AI for Car Repair

[drhach]

My employer recently held a seminar on AI in the business environment. I kind of have a vague idea of it, and it was interesting to hear the person's perspective on its's uses in the business world. He talked about several AI systems that are available. one of them was copilot by Microsoft. I figured I would check it out. It opens with this plain page and gives you a text box where you can type a question. Kind of intimidating. What do you ask after all? Well, I've been working on my Buick lately, so I thought I'd ask it a question about Buicks. So, I typed in "How do you seal a torque ball on a 1942 Buick". Very much to my surprise, it laid out a series of numbered steps going through the process. It skipped many important details, but it also asks you if you want to ask for more specifics on anything that it has displayed. I would never use this a guide to reparenting my car, and I'm certainly not pushing for this. But it was also quite surprising that it could get to the level of detail that it did. This is by no means an endorsement of AI. Just an observation. I pasted in the text of what it said below. 

 

Sealing the torque ball on a 1942 Buick involves several steps. Here’s a general guide to help you through the process:

1. Preparation:

   • Lift the Car: Use jack stands to lift the car high enough to work comfortably underneath.
   • Remove Components: Disconnect the rear sway bar and remove the coil springs and wheels to access the torque ball assembly.

2. Disassembly:

   • Disconnect the Torque Tube: Unbolt the torque tube from the transmission. You might need a come-along to pull it back if it’s stuck¹.
   • Remove the Old Seal: Carefully remove the old seal from the torque ball assembly. Clean the area thoroughly to ensure a good seal with the new one².

3. Installing the New Seal:

   • Position the New Seal: Place the new seal in the torque ball retainer. Make sure it’s seated properly.
   • Use Guide Pins: When mating the torque ball to the torque tube, use guide pins to avoid damaging the new seal¹.

4. Reassembly:

   • Reconnect the Torque Tube: Align the torque tube with the transmission and bolt it back in place. Ensure everything is level to avoid binding¹.
   • Reattach Components: Reconnect the rear sway bar, coil springs, and wheels.

5. Final Checks:

   • Test for Leaks: After reassembly, check for any leaks around the new seal. Tighten any bolts if necessary.

This process can be a bit involved, so take your time and ensure each step is done correctly. If you run into any issues, consulting a detailed repair manual or seeking advice from a professional might be helpful.

Do you have any specific questions about any of these steps?

Edited September 12 by drhach (see edit history)

[Hemi Joel]

The AI didn't just know that or make it up. It had to grab the information from somewhere. 

So my question is who's going to put in the time, effort, and money to generate and publish good information, just to have it snatched and disseminated for free by AI?

[Steve_Mack_CT]

One way might be scraping forums like ours so you get the good, the bad and the ugly.  

 

I think I will stick with manuals, experienced fellow hobbyists and the collective knowledge of good forums like ours and leave AI write ups for grad students pinched for time...

[drhach]

1 hour ago, Hemi Joel said:

The AI didn't just know that or make it up. It had to grab the information from somewhere. 

So my question is who's going to put in the time, effort, and money to generate and publish good information, just to have it snatched and disseminated for free by AI?

You're absolutely right. It surfed the internet and encapsulated what it found. I think the information that it returned is as ambiguous as the information that it found.

 

Honestly, it probably isn't too different from most of the "experts" who post on various internet forums or Facebook. It reminds me of a conversation I had once with one of the Scoutmasters in my Son's Boy Scout troop. This guy is a huge know it all. He will talk endlessly about any topic.  This time, he was talking about building fires and he started spouting off about the "rubbing two sticks together" method. He said, I've never been able to do this successfully, but the secret to doing it is...." I tuned him out after that. 

 

The term "AI" is thrown around a lot lately. I don't really have an opinion about whether it's good or bad. I suppose in the end, it depends on how you use it. I do know that I couldn't approach a complete stranger and ask this question and expect any level of knowledge to come from them. Also, the information that was provided in this case came in seconds. It took longer to type the question than it did for a response. Of course it doesn't matter how quickly you get a response if the response bogus. So there's that. Just an interesting data point. I'll be sticking to my paper manuals for a while. 

[wayne sheldon]

Yes "AI" is like any tool. Whether it is good or bad depends upon how it is used. A hammer can be used build a home. Or a hammer can be used to bash in your brains.

However, repairing an automobile is a lot more complicated than step by step instructions! It requires some amount of experience to have the "feeling" of how things should be put together. It demands good judgement to determine whether a part is good enough to be used or not. How to tighten a bolt enough to stay put but not break it?

