of those who do zero maintenance probably isn’t all the different from 5 years ago. Unfortunately few ever read the “manual”

I am the only one in our neighborhood that has a shop with tools, a compressor, etc. My neighbor was running his car without a serpentine belt and was puzzled as to why it was overheating (90K never serviced). Few understand anything mechanical and many push their non running “yard appliances” over for me to check out. I always ask them when the last time they changed oil and most respond, “you mean there’s oil it there”! I become the god of mechanical “appliances” when I sharpen their mower blades, clean their fuel and air filter and sandblast their sparkplug.

Ron says it all right here, as does TexRiv above. No one reads the manual, no one does any maintenance on anything and appliances are to be used and thrown away. Think about how many of us here were taught to do basics like oil changes and check tires by our parents or some adult when we were kids. No one is doing that anymore since parents are either not around or never learned these things themselves. In fact I think that in some circles learning such mechanical skills are thought to be downscale and to be avoided.

It is a credit to the automakers that they have designed cars to be so maintenance free--and they really are--but I can second what mastertech says, no one can be bothered anymore. Todd C

[rocketraider]

I try to keep up maintenance because I'm not fond of big repair bills or major failures, but I find myself in position of sometimes not having the time to do it myself, or of being able to get the vehicle to a garage.

Consequently when I do get some vacation, a lot of it is spent catching up maintenance on everything. This week has been: check engine light on the Mercury, oil change and fuel system cleaning on the truck, oil change and blade sharpen on all the lawnmowers, and airconditioning on the wagon- all of which have been put off for in some cases weeks. Some vacation, huh?

Used to be able to get an oil change or state inspection on a Saturday morning, but there is only one shop here now that opens on Saturday, 8-noon, and they are swamped. You'd think some of these other too-independent-for-their-own-good shops would see the opportunity, but they'd rather close up and go to the lake. I had one tell me a couple years back that weekends were his and he didn't intend to work them.

I said "what if I said that about the powerplant? what if emergency personnel said that about hospitals and ambulances?"

"That's different. They're gettin' paid and they're essential."

"So your business isn't essential?"

I left him sputtering. Haven't taken anything back to him either.

But yeah, putting off a $30 oil change is false economy in anyone's book, and running an engine low on oil is just asking for it. But a lot of people, if the car runs, that's all they're concerned about.

[Seldenguy]

Getting away from cars but along the lines of not doing maintenance is an example at our local transfer station. A lady comes in every three or four months and throws away her vacuum cleaner. The attendent asked her what the problem was and she replied the "bag was full". He tryed to help her but she was always "to busy to be monkeying with that thing" and bought a new one. The attendent dumps the bag cleans up the vacuum and passes it on to a needy person.---Bob

[rocketraider]

In fact I think that in some circles learning such mechanical skills are thought to be downscale and to be avoided.

Todd, right now I'm seeing that in the local school system. In their "budget crunch" they have eliminated most of the vocational training classes. Their justification? They see their mission as preparing kids for big-name four year schools.

The current deputy superintendent was a guidance counselor way back in the Stone Age when I was in high school. When they announced the cuts I asked him if he considered vocational training essential to keeping modern life running smoothly, since we have to have mechanics, carpenters, plumbers, electricians, HVAC technicians et al to accomplish that.

All I got was a deer in the headlights look. The guy had simply not stopped to consider anything like that.

The neighboring counties all have specialized Vo-Tech high schools in addition to the regular high schools, and the local community colleges and tech schools will all tell you students from this school system are usually at least a year behind students from the other schools in the skilled trades curriculums.

But hey, they had a kid get accepted to Harvard a couple years back, and I thought they were going to wet their pants. Never mind that kid couldn't change a light switch, but he'll make enough money with his Harvard education to pay someone to do it. Most likely a classmate he considered downscale and trash.

Edited July 21, 2011 by rocketraider
spellcheck! (see edit history)

[rocketraider]

Most who defer their vehicle maintenance are typically the same ones who need to buy a new lawnmower or snow blower every few years for the same lack of maintenance, and the understanding of why it is so important. Granted the economy has a little to do with it in today’s world however the percentage of those who do zero maintenance probably isn’t all the different from 5 years ago. Unfortunately few ever read the “manual”

I am the only one in our neighborhood that has a shop with tools, a compressor, etc. My neighbor was running his car without a serpentine belt and was puzzled as to why it was overheating (90K never serviced). Few understand anything mechanical and many push their non running “yard appliances” over for me to check out. I always ask them when the last time they changed oil and most respond, “you mean there’s oil it there”! I become the god of mechanical “appliances” when I sharpen their mower blades, clean their fuel and air filter and sandblast their sparkplug.

