Do Not Judge?

[msmazcol]

If a owner chooses to not have their vehicle judged at a show does the vehicle still get parked in the applicable class?

[MCHinson]

I have only seen a few cars entered as Do Not Judge, but they were parked in the appropriate class, so I would say the answer is yes.

[Vila]

I live approximately 30 miles from Hershey and drive my original 1933 Chevrolet to the fall show. Up until 2 years ago I always registered in class as Do Not Judge, and yes I was parked in class. Now I register and am certified in HPOF.

Personally I liked being Do Not Judge in class rather then HPOF. I used to have a lot of people restoring there cars ask me question since the car is mostly original and now that I am separated from the class it seems like I don't get many visitor asking those type of question.

Judging would be more difficult, but I personally think the HPOFs should be parked in class so my 1933 Chevrolet would be parked with the other Class 20B cars.

Visit my website at: Bob's Vintage Cars

Vila

1933 Chevrolet

1962 Triumph TR4

1984 BMW 633 CSi

[Restorer32]

I agree.

[Shop Rat]

..... Judging would be more difficult, but I personally think the HPOFs should be parked in class so my 1933 Chevrolet would be parked with the other Class 20B cars. .....

For many visitors that would be a great idea to have the HPOF vehicles in with the class they would be in if they were being judged. But for those evaluating the HPOF vehicles it would be a lot of ask of them especially at a Meet such as Hershey.

[Bhigdog]

So just be judged and you'll be where you want to be..............Bob

[Shop Rat]

Question, is there a price difference to register for a meet regarding Judged/HPOF/DPC vs. Do Not Judge? Bill and I judge but we don't have a car ready yet so this is not something we have had to deal with.

[Peter J.Heizmann]

Question, is there a price difference to register for a meet regarding Judged/HPOF/DPC vs. Do Not Judge? Bill and I judge but we don't have a car ready yet so this is not something we have had to deal with.

Susan.

I have never seen a "reduced registration fee" in the Judging Class for a DNJ.

My thoughts on this that have been shared by others, too, on the forum and in conversation at meets. Cannot confirm this however it has always been suspect that some DNJ vehicles in the Judging Classes enter at full registration price simply to "park" so they do not have to walk a bit from the spectator parking lots.

As for placing DNJ vehicles in the judging area I cannot understand why. The club instituted the DPC (Driver Participation Class) and HPOF (Historical Preservation of Original Features) to accomodate these very interesting vehicles.

My problem with DNJ is it causes more work for the judging teams not to mention confusion of specators not familiar with the AACA procedures. This is compounded at large meets.

Simply put, if one does not desire to have a vehicle judged then please participate in the applicable class (DPC or HPOF in this thread's topic). All the classes have been designed so everyone has a venue to show and chat.

Regards,

Peter.

[msmazcol]

Thanks everyone for the input. Here is my thinking. The next meet I will attend is here in the Chicago area.

My Olds has an HPOF and was the last one to attend a show. My Willys fire engine has a Senior on it. The fire engine has done as well as I could ever had thought it might.

I am currently very focused on my current restoration a 36 Divco. My time is spent working on the Divco and I'm just planning on a quick clean up to prep the fire engine for the show.

I will just be content to be at the show and enjoy the day. I'm not looking to have the Judges put forth their efforts when I'm not really trying my hardest to make a great showing.

I do like my class 23 though which is why I asked about parking.

MHO.

[Peter J.Heizmann]

Thanks everyone for the input. Here is my thinking. The next meet I will attend is here in the Chicago area.

My Olds has an HPOF and was the last one to attend a show. My Willys fire engine has a Senior on it. The fire engine has done as well as I could ever had thought it might.

I am currently very focused on my current restoration a 36 Divco. My time is spent working on the Divco and I'm just planning on a quick clean up to prep the fire engine for the show.

