$100/barrel. What will it do?

[Bhigdog]

Fantastic Leif. I knew there were some American cars in Europe but I had no idea. I'm really glad you folks are enjoying "our" cars. Now if I can just figure a way to get a Euro. car, say a Ferrari...........Bob

[ex98thdrill]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As Wayne stated those who use a trailer for the Concours to bring out their high dollar vehicles I thank. I like many enjoy seeing these beautiful machines that their owners spent big dollars restoring</div></div>As much as I hate to say this Ron, I have a feeling that most of the people that own these types of cars aren't impacted by higher fuel prices anyways.

[Bhigdog]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> People can call my antique vehicles "trailer queens", I take no offense.

For me, using the trailer is all about trying to protect and preserve a piece of automotive history so that others can see and enjoy it. </div></div>

Well put Ron and Charlier. Two of my cars are drivers to the extent that my insurance allows and three are "Trailer Queens". I'm actually proud of the term and use it myself.

I've spent many many thousands of hours and many more thousands of dollars bringing them back from near death to the point that they are pure works of art. And like any piece of art they are meant to be admired, not exposed to the dangers of the every day world. If I could I'd put them in my living room. Does the fact that they are trailered to a show diminish their beauty or my enjoyment of them? Not in the least. Before I started trailering I've been behind sand trucks, caught in storms, been tail gated by 18 wheelers, spent hours fixing stone chips, stayed in motels that were crack houses, etc. etc. Now when I close up the trailer on one of my "Queens" I get a nice warm feeling of both security and responsibility.

Like you say ,Ron. There is plenty of room in the hobby for those who value driving, those who value preservation, and everything in between. ..........Bob

[Matt Harwood]

When my '41 is finished, it'll be a trailer queen for the first year while I'm trying to win some awards with it. After that, I'll drive it locally, maybe as far as Flint, but for longer distances, it'll go back on the trailer for the same reasons as above. There's just too much that can go wrong, both on and off the highway.

Also, the Dodge has A/C & music. The Buick does not. That matters when you're sitting in an un-airconditioned car with leather seats for hours and hours in the summer heat, especially with your wife.

I don't imagine that the Dodge gets much worse mileage than the dual-carb'd Century will. Empty or full, the Dodge gets 10 MPG. Anyone know how much the Buick will get at 70 MPH? 15? 17?

[MarkV]

'Wes, if the trailer queens disappear, cars like this one below would rapidly deteriorate. I realize everything can be driven, but cars like this need to be preserved at all costs, in my opinion. '

Here is the thing about that, cars are meant to be driven not trailered, unless they are unsafe, or unable to take the hills. A car like the one pictured, has obviously been restored and it can be restored again and again and again. And there is a place for trailering, if a car is rare or completly original, but, I have been to shows where people trailer the common models like a '57 chevy,etc. As for Charlier's list of reasons, that is why you have good insurance on the car, in case any of those happen. (If you are at a hotel at a show, get a room with the window facing the parking lot, drive something with door locks, use a CLUB, put in a kill switch (hidden so, judges don't see it) put on a gas shutoff, unplug the battery (most people don't know how to start the old 20's and 30's cars anyway) and park it next to other cars, where it is not as noticeable not at the very end of the parking lot.

[charlier]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1948Lincoln</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As for Charlier's list of reasons, that is why you have good insurance on the car, in case any of those happen. (If you are at a hotel at a show, get a room with the window facing the parking lot, drive something with door locks, use a CLUB, put in a kill switch (hidden so, judges don't see it) put on a gas shutoff, unplug the battery (most people don't know how to start the old 20's and 30's cars anyway) and park it next to other cars, where it is not as noticeable not at the very end of the parking lot. </div></div>

Good insurance is a MUST however insurance will not help an owner track down a part that took them 10-12 YEARS to find that has now been damaged beyond repair.

Personally, I have used some of the suggestions you list above. Unfortunately, in some cases they simply were not enough to prevent or minimize damage/loss.

Wes, I do agree cars should be driven. I think we differ on this subject when it comes to the where, when and how far.

In recent years I have started to drive my older vehicles early on Sunday mornings over a 30+ mile circuit that covers a variety of roads.

I have seen a noticeable increase in the number of Antique, Classic and Custom Rods being driven on my Sunday morning trips.

