Stephenca118 Posted October 1, 2022 Share Posted October 1, 2022 (edited) I was asked to get this 1957 Century back on the road that has sat since 1988. It looks all original except the front seat has been recovered. The mice had taken up permanent residence over the years but I think I have got them all evicted. The upholstery is ruined but luckily they avoided the head liner. The air cleaner had been left off at one point and they even camped on top of the carb. The carb is soaking, the interior I got gutted, have not looked under the dash yet, that is next. The engine is froze, got the cylinders soaking with ATF and that is as far as I got. Been here at my house a week. Shop manual is on order. Edited October 1, 2022 by Stephenca118 Wrong year (see edit history) 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1957buickjim Posted October 1, 2022 Share Posted October 1, 2022 Wow! Looks like its in really nice condition to start a restoration. Nice find! Is it yours, or someone elses? Feel free to reach out to me, as I have a bit of experience in these Junior Series (Special / Century) 57's, if you get stuck or want to ask a question. Congrats! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephenca118 Posted October 1, 2022 Author Share Posted October 1, 2022 Thank you for your offer Jim. I will let you know if and when I have any questions. The car belongs to a distant relative, guess I can call him a cousin, so many times removed. Anyway his grandpa bought it new in 57. He had his nephew trailer it up to me in WA state from the Monterey area of CA. He asked me to try to get it roadworthy for him so he can take his dad for a ride in it before he passes. His dad is 88 and grew up with this car. The Buick has been locked in a shed since 1988. I got the crank to move a bit, still soaking it in ATF and hoping for a miracle, but not holding my breath. It feels like there is a stuck valve. Got the carb apart, had to drill out one screw that was rusted in the base and it looks like the carb might be a saver. Got it soaking in the bad stuff. Thanks again and I will let you know if I have any questions, Steve 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted October 1, 2022 Share Posted October 1, 2022 Good set of bones. Should be a fun project to get back on the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Eaton Posted October 1, 2022 Share Posted October 1, 2022 Good stock to start with..... I would change those air freshners 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketraider Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 A four-door hardtop hotrod Burick! That's riding in style! Was there any evidence mouse detritus got past the carb and into the intake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephenca118 Posted October 3, 2022 Author Share Posted October 3, 2022 Actually the carb looked pretty good when I got it apart, it is in the tank now, no sign of chit in the intake. I have not had a chance to work on it today, I have been assembling my 62 Olds 215, but I got the Buick crank to move a bit yesterday, still soaking. Got errands to do tomorrow so will look at it more on Tuesday. Thank you for the replys, Steve 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 Periodically spray some penetrating oil (e.g., WD-40) on the valve shafts. Hopefully some of that will seep into the guides and loosen them up. After a couple of days you can try tapping the valve stems with a brass drift to see whether they are free. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 1 hour ago, EmTee said: Periodically spray some penetrating oil (e.g., WD-40) on the valve shafts. Hopefully some of that will seep into the guides and loosen them up. After a couple of days you can try tapping the valve stems with a brass drift to see whether they are free. When I free a stuck nailhead, always remove the rocker assemblies first. If any of the valves are down, those need to be freed before rotating the engine. In addition to the technique above, sometimes hot (very) oil will help. And be sure the rockers are free on the shafts. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephenca118 Posted October 3, 2022 Author Share Posted October 3, 2022 Good advice, thank you. I will follow your tips. Have not worked on it yet, maybe this afternoon. I got the valve covers off, will pull the rockers and see what I can see. Thank you again, Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephenca118 Posted October 4, 2022 Author Share Posted October 4, 2022 I pulled the rockers and one valve was stuck down, a light tap with a brass drift allowed it to pop up. All the others look good. Got the carb out of the gunk and cleaned up, I think I can save this one. I can move the crank back and forth a bit, going to keep soaking it and move it a bit at a time, I don't want to pull the motor till I get my Olds motor installed. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 May I ask if the fan belts have been removed? Weve seen some aluminum water pumps severly corroded in the long term storage situation. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephenca118 Posted October 6, 2022 Author Share Posted October 6, 2022 Yes, thank you John, The belts, fan and pulley have been removed for ease of access to the crank bolt. And yes, the water pump is froze. Not sure if that is the least of my problems. There is an oil slick forming under the motor, guess I better crawl under there and see if I have a holy oil pan. I will try to put some time on it today, been working on the Olds to free up the rack so I can get this one in the air. Thank you for the input, Steve 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephenca118 Posted October 6, 2022 Author Share Posted October 6, 2022 Unfroze it! Turning over smoothly now and all the push rods are moving normally. Maybe it will run? Carb kit on order, guess I will put the rockers back on and do a compression test, see if I broke any rings. Front seal is leaking, Im sure the rear will leak also, the underside is a mess. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephenca118 Posted October 7, 2022 Author Share Posted October 7, 2022 Ok, I am back, and need some ideas. This car has been sitting since 1988, but there are signs someone has worked on it. When I got it two weeks ago the crank would not move at all. Yesterday after letting the cylinders soak for a week with ATF, with rockers off and all valves free I tried to rotate the crank pulley clockwise. It moved a smidge. Then moved it counter clock and it moved a bit, seemed loose and then moved freely, continued to turn it one revolution, counterclockwise. Then Moved the crank back clockwise, hit a hard spot, applied just a little pressure and it freed up. It moved freely clockwise spitting out ATF from all holes multiple rotations. I can watch the distributor rotor turning normally. So I thought DONE!, I reinstalled the rockers. Rotated clockwise by hand multiple rotations to ensure all valves were moving correctly. Ready to do a compression test. Connected remote start switch and engine turned over a bit, spurting more ATF. Hit it again, engine locked up. Disconnected battery and tried turning crank clockwise by hand. Locked up. Rotated counterclockwise and it rotated 2 revolutions. Rotated clockwise multiple revolutions with no issues. Connected battery and engine turned over a bit then locked up. Disconnected battery and tried to turn my hand clockwise and it is locked. Rotated counterclockwise and it frees it up and then I can rotate by hand clockwise again. So, Its automatic, can anything in the tranny be causing this? Water pump is off. Fuel pump is still in. Broken crankshaft? Broken piston ring? Timing chain seems to feel ok but I have not removed the cover yet. Time to pull the motor? Ideas? Thank you, Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted October 7, 2022 Share Posted October 7, 2022 Starter stuck? Pull it to be sure there are no issues. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1957buickjim Posted October 7, 2022 Share Posted October 7, 2022 (edited) Old Tank has a good point with the starter. Also try putting the transmission in neutral, if you haven't already. Could be transmission issue. You could also use an endoscope camera on your phone to look in each cylinder through the spark plug hole and see if there is anything that would impede piston travel in each cylinder that could cause the issue. You might want to drop the oil pan and check the crank as well. I know, a messy job for sure. If it is a broken crankshaft, it might be able to be turned by hand because there is not much torque provided by hand turning. The starter would put alot of torque on the shaft, and may jam it at the break point to lock it up. Then you may wiggle it back in a "neutral" position with the break aligned on both halves of the crank. Moves good again by hand, then high torque lock up. Dropping the pan will give you pretty good insight if that is the case, and you could check for parts and bits in the oil pan. I'm not sure that a broken ring would cause the engine to lock up, because they are contained in the cylinder bore and shouldn't go above the block, so it would not jam the piston, you most likely would not have good or any compression in the cylinder that would have a broken ring. Edited October 7, 2022 by 1957buickjim spelling (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted October 7, 2022 Share Posted October 7, 2022 I am working on a stuck engine myself. I can swing it freely about 30 to 40 degrees. All I want to do is make a full revolution so I can unbolt the torque converter. It is a small block 350 Chevy. I have no plans to try to start it. I know I won't be happy with the results. I could make quite a list of experiences that I have had with my own cars and the cars I have worked on for people. The heads are easy to pull on that engine. Just check for pitting in the cylinder walls. The pits will make it a smoker and stuck rings will make it a puffer from the crankcase breather. Do you have a budget number in your head? Sometimes I feel like sitting down and listing the 300 $100 jobs it takes to put a car back together, the easy ones, that is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAD36 Posted October 7, 2022 Share Posted October 7, 2022 2 hours ago, old-tank said: Starter stuck? Pull it to be sure there are no issues. Maybe not retracting, or a chipped or damaged tooth locking it up on the flywheel or starter gear? Starter is easiest to pull to isolate. Then you’re into the engine. Take your pick what to pull next.. Timing cover, heads, pan. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephenca118 Posted October 8, 2022 Author Share Posted October 8, 2022 Thank you all for the input and advice. I will look at it on Tuesday, starting with the trans in neutral, then starter, after that, well I will let you know. Thank you again and I will update when I find something, Steve 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephenca118 Posted October 16, 2022 Author Share Posted October 16, 2022 Back, did not get to it on Tuesday, been working on the Olds all week to free up the rack. Wanted to get the Buick in the air and do a look see to see if I will need to pull the motor. I am guessing so. Got most of the drums off, having issues with RR. LR had new shoes and cyls at some point, fronts not so good. Where to start. I will get help to pull the hood tomorrow and maybe look more into the motor issue then talk to the owner. Saw some bailing wire but no bubblegum. Is it worth it to convert to roller bearings, since I will be in there anyways? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephenca118 Posted October 16, 2022 Author Share Posted October 16, 2022 (edited) Found the intermittent engine seize up problem. Wish I had pulled the fuel pump first. I will put on a new timing chain and check compression. Then remove the motor to fix the freeze plugs, new pan gasket, some minor cleanup and probably some other stuff. Thank you for all the advice and input. Oh and a new thermostat. Steve Edited October 16, 2022 by Stephenca118 (see edit history) 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted October 16, 2022 Share Posted October 16, 2022 18 hours ago, Stephenca118 said: Is it worth it to convert to roller bearings, since I will be in there anyways? Roller bearings made of "unobtanium". If you want to look: 909072R inner; 909065R outer. The 'R' suffix denotes roller and were available aftermarket for a few years when the car was contemporary . Widely available without the "R" and will serve you well with modern grease and set the preload per the manual. What broke first...the arm on the FP or the cam gear? Anyhow you discovered why it was parked! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephenca118 Posted October 16, 2022 Author Share Posted October 16, 2022 Old Tank, I think the arm broke first then I finished it trying to turn it over. Thank you for the info on the bearings, I will clean these up and see how they look. Thanks again, Steve 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketraider Posted October 16, 2022 Share Posted October 16, 2022 1 hour ago, Stephenca118 said: 😳 That's one of the worst timing set failures I've seen on a steel cam gear. With all the rust and crud in the water jacket a complete teardown, clean and rebuild may be in order. 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted October 16, 2022 Share Posted October 16, 2022 20 hours ago, Stephenca118 said: Is it worth it to convert to roller bearings, since I will be in there anyways? If you find a set of the bearings that Old-Tank ID'd, then sure. Otherwise, I'd go with new ball bearings. Save your money for the things that are necessary in order to make it roadworthy again... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAD36 Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 Wow…..bit more than a chipped tooth huh - thanks for all the pics. BTW - seeing those cobwebs in the brakes and the wire holding the exhaust brings back nightmares 🙂 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smartin Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 WOW! I'm not usually one to say to do a complete inspection of that engine, but I wouldn't drop dime into it until I knew everything internal was intact. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95Cardinal Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 (edited) I wouldn't try to make that run that without digging into it. If it was mine, I'd pull it apart and check everything before putting any significant $$ into it. Based on the coolant passages, broken fuel pump arm and the shattered timing gears, I would expect some nasty surprises. My carb looked like that when I pulled it off. There was a mouse nest on top of the #8 piston and significant pitting in that cylinder. Mouse urine is a great corrosion accelerant. Edited October 19, 2022 by 95Cardinal Added comment, corrected spelling. (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephenca118 Posted October 22, 2022 Author Share Posted October 22, 2022 Thank you very much for your responses. Yes a more detailed inspection is in order. Got the brakes done. Front drums cleaned up very nice at 30 over. One rear is at 45 over and one is 130 over so debating replacing the one. I only see them on ebay at 100 plus 50 shipping. Got one National inner front wheel bearing, at $80 plus, I have not done ball rollers in a while, what's with the plastic carrier? Outer is in route, guess it will be plastic also. The box said National, not International. Not a warm and fuzzy feeling. Got the timing gears on and comp check done but cylinders are very full of ATF and comp was high in all cyl, 120-210. Got oil at the rockers during comp check. Carb is back together today. I think it is a saver. Critters did not get into the intake manifold. I really don't want to pull the heads if I can avoid it. The engine is a mess externally filthy, freeze plugs are gone. So the engine comes out tomorrow. Strangely, the shop manual does not say anything about engine removal. Motors says if you have an automatic, remove the tranny. Chilton only talks about a standard. I do not see any reason to remove the tranny, unless someone can tell me otherwise. I do not plan to disturb the transmission at all. The fluid looks very clean and red on the stick so I am leaving it alone. As I am on a budget, I plan to pull the motor, power wash it, with the freeze plugs out, and the engine bay, pull the pan and a couple of caps and see how bad or good it is. If not too bad run it on my test stand. Hope to put it back in and let him have it. If it smokes, oh well, as long as it runs. I am doing this for a relative, parts only. Should I add more pictures? Thank you again for your advice and suggestions, Steve 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NailheadBob Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 (edited) If you are going to remove engine only, and leave transmission in car, MARK WITH PAINT your flywheel