I worked with a college-educated guy who could never get more than a year out of a lawnmower. Bought one every year, and couldn't understand why everyone else was getting years of service out of their yard equipment. Someone finally asked him if he ever changed or checked the oil. "It has oil in it?" Turns out that not only had he never checked it, he had never put any in them other than the shipping oil. Don't even think about checking the air filter- which BTW I need to do:o.

They walk among us.

But as in the case of the lady with the vacuum cleaner, they stimulate the economy, and often someone who needs it gets a perfectly good appliance because the original owner was a wastrel. Or, I suspect, too stupid to be able to change her filter bag. Seems to me that in the time it would take to go to WalMart or Sears to buy a new vacuum, she could have changed out the filter bag several times.

Edited July 22, 2011 by rocketraider (see edit history)

[DNC]

I do the basic service on all my cars. Taking care of my car is almost an illness for me. I over do everything. With my newer cars it has taken me years to go from a 3,000 miles between oil changes to 5,000 miles between oil changes., and that's using synthetic oil (Mobil 1). On all my cars, new and old, I flush and replace coolant and brake fluid every two years.

I am sure the person who buys a newer car and never services it, then waits until something must be done, probably comes out cheaper than I do given the time value of money. But for me there is peace of mind in knowing my car is less likely have an inconvenient unscheduled trip to the shop, will be best prepared for an emergency trip, and hopefully an added element of safety.

[Ron Green]

One of my neighbors buys a new snow blower every 2 to 3 years. He wonders why it doesn’t run when they need it in the winter. It sits outside year around uncovered, zero maintenance and the gas turns to varnish. They shake their heads when I tell them mine is of 1986 vintage and runs like new.

Another neighbor was over this week, she just had the dealer install new brakes and rotors. She didn’t know what the horrible screeching metal to metal sound might be for the past month so if you keep driving it maybe it will go away. This is the same lady that I recently replaced her gas power edger blade as she was having a difficult time getting it to cut properly, seems the 9” blade was down to 2” from edging the concrete.

There is a reason why my shop was built with no windows: I can’t see out, but they can’t see in.

[poci1957]

They see their mission as preparing kids for big-name four year schools.

I asked him if he considered vocational training essential to keeping modern life running smoothly, since we have to have mechanics, carpenters, plumbers, electricians, HVAC technicians et al to accomplish that.

Never mind that kid couldn't change a light switch, but he'll make enough money with his Harvard education to pay someone to do it. Most likely a classmate he considered downscale and trash.

Hi Glenn, this has indeed been the prevailing thought for years now, but I suspect the current recession has some people rethinking that. I support a person educating themselves as much as possible, but how many of us know someone in their twenties or older with a degree, but with $50,000 in student loans who can only get a job at Starbucks or somewhere? That degree in the hands of a kid with no other practical skills has no longer proven to automatically lead to a job. But in my area when I need a roof or plumbing that voc-tech guy's services will cost me dearly and if I am unwilling he doesn't care since he has more work than he can handle already, kind of like your mechanic. Tell your kids and grandchildren that "laborer" or mechanic may end up making more than the university guy, Todd C

[Steve Braverman]

Todd, right now I'm seeing that in the local school system. In their "budget crunch" they have eliminated most of the vocational training classes. Their justification? They see their mission as preparing kids for big-name four year schools.

I am a "shop" teacher. Although today I am referred to as a "technology" teacher. I try to give my eighth graders basic skills with tools. Many have never held a screwdriver, and the girls are usually better students than the boys.

Everyone should read this book: Shop Class as Soulcraft by Matthew B. Crawford

[poci1957]

Looks interesting and relevant to the topic, thanks Steve!

