Battery Cables for 1928 Chrysler Model 72

[leomara]

Rather than looking for a NOS 6 volt cable for this application would it not be possible to buy a battery terminal and a 1 AWG battery cable and make the starter cable?  The ground cable as a copper strap or braided type from a Model A Ford being a 6 volt type should work.  

Edited December 14, 2023 by leomara
More information (see edit history)

[TerryB]

These guys could probably make what you need

 

https://brillman.com/shop/?fwp_product_category=products-a-battery-cables

[studeboy]

My local John Deere dealer carries them in various sizes in stock.

[Farmallregular]

I'd go with at least 2/0 rather than #1.  Any place that deals with over the road trucks will have or can make cables.  I've also used welding cable and crimp fittings (if you have an appropriate crimp tool) for things like 6 volt antique tractors.  Some people will also solder the terminals, although a properly done crimp shouldn't require anything else.

[dodge28]

The best cable to use is a 2 zero piece of welding  cable, Get the terminals from your from your local welding supplies.  Peel about half of an inch insulation, hold the terminal in vice and fill it half way with melted solder and slowly insert the cable in and keep the heat for about 3 minutes until  the solder penetrates the cable. You may add shrink tube.  

[dodge28]

Because the welding cable is pliable it can be used as a ground strap.

[Farmallregular]

1 hour ago, dodge28 said:

The best cable to use is a 2 zero piece of welding  cable, Get the terminals from your from your local welding supplies.  Peel about half of an inch insulation, hold the terminal in vice and fill it half way with melted solder and slowly insert the cable in and keep the heat for about 3 minutes until  the solder penetrates the cable. You may add shrink tube.  

 

1 hour ago, dodge28 said:

Because the welding cable is pliable it can be used as a ground strap.

Inserting a large cable into molten solder is a good way to end up with a cold joint, plus if you're going to solder the connection you need to make sure it's well fluxed (rosin, NOT acid flux).  General rule is that the connection should be mechanically secure before applying solder.

 

A welding supply house will have terminal lugs, but probably won't have the battery connectors, which is why you need to go to someone who deals with engines and starting  batteries

 

2-ought (also written as 2/0 or AWG 00) cable is difficult to solder without melting the insulation since there's so much thermal mass, plus having the solder flow up into the cable can result in a brittle joint that's subject to cracking.  I know a lot of people successfully solder big battery cables, but there's a reason most automotive connections are crimped and not soldered.

 

Adding heat shrink over the connection is a good idea, just remember to slide it over the cable before you install the terminal.

 

There's no reason for a "ground" connection to be any more flexible than the hot side connection...an easily bendable cable or braid will make connection easier if the ground connection point is close enough to the battery that a heavy cable doesn't want to bend.

 

Keith

[pre1939chrysler]

Don't  forget armor cable.

[Stude Light]

If you want a period correct look then 1/0 or 2/0 cloth wrapped cable from Rhode Island Wiring. The also have the correct positive and negative (yes, two sizes) solder-on terminal clamps. I have had no issues using a little soldering flux (like you use for copper pipes) and heating the unit as an assembly until get good solder flow. There is a little melt back of the insulation (maybe 1/8" - 1/4") and you do end up with a little solder down the stranded wire so it may not flex that first inch. I use a slight wrap of cloth electrical tape to finish the look. 
 

A few have commented below about rosin core vs acid flux. If you run marginal heat the joint will retain some of the aggressive flux and may lead to corrosion down the road. I heat the joint up hot, fill it full of solder and boil out any residual flux. My problem with rosin core on a large joint like this is the temperature has to be in a certain range to get the entire joint melted without burning the flux which then causes poor connection.

Edited December 21, 2023 by Stude Light (see edit history)

[dodge28]

Hold the terminal in a vice at the lowest point, use rosin core wire solder,  fill the terminal  halfway and slowly insert the the cable . Keep the heat on for about 3 minutes. When the cable is first inserted you will see the solder will come to the top and attempt to flow over. Keep up the torch flame on the copper terminal and watch the molten solder slowly sinking down. At that point the molten solder is penetrating the strands. Hold the cable in position until the solder cools. 

[Bloo]

Dodge28 has the right idea. Use rosin core or other electronic solder. Don't use plumbing flux. Yes plumbing flux works well and makes the job super easy because it is so active, but it does *not* make good long lasting electrical connections. Acid core solder and acid (plumbing) flux is the biggest no-no in electronics, and has been since the late 1920s.

 

You do need to keep any flame far away from rosin flux. Rosin burns, and when it burns, it won't do it's job. I like @dodge28's idea of putting the solder down in the hole. Then just don't let the flame get in there. Professional materials to do this consist of pellets made of electronic solder that drop in the hole.

