Safety glass required in MA

[wellis66]

There is a new bill in Massachusetts that would require all vehicles to have safety glass to be registered. Now I am all for safety but not all cars have that option. My 1924 willets has its original glass and it’s not safety glass. Should I be required to replace it? And what if someone does not make a replacement?

[edinmass]

Federal DOT rules make states accept original equipment to receive Chapter 90 funds. I would look closely at the exact wording. Easy way out, go to a glass shop and have the glass acid stamped safety glass. Having owned three inspection stations in Mass, I can tell you 95 percent of the inspectors don’t know how to tell plate glass from safety glass. 

[rocketraider]

Sounds like it's time for older car owners and clubs in Massachusetts to start bombarding the statehouse with facts and figures, and the very limited use such vehicles actually see. I can guarantee the legislators pushing this haven't considered cars produced prior to introduction of safety glass.

 

A lot of uneducated people manage to get themselves installed in positions of power and authority. It's in our best interest to educate them. "Lead them to water" so to speak.

[alsancle]

8 minutes ago, rocketraider said:

Sounds like it's time for older car owners and clubs in Massachusetts to start bombarding the statehouse with facts and figures, and the very limited use such vehicles actually see. I can guarantee the legislators pushing this haven't considered cars produced prior to introduction of safety glass.

 

A lot of uneducated people manage to get themselves installed in positions of power and authority. It's in our best interest to educate them. "Lead them to water" so to speak.

I can see you don't know a lot about how Massachusetts works.  I'm just happy they allow me to still own a car.

[HarryLime]

Can you post a picture of your 1924 willets ??

[rocketraider]

1 hour ago, alsancle said:

I can see you don't know a lot about how Massachusetts works.  I'm just happy they allow me to still own a car.

I don't!😄 But that's what we had to do in VA in 2007. That legislator has been awful quiet on old car stuff since some of us working behind the scenes came within 600 votes of unseating him the following election.😈

 

I'll elaborate on uneducated people getting in positions of power and authority. Sometimes complete nincompoops manage to do it. The solution is to work to get them out of the way.

 

Yah, easier said than done.

[joe_padavano]

This is a case of uninformed lawmakers (yeah, what a shock). If you read the actual text of the law (which was introduced nearly a year ago in Feb 2022), it is intended to specify that REPLACEMENT auto glass meet the same safety requirements as the OEM safety glass. Not a bad thing, if they had only stopped there. Unfortunately, the law goes on to add:

 

Quote

(d) (1) The registrar shall not register any motor vehicle unless it is equipped with approved safety glass.

(2) The registrar shall suspend the registration of any motor vehicle that the registrar finds is not equipped with approved safety glass until the vehicle is equipped with approved safety glass pursuant to this section.

If you read the entire text of the proposed law, (available here), you can see that the intent was to refer to cars with non-compliant replacement glass. Unfortunately the lazy/sloppy wording can be used to cover ALL cars. A simple change to ensure that this only refers to replacement glass that meets the standards in place when the vehicle was manufactured is required. Of course, that would require common sense on the part of lawmakers.

[wellis66]

13 hours ago, rocketraider said:

Sounds like it's time for older car owners and clubs in Massachusetts to start bombarding the statehouse with facts and figures, and the very limited use such vehicles actually see. I can guarantee the legislators pushing this haven't considered cars produced prior to introduction of safety glass.

 

A lot of uneducated people manage to get themselves installed in positions of power and authority. It's in our best interest to educate them. "Lead them to water" so to speak.

You clearly have not talked to old car people in MA.  I am president of the Association of Car Clubs, and if 2 people were to show interest in going to the state house, it would be a miracle.  Years ago I went from club to club talking about the laws that were proposed and asked for donations to hire a lobbyist,  I got $200 from one person, and the rest of the time I got "not worth my time"

That said, you are correct - there is one car guy on the Transportation committee who likes cars, the others are there for the politics.

[wellis66]

16 hours ago, HarryLime said:

Can you post a picture of your 1924 willets ??

Absolutely.... here it is when I got it from the sellers house.

[JFranklin]

Having a glass co cut and replace your plate glass is fairly inexpensive and really is a safety feature. I did my car and then found a 1920s travel decal to put on it, so everything looks original.

[edinmass]

 

Replacing glass is not always easy, and often very difficult. When I replaced the glass in my 1917 White, installing modern safety glass to replace the plate glass, it took three attempts to get it so that it didn't fracture after going down the road five miles. The glass company was great about it, replaced it without question, and then said never come back again! Personally in a windshield and side window I would never run anything but modern safety glass. I have invoices showing mid 20's cars getting upgraded at the dealership......and people were paying big dollars to do it. I'm certain Massachusetts will not change the law or wording if it has already been passed. They will issue a RMV directive to the inspection stations to not apply the rule to say......pre 1928 automobiles.  

 

You can see the lower curve in the lower windshield frame that caused the issue. A "simple" flat glass replacement can easily cost 1000 dollars or more..........I had to spend hours to get the frame clean and remove the rock hard rubber. What looks like a two hour job was probably four days in total. 

Edited January 12, 2023 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Grimy]

47 minutes ago, edinmass said:

What looks like a two hour job was probably four days in total. 

An absolutely perfect example of Grimy's Law of How Long Old Car Projects Take--as described a few days ago:  double the digit of how long it should take, then convert to the next higher increment of time.  Should take 2 hrs, will actually take 4 days.....

