Help Needed to Identify This Bentley

[tummyfish943]

I believe this is a 1931 based upon the Chassis tag that has "B-78-JD".  It is a convertible.  Is there any articles or information you can link to this thread so I can read more about this car and it's features?  

 

Thanks.

Edited August 17, 2023 by tummyfish943 (see edit history)

[hursst]

Contact the Rolls Royce Foundation- Contact Us - Rolls-Royce Foundation (rollsroycefoundation.org)  They can probably assist you.

 

If you are near or will be near Mechanicsburg, PA, they have their HQ there and a fantastic museum as well.

[mikewest]

It looks like a staged photo to me.... 

[alsancle]

I forget how much the chassis reports are these days. You may need to be a member.

 

also, you need to contact the RREC not the American club.

 

And yes, staged photo.

[tummyfish943]

Thanks for the info.  This absolutely IS NOT a staged photo.  Owner is 80 YO and wants it out of his garage.  I pulled 2 garden hoses and a few tarps off the car to take the photo.  

[keiser31]

16 hours ago, mikewest said:

It looks like a staged photo to me.... 

Why do you think that? I have seen hundreds of cars in the same settings.

Edited August 18, 2023 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[mikewest]

5 hours ago, tummyfish943 said:

Thanks for the info.  This absolutely IS NOT a staged photo.  Owner is 80 YO and wants it out of his garage.  I pulled 2 garden hoses and a few tarps off the car to take the photo.  

OK , My mistake . What is the price, do you know?? 

[tummyfish943]

The owner didn't give me a price.  He didn't even know what year it was until I found it on the Chassis tag.  He has no title.  I told him I would do some research to find out what it is first.  Then, we can determine a price.  It doesn't run.  I was there to look at a 1970 Shelby GT350 convertible.  His wife said she wants the Bentley gone ASAP and thought about scrapping it.  

[rocketraider]

There are a lot of people who would happily give her scrap metal price for it, if she's fool enough to do that.

 

A prewar Bentley with Mulliner coachwork, sold for scrap metal value. These are not war years...

[pmhowe]

This is a 4 ¼ L Derby Bentley. It was originally sold to William K. Laughlin in the USA in March, 1937. (Stanley Sedgewick, “All the Pre-War Bentleys - As New”).  You can distinguish the 4.25 L models from the earlier 3.5 L models by the length of the flash suppressor (looks like a crude air cleaner on top of the engine). The 3.5 L models had a shorter tube.

 

Phil

[mikewest]

 Tell me the address where it is and a phone # , Ill get in my truck and buy it this week.  I need a project. Mike 585 738 1541

[pmhowe]

A not-badly-molested Derby drophead coupe is a rare find. It should not be considered a potential scrap heap. I second Hursst's recommendation: The owner should contact the RR Foundation and get some help in assessing its value. 

 

While I mentioned "not-badly-molested" above, I am appalled that someone would have drilled holes in the Bentley's cast aluminum bulkhead to provide a place for ground wires. 

[drwatson]

Surely a desirable find.  Can you state the general area where it's garaged?  

[tummyfish943]

On 8/20/2023 at 12:36 PM, pmhowe said:

This is a 4 ¼ L Derby Bentley. It was originally sold to William K. Laughlin in the USA in March, 1937. (Stanley Sedgewick, “All the Pre-War Bentleys - As New”).  You can distinguish the 4.25 L models from the earlier 3.5 L models by the length of the flash suppressor (looks like a crude air cleaner on top of the engine). The 3.5 L models had a shorter tube.

 

Phil

Thanks for the detailed answer.  The chassis tag has 1931 stamped on it, but derby Bentleys started in 1933 I think.  Why would this derby have a chassis dated earlier?  
 

I have tried calling the RR Foundation twice, but nobody is returning my calls.  
 

This Bentley has a bump out in the trunk lid for a spare tire.  
 

The owners friend owed him money and couldn’t pay him back, so he gave him the Bentley instead of $.  The owner seemed like he knows very little about the car and parked it after taking possession. 

Edited August 22, 2023 by tummyfish943 (see edit history)

[alsancle]

Send an email to this address:  businesssupport@rrec.org.uk   and ask about the obtaining the certification folder on the chassis number.

 

I have found them to be very responsive.