I will just be content to be at the show and enjoy the day. I'm not looking to have the Judges put forth their efforts when I'm not really trying my hardest to make a great showing.

I do like my class 23 though which is why I asked about parking.

MHO.

msmazol...Great!

By far I am not a Divco expert however Bob and Patti Giles are the epitomy of what a Divco stands for within milk delivery trucks. They have an absolutely beautiful Galliker's Dairy Divco and dress to the hilt with detailed attire. Hopefully Bob will chime in. If not send me a PM and I will get you in contact with him.

Regards,

Peter J.

[MCHinson]

If you are taking the Fire Truck, why not just enter it normally. You might as well let the judges do their job. You will more likely than not receive a Preservation Award. There is no reason that I can think of not to go ahead and have it judged.

[Shop Rat]

Peter,

Thank you very much for your answer and thoughts, which I agree with, on the subject of DNJ vehicles as well as the classes for HPOF and DPC vehicles.

[Ron Green]

If a owner chooses to not have their vehicle judged at a show does the vehicle still get parked in the applicable class?

Yes, I do this for my Amphicar since the paint color is non original however everything else is factory correct. I prefer to be with my class and not in DPC, plus the vehicle doesn’t qualify for HPOC.

[ted sweet]

DPC is usually at the far end of the show field. Great place to be if you want to basicly only talk to the other DPC car owners.

[61polara]

Starting in 2011, the HPOF and DPC cars are placed on the show field before the other classes rather than at the end.

[sambarn]

That's a fabulous idea, I was kinda miffed at Loiusville for being stuffed in the back corner in my 34 chevy and 61 cadillac, near cars from every known class including a beetle and a late 70s Mustang II, they were nice cars but I believe the HPOF cars should be put inthe classes they belong. I think this would widen understanding of the differences as well as keeping the Beauty of the HPOFs in perspective with the restored cars.

[Shop Rat]

I just sent an e-mail to novaman to ask for his input on the subject of placing HPOF vehicles in with their peers rather than a stand alone class.

He is a long time member of the HPOF evaluation team and would be one of the folks a change like this would impact.

[MCHinson]

I would really love to see the HPOF cars displayed with restored cars of the same class that the HPOF car would be in if they were not in HPOF. I also believe that it would make the HPOF team's evaluation work extremely difficult to complete, especially at larger meets such as Hershey.

I really wish it were possible, but I don't think it is practical.

[Bhigdog]

I would really love to see the HPOF cars displayed with restored cars of the same class that the HPOF car would be in if they were not in HPOF. I also believe that it would make the HPOF team's evaluation work extremely difficult to complete, especially at larger meets such as Hershey.

I really wish it were possible, but I don't think it is practical.

Why so? Just askin .......................Bob

[Shop Rat]

Something I think would go over well would be a special display that would include an HPOF vehicle that has already received at least one certification placed beside a 1st Junior, Senior or Preservation level vehicle of the same type. I know it would not happen often that such a display could be done, but I think it would attract a crowd.

[MCHinson]

Why so? Just askin .......................Bob

Do you mean, why would I like them together or why I don't think it is practical?

Seeing an original unrestored car next to a restored car of the same type is interesting to me. It is also educational.

Why I don't think it is practical is that the HPOF Certification Team would have to walk all over the entire showfield to evaluate all of the HPOF vehicles. I don't think it would be practical for the HPOF Team.

[Restorer32]

Why not have HPOF vehicles certified BEFORE a show, similar to race cars? Or, make it optional for an HPOF vehicle to be shown in class after it is certified in its group? If we are indeed about history it seems to me that having "before" and "after" cars in a class is the way to go.

[novaman]

Shop Rat, although I am a an AACA judge, I'm not even a short time member of the HPOF evaluation team, I am one of the folks a change like this would impact as a car owner.

Here's what I see as a HPOF car owner and an AACA judge:

Owner:

1. Yes, it would be nice to be placed with the respective class BUT,

Would you want to be the car owner with your $$,$$$.$$ - $$$,$$$.$$ restored car and have me park my $,$$$.$$ "POS" next to you?

