What did executives of smaller car companies ride to work in?

[Bryan G]

I've thought of this from time to time and thought I'd pose the question. For instance, did AMC have Ambassador limos? What about when the Matador/Ambassador went away? What were they using in the 80s? What did Iacocca ride in prior to the creation of the K-car based executive limo? Willys in the 40s, Kaiser in the 50s...Studebaker in the 60s? Did they throw away their pride and buy a Cadillac/Lincoln? Inquiring minds want to know...bonus points for photos!

[8E45E]

Sherwood Egbert, President of Studebaker was often chauffeured in a Mercedes Benz.  Other times, he drove an Avanti to and from his home at the Proving Ground at 160 mph!!

 

Craig

[Phillip Cole]

I have no idea what AMC execs. rode in, but late in production there were Abassador limos like these. It was a limited promo thru local dealers. Come take a chauffeured ride at your local dealership. 

My guess for Lee would be a Continental Mark III.

[8E45E]

Albert Russel Erskine in the 1920's:  Colorizing old photos esp Studebaker some samples - Studebaker Drivers Club Forum

 

Craig

[Rusty_OToole]

You might be surprised. In the thirties GM president Alfred Sloan drove a stock Buick sedan. He could have had a custom built Cadillac but preferred to be inconspicuous. Henry Ford often drove a model T. I can't think of any auto executives who used a chauffeured limousine, they preferred to drive themselves. You would expect them to drive their company's top model but that was not always the case. Many of them changed cars frequently and drove competitive makes for comparison.

[Ed Luddy]

12 hours ago, Phillip Cole said:

I have no idea what AMC execs. rode in, but late in production there were Abassador limos like these. It was a limited promo thru local dealers. Come take a chauffeured ride at your local dealership. 

My guess for Lee would be a Continental Mark III.

Always thought the Ambassador should have a limo stretch to live up to it's name!

[58L-Y8]

When Jim Nance became president of Packard, he required a random car from that day's production be place in the executive garage for him to drive home that evening for evaluation.  In the morning. there was a list of items found deficient to be corrected.   This practice informed his meetings with production personnel to discuss quality control improvements for action.  Certainly, this production evaluation was practiced by other auto industry executives as well.

[prewarnut]

   In the Locomobile section from last year I showed that Andrew Riker Jr. (former President) in 1926 had two Locomobiles, a lesser car (likely for staff or routine use) and his son had a Flint in 1926 per the CT DOT records. As one Loco was a 1917 model I assume he drove Locomobiles during most or all of his tenure.

   When W.C. Durant took over his son supposedly mangaged Locomobile and owned a model 90 which sold last year - although I couldn't verify records but potentially they may exist.

   Of course limousines in the '20s were of a different connotation than a stretched car from the late '40s and onwards.

[John_S_in_Penna]

 A couple of historical notes related to car companies--these are

interesting accounts directly from retired executive Irenee du Pont Jr.:

 

Irenee du Pont of Delaware was President of the Dupont Company.

     His family also had a controlling interest in General Motors at the

     time, since they saved the company when Billy Durant had problems.

     He never liked limousines and in the 1920's had a succession of

     production Cadillacs.

Irenee du Pont Jr. (his son) was Executive V. P. of Dupont.  I knew him

     quite well.  He was modest and drove modest cars.  In 1956 he bought a 

     Volkswagen Beetle and drove it as his regular car for 24 years.

     Then, in 1980, he succeeded it with a Chevrolet Chevette, which

     was his regular car for the next 19 years.

 

So it's understandable that some executives didn't have ostentatious cars!

[Jim Bollman]

Powel Crosley had a Duesenberg as his personal car but did use one of his cars for around town. His Dusey still exists, it changed hands about 10 years ago at an auction.

[Pfeil]

The question was what they drive and not what they were driven in. So,

<This is a special 1973 Z and although Mr.K drove other Z cars like a 74 260 2+2,

this car was a personal favorite. His loyal friend and mine-his secretary received the car when he retired and went back to Japan.

[Pfeil]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

<The son's car. The grandsons

 

 

and again<He's the kid on the left in the picture above.

He also designed my favorite Porsche before he designed the one he's sitting on. See below.

 

 

 

Edited June 22, 2023 by Pfeil (see edit history)

[Studemax]

I remember the cover of AutoWeek when Lee Iacocca was driving a K-car he'd had turned into a convertible.