It would appear I am not the only person who likes to exercise their vehicle on less crowded roads.

[Twitch]

I can agree with Wayne and Ron insofar as the truly rare, high dollar vehicles must be trailered to be seen safely. There is a point where investment outweighs the NEED for Joe Doaks or the Gomer brothers to get a view of a $600,000 car driving on a freeway.

As for making fun of Pebble Beachers' cars and attitudes I'd be pretty damned paranoid if I'd just finished a 500K restoration of a 1938 Delage, Delahaye, Rolls, Talbot or Maserati with the usual fair of stumble-by hicks with their brood of sticky, drooling clones trailing behind at an auto event.

Guys with "regular" vintage vehicles are wary enough of viewers I've noticed with signs on all corners as they sit for hours, eyes on their cars.

As for upscale exotica, frankly I'd appreciate going to a venue where the best of show is a 1947 Cisitalia 202 or a 1939 Bughatti 57 instead of a 1957 Chevy or 1956 Ford.

The Concours people and the folks who actually run vintage race cars at real races have my vote for having all the trailered cars they can afford. Can you imagine destroying a Pegaso or Scarab even though you have the funds to rebuild it and race it again?

Thankfully the Concours people will continue to show their cars at safe venues whatever fuel costs. When spending $2 million to rebuild a race wrecked Maserati gasoline just becomes something to wash parts in.

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't imagine that the Dodge gets much worse mileage than the dual-carb'd Century will. Empty or full, the Dodge gets 10 MPG. Anyone know how much the Buick will get at 70 MPH? 15? 17? </div></div>

Matt, there is a huge difference between 10 and 15 mpg (which I think is a fairly accurate highway estimate for your car). That's a 50% increase over the Dodge. On a 2000 mile trip at $4/gal. that represents a $266.66 savings (<span style="font-style: italic">and a savings of 1293 lbs. [159 cubic ft.] of CO2 contribution to the atmosphere as well!</span>).

Also a very common trick during WWII with dual-carb Buicks was to block off the second carb. I know it was effective, but I don't have any hard numbers on how much of a savings it was <span style="text-decoration: underline">and</span> any numbers you might get wouldn't correlate to interstate travel anyway.

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> This is the other thing I was anticpating, the eventual slow death of the trailer queen. It definitely could make for a superficially less impressive field at national shows, at least among those cars that are still viable (however marginally) for interstate travel. That's not all bad however....</div></div>

This is what I said. Saying something isn't "all bad" implies some of it <span style="text-decoration: underline">is</span> bad, of course. Anyone interpreting my post to be an anti-trailer queen rant is nuts!

Nobody ever will or should drive high-six and seven figure cars to shows, especially given the unlikelyhood of any fuel savings in the first place. In that rarified crowd the cost of preservation includes the trailer. I'm a major advocate of driving our cars as much as possible, and the erosion of the cult of perfection that's been built up over the years. However even I would look askance at anyone driving I-70 accross the state in a Duesenberg, Winton or Stanley!

There are people, though, who trailer Mustangs to keep the tire treads clean for show. This is what I think will end soon.

[Matt Harwood]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave@Moon</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> However even I would look askance at anyone driving I-70 accross the state in a Duesenberg, Winton or Stanley!</div></div>

Don't look askance at me, Dave. If I had a Duesenberg, I'd drive it until the wheels fell off. With the exhaust cut-out WIDE OPEN and my foot on the floor.

If you can afford "the world's fastest truck," you can probably afford to feed and clothe it.

[Ron Green]

As much as I hate to say this Ron, I have a feeling that most of the people that own these types of cars aren't impacted by higher fuel prices anyways.

These are the same people that many of their cars run out of gas going up the ramp of the auction block. I remember last year the one TV announcer said a lot of cars ran out of gas while waiting line. A half million dollar car and the owner didn't want to get stuck paying an extra $3 for gas.

[Ron Green]

Add to your list:

-- bring your car home that has had major breakage or failure.

I brought one home on 3 wheels inside the trailer a few years back.

