Buick Club National Dues

[Guest pacernut]

I recently sent out an e-mail or snail mail to all officers and directors of the Buick club of America. I stated that we should offer a special $20 national dues for member at large MAL status. These members will be listed in the national directory but will NOT receive the Buick Bugle or be able to,participate in any National or Regional BCA point judged meets. They could participate in any meet that was not point judged. They could change their status to full member by paying another $40. I senyt this message to all directors and officers. So Far after 1 week I've received 4 chapters and vote totals of104 in favor and 6 opposed. I'd also like to see the BuickBugle come out 6 times a year (like the Riviera Club, and hav little or no full color which really costs! What's comments?alweatherly@comcast.net BCA#7786

[jscheib]

Rather then e-mail, I will just post here. I will respomnd to just the first comment at this time, a sthe Bugle iissue, etc. has been discussed and reviewed many times before.

Can you perhaps explain what would be the benefit of MAL status for $20. Would be the incentive to spend $20 just to be on a record in a directory published every few years? Or am I missing something? Do you mean "participate" in a meet, BUT not be pointed judged?

John

[old-tank]

I recently sent out an e-mail or snail mail to all officers and directors of the Buick club of America. I stated that we should offer a special $20 national dues for member at large MAL status. These members will be listed in the national directory but will NOT receive the Buick Bugle or be able to,participate in any National or Regional BCA point judged meets. They could participate in any meet that was not point judged. They could change their status to full member by paying another $40. I senyt this message to all directors and officers. So Far after 1 week I've received 4 chapters and vote totals of104 in favor and 6 opposed. I'd also like to see the BuickBugle come out 6 times a year (like the Riviera Club, and hav little or no full color which really costs! What's comments?alweatherly@comcast.net BCA#7786

This would result in a loss of income for the BCA national and would amount to a subsidy for those participating. If you feel so strongly about this just don't charge any dues from your local chapter. I don't want to subsidize members of your very large and wealthy chapter---they all boycotted the last national meet anyway.

Willie

[Pete Phillips]

IF you think the ads in the Bugle have a long lead time now (time between when you send it in and when it appears in print), just cut the frequency of the magazine's issues in half, and then see how stale the ads are. Right now, I'm collecting ads that will come out in the December issue, which means most people won't see them until mid-December. Make the magazine come out every other month, and the ads that come in now won't be in members' hands until mid-January--some three and a half months after the ad is written. May I send all of the complaints to you, Mr. Weatherly?

Can't believe that a lot of people want to see the magazine go back to being all black & white, which is what it was in the 1970s and early 1980s. It actually doesn't cost that much more per page for full color, given the modern printing equipment that is in use by printers these days. But go ahead and get up a petition to go back to all black & white in the magazine. I'll do whatever the Board and the majority of the members decide, but unless I'm very wrong, I think the vast majority of the members like the color pages in the magazine.

Pete Phillips, BCA #7338

Bugle Editor

Edited October 1, 2010 by Pete Phillips (see edit history)

[Guest BJM]

I think that "modern" color photos add more detail then going back to black and white. With better technology and defacto desk top publishing, we won't be going back to black and white.

So much of an auto's appeal is in the color "pop". i.e. Buick green engine paint, the two toning of the 50's and impressive backgrounds.

I recently "found" the issue featuring the original 49 Special and it had great color photos of the last National BDE tour, which wetted my appetite to join this group and get a Buck done so I can tour the Smokys or the Rockies with a group of old Buicks.

That would have been an 'eh' moment in black and white.

My only issue with the Bugle now is the small type size. I understand we want to "cram" as much content into each issue but geez, I am constantly taking off my glasses and getting up close.

[stealthbob]

Why bother having a Buick magazine at all without the beautiful imagery of what is a Buick?

Why spend $20 just to be on a list?

Why not let those who don't mind the minor fee of a membership enjoy what they pay for rather than cut it all the shreds.

Most of us value quality and are willing to pay the minor fee to get it.