[Rusty_OToole]

I recall that Bob Lutz when he was head of Chrysler, had his experimental engineers build him a turbocharged 4 cylinder Dodge Daytona for Autobahn cruising. It went like a bat out of hell and the only non Chrysler part was a billet crankshaft necessary to stand the hellacious boost. Everything else was Chrysler engineering.

 

Tried to look up some specs on the net but can't find anything about it.

[Bloo]

I hadn't heard the autobahn story, but in that era they had parts to build a 2.2 turbo to some insane horsepower (for the time), and completely streetable. It was DC/MP factory aftermarket stuff for the Omni GLH as I recall, but a 2.2 is a 2.2. It ran on pump gas but made more power on race gas. The package was called "Super 60".

 

[Rusty_OToole]

Speaking of Porsche. I recall a story from about 1965 by an American magazine writer on a junket to the Porsche factory to review the new models. He was a bit surprised when Ferry Porsche drove up in a Corvair. On inquiry it turned out GM had requested Porsche's assistance in designing or developing the new model and sent one over for testing.

[Walt G]

John A. Conde ( 1918 - 2008) was the Assistant Director of Public Relations with American Motors, he later ( in 1977) became the Curator of Transportation of the Henry Ford Museum.   He was a great friend of mine and in 1984 - 1985 he was the President of the Society of Automotive Historians and I was Vice President.

Each year at Hershey John and Jim Bradley of the Detroit Public Library automotive history section would attend together and bring a station wagon load of sales literature. They would set up at spaces in the Blue Field ( now roller coasterville) John as a side business acquired and sold sales literature issuing a printed catalog usually at least twice a year.

The car they would travel in would be a totally tricked out AMC station wagon . Had every option available and more added at John's request. He said the engineering dept. at American Motors liked to see him use the cars as he was a good test as to what would work, was convenient to use, placed in the logical place for ease of use by the driver etc. John was active in the automotive industry since the 1940s.  The most he had use of a car time wise was 2 years before the next "loaded" version would appear.

He had a really wicked sense of humor as well , for many his comments usually hit the listener a few seconds after they were said and the reaction was an open mouth and wide eyes.

I recall with great fondness as John, Jim and I walked into a great restaurant at Hershey time located in Hummelstown, P a. It was to be the place the annual SAH dinner took place with many many people in attendance, and Bill Jackson had arranged for us to have the event there . Jim Bradley was in the center as we walked together and John on one side and me on the other. Just before we reached the door to enter Jim said in a semi loud voice " you two lads are going to behave tonight - correct"  and  both John and I at exactly the same time said "NO".  Jim Bradley just shook his head slowly and under his breath said " I figured".  John and I looked at each other and smiled. 😇

Edited June 20, 2023 by Walt G (see edit history)

[prewarnut]

Well this doesn't count as a small company but Dr. Dieter Zetsche was CEO of Daimler for 16 years total and for 5 years overlapped as head of Daimler-Chrysler. I can find him in numerous photos of cars of the former, not much of the latter.

[8E45E]

20 hours ago, Studemax said:

I remember the cover of AutoWeek when Lee Iacocca was driving a K-car he'd had turned into a convertible.

As per his autobiography, many followed him in that car and whenever he stopped, got asked if Chrysler was going to start producing convertibles again.  There were enough requests that convinced him, it was time to re-introduce a true convertible body style based on the successful K-car.  (see pages 280 & 281 in Iacocca: An Autobiography)

 

Craig 

Edited June 20, 2023 by 8E45E (see edit history)

[Rusty_OToole]

When he was head of Pontiac John Delorean commissioned some Pontiac limousines. He thought Lincoln had a great gimmick in supplying limousines to the President and thought he could get similar publicity by furnishing Pontiac limos to state governors etc. But he was accused by rivals of aggrandizing himself and building expensive limos for his own use at company expense. This was all in On A Clear Day You Can See General Motors.

 

He also told how, when he first joined Pontiac, he tried to borrow a new convertible for his honeymoon but they wouldn't give him one. So he borrowed one from Packard where he had worked previously.

[8E45E]

10 hours ago, Rusty_OToole said:

When he was head of Pontiac John Delorean commissioned some Pontiac limousines. He thought Lincoln had a great gimmick in supplying limousines to the President and thought he could get similar publicity by furnishing Pontiac limos to state governors etc. But he was accused by rivals of aggrandizing himself and building expensive limos for his own use at company expense. This was all in On A Clear Day You Can See General Motors.