 

AI is a "one size fits all" philosophy. Truth is, "one size fits all" almost never fits anyone very well.

[Twisted Shifter]

Well, it's reassuring that at least some people trust AI.

 

China refuses to sign agreement to ban AI from controlling nuclear weapons.

                                                                     - Reuters News Service   09/10/2024

 

[marcapra]

Someone asked AI how to restore my 48 DeSoto and all it said was a list of platitudes and cliche's.  Like "restoring a car is a complicated endeavor.  If you run into trouble, seek professional advice!"  

[Littlestown Mike]

Like any other tool, AI can be useful, but....  Have you seen the AI articles on specific popular old cars?  It seems to get some of the information correct, but often has some obvious errors.  However, the "pictures" AI creates of some old cars are hilarious--some specific features --the overall styling is close, but when you start looking at details, you realize that it is a very distorted view.

[TAKerry]

The original post on repairing the Buick seems informative. However the instructions seem very basic to me. I am not that versed in mechanical issues although the more I work on my the more I learn. The AI information seems like just enough for a person to be dangerous. It doesnt specifically say how to do some of the tasks, or if a special tool is needed. It does seem like a good outline for someone that knows what they are doing though, which brings up the question, if you know what youre doing why do you need this?

 

I barely think smart phones are a necessity, but I suppose that AI will be common place before too long. Will just have to nod and grin and keep moving along.

[R Walling]

 This article reminds me of a time when cash registers were first introduced in stores.

  Many people were distrustful of the new machine that told them how much they had to pay for their groceries.

 Finally, the manufacturer had to put glass windows on the sides or the machines to show that there was something more than magic inside.

 Eventually a printed tape was issued to the customer so that they could add up the items themselves and then began to trust them.

 I guess that time will show us how to trust AI.

(we already know that everything that we read on the internet is the truth!)...

 

[drhach]

2 hours ago, TAKerry said:

...., but I suppose that AI will be common place before too long. Will just have to nod and grin and keep moving along.

It already is commonplace. There are many many instances where it's so seamless that you don't notice it. Google already uses AI, so your search responses are formed by that. This can be a cause for concern because if the information is misleading, you will go down a bad road and trust that it's right. But this isn't anything new. 25 years ago, I was in a store and I was purchasing what should have been a $2-$2 item. The kid rang it up and it said $200. He looked me straight in the eye and said, "ok, that will be $200". I laughed at first and then realized he wasn't kidding. Clearly the barcode was wrong, but he didn't have the sense to question it. 

 

To me, it's the I in AI that I find intriguing. I took a logic class in college and one of the thing's my professor said that really stuck with me was, "if you can't explain your position, you probably don't know what you're talking about". For the longest time, the real roadblock to AI was computing power. We've overcome that, now we have to define intelligence and understand the iterative process involved in acquiring it. Programming in an ability to learn is huge. But clearly this isn't all of it because the human experience is much more nuanced. It's allowing us to question what it really means to be intelligent. 

 

Right now, the only real tool that this system has is the internet. The output is only as good as the searchable content. 

[R Walling]

 When I search a question on Google or other sites, I never stop at the first "answer." I always read the other "suggestions" and form an opinion from a consensus of all the "answers"

 

 I have found definite conflicting "answers" that are totally opposite each other.

[arcticbuicks]

Perhaps we could have a AI member on the forum ? 

[JFranklin]

5 minutes ago, arcticbuicks said:

Perhaps we could have a AI member on the forum ? 

Then ask what oil is best and blow things up!

[Norman Biggs]

When I think of what the children of the last 30 year have grown with AI will come almost natural to them.  But like it or not AI is here.  It holds lots of promis for so many industries and fields and jobs will disappear or change (cotton gin, horse and buggy, etc).  My fear is just like the internet it will be use buy less than honest people or governments.

[drhach]

1 hour ago, arcticbuicks said:

Perhaps we could have a AI member on the forum ? 

If you use the autocorrect feature for typing responses here, you are already using AI. I'm not necessarily excited to see where this stuff all goes, but I am curious. There have always been people out there trying to separate someone from their money and using whatever tools of the day there were for doing that. I have no doubt that this can be used for bad purposes. My hope is that good can come of it too. Obviously the media is going to play on our fears. But that isn't anything new either. So far, we still have the option of turning off the computers if we don't like what's going with them. 