[NTX5467]

It appears you have basically restated the definition of "Member At Large" EXCEPT that you desire to have it paid for collectively rather than individually. If a genuinely interested MAL happens into a chapter, they'll usually join the BCA and the chapter (remember, HAVE to do both).

There would also need to be some sort of records at the national office which chapter operatives could readily access to determine and verify the status of any MAL, under your proposal. Any fees collected for MALs are related to insurance rather than BCA profits, as I understand it currently stands. Therfore, your $20.00 proposal might be significantly understated with respect to actual costs of said insurance.

What might the mechanics of your proposal be? It appears that the new MAL would pay $20.00 for that status, THEN pay another $40.00 to join the BCA? If that might happen within the same calendar year, then that would make the dues $60.00/year, effectively, for the first year. Or . . . did I miss something?

"The Bugle" in black and white?^#$%#^ NNOOOOO--Period!

Bi-Monthly "Bugles"? &$T%#^# NNOOOOO--Period! WHY MOVE BACKWARDS? You might like your ROA magazine that way, but don't try to make the BCA follow what the ROA . . . or ANY other club does . . . different people, different desires. If the membership wanted bi-monthly club magazines, we'd probably have already been there, I suspect. Bi-monthly club magazines, just like bi-monthly chapter meetings, has been observed to decrease the number of active people in the group, which makes the bi-monthly publication idea a poor way to cut costs, in the long run, with all due respect. Typically, "Out of sight, out of mind" . . . if the member doesn't get something pretty often (as in monthly), they tend to forget about the club (even they have paid money to belong that year) and its priority in their lives significantly decreases such that they come to visit sporadically rather than maintain a continuous membership.

I believe the tribe has already spoken, regarding changes to "The Bugle", at the Colorado National Meet's General Membership Meeting . . . . "DON'T MESS WITH 'THE BUGLE'!" Why is it necessary to revisit this?

Professionally, I'd like to see a detailed list of your current vote totals posted here.

Regards,

Willis Bell 20811

Director, N TX Chapter

Buick Club of America

[Reatta Man]

Before anyone seriously suggests publishing the Bugle in black and white, please try the following:

1. Turn off the color on all of your TVs, including your high-def 1020 resolution screen, and watch EVERYTHING that way for a week.

2. Take every print product you currently receive, and make a black-and-white copy. Throw the color copy away; review your newspaper, magazines, club bulletins, church bulletins, sale ad mailers for your favorite stores and everything else in black-and-white. Do that for a week.

3. If you see a billboard, poster, funny cartoon on someone's wall or office cubicle, menu in your favorite restaurant or other full color item that catches your attention, ignore it, or ask someone to show you a black-and-white copy of that item. Watch them stare at you as if you suddenly started speaking Mandarin Chinese, but stick to your guns. BLACK AND WHITE ONLY, PLEASE!!!

After you do all of that, and suddenly start to realize how much we all take color for granted, or start to realize how much more information and enjoyment we get from full-color products in our lives AND realize how color is now everywhere, rethink the idea of a black and white Bugle.

One more thing; with modern printing, grayscale (black and white to non-printers) is now almost identical to the cost of color. So, stop assuming a non-color Bugle will save money; you don't know what you are talking about.

As for a $20 membership being viable, to what end? Are the $50 members supposed to carry the club while the $20 members show up at the meetings, shows and other events and expect everything to work perfectly? We all need to step up and support the club. We are becoming a nation of skaters and coasters. Everyone wants things to work on time, as expected, but no one wants to volunteer, pay for it or provide any support to make sure things work. "Let someone else do it" seems to becoming the national motto.

And, as for $50 being too expensive, don't worry. The board will probably be lucky to keep it at ONLY $50 for much longer. There are big changes coming in our society that will make that $50 membership seem like a gift.

But, of course, we are not allowed to talk about anything going on in our government or society in this forum, so I will stop there.

Edited October 2, 2010 by Reatta Man (see edit history)

[Guest Fred_S]

DON'T MESS WITH THE BUGLE! We get 12 top quality award winning magazines, can place ads in it for free, have a great national organization, pay insurance as we need to do, maintain the web site, this forum, with a number of other services and still get by at $4.17 per month. Is this great or what! You want a cheaper club? Just find one that has only 4 magazines with minimal color and a lot less services. I'll stay here and enjoy this great club thank you.