[mastertech]

I like Steve who is a "shop" teacher I am a mechanic but i am refered to as an auto tech. I may have more training than a collage grad, I have at the least 4 classes a month to go to usually on line courses to work in a dealership and do any type of heavey type work I must maintain a level 4 status. these web base classes are structrued like collage courses I have pre tests and post test that must be passed its is all reported to chrysler, these are not free either 150.00 a test. plus at times i must go to a "live class" at the training center then finish up on line. Plus i have 10 ASE certifactions and also have to have a state inspection licence. So steve keep up being a shop teacher we need all the good mechanics we can get. now if we could get ride of the few kids tha come fron these tech schools that think that when they get out they know everything and want big bucks right out of the gate,but thats another story.

[Aaron65]

Todd, right now I'm seeing that in the local school system. In their "budget crunch" they have eliminated most of the vocational training classes. Their justification? They see their mission as preparing kids for big-name four year schools.

The current deputy superintendent was a guidance counselor way back in the Stone Age when I was in high school. When they announced the cuts I asked him if he considered vocational training essential to keeping modern life running smoothly, since we have to have mechanics, carpenters, plumbers, electricians, HVAC technicians et al to accomplish that.

All I got was a deer in the headlights look. The guy had simply not stopped to consider anything like that.

The neighboring counties all have specialized Vo-Tech high schools in addition to the regular high schools, and the local community colleges and tech schools will all tell you students from this school system are usually at least a year behind students from the other schools in the skilled trades curriculums.

But hey, they had a kid get accepted to Harvard a couple years back, and I thought they were going to wet their pants. Never mind that kid couldn't change a light switch, but he'll make enough money with his Harvard education to pay someone to do it. Most likely a classmate he considered downscale and trash.

I'm a high school teacher, and I totally agree...luckily, our school works with a very good Intermediate School District with lots of vocational ed programs, but it sure isn't pushed in schools anymore. The days of 4 sections of auto shop like when my father-in-law was in school are over, unfortunately.

[Dave@Moon]

A reading of the obvious, from today's "news":

How to Kill a Car - Yahoo! Autos

[D Yaros]

I indeed maintain all my rides myself, be they old or knew. With the new it is much more complicated, and the multi-volume service manuals cost buku bucks, but I enjoy it. What I can't do, I let the pros handle.

[Guest Old48Truck]

mastertech, you make excellent points about maintenance, but there's possibly another factor at work here. Dealerships. Dealerships are very often way more expensive for maintenance items than independent shops. Even if they're not (unlikely), the dealers have found several ways to make themselves suspected of overcharging.

When a new car is purchased, what happens? Before the purchaser is finished, he's sheparded into the "closers" office, where there's pressure to purchase paint protectant, fabric protectant, an extended warranty, etc. Dealer packs. Because of the Internet, people are more aware of these as being not much more than pure profit for the dealer. Then, when it's time to have some maintenance done, they think, "Hmm..if they tried to get my money at the sales end, what will they try at the service department?

This having been said, the person in your example is obviously just one who doesn't maintain a vehicle.

The person in your example is just one who abuses his vehicle, however.

[Rusty_OToole]

Todd, right now I'm seeing that in the local school system. In their "budget crunch" they have eliminated most of the vocational training classes. Their justification? They see their mission as preparing kids for big-name four year schools.

The current deputy superintendent was a guidance counselor way back in the Stone Age when I was in high school. When they announced the cuts I asked him if he considered vocational training essential to keeping modern life running smoothly, since we have to have mechanics, carpenters, plumbers, electricians, HVAC technicians et al to accomplish that.

All I got was a deer in the headlights look. The guy had simply not stopped to consider anything like that.

The neighboring counties all have specialized Vo-Tech high schools in addition to the regular high schools, and the local community colleges and tech schools will all tell you students from this school system are usually at least a year behind students from the other schools in the skilled trades curriculums.

But hey, they had a kid get accepted to Harvard a couple years back, and I thought they were going to wet their pants. Never mind that kid couldn't change a light switch, but he'll make enough money with his Harvard education to pay someone to do it. Most likely a classmate he considered downscale and trash.

Another empty dream.The education system today is all about milking the suckers, I mean students, into paying big money, mostly borrowed, for a worthless degree.

There are thousands of graduates each year who cant find a job or if they are lucky find a low paid job the could have done with a high school diploma. Except they are starting out in life with $1OO,OOO in student loan debt that they cannot repay, and that they cannot escape even by bankruptcy.