[Guest Skyking]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave@Moon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

...I think most people, when looking at 2 identical cars--one that's perfect and been trailered 1000 miles and another that started out that way when it left home on its own 1000 miles ago, are more impressed by the driven one. At least I feel happier standing next to an old flathead 6 that's just been through a rite of passage getting there that no trailered car knows, and I don't think I'm alone. Also a 20 mpg ride in a DeSoto sounds more interesting to me, <span style="text-decoration: underline">and</span> more financially viable, than a 12 mpg tow rig ride.

</div></div>

There's nothing I would like best than to drive one of my Metropolitans to Macungie like I did in 1983. But with the speeds on the freeways averaging 80 I don't think this is going to happen anytime soon. Although the Met will do 65, it's still not fast enough for most people. Maybe in the future the government will reduce the speed limit to 55 to conserve energy (like that's really going to happen) then it would be a pleasure to drive the cars there. So for now we park 2 inside my son's 28 footer and tow with his Silverado duel wheelie with diesel. Last year he averaged better than 20, pulling all that weight.

[ted sweet]

Its not just gas costs but the inflation it will cause.

[Steve Moskowitz]

Nice rig!! We are just too busy here lately for me to spend much time on the forum. Our staff has been working very late and we are in the process of looking at hiring another person to take the load off. As such, I do not want to add to any controversy. Trailered or driven makes no matter to me as it is a personal decision. In many cases the car itself determines the use. Not sure I would want to drive my 1903 Olds to all meets!

I do, however, want to dispel the doom and gloom that the high fuel prices are going to drastically effect our shows. Sure some have to make a tough decision and save on expenses for all sorts of good reasons. The interest in our meets this year is huge. We are expecting more cars than last year. Cumberland has forcasted 1,000 cars and Charlotte is expecting around 700! Based upon the requests coming in I think they are going to be realistic goals.

Maybe some won't eat for a week, give up the evening cocktail or avoid the movies for awhile but if this is your hobby you will find ways to participate. The cost of going to shows, food, tickets etc. has never been minimal but somehow most of us find a way to deal with it. In some cases we may cut back but that usually means we go to more local shows than before.

In any case. I sure I hope that at the end of the year the figures will back this up but right now the interest is still high! We have some terrific venues this year so I hope to see all of you at least at one event!

[Guest ZondaC12]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Matt Harwood</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave@Moon</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> However even I would look askance at anyone driving I-70 accross the state in a Duesenberg, Winton or Stanley!</div></div>

Don't look askance at me, Dave. If I had a Duesenberg, I'd drive it until the wheels fell off. With the exhaust cut-out WIDE OPEN and my foot on the floor.

</div></div>

HAHAHAHAHAHA YESSSSSSSSSSSSS YESSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I knew I couldn't be the only one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One of the reasons (though relatively very insignificant compared to the big one) why I'll never own one of those. I probably SHOULDNT. Wow I would put so many miles on it that it would seem evil. And I'd probably want to take it a step further. Pipes from each exhaust port right out the side!!!! OHHH yes (only because that could be easily returned to original ) and yeah same here I would wind 'er right up through the gears. Jeez it would be hard to resist layin' down rubber! And I DONT mean to have the attitude that I would abuse the vehicle, that's terrible...but sheesh it was the Ferrari of its day, how do you think it was intended to be driven!!!!!?

[Guest GRANNYS 70 SKYLARK]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Leif Holmberg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As a reminder I can tell you that we pay US $6.35 for a 1 gallon here in Sweden.And you can take a look at the site what happend in Sweden in the summer.All of my cars need about 1 gallon every 10-15 miles. http://www.bigmeet.com/

Buick 1923-34 4cyl.

Buick 1924-35 4cyl.

Buick 1925-25 6cyl.

Buick 1956-76C

Exelsior Super X 1929.MC </div></div>

Leif, I'm curious to know what the average family income is in Sweden, perhaps in a place comparable to New York, in US dollars? Just to put things in perspective. Thanks!

[MarkV]

Twitch,

'As for making fun of Pebble Beachers' cars and attitudes I'd be pretty damned paranoid if I'd just finished a 500K restoration of a 1938 Delage, Delahaye, Rolls, Talbot or Maserati with the usual fair of stumble-by hicks with their brood of sticky, drooling clones trailing behind at an auto event.'