[stealthbob]

How many times will the majority have to defend this?

These threads start with a complaint then get 1 maybe 2 supporters all the while post after post says leave it alone.

Same for the dues threads.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

I VOTE: DON'T CHANGE A THING. The club and Bugle are great the way they are!

Ben

[Guest pacernut]

I recently sent out an e-mail or snail mail to all officers and directors of the Buick club of America. I stated that we should offer a special $20 national dues for member at large MAL status. These members will be listed in the national directory but will NOT receive the Buick Bugle or be able to,participate in any National or Regional BCA point judged meets. They could participate in any meet that was not point judged. They could change their status to full member by paying another $40. I senyt this message to all directors and officers. So Far after 1 week I've received 4 chapters and vote totals of104 in favor and 6 opposed. I'd also like to see the BuickBugle come out 6 times a year (like the Riviera Club, and hav little or no full color which really costs! What's comments?alweatherly@comcast.net BCA#7786

Idea of $20 dues is so that the club can attract new members. We try at local car shows to tell possible new members that our local dues are only $15 but then when we tell them they must also pay th naational dues of $50 they wave goodbye! Also older members like me aren't interested in National or Regional; meets which are 400 or 100 point judged any more. We just love to drive our Buicks. If a MAL member wants to have his car point judged he would haave to pay the additional $40. If a regional meet is peer judged the MAL would be welcomed to participate. As to the Bugle I live very well with the every 2 month Riview magazine of the Riviera Club. Their dues are only $30 a year. Comments/ alweatherly@comcast.net

[buick5563]

I like pie.

[Guest sintid58]

I know a lot of people that spend $50 a week on cigarettes and beer. To me the BCA and the Bugle are a much better deal and healthier too.

[stealthbob]

[progoofoff]

Bob,

Best post on the subect, yet.

Bob

[Guest quadfins]

I concur.

Thanks for the laugh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

jim

[JohnD1956]

LOL!!!

[MrEarl]

There are those that argue this horse is not dead, siting:

Where are the flies?

Why has rigamortis and swelling of the belly not occurred.

So until this is answered I will use this thread to axe what I think is the most important and critical concern and issue of the whole matter? If it is not handled soon I will likely not renew my membership and will have to resort to rummaging through trash cans to find discarded copies of the Bugle.

1. For $50, couldn't we at least be given another decal.:eek:

Other than that area of grave concern, I agree with Ben

I VOTE: DON'T CHANGE A THING. The club and Bugle are great the way they are!

Ben

Edited October 3, 2010 by MrEarl (see edit history)

[Thriller]

Idea of $20 dues is so that the club can attract new members. We try at local car shows to tell possible new members that our local dues are only $15 but then when we tell them they must also pay th naational dues of $50 they wave goodbye! Also older members like me aren't interested in National or Regional; meets which are 400 or 100 point judged any more. We just love to drive our Buicks. If a MAL member wants to have his car point judged he would haave to pay the additional $40. If a regional meet is peer judged the MAL would be welcomed to participate. As to the Bugle I live very well with the every 2 month Riview magazine of the Riviera Club. Their dues are only $30 a year. Comments/ alweatherly@comcast.net

I'm sorry, I must be thick or something. Are you proposing National MAL dues of $20 with no Bugle and no BCA judging so that you can get a chapter member for an additional $15 for a total of $35? My thinking is that you are trying to grow your local chapter at the expense of the BCA. If I get it right, you are suggesting creation of a MAL just so they can "belong" to the BCA which enables them to join the chapter. Am I understanding that right, or completely misreading this?

As I've never been behind the scenes of a National, I may be wrong, but isn't the fee charged to have a car judged intended to cover the costs associated with the judged portion of the meet? In other words, the judges breakfast and awards? If the judging is more or less self-sufficient, why would this matter at all toward a reduced MAL membership. National and Regional meets include judging, but judging does not define these meets. Whichever side of the fence you sit on, the National meets in Flint have shown that judging does not define the meet, but at other meets, it is a component thereof. The tours, cars, people, swap meet, and such are all a part of the meets. Everyone has a right to be heard, but if you are a voice in the wilderness, please understand that you may not get your way. I would expect that the popularity of the tour to Jewell this year will have organizers of future National meets thinking about coordinating inexpensive driven tours.

