Regional Old Car Prices

[Crusty Trucker]

Private party old car prices seem increasingly more regional. Case in point is the discussion currently in the "For Sale - Not Mine" forum section concerning a 1948 Buick. The seller's representative feels that in his Southern California market, the car should sell in the $20k range and backs that up with comparable local sales. A poster from New York boldly replied that it was probably a $10k car, each, no doubt, looking at it in relation to their local markets, observations, and experience.

 

I'm sure the seller won't listen to a $10k offer knowing the local potential and the supply and demand situation and a buyer from New York, even if he were able to make a $10k purchase would be looking at another $3k to $4k in transport fees just to get it to his driveway plus the additional $2k or so to get it safely and reliably on the road. 

 

I guess the point here is like old Tip O'Neill once said, "All real estate is local".   ...and that goes for antique car sales, too.  The exception would be national auctions where bidders from all over the country, or the world, bid on and purchase unusually exceptional examples of rare cars, despite their sobriety, or lack of. Published public auction prices, hence the values of the cars are what they are.

 

Those old car "valuation tools" found on the internet need to be taken with a grain (or a pound) of salt, IMHO. Taking an average of auction results, fold in an average of "reported" private asking prices and sales from every corner of the country, including the middle, and coming up with an "average" value based upon what mainly local buyers have paid, is, at best, a WAG. Maybe it's some loose kind of a guide, but by no means any kind of a reliable, much less scientific, figure for use beyond insurance and financing, or (oh yeah) tax purposes. Unfortunately, I don't think an army of PhD statisticians could figure a more accurate way of determining an individual car's value, or they would have done it by now.

 

So, like always, were stuck with what Bill in Oregon thinks what Ted's car in Georgia is worth, and vice-versa. The good deal in Florida is an optimistic dream in Iowa. The rusty project in New Jersey is a joke in Arizona. 

 

The only valid agreement on the true value of an antique car is the final handshake and exchange of cash between a satisfied buyer and a satisfied seller. 

 

End of personal opinions and observations (for now).

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 23 by Crusty Trucker (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

This does seem to be more and more the case. The cost of transport is rising rapidly. So it's either put up with whatever your local selection and pricing is or go without.

 I just a couple of days ago asked for a ball park cost estimate from one of the haulers that is on here quite a bit. Upstate New York  to Washington State. Very small car { inop } and very flexible time frame. Trying to figure out if I can afford the purchase or not.  His only reply was that virtually no vintage car was worth hauling that long a distance. I guess things are really that bad if you figure it's not even worth your time to provide a quote when you are in the hauling business. 

 

Edited February 23 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[auburnseeker]

It's probably worth checking with another hauler then. . I have used two regular members of this forum and had excellent service.  Never once did they tell me it's not worth hauling.   I've even had them haul literature as well as cars.  They were great to deal with.  Bill and Rusty tin man.  

 

Maybe your particular car will be too expensive to haul,  but I still think they would give you a ball park price,  which depends on connections and back hauls.  

[Matt Harwood]

It is my personal and professional advice to spend the money on shipping, regardless of cost, to get the car you want. Limiting yourself to what's local means you either don't get what you want or you go without. Buy the right car and pay whatever it costs to get it home. It's still cheaper than settling for a local turd with needs.

 

And please don't ask the seller to underwrite your shipping by saying stupid stuff like, "Well, I have to pay for shipping, so I can only pay you $XXX." Shipping isn't the seller's problem--negotiate for the car that you want, not the lowest possible price for an all-inclusive deal. That's just embarrassing yourself.

 

I should write an article about the 10 dumb questions everyone asks but shouldn't when buying a car. That's like #4.

 

 

Edited February 23 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

Thanks, I will do that. Yes I figured the flexible time frame would make things easier regarding back hauls, seemingly not in this case. 

[Gunsmoke]

While the old quote "All real estate is local" may be a truism, it will only apply to old cars in a limited way. A better truism is "Supply and Demand". In any transaction, both supply and demand affect price. A 1948 Buick is not likely anyone's dream car, but for a Buick lover, it might be high on a list of favorites. Depending on the model (4dr sedan or convertible), condition (1 or 10), and proximity to home (5 miles, 1000 miles), it might be in demand for a small group. On the supply side, in any given area, there are usually lots of older "common" cars available at a price, and condition and rarity often rule. This supply/demand formula can be broadened considerably for rare and highly sought after cars (let's say the $100K +market), when the marketplace becomes no longer just local, but national or international. 

 

But that is a different playing field for most of us.   

[1912Staver]

The seller is already offering the car { project car , but very good condition, just no engine / gearbox } at a extremely good price. I would not attempt to dicker even one $ off his asking price. But I know from past experience that by the time I get it home in Canada when the dust settles I am going to be into it for 2- 2 1/2 times the cost of the car itself. Purchase , transport , brokerage, costs at the border { Canadian taxes }, exchange. Just trying to figure out if I can fit it into a pretty slim hobby car budget. It's one of perhaps 25 cars in North America ,from an obscure but very well regarded in its hobby niche British car maker. They built over 400 cars overall , but most are still in the U.K.  There used to be two of them local to me years ago and I really liked them a lot. But when they were eventually for sale my finances were in tatters and both were sold to the U.S.