First, when have you ever seen people of this type at Pebble Beach? or Concours? Making fun of types of people is not the way to garner more classic car fans. (This is part of the reason that the classic car 'thing' is falling apart, because it is slowly become more and more elite on the Natl. level) As for the $5000000 restoration,if, they are worried about their cars, they can save the bragging rights and the white gloved, champaigne drinking car show for other cars who's owners do not mind people looking at them from 2 ft. away.

'Guys with "regular" vintage vehicles are wary enough of viewers I've noticed with signs on all corners as they sit for hours, eyes on their cars.'

These people have only become wary because everyone thinks that every old car is worth a fortune!

'I can agree with Wayne and Ron insofar as the truly rare, high dollar vehicles must be trailered to be seen safely. There is a point where investment outweighs the NEED for Joe Doaks or the Gomer brothers to get a view of a $600,000 car driving on a freeway.'

I also said that if the car is unsafe or very very rare that it SHOULD!! Be TRAILERED! And this is where it gets sticky, people should be able to look and enjoy ALL old cars, they are not an 'Investment' in my opinion, and if they are for some, then you need to get out of the hobby and collect something else, like gold or stamps or something!, because it is people like you who have made the prices of even the most easy to find Classics, Mustangs, etc. go sky hi to where young people are unable to afford them, because everyone thinks that they have a gold mine on their hands! You should be in the hobby because you enjoy it! Not for an investment, and a $600,000 dollar car should not be driven on the fwy. anyway! maybe on surface streets, if you have enough money for one of those cars, then you have the money to fix it if something happens! Jay Leno drives his cars all the time! 'Joe Doaks' has just as much right to see you car (as long as he does not scratch it, etc.) as the glove wearing, champaigne drinking, fru fru folks at Concours or Pebble Beach. And as far as I know the 'Gomer' (or maybe it was just Gomer Pyle?) brothers fixed old cars in Mayberry on Andy Griffith back in the 60's

[MarkV]

Zondac12,

YES! I completly agree! WAY TO GO! I WOULD DO THE SAME!!!!!

[MarkV]

GRANNY'S 70 SKYLARK,

Here is the thing about gas prices in Europe, within 10 minutes, some are in a different country, they do not have to drive 50 miles to get to work everyday, if they drove 50 miles they would either be in the ocean or in another country! That is what no one seems to realise with the price difference and this proves my point, that when the gas mileage is increased and cars get 40-100 and up miles a gallon the prices will be raised so, they will still be getting the same money but, with less product used like in Europe!

[Guest ZondaC12]

Yeah it's mostly city-dwellers that will more than likely be sitting on a bicycle or Vespa or at most, a Fiat Punto which is about the size of a golf cart Trust me I went to Italy with my family 7 years ago WOW i've never seen so many bicycles in my life!!

[MarkV]

Those poor people in Europe deprived of the simple pleasures of a classic car!

[Leif Holmberg]

Reply to GRANNY 70 SKYLARK Gary.

I`m retired electrican since 1 year,and the last 3 years i worked 50% and my income was $30700,(83%)if I had been working 100% my income had been $ 37000.My wife earn around $31000 a year as a cook in a pre-school.It dosen`t matter were you live in Sweden the income are compareble,exept for the biggest citys.Compering to Stockholm the capital of Sweden you have to add the income 10%-40%.We live 125 mile north Stockholm.We pay 33% tax on the income,and we also pay 25% on most of the parts and things we buy ,like food ,clothes,carparts and so on,+ house tax $ 700.

When I worked I had 25 days holiday,and my wife has 32 days holiday.Today as retired I have $26000,and can be working in my garage from morning to evening if I want to.

Leif in Sweden.

[Dandy Dave]

I like to drive my 1915 Buick, but there is no way I am taking it on the interstate unless it is on/in a trailer!

When I get to Flint 2008, I'll drive it around some and then go off and have some fun on the after tour with other cars that are my speed. Looks like the after tour will put about 400 to 500 miles on her. I'm on my way, Flint 2008!!!

Dave!

[my65riv]

I drove my 60 caddy down to a repair shop in my little town a few months back.When i pulled in all the guys stopped what they were doing and a few had a big grin on their faces.One of the teenagers there commented " you drive this???"I told him sure i do.My dad loves to take his old car and drive it slllooowwwllyy through a new car lot and watch the salesman bail out of the office and run,haha.He has been known to get on the highway and drive under the speed limit so people could see the car(i rode with him one time in a beautiful 1950 packard he restored).