Everyone gets different things out of this club. For some the Bugle is a lifeline, for others, it is lining for the outhouse, and for others something in between. There are probably just as many for whom the Bugle is the primary association with the BCA (i.e. located too far from chapter events to be able to attend very many) as there are those who want to take advantage of a reduced rate without the Bugle. Without a reasonable magazine, the club would stand to lose many international members as well as those who are located some distance from a chapter.

That begs a question that I am hopeful the National office may be able to answer, but may not...how many, or what proportion, of BCA members claim a chapter affiliation? I don't recall if we offer that information at renewal time, but comparing chapter membership numbers and BCA membership would give an idea (not entirely accurate since numerous members are members of more than one chapter). We put chapter affiliation as part of the National meet registration - perhaps Rick / Bill / Roy would be able to provide that as a sample.

Digging deeper, perhaps this comes to a question of what truly defines the BCA. Is it the chapters? Is it the Bugle? Is it the meets, National or Regional? Is it something completely different? One thing to keep in mind is that the club, as well as society, has evolved since 1966. What was true over 40 years ago may no longer be true today. With the advent of the Internet, eBay, and Craigslist, things like the classified ads in the Bugle probably don't have the same value that they did 20+ years ago.

Personally I am located roughly 450 miles from the nearest chapter. There are no less than 5 BCA members paying the Canadian rates in our area. I try to attend a chapter event in MN every year or two, but the distance, and associated expense make it somewhat difficult. If you think recruiting is tough, try doing it in a location where you pay higher dues to account for higher mailing costs and the Bugle is the primary benefit of membership provided directly by the club. The friendships develop, but are a result of club membership rather than a direct benefit.

As usual, I could go on, but I think I've punished y'all enough....

[Guest BJM]

I'm sorry, I must be thick or something. Are you proposing National MAL dues of $20 with no Bugle and no BCA judging so that you can get a chapter member for an additional $15 for a total of $35? My thinking is that you are trying to grow your local chapter at the expense of the BCA. If I get it right, you are suggesting creation of a MAL just so they can "belong" to the BCA which enables them to join the chapter. Am I understanding that right, or completely misreading this?

Ding, ding, ding, you are correct.

As Old-Tank mentioned, most believe the Flint Chapter boycotted the National this year and that there are covert members in that group that pay dues to the Chapter and not the National. Their website is compliant though, it says National membership is a requirement.

Chapters need strengthened in my opinion. The Buicktown chapter has probably talked about how to have a strong, fun chapter and still belong to the National with a diminished national profile. Hence the $20 + $15 fees coming to what most agree they would pay for a National membership.

Chapters are the core of the club. Some are small, I have heard of some disbanding. Several (but not all) BoD have specifically mentioned that chapter work was high on their priority list when you read their candidate profiles in the Bugle.

I am chomping at the bit to take on the National Chapter/Regional Coordinator job but don't have the clout to pull it off and don't want to put down for asking, so I did not bother bringing it up at the Ames National.

But - there is no National Chapters/Regions coordinator - it went to the Books as I remember.

I am not in the Hawkeye Chapter. I would like to join. But overall, I think the trend is going towards weakening chapters connection to the national club.

Edited October 3, 2010 by BJM (see edit history)

[stealthbob]

Like Derek I am remote and have no access to a chapter...also not only do I pay more for the Bugle I get the added advantage of hearing about the articles for about a month before mine arrives.

I consider my online home 1954Buick.com my chapter.

Boycott a National???

Edited October 3, 2010 by stealthbob (see edit history)

[Guest sintid58]

[i like pie QUOTE]

I do to but cant eat it anymore.

[MrEarl]

I like dis kinda pie

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hold da custard

[Bill Stoneberg]

BJM,

You are "Chomping at the bit to be Chapter Coordinator" ?

