Mark Smith auction April 7th, this Friday, who on this forum is going?

[old car fan]

Anymore, I love cars like that,also,disagree  with garage  art,depending  how handy  you are.Prices paid,who cares,that day it was worth that to someone. Personally, I thought  there was several solid buys.

[alsancle]

I’m wondering in a couple years if I’m going to feel like we should’ve bid stronger.  There were some cars there that you will never see available again, at least not for a long time.

[John Bloom]

20 minutes ago, alsancle said:

I’m wondering in a couple years if I’m going to feel like we should’ve bid stronger.  There were some cars there that you will never see available again, at least not for a long time.

I have found it interesting over the years how different people look at a collectible hobby car (and thank goodness we aren't all alike.....that would be boring).  I use the following analogy (and don't focus too intensely on the make model or price, I'm just using it to make my point)........

 

There are three guys who each have 50K to spend on a car.

 

The first guy wants a perfect car, concours/show/#1 car.  He spends his 50K on the best 1936 Packard 120 sedan money can buy.  It is just about perfect.  Everyone who sees it says "that is about the nicest one I've ever seen".  A pretty nice driver 120 can be bought for 20K but he isn't interested in that.  He wants the best, no apologies.

 

The second guy likes a nice driver.  He spends 50K on a 1937 Packard super 8 club sedan.  Long History of being maintained.  Pretty color.  Isn't perfect by any means, but the paint and chrome and interior look nice and the car runs well.  It is used in good weather for fun with family and friends.  Loves the car.

 

The third guy is drawn to something special and less common.  He spends 50K on a Custom Body Packard 640 Phaeton just drug out from a long 40 year hibernation and forgotten.  Dusty, mechanicals unknown, full of promise or heartbreak, but all there.  

 

I think I lean toward being that third guy.  

 

AJ, if you are having some doubts about not going after a couple of them, I can relate to that.  no doubt the unknown mechanicals of many of them and title status were a negative, but still some of them aren't easily found again.  

 

If possible get your buddies to buy them.....all the fun with your wallet still in your pocket!

 

[Steve_Mack_CT]

@John Bloom good summary.  I think I am the middle guy.  Especially with Packards.  I might be the first guy with an MG TD one day, I do wish timing was a hair different on the one  @Luv2Wrench restored and sold I believe for very fair ask a few months back.

But I could see  guy #3 scenario... 

[Guest]

Third guy here, I'll get the most bang for the buck and then turn it into a number 2

[John Bloom]

22 minutes ago, Steve_Mack_CT said:

@John Bloom good summary.  I think I am the middle guy.  Especially with Packards.  I might be the first guy with an MG TD one day, I do wish timing was a hair different on the one  @Luv2Wrench restored and sold I believe for very fair ask a few months back.

But I could see  guy #3 scenario... 

yes Steve, that TD was sweet.

 

I do admit that I am a #1......#2........#3. Guy as it pertains to certain makes and models.  (i’d like another Alfa spider 66 to 70, but definitely not a number three example of one).

 

A few of the cars at that auction were number threes in my scenario. Even with the mechanicals unknown, it would be fun to have picked one up and I think it would’ve held my attention. 
 

I wish I could have attended. Great stuff and I would have liked to have met some of the regulars here who were at the auction. 
 

Big thanks to all who were there and shared thoughts and pics. 

[1937hd45]

Was this the end of the Mark Smith collection? I know some cars were gifted to other collections Is there still a fair number of "Big Boy Toys" that will show up at another auction? 

[1wonton]

When successful on bidding does Gooding secure registration for the vehicle or do they expect the winning bidder to do this?  Seems like for 12% of the purchase this should be included.

[billorn]

1 minute ago, 1wonton said:

When successful on bidding does Gooding secure registration for the vehicle or do they expect the winning bidder to do this?  Seems like for 12% of the purchase this should be included.

If you read the fine print on this auction they didn't even have titles for some of the cars. Your on your own.

[alsancle]

21 hours ago, John Bloom said:

I have found it interesting over the years how different people look at a collectible hobby car (and thank goodness we aren't all alike.....that would be boring).  I use the following analogy (and don't focus too intensely on the make model or price, I'm just using it to make my point)........

 

There are three guys who each have 50K to spend on a car.

 

The first guy wants a perfect car, concours/show/#1 car.  He spends his 50K on the best 1936 Packard 120 sedan money can buy.  It is just about perfect.  Everyone who sees it says "that is about the nicest one I've ever seen".  A pretty nice driver 120 can be bought for 20K but he isn't interested in that.  He wants the best, no apologies.