Jeff Mealer

Mt. Juliet,TN.

[Ron Green]

Quote: "'Guys with "regular" vintage vehicles are wary enough of viewers I've noticed with signs on all corners as they sit for hours, eyes on their cars."

Unfortunately at some shows / events this is necessary. I have seen people crawl in someone's old car so they could sit and have lunch.

Quote: "I can agree with Wayne and Ron insofar as the truly rare, high dollar vehicles must be trailered to be seen safely."

I actually use my trailer more for the driver antique then my trailer queen. Get to the place, unload and drive the he$$ out of it. People still have the opportunity to see an old car out on the road just not when it is in transit to getting there.

Quote: "Jay Leno drives his cars all the time!

Jay Leno drives his cars mostly around the block or on nearby streets.

[Guest Skyking]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Leif Holmberg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">,+ house tax $ 700.

</div></div>

$700.00..........you can tell this isn't America!

[Twitch]

Ron- right, depending on the venue owners will be wary of onlookers but for good reason. There are street-park cruise-ins places where kids on bikes ride by. Scraaatch! There are neighborhoods where people of all ages are "handier" than others and are unable to resist touching.

I've let kids, with their parents, sit in my Packard after talking to them awhile. It's just an average special interest car, not a work of art.

We talk about trailered cars of great value. Well at one cruise-in this guy shows up with this V-16 Cadillac

He was pretty old and not all that cognizant of the throng of people that suddenly was at the car. Immediately there was a a woman, wife of another vintage car owner, leaning with her juicy armpit on the top of the door and a kid on the running board! Before a couple of the nearby owners were able to get a watch set up to help the Cad owner many hands were on it. Some teenager even opened the door and I yelled at him.

THIS is why owners of quarter million dollar and up cars don't go to neighborhood events.

As for hanging out with people and #4 cars, 48 Lincoln, opposed to concours types. I've done enough hanging out with Joe Doaks and his ubiquitous 57 Chevy 4 dr. sedan.

The vehicles represented at a place like Pebble Beach are truly museum quality in rarity, function and appearance.

Most assuredly I would not want many viewers in touching range of my Figoni et Falaschi Talbot-Lago or Delahaye either. And I wouldn't expect an owner of such a masterpiece to have done any wrenching on it either. Exotic autos are best restored by qualified experts. Even Leno, who was a motorcycle mechanic doesn't get his hands into things. He has people for that.

In the concours end of the hobby there is no shame in spending high dollars for impressive results. The B & J auctions are simply pissing contests with nouvo rich schlubs with more money than brains overspending for regular vehicles like 66 Comet Cyclones.

The people who trailer legitimately superb autos are not to blame for artificial prices so "kids" can't get into the hobby either. The auction crowd bidding up cars of dubious heritage and value then re-negotiating with their insurance companies to re-evaluate are mostly to blame. They put a super high reserve on a car worth 50K. The dummies with money to burn and the "by God I want that car no matter what!" attitude bid it up to 85K and of course the reserve holds it. The owner has legal bids for 85K and his insurance now ups its value.

In fact there was a B & J auction where a very nice Mustang worth 15K anywhere got bid to 85K in a war between 2 chumps.

Then our buddy Joe Doaks sees that and figures his rat trap 66 Mustang is also worth much more than imaginable. I see cars for sale at events all the time at outreagous prices and find several equal or better cars on Ebay for 2/3s less when I go home. Problem is there are enough dummies with $$ willing to pay above premium prices because they think they're "investing" instead of just having fun with old cars.

Trailers make sense for a guy like Skyking even though his vehicles aren't councours cars. They make sense for moving multiple cars to a venue. If a guy trailers his $80,000 un-rare Chevy in relative terms it probably represents as big an investment as the Concours guy's $3 million Dusenberg.

People should just do what they wanna do. It's their cars and their moneys..

[ex98thdrill]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now when I close up the trailer on one of my "Queens" I get a nice warm feeling of both security and responsibility</div></div>Bob, i know your feeling. It is so nice to unload a vehicle, put it on the show field, and everything is already shined up and ready to be judged. The people who drive and/or haul their vehicles to the meets on an open trailer don't have that luxury.