Have you spoken to anyone about it ? I dont know what type of clout you think you need to do this job.

It takes someone who knows the chapters,wants to grow the chapters and wants to work with the chapters.

The only way we will grow the club is to grow the chapters.

You say you want to join the Hawkeye chapter.. Why haven't you ? It only takes time and money.

I can tell you my opinion, I would not approve anyone who has not been active in a chapter for a Chapter coordinator as they will not a good idea of what goes on a Chapter level.

[Reatta Man]

So, let's just say there is a $20 Membership At Large rate, combined with a $15-20 chapter fee.

You pick up a few members (virtually all of them at the reduced rate) and pretty soon, at a chapter meeting or a chapter function, some members bring their back copies of the Bugle. Mr. $20 member says "what is that?" Mr. $50 members says "that is the Buick Bugle, the monthy magazine of the BCA." 20 says "where's mine" and 50 says "it is only mailed to the members who pay the FULL rate." You now have an instant class structure on your hands.

Anyone want to take a wild guess about what that will do to the morale of a club, made up of a mix of upper-class $50 people and the "lower, common" class of the $20 people?

One more thing to keep in mind; what do you do when national raises the $50 rate to $55? Do you raise the $20 rate to $25? Probably. And then you start loosing $20 members because "$25 is too #$%^ expensive." They are already a little resentful because they don't get the Bugle (which is passed around under their nose at the meetings) and then you raise their rates the same amount as the upper class?? HOW DARE YOU! Then you hear "those rich people need to pay their fair share, not pass it along to the little guys." And now you have another problem on your hands.

Please think this through; I'm all for building up and helping the chapters, but does a two-class rate structure REALLY do that?

Personally, I don't think so. You already have enough people trying to foster a two or three-class society in this country, and using class envy to get their political goals accomplished.

I don't doing anything that builds a class structure in the BCA ultimately helps the club in the long run.

Here is another thought to consider. Many of the past and current board members have posted messages in here about how most of the $50 cost covers the magazine. If you have a significant number of the current membership jump over to the $20 membership at their next renewal, what does that do to the Bugle?

There has to be a minimum number of copies necessary to keep the cost-per-copy at its current level. If 1,000 members dropped their rate over the next year, is that enough $50 members left to keep the Bugle alive? I don't know, but if there is a guaranteed minimum in the contract with the current printer, and we go below it, I KNOW the cost-per-issue WILL go up.

So, if you mess with the status quo too much, you may loose $20 AND $50 members in the end. It is a tough call, but that is why being a manager, director or any other kind of 'boss' is often much harder than it looks to most people.

Joe

Edited October 3, 2010 by Reatta Man (see edit history)

[BUICK RACER]

As Old-Tank mentioned, most believe the Flint Chapter boycotted the National this year and that there are covert members in that group that pay dues to the Chapter and not the National. Their website is compliant though, it says National membership is a requirement.

Ok, now you done it, Mr Weatherly does not belong the Buicktown Chapter(Flint), he is from the South East Michigan Chapter. WE(FLINT) did not boycott the National, some of us had other things they would rather do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Or had already traveled for a BDE National or other such BUICK Related event doesn't matter what!

But on the other hand, Buicktown members have had the same discussion amongst ourselves and with the other Michigan Chapters-BCA it's not a secret!

There are issues, is the South East Michigan proposal the answer, yes and no, do you'all really understand the real issue????????

Go back to "you can't make everyone happy!" Derek hits on some of it, but there is a minority of folks that will comment here, but a whole bunch that lurk, the lurkers are the ones that scare me, that we are scaring them away.

I don't have the answer, I understand the issues, THE BIGGEST ONE! Everybody wants a bang for their buck, and each one of us has a very different view of what that bang is, so you either take it or leave it and quit beating that dead horse, unless you managed a project, hosted an event, or have done any leadership in your organization, you won't understand.

"WHAT DID YOU DO FOR YOUR CLUB, TODAY?"