[drwatson]

1 hour ago, tummyfish943 said:

 The chassis tag has 1931 stamped on it, but derby Bentleys started in 1933 I think.  Why would this derby have a chassis dated dated earlier?  

Chassis tag says "Bentley Motors 1931 Ltd".  1931 was the year Rolls Royce acquired Bentley and likely not the build date for the car.

[pmhowe]

As drwatson says, the date on the chassis plate is part of the name of the company, not the date of manufacture.  The original Bentley Motors, Ltd. entered receivership in 1931. Rolls Royce ended up buying the assets. Rolls Royce formed a private subsidiary company called “Bentley Motors (1931) Ltd." to capitalize on the name and goodwill associated with the old company.  Note that the address of the old Bentley Motors, 16 Conduit St, London was also retained, even though the car chassis were manufactured in Derby.

 

There are numerous good books detailing the history of Bentley cars and the takeover by Rolls Royce. One of the best is “Bentley, Cricklewood to Crewe” by Michael Frostick.

Edited August 22, 2023 by pmhowe
spelling error (see edit history)

[tummyfish943]

Thanks, that makes more sense now.  I assumed a year on a chassis tag would identify the model year of the vehicle.  

 

I finally got through to RR Foundation, and they told me a lot about the car.  It is actually a 1937 4.25 litre Derby Drophead Coupe, as mentioned above.  They also said it is quite rare because only 100 of the "JD" series were produced.  

[rocketraider]

Did that group give any estimation of value?

[alsancle]

1 hour ago, rocketraider said:

Did that group give any estimation of value?

I would give an estimate after I saw more pictures. Given the lack of a title, and non-running condition it’s worth less than you would think.

[Gunsmoke]

Great looking car and story. But sounds like current possessor may not have title? Someone "gave it to him in lieu of a debt" raises all sorts of questions of title. Hopefully some sort of legal "transfer of ownership" document exists to confirm title and that may say exactly what car was registered as. I assume state titling office can provide some paper on it's most recent registration, such as owner, serial#, when last licensed and by whom. Otherwise, could take some time and expense to obtain clear title.

[drwatson]

No clear Title? If you Google the question there are avenues to get one; DMV requirements vary State to State.

Not running? I tend to suspect simple basics until I know. Do points need a cleaning? Does engine turn? etc. etc.

Per owner (if he is the owner): "wife said she wants the Bentley gone ASAP and thought about scrapping it." 

With its rarity and appearance, it seems the side issues are worth dealing with. It's a winner!

 

 

[LI_BENTLEY]

The 1931 is part of the name of the firm that manufacturer the auto  "Bentley Motors 1931 Ltd."  RR started this co. after acquiring Bentley in 1931 and started producing cars again in 1933.

[arcticbuicks]

sell it to me for triple scrap price  lol.......i will get a Canada title for it in 13.5 minutes .....for $15

[mikewest]

I think Tummyfish  is looking for pen pals..   Ive seen it a scores of times.. A lot of yadda yadda, no bacon...smile  

 

Edited August 23, 2023 by mikewest (see edit history)

[alsancle]

30 minutes ago, mikewest said:

I think Tummyfish  is looking for pen pals..   Ive seen it a scores of times.. A lot of yadda yadda, no bacon...smile  

 

 

He did post some pictures although not very good ones.  So, not as bad as the typical flipper with vague questions that all boil down to how much money can I make in the next 5 days?

[nick8086]

Here is a new one. Just took this pic 2 weeks ago..

[tummyfish943]

1 hour ago, mikewest said:

I think Tummyfish  is looking for pen pals..   Ive seen it a scores of times.. A lot of yadda yadda, no bacon...smile  

 

 MikeWest - you are wrong, and an ass!  

[alsancle]

9 hours ago, tummyfish943 said:

 MikeWest - you are wrong, and an ass!  

 

In fairness to Mike,  we get a lot of flippers on here who just exercise everybody.   You can prove him wrong by posting better pictures and more details.    There is nothing wrong or illegal about flipping but they are super annoying.   And I apologize in advance if that is not what you are trying to do.

[JV Puleo]

Potentially a nice car but as Alsancle says, not running it's worth less than you'd think. I don't think of them as difficult to work on but it's not for everyone if their background is bread-and-butter American cars. If you can't do it yourself finding someone who can sort it will be a serious and expensive challenge.The title issue makes it difficult for people who live in title states. Not all states require a title for an antique car (mine doesn't) but it would be easier to sell if it had one. Chances are it was never registered either which only complicates the issue.