2. I feel more at home with the unrestored, which most of those put my car to shame.

3. Certification on friday was mentioned. You'll lose my car. I get one week of vacation a year from work. That's for Herhsey. I have to do most meets by leaving late on friday and arriving on Sat morning.

Judge:

1. It is hard enough as a team captain to deal with all the cars you have to judge when you have 1 or 2 classes, between cars not parked where they should be, arriving at the last minute, and having to check the surrounding area to make sure we didn't miss someone when it looks like they are a no show.

2. Suggestion of certifcation on Friday - A lot of the members of the Ceritification committee are national directors and are in meetings on friday.

As for parking with your class after HPOF certififcation; The car gets certified at EVERY meet it attends. To have that certification then move the car to the class would be a field layout nightmare to have the room along with the liability of all those vehicles moving among the peopl at the meet.

As I see it you options are:

A. Go the HOPF or DPC certification route and perticipate in those groups.

B. Go the judging route and be with that class.

C. Go the Do Not Judge route and be with that class.

I do like the fact they moved us to the front of the field after all we are the history of the restored cars. I have let them know that larger sign by the HOPF class would be nice. I almost didn't see it at Charlotte. It was well worded, just not obvoius among all the other stakes and ailse signs.

Got to run or I'll be late for work.

Edited April 25, 2011 by novaman (see edit history)

[buick5563]

Several years ago, my 55 was placed in the Driven class rather than being judged (BCA Nationals). I had already received my Senior preservation and I wanted to participate without the judging. The problem was I was (as has been mentioned) "off in the corner".

Last year, I opted to be "not judged" so that I could be with the other 55's and hang with those owners.

Even though I haven't participated in AACA judging, I agree that the HPOF cars should be alongside their restored brethren. In BCA judging they judge returning "Senior Award" cars first, before the rest of the class. I think it would be helpful if any "Archival" (HPOF) cars were judged or at least "studied" prior to judging.

Yeah, I know it would be more walking around, but maybe you stick the younger judges in that judging team (kinda like chassis judges )

[Shop Rat]

Shop Rat, although I am a an AACA judge, I'm not even a short time member of the HPOF evaluation team, I am one of the folks a change like this would impact as a car owner. .....

I apologize novaman and others. I honestly for years thought that you/he was a part of that team. However, I think his thoughts on the subject are welcome.

[Bhigdog]

Do you mean, why would I like them together or why I don't think it is practical?

Seeing an original unrestored car next to a restored car of the same type is interesting to me. It is also educational.

Why I don't think it is practical is that the HPOF Certification Team would have to walk all over the entire showfield to evaluate all of the HPOF vehicles. I don't think it would be practical for the HPOF Team.

I agree that having them shown together would be quite desireable.

I did mean why would it not be practical. If there's a judging team dedicated to just HPOF I could see it being burdensome if they were spread among the different classes. Would it be impractical to have the class team also judge/certify the HPOF's if they were mixed in? Actually one problem I can invision with mixing them is what happens when a supposedly "original" car is parked next to a restoration and the restoration has some differences. I can see some on field debates being caused to no good end.

On second thought separating them is the most practical course.............Bob

[R W Burgess]

The statement below is not from an official opinion, just a personal opinion:

To really understand the impact of judging class vehicles scattered across a meet field, one would need to become a team captain and experience the stress of finding all of the cars on your judging list, a scary thought at a large show like Hershey with a lot of spectators and photographers around.

Again, join the AACA and advance through our judging system.