If you can't say been there done that, you are just paying for what you get, cause you didn't make a difference by running your **S off, making it happen, with enthusiam, committment, and passion for BUICKS!!!!

Enough said!!!

[Guest BJM]

BJM,

You are "Chomping at the bit to be Chapter Coordinator" ?

Have you spoken to anyone about it ? I dont know what type of clout you think you need to do this job.

It takes someone who knows the chapters,wants to grow the chapters and wants to work with the chapters.

The only way we will grow the club is to grow the chapters.

You say you want to join the Hawkeye chapter.. Why haven't you ? It only takes time and money.

I can tell you my opinion, I would not approve anyone who has not been active in a chapter for a Chapter coordinator as they will not a good idea of what goes on a Chapter level.

Have not joined because of time. (Hawkeye Chapter)

I created a chapter from nothing for the Cadillac LaSalle Club and worked with the regional director at the time to grow that region. I have strong business knowledge of growing markets and just accepted a new career/job where I will be tasked to grow a 4 state region - this was based on past success. It doesn't all have to be in the BCA. In fact, most BoD members bring outside talent to their BoD capacities.

I was the membership director for the WP Chrysler Club's Hawkeye Chapter for Iowa and grew that chapter 255% in 8 months.

Knowing how to grow something does not mean you need to be in a chapter now.

Your opinion is the same as an opinion I got from a BoD member when I expressed interest in developing a couple of locations for a 2013 National. Basically, it was - you need the support of the local chapter/region before the BoD will even listen to a proposal (or help).

In those communities I had anticipated would be good Nationals, I contacted the local authorities and received affirmatives and got the ball rolling, but feel I would run into too much negativity when I approached the BoD, so I bought some cars to restore instead.

I don't have the time to devote to something that would not end in a positive result.

I have not spoken to anyone about it because I was at the National BoD meeting and there was a consensus that the Books were doing a good job, and they are.

The comment about clout is not meant in a negative way. If - for instance - a BCA member we had never heard of suddenly stepped forward and wanted to be a non elected coordinator - people would question it simply because he came out of nowhere.

If a long time well known name in the Buick circles said they wanted to be in an important position - they would come with "street cred" and get a closer look. Clout was the only word I thought of when I created that comment.

Edited October 3, 2010 by BJM (see edit history)

[Guest pacernut]

I feel that it's a good idea not only to get BCA members from y6ounger people but also KEEP the older members like me who no longer want to participate in the national meets or regional meets when they are point judged. We OLD FARTS want to simply enjoy driving our Buicks and save $30 bucks and be a part of our local Buick Club chapter buddies. al weatherly at alweatherly@comcast.net

[NTX5467]

By observation, the position of Chapter Coordinator has been problematic . . . at least for the last 14 years or so. I know of one chapter coordinator that did seem to care, at least from what I could see, but that person (who took over the job from a prior person who allegedly didn't do anything of significance--so they claim) didn't seem to geehaw too well with some in the organization, so that person was replaced a few years later--but at least that particular person did care and held Chapter Director Meetings at the BCA National Meets. From what I could see, this person was on the "right track" to getting somewhere in helping build chapters and back new ones. Still, some had an "attitude" against this person, by observation, and a replacement was at hand. Of course, after "the word" came down that BCA operatives were looking for a new person, this particular person did what any other normal person might do . . . stopped doing anything as what was apparently being done was "not good enough".

Each time a new Chapter Coordinator has come online, they try to get up to speed by contacting the chapters for information and ideas--same song, next verse--as the prior coordinator did. Each prior Chapter Coordinator was usually portrayed as not doing anything of significance, so the new one was going to "make it happen" this time. Some actually did travel to troubled chapters to view things "on the ground", which is good, even with coverage in THE BUGLE, but things usually fizzled after a while, for one reason or another.

In order to inject some stability into the mix, I suspect, the Books ended up with that function as a function of the BCA National Office. This make a good deal of sense, in many respects, but it just adds another "something" for them to keep up with, with all due respect. I do see some synergies in the integration of the Chapter Coordinator into the BCA National Office, though. On the other hand, it seems to have deleted the prior Regional Coordinator positions which gave each region a more local person to seek help/mentoring from. A chapter might be a "universal entity" of sorts, but those in the chapter are certainly not a universal member of sorts--EACH chapter being a different group that similar chapter groups, with geographic location being just ONE of the influences.