location to your torque converter, so you can mount them back in exact location they were before you removed engine, if you do not you may end up with a vibration, as they were factory balanced. there is a brass fitting in the front middle if intake manifold, it is a "T" fitting (2 WAY) with 2 different sizes in the "T" , and 1/8" NPT that screws into intake manifold, please take a close up photo of it showing the fittings on each end if you can, you will have to remove metal pipe on passenger side of engine for the photo, and the power brake vacuum hose you already have off in one of you photos. I am trying to find a new fitting from Dorman or Edelmann fittings. I also have never seen a cam gear broken like yours. @1957buickjim Have you ever come across NEW brass "T" fitting (2 WAY) in the front of intake manifold with power brakes with Dorman or Edelmann fittings? Thank You in Advance, Bob Edited October 23, 2022 by NailheadBob Add photo (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephenca118 Posted October 23, 2022 Author Share Posted October 23, 2022 Thank you Bob. I will mark the flywheel. I will look for the T you are talking about. Oh, I think I found a picture of the T you are asking about. The cam gear broke because the arm broke off of the fuel pump and fell into the gear, that is my guess anyway although it is weird the arm is also bent, so I am not really sure. Here is a picture of your fitting. If that is the flywheel then I guess I cannot run the motor on my test stand with no ring gear. Anyway, I will pull the motor today and start cleaning it and changing out the freeze plugs. Thanks again, Steve 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephenca118 Posted October 24, 2022 Author Share Posted October 24, 2022 Got the engine out, was not too big of a deal, not sure why Motors said to remove the transmission in order to remove the motor. Next is scraping off the crud, power wash, removing freeze plugs and flushing the water jackets, removing the pan then checking a couple of caps, see how they look. Broke the temp sender that was froze in the head, I think that was the only casualty. Guess I will be looking for a gauge. Oh, can anyone tell me what that item is in the first picture? Wire from it goes into the blower motor. Sits above the heater. Thank you for all the input, oh, I marked the flexplate. Steve 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1957buickjim Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 (edited) The item on the top of the housing in the first picture is the heater motor resistor. Edited October 24, 2022 by 1957buickjim (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancemb Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Stephenca118 said: Got the engine out, was not too big of a deal, not sure why Motors said to remove the transmission in order to remove the motor. Next is scraping off the crud, power wash, removing freeze plugs and flushing the water jackets, removing the pan then checking a couple of caps, see how they look. Broke the temp sender that was froze in the head, I think that was the only casualty. Guess I will be looking for a gauge. Oh, can anyone tell me what that item is in the first picture? Wire from it goes into the blower motor. Sits above the heater. Thank you for all the input, oh, I marked the flexplate. Steve Where are you located? I have a bunch of new engine parts I don't think I'll ever need if you're going to do a rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephenca118 Posted October 24, 2022 Author Share Posted October 24, 2022 Thank you Lance, I am in SE WA state, Kennewick. I appreciate the information and I will let you know what I find. Have a great week, Steve 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drhach Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 What's stopping you from pulling that ring gear and putting it on the flex plate? That would allow you to start it on a run stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NailheadBob Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 (edited) Great progress, I love all the photos, The ring gear is part of the the front transmission pump which is like the whole torque converter, possibly would not clear the engine stand?, the front cover of the torque converter is just flat except for the front nub/hub. While you have oil pan off, look at vacuum pump, it is attached to oil pump, you can take vacuum pump off and apart and watch for drive coupling (small piece between vacuum pump and oil pump) to inspect vanes and any scoring of parts inside, this is to aid vacuum wipers, BUT when it fails oil gets into vacuum system and car belches blue smoke out exhaust real bad and car burns a lot of oil. Many late 50's GM cars went to the junkyard back in the day as they thought engine was shot. 2 ways to fix, 1) you can replace vacuum pump (maybe Lance may have one of these, as they are hard to come by) 2) you can plug off with rubber plug on metal pipe/fitting on passenger side of engine block area. If you do take vacuum pump apart, please photo the inside of pump and the vanes of the pump. Thank you in advance, Bob Edited October 24, 2022 by NailheadBob Add photo (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smartin Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 Make sure you clock the flex plate in the same location as it was when you took it out, in relation to the torque converter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 I thought one had to clock the flywheel as to its factory position on the motor and the torque converter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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