When we bring the fire truck to a national meet, we don't have an enclosed trailer big enough to fit the fire truck in it, so we have to borrow an open trailer from a friend. When we arrive at the show field, we have a lot of cleaning once we get there, but like the guys who are driving their vehicles, it's nice to drive down the road and get the horns blowing, waves, thumbs up, and double takes that you never get with the enclosed trailer.

It's pretty neat to pull out of Hershey with the truck on that big open trailer and the truck is still shined up looking its' best as we're rolling down the highway. When we stop for gas, something to eat, etc. the site of that truck on the trailer always strikes up conversations.

I too prefer the enclosed trailer, but the only drawback is that the drive isn't as entertaining or enjoyable and to a degree, you're missing out by tucking your car away out of sight.

[Guest ZondaC12]

WOW, Twitch I guess my area must be a fluke because if he brought that thing to the big local cruise Wednesday nights right near me, it would recieve the exact OPPOSITE treatment by onlookers. In fact some guy this summer once or twice brought his...I wanna say it was a MARMON or something, REALLY rare he said the particular year and model and this and that made it very very rare. It was his fathers and it was all in boxes, mostly restored, just apart.

That's really too bad because I believe those oughta be out 'n' about too! I know for a fact that if I owned one of the upper-echelon super-rare mega-old-classics we're talking about, especially those that are really big custom-bodied and draw a lot of attention, I could 100% safely bring it to that cruise night and the only thing that would be hurt is me. A VERY sore throat and neck from constantly whipping back and forth answering questions and chatting with the crowd around it. It's a disease. I can't stop, if you talk my ear off I'll talk yours into FLAMES. I may just do that on my own, not just as reciprocation! I just lose all self control

[MarkV]

'Quote: "Jay Leno drives his cars all the time!

Jay Leno drives his cars mostly around the block or on nearby streets. '

Actually, he drove one of his right hand cars from the teens to the writer's strike line at one of the studios in Hollywood, at the start of the strike to show support! His house is out of town probably longer than just around the block!

'As for hanging out with people and #4 cars, 48 Lincoln, opposed to concours types. I've done enough hanging out with Joe Doaks and his ubiquitous 57 Chevy 4 dr. sedan.'

Well, Twitch, maybe you are hanging around the wrong crowd!

'Most assuredly I would not want many viewers in touching range of my Figoni et Falaschi Talbot-Lago or Delahaye either. And I wouldn't expect an owner of such a masterpiece to have done any wrenching on it either. Exotic autos are best restored by qualified experts. Even Leno, who was a motorcycle mechanic doesn't get his hands into things. He has people for that.'

A car is a car is a car! if they had the money to fix it in the first place, then they have it again, and if they don't want to risk it then keep the car at home in a bunker with a plastic tarp over it and see what happens! (see- miss Belvedere (car in AZ)). Leno only leaves it up to other people for 3 reasons:

He has to many cars and cannot work on them all

He is very very busy

He has so many that he does not know the specifics about each one to do it right

'The people who trailer legitimately superb autos are not to blame for artificial prices so "kids" can't get into the hobby either. The auction crowd bidding up cars of dubious heritage and value then re-negotiating with their insurance companies to re-evaluate are mostly to blame. They put a super high reserve on a car worth 50K. The dummies with money to burn and the "by God I want that car no matter what!" attitude bid it up to 85K and of course the reserve holds it. The owner has legal bids for 85K and his insurance now ups its value'

Actually, if you look in the various price guides, etc. they always say that the values are compiled by, looking at professional assessments and current AUCTIONS!

So, who's fault is it then? There are many young folks, my age, who percieve that owning a classic car is so expensive and that they cannot afford it, because they see auctions, for sale signs, and local papers. I deflect the arguments by using the facts, No car payments, cheap repairs, and the list goes on.. But, the point is, that due to the auctions, and places like ebay and these lots with old cars on them everyone thinks that their junker could pad their retirement, leaving out young guys like myself, who have not been as lucky as I have been (5 times with 5 cars overall).

[MarkV]

ZondaC12,

My throat hurts after every car show, where I take my old '48 Lincoln! People always tell me how they have never seen one like it before! and how it is all orig. (almost!) The current record, was when I had it in the Los Angeles County Fair Parade, I was in the parade and stood there, with the car on display in the fairgrounds w/o caution tape like the others did for 4 1/2 hours with people around it the whole time!