 

I notice the OP doesn't even tell us where it is...

[wayne sheldon]

It is always tough being "the new kid". Whether one is in middle school, or collecting well earned social security? Trying to get that "feel" for how things are can be very difficult. Some people handle that sort of stress better than do others.

 

Pure speculation here. The OP may be a bit paranoid. Fearing that a bunch of us are lurking in the shadows, waiting for a clue, to swoop in and beat him out of the deal of the year!

While there are quite a few people here that routinely buy and sell cars? Most of us here don't play in those puddles. Most of us don't have enough cash on hand to simply jump on something that happens by. Most of the regulars here are too decent to jump quickly and beat out someone asking basic questions. And the truth is, there are flippers reading these pages, that might jump on something if an opportunity did present itself. 

And quite frankly, most of the collectors here that have that kind of money? They have so many opportunities to buy better cars, in better condition, or far more desirable, that a cousin of a Rolls Royce or not, they aren't going to give this car a second look!

The OP has been given some good advice. He should consider it and decide if he is ready to commit to something that could in fact be worth much less than he may think it is? Or be more forthcoming with details that will affect the real value and so to make a more informed decision.

I have never had the kind of money to be able to play with cars quite like this. I don't know what this car is really worth in today's market. I do know that cars with too many unknown factors are becoming much harder to find buyers for. Certainly, it is worth considerably more than scrap value. However, maybe not so much as one might expect. It certainly has historic value, and is nice enough to likely be desirable to a hobby restorer. It may already be at that point where the cost of a professional restoration would exceed the cars sellable value when finished.

It should go to someone with the desire and at least some means to restore this treasure to the road where it belongs.

Whether the OP is that person of not? Only he can decide. If he decides he isn't the one to restore it? He can risk a low offer to flip it and hope? (I have seen dozens of flippers lose their proverbial shirts because they didn't understand the markets they were playing with!) Or he may be choose to be a nice guy and try to facilitate a sale to help out someone he knows? That could be done through these forums.

 

The truth is, that "collector cars" are a calling! A person "feels them" in their heart and their soul. It is something that cannot really be explained. Whether most people "get it" or not, HISTORY is very important to everybody on the planet! It is where we came from, it is what we are! Our antique automobiles are "touchstones" that help us connect to our pasts. 

[Gunsmoke]

tummyfish 943, I hope you are able to find what you need to know to advise the owner of this rare car on how it might be described and maybe sold. Wayne Sheldon's note above I think nicely covers the feeling most non-judgmental folks on here have, and you are encouraged to ignore the naysayers. While some of them may speak from bad previous experiences, they do need to be more considerate. I read your request as genuine. From my experience, as Wayne says, a car like this can mean a lot or a little to people, depending on where their interests, experience and talent lies. A wire wheeled Bentley roadster from the 30's is a wonderful find, and style and rarity alone makes it highly desirable to many (to just own, to drive, to rebuild, to flip, etc). Depending on where you are, try contacting a local car club, preferably a British Touring Car Club, and you will quickly find a local source of knowledge, perhaps some interest in the car as well as a name of a reliable and informed car appraiser who could give you a value range. I hope your old friend has the time and patience to ensure this car lands in the right hands. 

[californiamilleghia]

Interesting find , I think if it can be made a driver thats where I would leave it , hopefully it is not too rusty , 

 

Post some more pictures when you drag it out

 

 

 

 

[AHa]

If the wife is threatening to sale at scrap price, ask the owner what it would take to buy it. It's a shame someone on here couldn't give a base price for a car such as this. I would think 7-9 thousand would be a good price for the car. There are a lot of unknowns but a 30s model Bentley roadster should be worth that day in and day out. The car looks to be in good condition from what I see. The motor may be stuck but how hard would it be to get it loose. I suspect the transmission, drive shaft and rear end are fine.

 

I suspect as has been stated, the op is scared of being beat out by someone more experienced swooping in and buying the car out from under him. Perhaps he needs to stick with his original interest of the Shelby. It is likely he knows more about the value of that car. The owner may be holding out on the Shelby until he sales the Bentley, The Shelby will be a much easier sale.

[alsancle]

Did I miss the part where he said he was trying to help the elderly widow?