I do know Embassy converted many Bonneville four door sedans into 8-passenger sedans and limousines in those years.  Here is a 1964 Embassy conversion: Orphan of the Day, 04-12, 1964 Pontiac Bonneville - Studebaker Drivers Club Forum  .  In my opinion, the '65's and '66's look much better than the 1964 six-window design.

 

Craig

[8E45E]

23 hours ago, Walt G said:

The car they would travel in would be a totally tricked out AMC station wagon . Had every option available and more added at John's request. He said the engineering dept. at American Motors liked to see him use the cars as he was a good test as to what would work, was convenient to use, placed in the logical place for ease of use by the driver etc. John was active in the automotive industry since the 1940s.  The most he had use of a car time wise was 2 years before the next "loaded" version would appear.

I bet many of those items added were experimental components that were provided (and perhaps installed) by vendors, including Bendix, Stewart-Warner, Perfect Circle, et al., for testing and evaluation by the engineering staff at AMC.   Some of the items on John Conde's car may have eventually been offered by AMC later, or not at all, depending on cost, and if it was a 'worthwhile' option.  The same was also true for Studebaker, where E.T Reynolds got to drive daily kitted out cars with components that either were never offered, or later offered as options.  Factory fuel injected Avanti? - Studebaker Drivers Club Forum   Bendix attempted to 'sell' Studebaker on fuel injection, first in 1958 with their Electrojector system as used on Rambler Rebels (which I now wonder if John received one to evaluate) and DeSoto.  One Golden Hawk was fitted with it for testing.  Apparently, the same car also had a power lubrication system that Ford offered as an option.  In the end, Studebaker never offered either option, but it is documented the one car was made for evaluation by Studebaker engineering staff.  

 

Craig

[John Kelso]

Edsel Ford, CEO of Lincoln, always drove Lincolns, several made especially for him

[rocketraider]

15 hours ago, Rusty_OToole said:

When he was head of Pontiac John Delorean commissioned some Pontiac limousines. He thought Lincoln had a great gimmick in supplying limousines to the President and thought he could get similar publicity by furnishing Pontiac limos to state governors etc. But he was accused by rivals of aggrandizing himself

Not John Z!😄

 

Oh, to have mavericks like him running things at car companies again...

[Rusty_OToole]

4 hours ago, JAK said:

Edsel Ford, CEO of Lincoln, always drove Lincolns, several made especially for him

He had a few Fords as well. There was a sporty 33 roadster, I think he had a special model T? And of course the first Lincoln Continental of 1938 on a Zephyr chassis.

 

 

[8E45E]

5 hours ago, JAK said:

Edsel Ford, CEO of Lincoln, always drove Lincolns, several made especially for him

The original Continental was supposed to be a 'one-off' for him.

 

Craig

[58L-Y8]

5 hours ago, 8E45E said:

The original Continental was supposed to be a 'one-off' for him.

 

Craig

With one look, small wonder Edsel's wealth Palm Beach, FL friends ask for a custom Lincoln-Zephyr cabriolet of their own....

[John Kelso]

Edsel, The Story of Henry Fords Forgotten Son is an excellent book but a bit sad.

[Rusty_OToole]

Haven't read the book but always thought Edsel would have done better for himself if he broke away from the family and got out from under Henry's thumb.

Have thought this about the children of many rich or successful people. If they had gone into some profession or occupation far away from their famous parent and made their own name in the world they might have been better off. In Edsel's case he had a flair for design that might have paid off in industrial design. Or if he had gone into any business or profession far away from automobiles.

[Pfeil]

This one is not what did, but what does an executive of smaller companies drive.

RUF Automobile

[8E45E]

On 6/21/2023 at 12:30 PM, Rusty_OToole said:

Haven't read the book but always thought Edsel would have done better for himself if he broke away from the family and got out from under Henry's thumb.

Have thought this about the children of many rich or successful people. If they had gone into some profession or occupation far away from their famous parent and made their own name in the world they might have been better off. In Edsel's case he had a flair for design that might have paid off in industrial design. Or if he had gone into any business or profession far away from automobiles.

I agree with this.  It would have been a 50-50 gamble over becoming successful at a new profession, automobile-related or not.   

 

Either way, breaking away from the family dynasty would have lead to ostracism for him, knowing how tightly knit the Ford family was at the time.

 

Craig

Edited July 24, 2023 by 8E45E (see edit history)