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Skyking</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Leif Holmberg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">,+ house tax $ 700.

</div></div>

$700.00..........you can tell this isn't America! </div></div>

The tax burden in the U.S. is 28.2%, virtually the lowest in the Western World. The average tax burden in Europe is currently 39.8%, and Sweden's (the highest in Europe) is 50.1%

And while ours has increased all of about 3% since 1975, both of theirs have gone up by nearly 10% in the same time frame.

Yes Sky, you can tell this isn't America.

The tax burden in Sweden and internationally

[Guest Skyking]

Dave, I guess I'm living in the wrong part of the country. I believe R.I. is the second or third highest taxed state in the US. Just another reason people are leaving.....

[Guest Skyking]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Twitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Trailers make sense for a guy like Skyking even though his vehicles aren't councours cars.

</div></div>

Twitch, as a matter of fact they are in concours condition, but that don't stop us from driving them, just not on 80 mph roads. I put over a 1000 miles on my 57 last year.

[Guest ZondaC12]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1948Lincoln</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ZondaC12,

My throat hurts after every car show, where I take my old '48 Lincoln! People always tell me how they have never seen one like it before! and how it is all orig. (almost!) The current record, was when I had it in the Los Angeles County Fair Parade, I was in the parade and stood there, with the car on display in the fairgrounds w/o caution tape like the others did for 4 1/2 hours with people around it the whole time! </div></div>

I come home and mom's like "Why are you so hoarse!!!!? You need to take it down a notch." Haha its ALWAYS worth it. I don't care I have too much fun to notice. I only suddenly feel the sharp pain on the way home. Sleep it off next day I'm ready for more yakkity yak yak!!!!!

[serb]

What Paul is saying is absolutely true. I met him in Albany this past June and he was never at a loss for words. He would talk to you until you gave up and then some one else would ask him about his car and off he went again. This is in no way meant as criticism.It was quite an experienc to meet Paul and listen to him talk about his car.

Paul, I hope you never lose your enthusiasm and drive.

Stevo

[Twitch]

Zonda- The ignoramouses pawing the V-16 were 4 people out of hundreds. They venue is perpetually safe. Once he got set up after parking everything went nicely.

We all find no end to talking with viewers. Each car at an event has some memory or stigma for viewers who want to share it all with you. The old cars tickle the nostalgia like little else does.

I simply don't see truly expensive/exotic classics at local cruise-ins or summer car shows. Where are they? These vehicles owners attend more upscale events that actually cost money for viewers to enter and the cars may be roped off I suppose.

Everybody thinks they'd drive their half million dollar car around as if it was a beater. We imagine that if we were rich enough these would be daily drivers instead of new Maybachs and Bentleys. The reality is we'd be very tired of beefing them around after any length of time and would do our daily cruising in the Bentley. Yeah we maybe would drive our Caddy V-16 once a week OK?

We have to reckon that people are civilized and would do no harm to display cars. We go into the restaurant and eat leaving out cars alone, but the other owners keep eyes out. The fact that some locations where events are held are not equal to others in drawing only civil people.

The fact is that onlookers generally know you are one of the guys sitting in the chairs behind the cars and don't go opening doors or touching things. That's what keeps it all neutral.

48Lincoln- Your friend Jay Leno has mellowed in the last few years and actually walks amongst the people at times! He used to tell how he'd take out one of his old cars with a definite route in mind and never stopped for anything so people wouldn't talk to him and croaw around the car! That's how he lived with his cars.

Anyone that has as many cars as he has can't possibly do anything to them. He ain't got the time. That's fine.

You may say cars are cars are cars but uh, it ain't so in my opinion. An $8,000 49 Hudson 4-dr in "not too bad of shape original condition" pretty much means it needs complete restoration in all areas to be showroom again. Doesn't mean we can't drive it and enjoy it "as is." Just like everyone don't like modded cars some just don't like half derilict looking cars even if the owner enjoys the heap.

But even if we restore the Huddy it's still reasonable in value- $20,000- the cost of an almost new daily driver. So there you are.

On the other side of the hobby are the truly rare and exotic cars many of which are the only examples remaining. Sure rich folks look at the hobby differently. Yeah cars is cars but even the rich have protective feelings for their cars no matter if they're insured to the hilt.