 

The only reason I can think of to crimp is if you are really cheap or in a hurry. Years ago Ford made a good example of this. Ford, on 12 volt cars, used to use spindly little cables that looked ridiculous. I used to make fun of them until one time I replaced some originals and checked the voltage drop before and after. The new cables that had bigger copper wire inside and looked 3 times bigger due to thicker insulation performed worse. A closer look revealed the spindly little original Ford cables were soldered. The new cables, despite having bigger wire were more resistive. The new ones would have deteriorated over time and got even worse because as a cable ages, each strand of wire tarnishes and the resistance in a crimp increases. Current has to travel through several layers of tarnish to get to the center strands. Solder on the other hand alloys itself to the terminal and to every strand. There should be no deterioration over time. Now to be fair, the new cables weren't *that* much worse, but they were measurably worse and they were brand new. I put the old cables back on.

 

Anyone who doesn't believe this is welcome to measure it. Measure with a multimeter from one end of the battery cable to the other end, disable the ignition and crank the starter. The reading should be zero, and it would be in a perfect world if we had room temperature superconductors. In the real world, there is always loss. You are measuring loss, so lower is better.

 

At the end of the day it doesn't matter how the ends are attached, all that really matters is getting the loss as low as you possibly can. Bigger wire helps. So does soldering.

 

Edited December 17, 2023 by Bloo (see edit history)

[3macboys]

1 hour ago, Bloo said:

Bigger wire helps. So does soldering.

Though for a solar system at our cottage, the concept is the same.  For those who hate the cost of car batteries these ones are twice the price and if I recall correctly about 65 lbs.  

[31 LaSalle]

8 hours ago, Bloo said:

Dodge28 has the right idea. Use rosin core or other electronic solder. Don't use plumbing flux. Yes plumbing flux works well and makes the job super easy because it is so active, but it does *not* make good long lasting electrical connections. Acid core solder and acid (plumbing) flux is the biggest no-no in electronics, and has been since the late 1920s.

 

You do need to keep any flame far away from rosin flux. Rosin burns, and when it burns, it won't do it's job. I like @dodge28's idea of putting the solder down in the hole. Then just don't let the flame get in there. Professional materials to do this consist of pellets made of electronic solder that drop in the hole.

 

The only reason I can think of to crimp is if you are really cheap or in a hurry. Years ago Ford made a good example of this. Ford, on 12 volt cars, used to use spindly little cables that looked ridiculous. I used to make fun of them until one time I replaced some originals and checked the voltage drop before and after. The new cables that had bigger copper wire inside and looked 3 times bigger due to thicker insulation performed worse. A closer look revealed the spindly little original Ford cables were soldered. The new cables, despite having bigger wire were more resistive. The new ones would have deteriorated over time and got even worse because as a cable ages, each strand of wire tarnishes and the resistance in a crimp increases. Current has to travel through several layers of tarnish to get to the center strands. Solder on the other hand alloys itself to the terminal and to every strand. There should be no deterioration over time. Now to be fair, the new cables weren't *that* much worse, but they were measurably worse and they were brand new. I put the old cables back on.

 

Anyone who doesn't believe this is welcome to measure it. Measure with a multimeter from one end of the battery cable to the other end, disable the ignition and crank the starter. The reading should be zero, and it would be in a perfect world if we had room temperature superconductors. In the real world, there is always loss. You are measuring loss, so lower is better.

 

At the end of the day it doesn't matter how the ends are attached, all that really matters is getting the loss as low as you possibly can. Bigger wire helps. So does soldering.

 

Good tip on the soldering I was going to use pluming solder  Glad I read your post  Thanks

[kings32]

Brilliam has the solder plugs you in  put in with rosin in it easy way to do it 

[BlueDevil]

Brillman has the original Chrysler engineering specs for those cables, including the armored portion and they are quick. Ask for John. My 75 cable will be here next week. I will post a report.

[PFitz]

Another vote for Rhode Island Wire Service. They can make you cables with the correct size, braided cloth covering, and terminals,  just like the originals, or sell you the supplies to do it yourself.  

 

Rhode Island Wiring Service Inc. (riwire.com)

 

Paul

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

The Brillman Company.  I just bought a set of plug wires. If their cables are as good, they will be great.

 

  Ben

[Lahti35]

On 12/14/2023 at 10:56 AM, TerryB said:

These guys could probably make what you need

 

https://brillman.com/shop/?fwp_product_category=products-a-battery-cables

Brillman made me a cable for my old Nash. Looked period correct with cloth cover and was heavy 2/0 welding cable. I would recommend them any day. Don't go cheap here, you'll be glad you got the good stuff when you roll that starter over.

[BlueDevil]

RI Wiring doesn't list those cables for Model 75's

[PFitz]

23 minutes ago, BlueDevil said:

RI Wiring doesn't list those cables for Model 75's

They can still make battery cables to whatever is needed that look exactly like original cables. 

 

Whenever I install hidden battery cutoff switches for a customer, they've made custom length cables for me with just measurements that I gave them over the phone. In 40 years dealing with them they've always done it exactly as I needed. 

 

Paul

[dodge28]

Do it once and do it right or do it right and do it once.

[BlueDevil]

Here is what I got. Very pleased.

[dodge28]

Nice.