Having put in some time in the chapter level of things is good, even at the "chapter member" level than as a chapter officer, so that "street cred" can help . . . OR at least the recommendation of a trusted BCA operative in this respect. By observation, virtually NONE of the prior Chapter Directors have had NO experience at that level of things, but some did better than others in this position--and some seemed to be "run off" for one reason or another. SO, in any event, a Regional Coordinator or Chapter Coordinator will be "newbies" and have to rely upon their individual experiences and gut instincts to do the best job they can do.

Other than management and chapter involvements, Human Relations skills are also important. Problem solving capabilities and successes are important and necessary, too. Not to forget the capabilities to see "the big picture" and "hidden agendas" when helping chapters with various issues.

BUT the other side of the situation is that a Chapter Coordinator would need to be "listened to" by the BOD, with respect to helping fix current and future problems which the chapter might be or will be encountering. Plus, the Chapter Coordinator would need to have empowerments and approvals to make decisions that would stick with respect to chapter issues . . . rather than be a "Chapter Coordinator" in name only. Think "troubleshooter" rather than "gladhander".

All of the chapter information is already consolidated with the National Office, so it makes sense for the Books to be deeper into the Chapter Coordinator's functions. Still, though, with all due respect, I would suspect that some sort of Regional Coordinator structure would be beneficial and GET EVERYBODY WORKING TOGETHER TO BUILD THE ORGANIZATION IN A SUBSTANTIVE MANNER.

. . . Now back to your regularly-scheduled horse activities . . .

Regards,

NTX5467

[Thriller]

I feel that it's a good idea not only to get BCA members from y6ounger people but also KEEP the older members like me who no longer want to participate in the national meets or regional meets when they are point judged.

I have yet to attend a regional meet that wasn't rolled into a national meet, so take my thoughts for what they are.

I just don't understand the above statement. Why does it matter whether or not there is 400 point judging at a meet to decide whether or not to attend? You can attend the meet and participate without participating in judging.

I understand that some folks don't like judging, or don't want to participate in judging, or feel they have enough trophies, so have been there, done that. I have no trouble with that...I regularly struggle with participating in judging. I just don't understand why that would be a determining factor for participating in a National meet. There are 3 or 4 or more days of swap, tours, and Buick friends...judging is half a day, and most of the awards banquet is taken up with judging awards. Skip the judging, skip the banquet (or attend and skip out on the awards after), and do what you want.

Again, I'm thinking I'm thick and just not getting something....

[1957buickjim]

As a relatively new member to BCA and this forum, I would like to add my two cents worth as well. I live in SE MI, haven't had the time to join the chapter yet, but plan on it. I have run a number of volunteer organizations at the board level. What it looks like here is that Mr. Weatherly would like to have and enjoy his Buick with his friends, and belong to a local organization. He also stated that he is a senior member of society, I think.

Why not look into a senior membership that may be applied for when you reach a certain age, 60 or 65 or some other acceptable age? That could be determined by the BoD possibly. At that point, when the application is approved by Nationals, the person could recieve the reduced rate, not need to get the Bugle by choice and the problem could be reduced to one of actively requesting the senior membership level. Hopefully National would be able to approve the senior memberships and it would not allow the general membership (those not at the request age) to join for a lower fee and cause a class issue. It also would allow those members who are of the senior age to make a decision to either be a full member ($50 / yr. with full rights, etc.) or senior member (directory only - non voting, etc). This might be a way to have both situations resolved, keep up the full membership option and dues to support the Bugle, and allow those, like Mr. Weatherly to enjoy a reduced membership option. Just my thoughts on it.

[The Old Guy]

It is interesting to see how different members see the BCA . I have enjoyed all the national meets that I have been to, ( I have been to 38, as there wasn't any national meet in 1974 ) and I think the main reason this "money thing"' comes up is that the 400 point system is responsible for much of it.