Most of them have no specialized mechanical skills for auto restoration. Even if one chap like Leno was mechanical it doesn't guarantee he could upholster or hammer out aluminum body panels or paint the car to perfection. Hey I can't either so that puts them on par with Joe Schmoes like me.

And when they do show their cars at prestige events I have absolutely no problem appreciating them behind ropes just like the museums because many of the Councours event cars are as good or better than museum examples.

And sorry but I don't buy what you're selling as to the fact that allegedly values are mostly set by auctions. Auctions are only one aspect and it states to beware of the BS belief that auctions are a yardstick for estimating values for vintage vehicles.

Collector Car Market Review says-

"Pricing sources: Auctions, sales reports, Value-Track® database, classifieds and the general market (contacts, shows, etc.).".....

......."About Auction Results: Auctions are just one part of the collector car marketplace. Many collectors get the impression that if they see a 1957 Chevy sell for $70,000 at a major auction, then theirs must be worth that, too. This is a misconception. Auctions often bring above market prices for very nice cars. The reasons are many: there's money in the audience, egos come into play, bidders can get caught in the moment, and sometimes the cars that show up to an auction such as Barrett-Jackson or Pebble Beach are just stunning, one-of-a-kind, mega-buck restorations.

Unfortunately, all is not always as it seems at an auction. Sometimes prices are bid up with "phantom" bidders, cars are declared sold that aren't, and even the bidding can be completely fabricated. In addition, dealers may bid among themselves soley to create the illusion of both interest and high values for specific cars.

This doesn't mean that you should always avoid collector car auctions. Go to a few and observe what goes on, get a feel for how things work and decide for yourself. If you do decide to bid, ask the seller a lot of questions. Sellers with good cars will be more than happy to talk to you.

Finally, our auction editors tend to be conservative in their condition estimates. Take this into consideration when viewing auction results and the sale or bid price."

Every event I go to I tell someone of whatever age that they can own a vintage car. They don't have to spend 50K for a 57 Chevy. They can get a nice Studebaker for $6,000 or that Hudson for $8,000. Maybe a nice 51 Nash for $7,000.

And the older guys I encourage more than others since it's time they did something for themselves after a lifetime of working for their kids and a house.

[Ron Green]

Twitch, great post. And may I add amen.

[Guest ZondaC12]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Twitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Everybody thinks they'd drive their half million dollar car around as if it was a beater. We imagine that if we were rich enough these would be daily drivers instead of new Maybachs and Bentleys. The reality is we'd be very tired of beefing them around after any length of time and would do our daily cruising in the Bentley. Yeah we maybe would drive our Caddy V-16 once a week OK?</div></div>

First of all I want to second the last comment. I agree, good post, you summed it up well.

On the bit I quoted, also totally agree. I couldn't daily drive my '38. No way. Even if braking and power were up to modern standards, between the stiffness of the spring in that clutch pedal and not being able to turn the steering wheel if the car is not in motion for say 3 point turns, it just wouldn't work out.

BUT when I did take out (insert megabucks car here) I would have as much fun with it as possible. Honestly the mileage/wear and tear on the car is enough for me to not want to use it too much. I suppose if I lived in the dry dry West and I had a hot-rod (at least the whole modern drivetrain anyway...I probably would leave the body entirely alone!) then I would love to have that as my daily car, for the looks it would have. But at one point this summer I had some bodywork done on the '87 Cougar, so...for a few days...the Buick actually became my daily car! At least if it wasn't raining anyway. And coindicentally I ended up having many places to go. It got old rather quickly. I was interested to see what it would be like, and I missed the heck out of the Cougar. Then again I would say the biggest nuisance was the manual transmission and lack of power (the Cougar I swapped on Mustang parts so it is at the H.O. spec not S.O., 225 hp not 150 out of that 5.0 V8 so it's worse still because the Cougar is rather fast).

I almost wonder were it an automatic and able to keep up with traffic flow as well as maybe your average compact or something similarly low on the speed totem pole, if I would have no problem with it as my daily car. I think the wear on everything would still worry me. That and handling I suppose, this thing has a very mooshy ride which I love but not in a million years could I make some of the maneuvers I've made in the cat!