[poci1957]

Another empty dream.The education system today is all about milking the suckers, I mean students, into paying big money, mostly borrowed, for a worthless degree.

There are thousands of graduates each year who cant find a job or if they are lucky find a low paid job the could have done with a high school diploma. Except they are starting out in life with $1OO,OOO in student loan debt that they cannot repay, and that they cannot escape even by bankruptcy.

Yup, I hate that it has come to that but it sure looks that way to me, unless you have specific training to be a nuclear engineer or something. But if you paid your $100,000 for a degree in art history with a minor in Star Trek (I am not kidding, Google it) then you have made a poor economic decision.

[Guest]

Another empty dream.The education system today is all about milking the suckers, I mean students, into paying big money, mostly borrowed, for a worthless degree.

There are thousands of graduates each year who cant find a job or if they are lucky find a low paid job the could have done with a high school diploma. Except they are starting out in life with $1OO,OOO in student loan debt that they cannot repay, and that they cannot escape even by bankruptcy.

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And to top that off some of those kids can't even do simple math, or even figure out how to make decent composition, spelling, grammar. How bad do you think it looks on your resume if you can't even spell with spell check staring you in the face from your computer???

I was trying to show my twelve year old granddaughter how to make a bird house last week. I said lets start with a road map-lets draw up full scale drawings ( now I know you don't really need this for a bird house ) so you can see how other things like buildings, cars, ect. are made from ideas to paper and from paper to reality. She had a problems with fractions, decimals, and couldn't figure half of seven inches was three and a half. I told our daughter in law she had better get busy with this girl because the schools are not doing their job. If the schools don't teach your kids, as parents you still have the responsibility to provide a education even if it means teaching them yourself. Besides you will know your kids, and relate to them much better if you do. Always be involved.

Yes, I maintain all of my cars (seven), and every car has a log book of history, and future timetable for various types of maintenance needed.

Don

[poci1957]

Don, let me lay this thought on you. I was recently reading an article somewhere (that I do not recall) and the writer talked of his admiration for people who make things. He posited a thought that regardless of your craft, be it metal, wood or upholstery, the basics of layout and measurement, cutting and fitting all are a similar discipline. I had never thought of this so basically before, but he is right. If you learn how to do some kind of handiwork your skills can easily transfer over to the other areas. But if you do not know how to do anything, like most suburban kids now, you are shut out of it all. What do you think? Todd C

[Guest tcuda340]

mastertech, you make excellent points about maintenance, but there's possibly another factor at work here. Dealerships. Dealerships are very often way more expensive for maintenance items than independent shops. Even if they're not (unlikely), the dealers have found several ways to make themselves suspected of overcharging.

.

Like mastertech, I also wrench at a Chrysler dealership. Dealerships have gotten very competitive in the last 10 years on pricing. Many times the factory parts are cheaper AND better then the aftermarket ones. It's just another untrue stereotype of dealerships that will never die.

[Guest]

Don, let me lay this thought on you. I was recently reading an article somewhere (that I do not recall) and the writer talked of his admiration for people who make things. He posited a thought that regardless of your craft, be it metal, wood or upholstery, the basics of layout and measurement, cutting and fitting all are a similar discipline. I had never thought of this so basically before, but he is right. If you learn how to do some kind of handiwork your skills can easily transfer over to the other areas. But if you do not know how to do anything, like most suburban kids now, you are shut out of it all. What do you think? Todd C

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Hi Todd, good to hear from you. I think you are right. I must say if you know what your kids are doing or not doing in school you have a responsibility to get involved and show them. It's sad some schools don't have a industrial arts program for all kids to have to go through. When I was in junior high ( 7-9th grade) all the boys had to go through electric, metal, drafting, wood, and print shops. High school was Auto, welding, print, wood, drafting, electric, metal shops. In addition to all the regular courses like math, english, history, geography, science, PE, we all had to have a foreign language starting in the 9th grade. That was the L.A. city school district----try that district today!

Don

[Steve_Mack_CT]

The delaership thing is a double edged sword. I bring my cars to the dealer because I believe there is a plus in having the guys who work on the same car day in and day out work on your car. But every dealership I have done business with regardless of make tries to upsell from time of purchase as mentioned above and ongoing in the service dept. The BMW "Finance guy" could not understand why I did not buy key insurance costing $300 on keys that may never get lost, as I have yet to lose a set of car keys even with the remote clicker that is no doubt ridiculasly overpriced.