 

The second guy likes a nice driver.  He spends 50K on a 1937 Packard super 8 club sedan.  Long History of being maintained.  Pretty color.  Isn't perfect by any means, but the paint and chrome and interior look nice and the car runs well.  It is used in good weather for fun with family and friends.  Loves the car.

 

The third guy is drawn to something special and less common.  He spends 50K on a Custom Body Packard 640 Phaeton just drug out from a long 40 year hibernation and forgotten.  Dusty, mechanicals unknown, full of promise or heartbreak, but all there.  

 

I think I lean toward being that third guy.  

 

AJ, if you are having some doubts about not going after a couple of them, I can relate to that.  no doubt the unknown mechanicals of many of them and title status were a negative, but still some of them aren't easily found again.  

 

If possible get your buddies to buy them.....all the fun with your wallet still in your pocket!

 

 

Great write up John!  I think this is spot on and really describes 3 different buckets that people fall in to.  I'm the guy who would buy the obscure POS that nobody else has just so I can be the guy that has one.   Even if I might never be able to make it run.

 

Also, your last comment is 100% true.  Nothing is more fun than spending someone else's money!

[alsancle]

6 hours ago, billorn said:

If you read the fine print on this auction they didn't even have titles for some of the cars. Your on your own.

The fine fine print says that the purchaser is buying from the estate and not Gooding.   They are simply conducting the sale on behalf of the estate.   Some cars did have titles, many did not.  You needed to pay attention.

[1937hd45]

My guess is none of the Race Cars had titles and most Brass Cars predated titles in whatever state they were sold in. The title crap discussion reminds me of this horse. 

[edinmass]

21 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

Was this the end of the Mark Smith collection? I know some cars were gifted to other collections Is there still a fair number of "Big Boy Toys" that will show up at another auction? 

 

All done………the “missing” cars not at the auctions were given away. It’s interesting that a friend of mine received a car as a gift, and went to the auction and bought the one he wanted! It’s the thought that counts…………

[1wonton]

38 minutes ago, alsancle said:

The fine fine print says that the purchaser is buying from the estate and not Gooding.   They are simply conducting the sale on behalf of the estate.   Some cars did have titles, many did not.  You needed to pay attention.

  That wasn't my question.  I was fully aware of the title status before the auction.   Last car I bought (two years ago Monterey Auction) Gooding registered the car and sent me the new title.  I live in California and the auction was in California so maybe that was different than the auction being held in Virgina.  Thanks for the advice....................

 

[John Bloom]

1 hour ago, alsancle said:

 

Great write up John!  I think this is spot on and really describes 3 different buckets that people fall in to.  I'm the guy who would buy the obscure POS that nobody else has just so I can be the guy that has one.   Even if I might never be able to make it run.

 

Also, your last comment is 100% true.  Nothing is more fun than spending someone else's money!

As for spending other people’s money........ 35 years ago I was really into high end audio equipment. I was great at turning normal buddies who liked  music into guys who suddenly needed a Nakamichi dragon and a Mark Levinson amp. Their wives hated me. 
 

nothing is sexier than an “obscure POS” that is rarely seen. 
 

 

[edinmass]

It’s my experience that the big auction companies can title a grilled cheese sandwich…….in less than three days. All it takes is money, and access. 

[alsancle]

32 minutes ago, 1wonton said:

  That wasn't my question.  I was fully aware of the title status before the auction.   Last car I bought (two years ago Monterey Auction) Gooding registered the car and sent me the new title.  I live in California and the auction was in California so maybe that was different than the auction being held in Virgina.  Thanks for the advice....................

 

 

I was not aware that Gooding provided that service and may be something specific to them and California?   I assume you asked them to do that or they would not have known where register it for you.  

 

 

[alsancle]

14 minutes ago, edinmass said:

It’s my experience that the big auction companies can title a grilled cheese sandwich…….in less than three days. All it takes is money, and access. 

 

Because I'm such a  small fry the quickest I have ever seen a title was 6 weeks. 

[1937hd45]

4 hours ago, edinmass said:

 

All done………the “missing” cars not at the auctions were given away. It’s interesting that a friend of mine received a car as a gift, and went to the auction and bought the one he wanted! It’s the thought that counts…………

I traced a car for 40 years that wound up in the Smith collection. I think he bought cars in mass lots, he really had no idea what this car was when he bought it. He gave it to the Revs Institute which was a nice thing to do, but I would have loved to have bought it from him. Wonder were the former John Burgess D.O. Fronty went? 

Edited April 14, 2023 by 1937hd45 (see edit history)

[1wonton]

On 4/13/2023 at 5:28 PM, alsancle said:

 

I was not aware that Gooding provided that service and may be something specific to them and California?   I assume you asked them to do that or they would not have known where register it for you.  