The awards ,judges breakfast, judging manuals, and seminars must put a real strain on the finances of the meet.

That coupled with the fact that it is becoming more and more difficult to get "COMPETENT" Judges, and it just gets to the point where it is not worth the trouble.

I have been quite vocal about this for some time, and I am sure that I have ruffled a few feathers, and for that I am sorry !!!

This will be the last I will comment on the issue. and hope that everything works out for the BCA. This is still the best car club in the country, and I wish the BOD, which I am very impressed with , the best of luck in the future !!!!!

Edited October 4, 2010 by The Old Guy (see edit history)

[Guest wildcat62]

Your opinion is the same as an opinion I got from a BoD member when I expressed interest in developing a couple of locations for a 2013 National. Basically, it was - you need the support of the local chapter/region before the BoD will even listen to a proposal (or help).

In those communities I had anticipated would be good Nationals, I contacted the local authorities and received affirmatives and got the ball rolling, but feel I would run into too much negativity when I approached the BoD, so I bought some cars to restore instead.

Hi BJM, since I have a terrible memory this concerned me, because I would never presume to speak for the entire BOD, only myself. Thankfully, and probably why those fellas keep having me be secretary, I kept the PM I sent back and can resend if you need me to. I spoke only for myself in that I would, as a BOD of the BCA, not vote for a National Meet bid that was not supported by a chapter or region. I still believe in that since I've seen what can go very wrong.

I don't have the time to devote to something that would not end in a positive result.

Sometimes that just happens... happens with cars...clubs...and definately life. Experiences, even when they do not work out, can sometimes really lead to a great learning opportunity. Never let the fear of failure keep you from trying.

[Guest wildcat62]

I recently sent out an e-mail or snail mail to all officers and directors of the Buick club of America.

Actually Al, you did forget one officer of the BCA on the list, lucky that nice racing lady in Michigan forwarded it on to me. I'm not going to comment more than this, because I understand your position and why you feel that way, and I appreciate the time and effort you've put into it, but I respectfully disagree. Many of the reasons have been given before, it boils down to being financially unsound in the long run.

For everyone, please be respectful to each other. I may not agree with the argument, and I understand the frustration of BOTH sides...what people do when they disagree with something is organize a thoughtful argument to present. Argument does not have to mean a fight, it can provoke a constructive discussion between the parties, who even if they may never agree, may understand better where someone is coming from.

Now...where is this pie? Mike???

[Pete Phillips]

Someone needs to update Mr. Weatherly on the existence of the Driven Class, which has been a part of the national meets for the last 6-7 years. It's for members who are not interested in the 400-point judging, and who drive their Buicks to the meet.

Pete Phillips, BCA #7338

Sherman, TX

[Bill Stoneberg]

I created a chapter from nothing for the Cadillac LaSalle Club and worked with the regional director at the time to grow that region. I have strong business knowledge of growing markets and just accepted a new career/job where I will be tasked to grow a 4 state region - this was based on past success. It doesn't all have to be in the BCA. In fact, most BoD members bring outside talent to their BoD capacities.

Agreed, we all bring different strengths to the club.

Tell us more about the chapter/ region you helped with the Cadillac Lasalle club, were you an officer in the chapter? How did you do it ? Tell us about your business experiences and how you grew you territory and how you can use that to help us.

This information are the types of Q & A you would get as part of the vetting process for a chapter coordinator. We have had issues in the past so we are careful.

Submit your name, tell us what you bring to the table, whats the worst that can happen, we say no ?

[Jim65Riv]

There is also the "Display" class - no judging - which at Ames was free.

[buick5563]

There is also the "Display" class - no judging - which at Ames was free.

I just looked at my checkbook register and found a check for $60 made out to the BCA for my Ames registration. SIXTY DOLLARS!!!

I spent around $350 on Hotels, $800 at the swap meet, $400 on gas, and let's say around $300 on food, beverages...

How is it that the BCA gets blamed for how expensive it was?

[buick5563]

Now...where is this pie? Mike???

This one is for The Lurkers. We want you here. We really do!