Been following this with interest but I think if the basic question is do you believe it is worthwhile to maintain your car - it does not matter whether you do it or have it done. The car does not care assuming either method is competent. It is about respecting and protecting your investment. I enjoy maintianing and repairing the old stuff as a hobby. I hope by maintaining the new stuff I can minimize repairs and headaches, and maximize the eventual sell price. really just common sense but it is hard to argue that the throw away mentality is more common these days. Cars are just a larger example of the same.

Helps to buy quality up front as well, even if it costs a little more as some products seem like they are now made to accomodate the throw away mentality. I have a Honda mower at home I maintain - carb has never been apart, basically oil, plug cleaning/replace as needed and sharpening blade 2x per season each item. We bought this sometime during ownership of our first house, and have been in our second house for 15 years - not a bad machine, eh?

[Guest Old48Truck]

Like mastertech, I also wrench at a Chrysler dealership. Dealerships have gotten very competitive in the last 10 years on pricing. Many times the factory parts are cheaper AND better then the aftermarket ones. It's just another untrue stereotype of dealerships that will never die.

tcuda, I just had work done at a Dodge deealership on my '09 Caravan. At 22,000 miles, the right rear brake shoe went sideways and mucked up everything. The dealer said the slides weren't lubricated. They covered the parts (pads and two rotors) under warranty (what warranty wasn't specified) and 'only' charged me for labor - to the tune of $194! We both know Chrysler has had a lot of trouble with minivan brakes in '08 and '09. There's a baisc design or parts problem they should address, but don't seem willing to. Anyway, do you honestly thing $194 in labor for putting on two rotors and pads is competitive? Second, if the parts were covered by warranty, why wasn't the labor?

[bhclark]

2000 was the third and last straw for us on Chrylser minivans. Low initial cost=high maintenance costs. front ends, brakes, motor mounts, all seemed to be made of parts designed to disintegrate on an annual basis. Switched to Kia with a 2003 and had zero issues other than routine maintenance for 5 years before we upgraded to a 1996 Roadmaster wagon this year.

I do basic maintenance on my older cars, oil changes, shocks, motor mounts, tune-ups, etc. But I don't do engines, transmissions, rear ends, etc. Also, for things like coolant flushes, I go to the mechanic....for $80 is just doesn't make sense for me to have to deal with flushing it and disposing of the resultant mess.

On my newer cars, they go to the mechanic, but not the dealer, unless it's a warranty issue. For $30 or less, it doesn't make sense to even change the oil myself, especially when sometimes the filter is in an incredibly difficult place to get to.

I just now started doing my own brakes on my newer cars, thanks to the money crunch. Disc brakes always scared me, but I can't believe how much I am saving and probably using higher quality parts too.

Transverse axles are a PITA....They wanted over $500 to change the plugs on the KIA minivan before I sold it because it's virtually impossible to even get to the rear plugs. I changed the front 3 and called it good!

For the first time in my life, I am keeping a "new" car past 5 years, so I did hand over a good chunk of cash for the 60,000 mile service (at 80,000) miles on my Hyundai Sonata. Plugs (again, intake has to be removed to get to them??). timing belt (might as well do the water pump while you're in there), coolant, etc. I've always traded the cars in before any of this went bad, but this car I love and we'll be driving it into the ground. Have the new rotors and pads on the kitchen counter right now waiting for the weather to cool off.

[Guest]

tcuda, I just had work done at a Dodge deealership on my '09 Caravan. At 22,000 miles, the right rear brake shoe went sideways and mucked up everything. The dealer said the slides weren't lubricated. They covered the parts (pads and two rotors) under warranty (what warranty wasn't specified) and 'only' charged me for labor - to the tune of $194! We both know Chrysler has had a lot of trouble with minivan brakes in '08 and '09. There's a baisc design or parts problem they should address, but don't seem willing to. Anyway, do you honestly thing $194 in labor for putting on two rotors and pads is competitive? Second, if the parts were covered by warranty, why wasn't the labor?

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Just curious, What did the service manager say when you talked to him about the labor charge? Did you ask if there were any TSB'S on your model and if you could see them? Have you contacted Chrysler Corp. Consumer Affairs to ask about the charge?

