Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 10 hours ago, old-tank said: Nothing abnormal on the backsides. My guess is these were no brand economy bearings that gave up after 20 years and 120K miles. The rest of the engine appears to be good for another 100K miles. Probably a mile or two more than it did originally. Ben 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 On 1/3/2024 at 9:14 PM, Barney Eaton said: He is a retired veterinarian..... I think he can handle fixing an old Buick engine without issue. That would probably depend on if he worked with large farm animals or small pets. The county 30 miles south of me has a greater population of dairy cattle than people. A vet from their wouldn't think twice about handling a Lamborghini. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTX5467 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 (edited) FWIW, considering that @old-tank built that engine to start with, discovering that not all machine shops knew now to correctly build a Buick NailHead. Then helping a younger Mike MIddleton build the engine in his (similarly award-winning) '55 Buick with great results, I highly suspect that in his advancing years, @old-tank is perfectly-versed in the Buick NailHead in his '55 Buick. He is also a "small animal mechanic", by his own admission, which I do not feel is significant in this discussion. In fact, after reading @old-tank's postings about helping Mike get his car built (In this forum on an earlier server), passing information in the process, our North Texas Chapter, BCA awarded him a plaque acknowledging the "older to younger" generational knowledge transfer, at a South Central Regional fall meet. back then. I was the one who decided such a plaque was in order and then presented it myself. At the time, I explained the significance of the plaque to all that were in attendance at the awards ceremony, with loud applause. Respectfully, NTX5467 Edited January 5 by NTX5467 (see edit history) 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted January 6 Author Share Posted January 6 Thanks for reminding me...that was my greatest honor. LINK 20years! Good review to build another engine. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 (edited) @NTX5467 Machine shops building a nailhead as if it was a small block Chevy. Facts. Been there. Failed hard valve seats unnecessarily installed. Rocker shafts upsidedown, etc. @old-tank helped me sort and figure out two different length push rods and lifters that changed after 55. After talking on the phone we surmised if the geometry of the push rods and lifters are correct the nailhead will run. My 54 264 is running rods and lifters that are completely different than what was used during years 54 and 55. New parts were not matching in length. We figured it. Edited January 6 by avgwarhawk (see edit history) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NailheadBob Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 23 hours ago, old-tank said: Thanks for reminding me...that was my greatest honor. LINK 20years! Good review to build another engine. @NTX5467 thanks for your story on old-tank award, couldn’t have gone to a better guy @old-tank thanks for the link to connect the story behind your award Great stuff here Bob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted January 7 Author Share Posted January 7 (edited) I could not find a suitable valve spring removal tool locally and I didn't want to buy online without looking at it so I made one. Template was made from a coat hanger wire and transferred to some strap steel and map gas torch and a Little grunt work it seems to work fine. I did not make the handle long enough so a crescent wrench works to give me more leverage. They used rocker shaft was used also. This is the reason that I made the valve spring compressor tool. The back of the intake valves in the area around it was just plugged up with hard carbon. Edited January 7 by old-tank (see edit history) 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTX5467 Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 (edited) Neat tool! Looks like a good candidate for some bronze heli-coil guide inserts and high-quailty valve stem oil seals. Spark plugs look good. Thanks for the update! NTX5467 Edited January 7 by NTX5467 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NailheadBob Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 Great homemade tool, if it’s for sale when your done I would like to purchase it, In the future a decarbonizing maintenance service would be in order, Take note “Nailhead” owners Great job old-tank Bob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted January 7 Author Share Posted January 7 5 hours ago, NTX5467 said: Neat tool! Looks like a good candidate for some bronze heli-coil guide inserts and high-quailty valve stem oil seals. Spark plugs look good. Thanks for the update! NTX5467 The guides and seals are tight however all of the intake tracts are covered with hard varnish that transitions to the hard carbon close to the combustion chamber. This is due to percolation from the carburetor after I shut down after a hot run. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 A bottle of Techron in the tank may keep these clean of carbon. The newer direct injection engines have buildup like this. The dealerships use Techron to clean up the intake valves. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTX5467 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 According to one online mechanic, a particular Gumout additive has "PEA" at the highest concentration, which is what is in the Shell gasolines, to keep things clean (or clean things up). I put some in my 290K mile 2005 Impala and it acted better afterward. FWIW Somebody stated that Techron has this same additive, but every time I have used Techron over the past decades, no improvements. There is also a YouTube channel for "Chris Fix" where he uses a borescope to look at how well various fuel additives clean out carbon from the piston crowns. Quite informative. Enjoy! NTX5467 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted January 8 Author Share Posted January 8 No additive will fix my issue... and probably won't prevent. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 (edited) Do you have a phenolic insulator between the carburetor and the manifold? Maybe that would help to keep the heat from getting to the fuel bowl as quickly... Edited January 8 by EmTee typo (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 I am curious. How many of the intake valves we coked up like this and if not all, which ones? I am thinking about the 20 years and 120,000 miles, 6,000 miles per year. I have a firm rule about starting my cars. Except in extreme instances I drive them on a ten mile loop around town to fully heat all the fluids and drive off any contaminates such as condensation or from atmosphere or combustion and excess fuel from the cold start. It is like that Samurai sword thing where you don't draw it unless you are going to use it. I won't move my car over one parking space without the full warm up. A ritual based on a few facts. Your valve or valves have as much crud on them as a 1960s AMOCO unleaded gas commercial. I am wondering how many times you may have driven a short distance with mildly fuel diluted oil due to a fuel bowl worth of percolated gas seeped down the cylinders. It is a possibility. I am looking at the arms on my chair as I make this armchair speculation. A fresh rebuild under the same conditions would probably perform as well but it is a sign something is not right. One more point. When you restored the engine was the 4GC carburetor one that had been in regular use or one that had set dry for a long time. I have suspicions that old dry carbs can corrode and develop porosity between fuel chambers and passages adjacent to vacuum passages that cause fuel to be in unexpected places. I have replaced a couple of carbs that had been rebuilt with old crusty bodies with fresher ones. Lots to think about there. Too bad you are not closer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted January 8 Author Share Posted January 8 3 hours ago, EmTee said: Do you have a phenolic insulator between the carburetor and the manifold? Maybe that would help to keep the heat from getting to the fuel bowl as quickly... 1 hour ago, 60FlatTop said: I am curious. How many of the intake valves we coked up like this and if not all, which ones? I am thinking about the 20 years and 120,000 miles, 6,000 miles per year. I have a firm rule about starting my cars. Except in extreme instances I drive them on a ten mile loop around town to fully heat all the fluids and drive off any contaminates such as condensation or from atmosphere or combustion and excess fuel from the cold start. It is like that Samurai sword thing where you don't draw it unless you are going to use it. I won't move my car over one parking space without the full warm up. A ritual based on a few facts. Your valve or valves have as much crud on them as a 1960s AMOCO unleaded gas commercial. I am wondering how many times you may have driven a short distance with mildly fuel diluted oil due to a fuel bowl worth of percolated gas seeped down the cylinders. It is a possibility. I am looking at the arms on my chair as I make this armchair speculation. A fresh rebuild under the same conditions would probably perform as well but it is a sign something is not right. One more point. When you restored the engine was the 4GC carburetor one that had been in regular use or one that had set dry for a long time. I have suspicions that old dry carbs can corrode and develop porosity between fuel chambers and passages adjacent to vacuum passages that cause fuel to be in unexpected places. I have replaced a couple of carbs that had been rebuilt with old crusty bodies with fresher ones. Lots to think about there. Too bad you are not closer. The carburetor is a Carter wcfb and there's no way to stop the percolation on that model. I have not used a spacer but I did block off the all the exhaust crossover under the carburetor at the cylinder heads. All the intake valves are like that and this is what you see after a 4250 mi trip from Central Texas to Spokane Washington and back. I use mostly top tier fuels but not the same brand. Because of my frugal nature I have resisted fuel injection but that may be the next thing. I finally determined that the main bearings are 0.020 under size and those are ordered and I'll try to roll them in without removing the Pistons. 3 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted January 13 Author Share Posted January 13 The cylinder heads are cleaned up and ready to install. I lapped the intake valves just to verify the sealing surfaces. I left the exhaust valves alone since solvent in the back side did not leak. I got new main bearings rolled in. There were a few really bad old ones. I can't believe I had any oil pressure at all. All of the really bad ones were in the block side. The rear main bearings had some chips missing on the thrust side otherwise they looked good. Waiting on gaskets and for the cold weather to pass. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC-car-guy Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 You make it seem easy! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEarl Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 1 hour ago, NC-car-guy said: You make it seem easy! Tha's an understatement if ever. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 (edited) Willie successfully designed the mysterious "J5" tool described in the repair manual. Edited January 14 by avgwarhawk (see edit history) 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 On 1/1/2024 at 10:41 AM, old-tank said: 20 years ago I had to have the crank ground to fit the available bearings... and it seems that the supply is no better now. 15 hours ago, old-tank said: I got new main bearings rolled in. What size do you have - .020 under? Crankshaft journals all look good? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted January 14 Author Share Posted January 14 46 minutes ago, EmTee said: What size do you have - .020 under? Crankshaft journals all look good? 0.020 under from Terrell machine. Generic bearings in a plain white box. The journals still had a mirror finish. 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTX5467 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Dang! I keep forgetting Terrell is around. Probably about an hour's drive from me. Thanks for the update, NTX5467 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NailheadBob Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 On 1/14/2024 at 9:00 AM, old-tank said: 0.020 under from Terrell machine. Generic bearings in a plain white box. The journals still had a mirror finish. I think my connecting rod and main bearings were also in a plain white box from Terrell machine. Bob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudbone Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 (edited) On 1/13/2024 at 6:57 PM, MrEarl said: Tha's an understatement if ever. Did you guys forget that Willie was a Cat mechanic! Edited January 20 by Mudbone (see edit history) 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted January 31 Author Share Posted January 31 January weather has slowed me down but not as much as all the cleaning scraping gaskets wire wheeling and sanding gasket surfaces. Assembly is easy if you have all clean fresh parts from the machine shop and new parts. I may be able to drop it in if I can find all my friends that are hiding. I found something that I never noticed before. There are engine numbers stamped into the area where the oil filter assembly attaches to the block. Same number but missing the suffix at designates the series number that was originally used. 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 That number is stamped under the water pump on the Straight Eight. If you were closer I would help. Ben 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
195354 Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 Willie you need a roloc bristle disc. These are a great aid in cleaning no wires flying. With a bit of care they should not remove anything other than the gaskets and carbon. They are in a few colors to ID the grit. I use the green ones speeds things up. Steve 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NailheadBob Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 (edited) I also like the roloc discs and the mini angled air tool that is used with it Bob Edited February 1 by NailheadBob (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted February 1 Author Share Posted February 1 So, now you tell me when I am finished! Actually I have some effective power tools, but cannot use on the block like the pan mounting surface and the head gasket mounting surfaces. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTX5467 Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 When the Roioc abrasive items came out, our techs "siezed upon them" to replace the Scotchbrite discs they had been using. STILL had to carefully protect the surfaces from "abrasive debris", though. Later, GM came out with a TSB saying not to use those things, due to the debris issue. BTAIM They obviously look good and work well, just be sure to protect everything from their flying abrasive debris to prevent damage to bearing surfaces and other internal engine parts. Later, we started buying a few "washing machines" which were tall enough to accommodate a block and two cyl heads (with some small parts in a wire box) too. Quite an in-house advance as most of the local machine shops (which had cleaning vats) had closed. Not sure what they cost, but they worked well. NTX5467 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted February 3 Author Share Posted February 3 Everybody has their favorite method of keeping the valve lifters storted correctly. This old refrigerator had 16 spots for eggs and worked just right. Now I can plug it back in and stock it with beer. The push rods had been rubbing on the block and I think I corrected that problem. Now I noticed that the valve spring is crowding the hole on that one head. Notice also that the alignment dowel for that one head is missing actually in two places. Always something to slow me down...had to make some out of 5/16 rod. Filled it with oil and ran the drill clockwise until I had oil pressure and that is very good at 40 lb. And oil is flowing where it should. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 So, the patient has a pulse! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTX5467 Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 Great progress! Thanks for the update, NTX5467 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank DuVal Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 On 2/2/2024 at 11:57 PM, NTX5467 said: When the Roioc abrasive items came out ??? You mean Roloc? And since they came in Scotchbrite form, are you saying the plastic finger style? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTX5467 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted February 10 Author Share Posted February 10 It's in. (It's the engine I'm talking about). 7 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted February 12 Author Share Posted February 12 I was actually able to get into the engine compartment on top of the engine to install the upper bell housing bolts... And remarkably I was able to get back out. 4 1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine Gun Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 On 2/9/2024 at 8:30 PM, old-tank said: It's in. It's sad when the announcement is necessary, isn't it? 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 9 hours ago, old-tank said: I was actually able to get into the engine compartment on top of the engine to install the upper bell housing bolts... Good for you! I would have dropped one of those bolts at least once... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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