Edited February 23 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[Dr B]

18 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

I should write an article about the 10 dumb questions everyone asks but shouldn't when buying a car. That's like #4.

YES!!!! Great idea. Please do. With all your professional experience, I would love to see your list. 

 

Robert

Edited February 23 by Dr B (see edit history)

[Dr B]

8 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

would not attempt to dicker even one $ off his asking price.

I always found this issue interesting. I know of some people who will "negotiate" to the bitter end, beating the seller to a pulp. To them, I think it is either a game or an obsession. Others will make one attempt at reducing the selling price, asking respectfully if the seller will take x less. I am of the latter camp.  The difference in amount usually will not change my life otherwise I should not be buying the car (or whatever it is) in the first place, but I think the price is a bit high.  I think it is okay to offer a (reasonably) lower price, I do not view it as a blood sport as some do. If the price is too high, as many have previously mentioned, the option is always to simply walk away. 

 

Robert

[Lahti35]

1 hour ago, Dr B said:

I always found this issue interesting. I know of some people who will "negotiate" to the bitter end, beating the seller to a pulp. To them, I think it is either a game or an obsession.

My grandfather had a special saying for these occasions... "If I was going to give it away, I'd give it to somebody I liked!"

 

I give these buyers the boot these days, It's not worth the hassle. 

[CarNucopia]

1 hour ago, Lahti35 said:

My grandfather had a special saying for these occasions... "If I was going to give it away, I'd give it to somebody I liked!"

 

I give these buyers the boot these days, It's not worth the hassle. 

When someone grinds me, I simply say "This probably isn't the right car for you". Bottom feeders go away and seriously interested parties, now considering the real possibility of no deal, get a new-found sense of fairness.

[joe_padavano]

Actually, I think pricing is becoming less regional. The interwebs and high-end auctions have everyone convinced that their ran-when-parked POS is worth a million bucks.

[plymouthcranbrook]

My late Father when looking to purchase anything from an individual as opposed to a retail establishment would absolutely not buy if he could not talk the seller down at least a minimum amount.  I saw him walk away from several deals over $10.  He was a hobo during most of the Depression and I guess it became hard wired in his brain.

[ramair]

7 hours ago, Dr B said:

YES!!!! Great idea. Please do. With all your professional experience, I would love to see your list. 

 

Robert

I am with Dr B Matt, would love to see the list, I am sure I will cringe at some of them as over the last 40 years I probably said some stupid things while trying to buy a car.  The beauty of reading it  alone, no one will see me blush

[1935Packard]

I've always understood the "I can only pay $, I have to pay for shipping" as just an excuse to offer less —as if an excuse were needed, which it isn't.  I mean, if I'm buying a car and I think a seller will accept less, I would be inclined to offer less no matter if the excuse is good or bad.  

[R Walling]

About a year ago, a buyer looked at my car for sale and later went onto the site where I had it advertised and made a statement,

" In my opinion I wouldn't give him even 1/2 of what he was asking."

 

 I think that he wanted to buy it, but he was bad mouthing it so that others don't make an offer for it.

 

 I had also told another buyer that the value of the car has nothing to do with the shipping cost.

 

 As for excuses for not paying the full price for it.  I once wanted to buy a fire hydrant to put alongside my dog's house,

 I told the seller, "sorry, my dog doesn't have that much money."😁

Edited February 24 by R Walling (see edit history)

[Dr B]

29 minutes ago, R Walling said:

"In my opinion I wouldn't give him even 1/2 of what he was asking."

You should have said "Great because I wouldn't sell it to you if you offered me twice what I'm asking!"

[arcticbuicks]

i have bought a lot of cars both local and long distance .......and sold a lot of cars mostly local and some long distance.......i was in orange county Ca and saw a original paint Lincoln mkiii for $850. i called and showed up just the seller was letting someone about to take it for a drive......i walked up and said heres $900......the other buyer was so angry and said $950......long story short .....$2500 and i stole the car at that price and drove home 2300 miles.........ive had people show up and whine that they came 4 hrs driving........and wanted it for less as they came so far......i said its a good price if you came 4 hrs .......

[Reynard]

I have sometimes left an older car in my driveway, uncovered and visible from the street for a period of time. I've been approached by passers by and asked what I wanted for it. Since they approached me and I was not actively selling the car, whether that was my ultimate intention or not, my reply is, "What do you offer?" That usually sets them back initially, but the come-back is usually a low-ball offer that almost makes me laugh.