Don

[mastertech]

let me check something on that I think it should have only been 100.00 but not sure there is also a goodwill warrenty that the dealership can do with no cost to the customer. but there is also a new part out too fix the problem need to replace the bracket that holds the pads. I do know that there is a tsb on the front brakes

[Guest Old48Truck]

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Just curious, What did the service manager say when you talked to him about the labor charge? Did you ask if there were any TSB'S on your model and if you could see them? Have you contacted Chrysler Corp. Consumer Affairs to ask about the charge?

Don

I didn't discuss things with the service manager. My bad. Nor have I contacted Chrysler's Consumer Affairs. I probably should. I assume the information is in the Owner's Manual. I didn't ask about TSB's, either. I suspect there isn't one, tcuda might have mentioned it..

Thanks for the suggestions.

[Dandy Dave]

Joe Public's lack of mechanical skill, and basic mantainance sense, has been my job security for many, many years. I hope he does not get to smart too soon or I will have to put away/ sell off my tools and retire poor and broke! Dandy Dave!

[rocketraider]

Dandy Dave, as long as there are people with machines, I don't think you have to worry about that.

One of my cousins is a BMW tech. He makes good money fixing Beemers that people have not maintained, and he says the most profitable jobs are from recent college graduates who do not know so much as how to check their oil, and simply do not do any maintenance on their high-priced status symbol. Then when the Beemer breaks, what could have been a minor repair has suddenly escalated into thousands of dollars- which the twenty-something typically cannot pay. The car payment and insurance, plus basic living expenses, takes all their money. They're typically overextended on their plastic money too, so there you have someone who did not maintain what they have, and finds themselves walking.

He also says there's a reason no one but a BMW dealer will warrant any used BMW, and lack of maintenance figures into that.

[Guest tcuda340]

tcuda, I just had work done at a Dodge deealership on my '09 Caravan. At 22,000 miles, the right rear brake shoe went sideways and mucked up everything. The dealer said the slides weren't lubricated. They covered the parts (pads and two rotors) under warranty (what warranty wasn't specified) and 'only' charged me for labor - to the tune of $194! We both know Chrysler has had a lot of trouble with minivan brakes in '08 and '09. There's a baisc design or parts problem they should address, but don't seem willing to. Anyway, do you honestly thing $194 in labor for putting on two rotors and pads is competitive? Second, if the parts were covered by warranty, why wasn't the labor?

You're absolutely correct................that's not competitive but then you're comparing a dealerships labor rate against an independents and we all know the dealership will lose out every time. Our labor rate here is 85.00 an hour, 1 1/2 - 2 hours to install pads and rotors = 120 -170.00. What is the labor rate at the dealer you went to? Try comparing the prices for basic services like LOF, rotate, trans flush or even tires ( we're now competitive on tires) with the independents. Price out basic repair parts: shocks, struts, normal wear and tear items and see how close a dealer is in pricing. I know we'll never beat aftermarket 100% of the time but I think you'd be surprised how close the price difference is. We've called aftermarket when we don't have a part in stock and it's amazing how many times the factory part is cheaper or with in 10.00.

As far as why the didn't cover labor..................that's above my pay grade

[Guest Old48Truck]

I just got a flyer in the mail from the Dodge dealer. LOF is 19.95. You can't beat that. A/C "Check", $39.95. Batteries: 60 Series-$64.95; 72 Series-$69.95; 84 Series $79.95 - certainly competitive. Cooling System Drain/Replace, $47.95 All these are good prices, but I do LOF and the drain/replace myself. What's interesting is that I get the same flyer from a Chrysler Dealer less than a half mile from the Dodge dealer, and the prices are significantly higher.

You've also hit on one of my sensitive areas (as I get older, I have a lot more of those) - genuine (insert brand here) parts. When parts fail significantly earlier than they should, why would I want to replace them with the same manufacturer's part? It's gonna happen again. Yes, it's a total crap shoot, and chances are good that you'll be buying the same part with a different name on it -or worse - but I have to try.

As for the labor rate at the Dodge dealer, I THINK it's $129. I'll have to check next time I'm there for a warranty item. The invoice doesn't state how long the job took. It does state that it's a "One time good will repair." Not so much good will, in my opinion.

Edited July 23, 2011 by Old48Truck (see edit history)