[edinmass]

6 minutes ago, Grimy said:

An absolutely perfect example of Grimy's Law of How Long Old Car Projects Take--as described a few days ago:  double the digit of how long it should take, then convert to the next higher increment of time.  Should take 2 hrs, will actually take 4 days.....

 

And don't forget in your case......your ancient decrepitude..........a two hour job could take months......or years!😎

[Grimy]

Just now, edinmass said:

 

And don't forget in your case......your ancient decrepitude..........a two hour job could take months......or years!😎

And that's the truth!  But don't remind me.....

[R Walling]

 I would not drive a car with plate glass in it!

 The guy that invented safety glass got killed when he had an accident with his car that he did not replace the glass and was fatally cut with the OEM glass.

 

  

[Larry Schramm]

I know of at least one person that drives his car with plate glass and will not replace it because "it was built that way and it lasted over 100 years"  IMO, crazy position, but it is his car, and his and his passengers life he is rolling the dice on.

[Leif in Calif]

On 1/12/2023 at 6:05 AM, joe_padavano said:

This is a case of uninformed lawmakers (yeah, what a shock). If you read the actual text of the law (which was introduced nearly a year ago in Feb 2022), it is intended to specify that REPLACEMENT auto glass meet the same safety requirements as the OEM safety glass. Not a bad thing, if they had only stopped there. Unfortunately, the law goes on to add:

 

If you read the entire text of the proposed law, (available here), you can see that the intent was to refer to cars with non-compliant replacement glass. Unfortunately the lazy/sloppy wording can be used to cover ALL cars. A simple change to ensure that this only refers to replacement glass that meets the standards in place when the vehicle was manufactured is required. Of course, that would require common sense on the part of lawmakers.

As a former glass shop owner and later executive with Pilkington (formerly known as LOF) this is just nuts! There is NO non-compliant replacement glass.  The worst quality foreign replacement glass is still safety.   It's a law without a reason. 

I'd also say I certainly would never stamp a piece of glass as safety glass that I wasn't sure was safety glass. Unfortunately, situations like that are why God made lawyers....

[Frank DuVal]

Late to the discussion, but just wanted to say Virginia also has a safety glass law, but did put a date to which it does not apply.

 

Reject if:

 

1. Any motor vehicle manufactured or assembled after January 1, 1936, or any bus, taxicab or school bus manufactured or assembled after January 1, 1935, is not equipped throughout with safety glass, or other safety glazing material. (This requirement includes slide-in campers used on pickups or trucks, caps, or covers used on pickup trucks, motor homes, and vans.)

 

On a personal note, I had a Corvair van which a previous owner installed jalousie windows, like a camper van. The glass in a few broke, so I removed the broken pieces and put some plastic over those windows.  Then months later I went for inspection. Failed due to no safety glass. But, no glass will pass, so I pulled off the plastic and got my sticker. Then drove to the local glass shop so they could measure and make 6 slats for me out of laminated safety glass. Not much money back then, simple straight cuts. Funny fact, windshields here are not required until July 1, 1970 production date of the vehicle. Just slap that sticker on the dash. 😁

[edinmass]

In Massachuetts tint laws are asinine. You can place a piece of plywood where the drivers door window goes, and it passes inspection. But if you tint is too dark, you get a rejection sticker. The stories I could tell about Mass State Inspections could fill three volumes of books. I inspected tens of thousands of cars over the years……….what came through the door would absolutely blow you away.

[mechanician]

I had a MA inspection station drive my model T through a headlight alignment board because the "had to drive it in" and clearly didn't know how to accomplish the task...  New Hampshire will happen eventually, not soon enough though!

[Layden B]

What most old car guys don't know is that in the old days of plate glass in closed cars, it was the glass that was the leading cause of death in accidents.

[J.H.Boland]

It's been the rule for years that safety glass is a must have to participate in Historical Automobile Society of Canada events. One of the main reasons this was passed was due to a head-on collision between gawkers and a '34 Chevy. Both the driver and his wife were ejected through the plate glass windshield and required multiple plastic surgeries .The club also has annual inspection meets to check for cracked tires, brake and steering function, etc.

All it would take is one serious accident caused by an old car's mechanical failure to put our entire hobby in jeopardy.

[gungeey]

On 1/11/2023 at 6:37 PM, wellis66 said:

There is a new bill in Massachusetts that would require all vehicles to have safety glass to be registered. Now I am all for safety but not all cars have that option. My 1924 willets has its original glass and it’s not safety glass. Should I be required to replace it? And what if someone does not make a replacement?

What you state would be unreasonable, but your assessment of the law is incorrect.

 

Does not apply to your car:

 

 

Section 9A. No person shall operate any motor vehicle, and the owner or custodian of a motor vehicle shall not permit the same to be operated with partitions, doors, windows or windshields of glass unless such glass is of a type known as safety glass. The term ''safety glass'', as used herein, shall include any glass designed to minimize the likelihood of personal injury from its breaking or scattering when broken. This section shall not apply to motor vehicles manufactured prior to January first, nineteen hundred and thirty-six.

 

General Law - Part I, Title XIV, Chapter 90, Section 9A (malegislature.gov)

[Frank DuVal]

Ah Ha! Massachusetts has the same date as Virginia for safety glass requirements. No issue.

 

You want to drive a car with plate glass, you take the risk.