Depending on how I perceive the person making the offer, my mood at that moment, and whether I really want to sell it in the first place, I have replied with, "Do you mean the whole car, or just the spare parts in the trunk?" That's followed by a longer pause and often the remark, "Oh, I was just passing by and thought I'd ask".

Can't say I've  ever sold a car to a drop-in lookie-loo.

 

For the next one, I think I'll quote a crazy high price when asked, and enjoy a different reaction.

[joe_padavano]

I frequently have people ask me at cruise nights if my car is for sale. I reply that everything has a price. I also know that they have no intention of paying anywhere close to what I have into it, nor do they even have a clue as to what it costs to put together a reliable running, driving car. I usually point out to them that the price they want to pay is likely a fraction of my investment, and my labor was free. That's when they walk away.

[1912Staver]

I sold one once to a drop in lookie- loo. Actually he was carefully searching the area for a Hudson pick up that a friend had told him about. But he saw my project 1953 Chevy convertible { a Canadian market 210 Deluxe, one of a handful built } and knocked on my door. It all caught me a bit off guard and I told him a price that I really did not think about long enough. Sold after about a 8 second look over. Been kicking myself ever since, I could never afford to buy another . Then about 4 years later he phoned to see if I wanted it back. About twice the price I had sold it for plus he had thrown much of the car away to build a street machine style car out of it , including the convertible frame. He was going to order up a aftermarket frame but never did. Needless to say I turned him down.

I don't know where it ended up.

 Never again will I sell a car without very careful consideration.

Edited February 24 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[jensenracing77]

This is a complicated topic because there are to many variations of why people buy old cars. If someone is looking for a common old car like a standard Cutlass, Camaro, or Mustang, they are all over the place all across the country. Typically can find a nice one local and the local market may be different than somewhere else in the country. If you are looking for a rare car or a very high end specialty then you had better be looking nation wide and that market is pretty consistent across the country because of what it is you are looking for. 

 

On another note, People like me, I have to consider every aspect of a car before buying it and that includes getting it home. I simply can not afford this hobby and only have so much money to play with. I have to consider the price, getting it home, what I need to put into it and what the final value will be. I enjoy restoring cars as much or more than driving the finished product so I have to get it at a price that I will not lose money when I am moving to the next project. If a car is worth it and I am safe to not loose money I don't try to talk someone down. If it is to high for me and been on the market for a good while and not moving, I will toss in all the cards to get it for the right price. Yes, I have even tossed in the "I have to get it home" factor a few times but I am also not buying from a dealer or professional. When the car has been on the market for a while it is because nobody wants it or it is over priced or both. That is when I move in and use anything that works and if it don't work I walk. 

 

There are so many aspects to this but all of it is fun. It would be more fun if I could keep all my cars and not have to sell them. 

[Ed Luddy]

Recently read an ad for a nice El Camino SS. "I will only deal with people showing respect, thank you" The seller was a very nice guy tired of all the B.S. that comes with listing a car privately on the internet. Was able to contact him with a few polite questions, didn't hear back. Checked the ad in the morning and it was deleted. So I figured it sold right away or he got frustrated. Got a text  from him an hour later stating that I was welcome to come look at it, and even though I wasn't the 1st response he appreciated manners. 

  When I did get there he showed me the list of emails received and how stupid most of them were. The ad also mentioned the price was FIRM, no lowballers, no negotiating an already attractive price,etc. 

  The car was much better than described with a good photo documentation of the restoration. My only question was how did he wish to be paid, cash, bank draft, or we meet at the bank and transfer funds.

[60FlatTop]

I like the old tale about how the vampire can't enter your house to suck the blood out of you unless you invite him in. I look at a car advertisement as an invitation.

 

Invite me over. I will buy everything.

 

One I like to remember is an Olds Toronado I went to buy. The husband had passed away and had been an AMC collector. The garage was cluttered with stuff.

 

I bought the car for the asking price. Then I offered to buy all the rest. "It will be gone Saturday and swept clean" I told her. She spoke with a fairly thick accent and thought my offer was how much I would charge her to clean the garage. She really perked up when she found out I wanted to give her more money.

 

When I finished she thanked me, amazed at how big her garage was. She said "You are so much like my husband."

I thought "Yeah. And I got his old dresser draw full of dirty books and magazines, too."

 

That was around the time collectors began to connect AMC with Chrysler. I sold ever piece. She probably would have paid to have it taken to the dump.

 

There are times when I respond to an ad just due to some eccentricity of it. Once there was an old Swap Sheet ad with 100 hub caps for sale. The seller said they had all been sold. They only left a couple of damaged ones. "I'd be interested in those!" Thinking anyone with 100 hub caps has to have other stuff. I was allowed to see the unwanted hub caps left behind. I also spent $1500 on Model A Ford parts and railroad lanterns.

After getting most of it I took an older friend back with me. He stood there for a couple minutes getting his bearings and said "I was here 20 years ago when this guy died!".

 

A bunch of literature from that went to Bob Johnson in Framingham right at the dawn of the Internet.