[TAKerry]

1 hour ago, JFranklin said:

Then ask what oil is best and blow things up!

Or how to get a title for a car!

[drhach]

I couldn't resist

 

Getting a lost title for a classic car can be a bit of a process, but here are the general steps you can follow:

1. Find the VIN: Locate the Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) on your car. This is essential for any title-related paperwork¹.

2. Contact the DMV: Reach out to your local Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) to understand the specific requirements and forms needed in your state¹.

3. Apply for a Duplicate Title: Most states have a form you can fill out to request a duplicate title. This form is usually available on the DMV’s website².

4. Get a Bonded Title: If the car has no title and you can’t get a duplicate, you might need a bonded title. This involves purchasing a surety bond, which acts as a form of insurance for the title¹.

5. Court-Ordered Title: In some cases, you may need to go through a legal process to get a court-ordered title. This can be more complex and may require legal assistance¹.

6. Use Title Services: There are companies that specialize in helping people get titles for classic cars. They can guide you through the process and handle much of the paperwork³.

[Tom C]

I’ll continue the old school method myself, even when I have to read through greasy fingerprints.

[1957Birdman]

If you asked the average antique car savvy guy, he would know that you should be looking for the serial number, since VIN numbers weren’t mandated until 1981 in the United States. When it comes to computers, “garbage in, garbage out.” Will it get to the point where it can think like a human? Remember HAL 9000? Probably something we should not hope for.

One other note. Almost all stores these days have UPC code readers and no one thinks a thing of it. IBM was a leader in that technology. I worked there in the 1970s. There was a lot of concern about acceptance of this in IBM since the sales price wasn’t tagged on the item, at least in grocery stores. They went ahead with it and the rest is history.

Lew Bachman

1957 Thunderbird 

[JV Puleo]

It would seem to me that the fundamental problem with AI, as far as highly subjective topics such as antiques are concerned, is that no electronic brain is going to be able to discern between good information and rubbish. I'm thinking here about a subject I'm currently writing a book on...a family of 18th century gunmakers that are very well known to American collectors because they exported literally thousands of arms to the US between 1792 and about 1830. They have been mentioned in American books back to 1912 and virtually everything that has been written about them is simply wrong, albeit often based on well-meaning conjecture. It's only since the advent of computerized library and archival records (and none of those are available on the internet...only indexes that give clues as where to look) that it's even been possible to unravel the story but the bad information is still out there. People are still relying on long outdated sources and the internet makes it possible for that bad information to be shared with the entire world.

Edited September 14 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

I am very much in favor of AI. The human elements of its design need a lot of advancement as well as the human user interface.

 

The benefit is that it can be programmed so you cannot go to the next step without completing the current step. The medical field is notorious for skipping or ignoring sequences of procedure.

 

Continuous verification is key. Method of verification and end goal are lacking in so many fields. Human perception vs achievement of goals can be resolved. AI could free us from The Richard Scarry School of Management most of the world suffers from.

 

I am retired but one of the most frequent comments I remember is "In a perfect world we could do what you want". What I wanted was to follow the sequence and verify the steps. Humans will shirk that.

[DAVES89]

22 hours ago, arcticbuicks said:

Perhaps we could have a AI member on the forum ? 

I nominate Captain Tuttle!

[JFranklin]

1 hour ago, DAVES89 said:

I nominate Captain Tuttle!

I had to look him up, never heard that name!

[DAVES89]

Captain Turtle is a fictious character who was killed in action in a MASH episode

 It just played this week

 

[Ronnie]

I like AI. It's my favorite steak sauce.  

[60FlatTop]

I have been using computers as an integral part of my working career since 1974. There are a lot of simple examples of artificial intelligence that have been working, unknown in general, for decades.

In 1983 my work applications took a large leap. At the time I asked our service provider for a recommendation on a home computer. He pointed at the latest and greatest saying "Nothing. From what you expect from this nothing will please you." Simply put I expected to be able to write a sentence and have the computer carry out the command. AI in my mind. In 1002 I was granted a patent on a three sentence program to discern and release non-condensable gas from a mixture. Simple short statement things.

 

You know what they say- "It ain't rocket surgery."

[Amateroy23]

On 9/12/2024 at 3:44 PM, Hemi Joel said:

The AI didn't just know that or make it up. It had to grab the information from somewhere. 

So my question is who's going to put in the time, effort, and money to generate and publish good information, just to have it snatched and disseminated for free by AI?

Seems like a bad idea to me!!