 

 

When you buy a car through the auction they need to know your name and address.  I did not ask them to re-title the car, it was a part of the service, as well as collecting sales tax for my State.

 

[alsancle]

1 hour ago, 1wonton said:

When you buy a car through the auction they need to know your name and address.  I did not ask them to re-title the car, it was a part of the service, as well as collecting sales tax for my State.

 

That wouldn't be a great service if you were planning on storing and registering the cars outside of California.  Maybe there is a law in CA that says if you buy something within the state and you live there you owe the sales tax regardless of where the car is titled and stored.

[Wascator]

One day someone who has the means to do so, will want a car to restore; more and more it seems it will be a re-restoration. I’m glad someone is willing to do it; all great art has been funded by someone. 

[Antichrysler]

On 4/8/2023 at 10:27 AM, Antichrysler said:

Update to my 1929 Stutz purchase at the Mark Smith auction.   Gooding emailed me the provenance papers for the car.  From 1931 until 1966, it was owned by Norman C. Chambers, who was identified as a Caterpillar sales manager, with no other information about him. I found his address from an attached mechanical drawing of the fuel float sender he ordered for the Stutz in the 40s.  His address was 40 E. 54th St.  A simple Google search of that address and name revealed that Norman C. Chambers was a Titanic survivor. He was 27 at the time.  He was awake when the Titanic hit the iceberg, and as a mechanical engineer, he later provided testimony to the Senate that he observed that the ship’s crew did not know how to work the watertight bulkheads. Other information in the Wiki account reveals that Chambers sailed from Germany in 1938 on the President Harding, which is the same account Chambers makes in the papers that come with the Stutz. Another interesting piece is his note from May 7, 1940, that he and the car “left Paris.” Just in time, I guess. Anyway, although Chambers’s name shows up in the Gooding provenance, his rather interesting link to history did not. My guess is that if this car had been identified by Gooding as the long-time property of a Titanic survivor, it might have drawn more interest—although it’s hard to say.  In any case, this old Stutz holds quite a bit of history. 

 

https://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/titanic-survivor/norman-campbell-chambers.html

 

 

Here’s a news report about this Stutz safely escaping Paris as it fell. 

[Joe in Canada]

On 4/7/2023 at 2:44 PM, cxgvd said:

379,000 model k

Gary did you notice in the picture of the model K the two fellows looking at it is Peter and Hugo. Hugo already has a Model K plus a 6 cyl Model N. 

 Joe

Edited April 21, 2023 by Joe in Canada (see edit history)

[1937hd45]

8 minutes ago, Joe in Canada said:

Gary did you notice in the picture of the model K the two fellows looking at it is Peter and Hugo. Hugo already has a Model K plus a 6 cyl Model N. 

 Joe

Is that 6 cylinder N in Australia? 

[Joe in Canada]

1 hour ago, 1937hd45 said:

Is that 6 cylinder N in Australia? 

It was in Australia until about 5 years ago and now north of Oshawa Ont. Canada.

 

Edited April 21, 2023 by Joe in Canada (see edit history)

[cxgvd]

Hey Joe;  Good catch with spotting Hugo and Peter.  Perhaps Peter bought the Smith Model K because he was tired of being late for lunch?

 

Regards, Gary

[rcr]

On 4/7/2023 at 5:49 PM, 1937hd45 said:

 

Is this the former Frank Buck restored Packard that was later owned by Dan Sergent? 

Don Carlsons’ for many years.

[1937hd45]

9 minutes ago, rcr said:

Don Carlsons’ for many years.

Thank you! One of the 1915 Ford Couplets was Don's for many years. I enjoy following the life of cars I've seen over the past 60 years. 

 

Bob 

[Joe in Canada]

On 4/21/2023 at 7:59 AM, cxgvd said:

Hey Joe;  Good catch with spotting Hugo and Peter.  Perhaps Peter bought the Smith Model K because he was tired of being late for lunch?

 

Regards, Gary

Peter got the Ford K home on the weekend after getting the title with the long delay that was expected from the estate . Peter says the engine is stuck and he plans to get it running and road worthy and drive it. So I guess you are correct they will not be late fore lunch anymore. Unless he takes one of his Ts.

There is now three Model Ks out of the 23 known cars within 10 miles of each other.

Edited May 2, 2023 by Joe in Canada (see edit history)

[alsancle]

44 minutes ago, Joe in Canada said:

Peter got the Ford K home on the weekend after getting the title with the long delay that was expected from the estate . Peter says the engine is stuck and he plans to get it running and road worthy and drive it. So I guess you are correct they will not be late fore lunch anymore. Unless he takes one of his Ts.