Wayne

[Restorer32]

I understand that now at some meets there are actually an excess of judges. How many HPOF cars show up at a typical meet and how many judges would it take to judge (certify)them? I think many folks take a cursory look at most of the cars at a show but generally zero in on the couple classes they are really interested in and would find it very informative to have an HPOF car readily available to compare. It might be educational for the judges as well. I would asume that once an HPOF car is certified the first time the evaluation at each subsequent meet is similar to a "Repeat Preservation"? If repeat preservations can be judged on the field I fail to see why it would be a problem doing the same with HPOF cars. Just my very inflation decimated 2 cents worth of course.

[Shop Rat]

The statement below is not from an official opinion, just a personal opinion:

To really understand the impact of judging class vehicles scattered across a meet field, one would need to become a team captain and experience the stress of finding all of the cars on your judging list, a scary thought at a large show like Hershey with a lot of spectators and photographers around.

Again, join the AACA and advance through our judging system.

Wayne

A couple of added thought from me, there could also be added crowding in classes with more than one team of Team Captains and judges in the area.

That also might be confusing to owners to see one team at one vehicle and another team at their vehicle.

[R W Burgess]

How many HPOF cars show up at a typical meet and how many judges would it take to judge (certify)them?

The Judge Newsletter just reached my mailbox today. They anticipate 60-70 HPOF entries at Bristol in August!

Wayne

[Restorer32]

But likely only one or two that would be in a particular class?

[Restorer32]

Other than possibly the walking distance I fail to see how it would be any more inconvenient to judge HPOF cars in their appropriate classes. I just think it might make the classes more interesting and fun, and now and then maybe embarrassing for the owner of an alledgedly authentically restored car.

[ted sweet]

how many of the 65-70 are repeat HPOF?

[Shop Rat]

Other than possibly the walking distance I fail to see how it would be any more inconvenient to judge HPOF cars in their appropriate classes. .....

And that could be an real issue for more and more of the folks that are judging. Several times I have been on teams where two or three of the judges have had one or two knees replaced and several that have had a hip replaced. Which certainly limits the pool of judges able to do chassis.

Judging is a volunteer job that costs the judge to be there so making the job harder for them is not that good of an idea.

And the longer it takes to do the judging the longer the Admin. folks have to be there and they are always there later than the teams.

So what might sound good to those not involved in that end of the process, might well drive some folks out of judging and we can't afford to lose even one good judge willing to do what it takes to do the job.

[R W Burgess]

So what might sound good to those not involved in that end of the process, might well drive some folks out of judging and we can't afford to lose even one good judge willing to do what it takes to do the job.

Excellent point, Susan. Might I add that a gentleman came up to me in Charlotte and said that he had a room reservation for the Stowe Meet in May. He was, and is, looking for someone to share his room with. He may have to cancel if he does not find someone, as this Meet will be expensive for AACA judges.

Contact me, if you are interested in helping this judge out.

Wayne

[Guest Siegfried]

I to would like to see HPOF and DPC in their respective classes, BUT since both HPOF and DPC are becoming more POPULAR it is NOT PRACTICAL to intermix with the judged classes.

Additionally having more then 1 judging team in a class would, in my opinion, be confusing to the teams, and the car owners. Imagine what might happen at a LARGE meet!

Here's another thought. Some of us as we get older are having to deal with breathing problems, and believe me when I state that walking a show field with a judging team takes it toll on anyone who has this problem.

[Restorer32]

I was a Team Captain last year at Hershey. Among my team there were 5 replaced knees, including my two.

[Guest Siegfried]

Restorer32. Replaced knees are an issue. My wife had both done over the past few years, and I lost a lot of mobility in one of mine thanks to a rifle bullet, but we still keep on going. Love judging, how about you?

[Restorer32]

Stowe will be my 82nd judging credit, yea, I enjoy judging very much, even more now that I can walk again. Great technology those new knees but the operation and therapy isn't a whole lot of fun as I'm sure you know.

[1936 D2]

Rent well marked and lighted golf carts for the HPOF Judging Teams so they can be very mobile, and put HPOF vehicles in with the class judging. Just my opinion I guess and open for comment.