There is now three Model Ks out of the 23 known cars within 10 miles of each other.

Three weeks on the title it’s not bad at all. I’ve waited two months for a title after an auction buy 😀

[1937hd45]

11 hours ago, Joe in Canada said:

Peter got the Ford K home on the weekend after getting the title with the long delay that was expected from the estate . Peter says the engine is stuck and he plans to get it running and road worthy and drive it. So I guess you are correct they will not be late fore lunch anymore. Unless he takes one of his Ts.

There is now three Model Ks out of the 23 known cars within 10 miles of each other.

This K is a former Elmer Beims car correct? Just read a story about him getting it together & running in a 1951 issue of Bulb Horn. I'll find it and pass the info along. Bob

Edited May 3, 2023 by 1937hd45 (see edit history)

[edinmass]

 

The Ford K sure looked decent at the sale.......always was impressed with them. The same old non running auction story.........."stuck engine". If you're lucky, the oil has just turned to glue and a simple disassembly or oil pot will flood it and make it come loose. It's the scary part where you have a ruptured block or some other unpredictable nightmare scenario that send a chill down your spine. I hope for the best for the new owner. One good point is anyone wanting a Ford K is probably perfectly capable of getting it sorted out. 

[Joe in Canada]

6 hours ago, edinmass said:

 

The Ford K sure looked decent at the sale.......always was impressed with them. The same old non running auction story.........."stuck engine". If you're lucky, the oil has just turned to glue and a simple disassembly or oil pot will flood it and make it come loose. It's the scary part where you have a ruptured block or some other unpredictable nightmare scenario that send a chill down your spine. I hope for the best for the new owner. One good point is anyone wanting a Ford K is probably perfectly capable of getting it sorted out. 

Ed you may know or know of the new owner of the K with you being a Pierce follower. His father is the late Ron Fawcett the owner of several early Pierces and the source of the recast aluminum body's for Pierce.

Bob is also correct on his info about the car. 

Edited May 3, 2023 by Joe in Canada (see edit history)

[edinmass]

2 minutes ago, Joe in Canada said:

Ed you may know or know of the new owner of the K with you being a Pierce follower. His father is the late Ron Fawcett the owner of several early Pierces and the source of the recast aluminum body's for Pierce.

I actually was standing next to him, but didn’t know who it was at the time. I have sold him parts in the past.

[Shivraj Anand]

On 4/14/2023 at 5:11 AM, edinmass said:

 

All done………the “missing” cars not at the auctions were given away. It’s interesting that a friend of mine received a car as a gift, and went to the auction and bought the one he wanted! It’s the thought that counts…………

I believe this was the final round of a series of Auctions. 

 

There were a series of Auctions over 3 days back in October as well - some rather interesting cars and parts too!!!

 

https://www.proxibid.com/Polk-Auction-Company/MARK-SMITH-ESTATE-AUCTION-DAY-1/event-catalog/226448

 

https://www.proxibid.com/Polk-Auction-Company/MARK-SMITH-ESTATE-AUCTION-DAY-2/event-catalog/226420?p=7&sort=0#cnTb

 

https://www.proxibid.com/Polk-Auction-Company/MARK-SMITH-ESTATE-AUCTION-DAY-3/event-catalog/226394

 

 

[1937hd45]

FOUND IT!!!!!!!!!!! The tour card I cleaned out of the Babcock when it was owned by Dr. Henry Minot in the 1970's. Now to find some more details on the Tour and other cars that were on it. Seventy seven years ago  the car was in the hobby, glad it will be out at events again with the new owner. Bob 

Edited May 14, 2023 by 1937hd45 (see edit history)

[Joe in Canada]

Recognize this car as it was on the road today for a tour with the HCCA.  Peter said he let it sit for one month with Marvel Mystery oil in the cylinders and it freed up. He was able to sort the car starting in the morning and was out for its first  drive in the late after noon.

They clocked 260 miles with two other K touring's in Lindsay Ontario. 

Edited May 30, 2023 by Joe in Canada (see edit history)

[wayne sheldon]

I was so pleased when I heard that Peter had bought that car! I was hoping ahead of the auction that he would. I do not  know Peter myself, but I know a few people that do. I know his reputation, I know his experience with these cars, and I figured he would be the perfect caretaker for this one.

It looks wonderful!

[1937hd45]

Great to see that K out on the road again! I think the total number of running K's is a bit higher. Bob 

Edited May 29, 2023 by 1937hd45 (see edit history)