Jump to content

KAD36

Members
  • Posts

    578
  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    5

Everything posted by KAD36

  1. One last item I use is a headlight wired up with alligator clips as a test tool, I use this to test wiring to see if it can carry amps to operate circuits. I have found voltage and little to no amps cause problems like this. Steve Yeah - better said. ——————————————^
  2. Well, thats a pretty general description on cold, hot, any mods, and few observables so heres some ideas. Thermally related electrical issues can be tough to pinpoint. Am assuming that engine has a generator and points (analog) regulator on it, and if memory serves power windows and power seats run off the same relay and circuit breaker, and thats a thermal breaker and resets itself when the fault is gone. Maybe someone can check me on that. If the switch or relay aren't stuck on causing a motor "stall" condition to trip the breaker, as suggested above, another possibility is a poor (high resistance due to corrosion over time) connection someplace such that a high current load will have just enough power "source" to appear to work at cold (when charging system is putting out the highest voltage to the battery - have seen well over 15V on mine) and then as the regulator compensates for hotter conditions and lowers the voltage the high resistance of that poor connection robs power that would normally drive a high current load, like a motor, to work. The places on my car notorious for that are where there is that flat blade/socket connection in the wiring harness - they are encased in this brittle clear plastic connector that sometimes shatters when you mess with it to make it more better. So my thoughts are: 1) Visual the current gauge - does it behave any different at hot or cold when the windows are operating? If a relay or switch is stuck, the expectation is it would stay discharging after you let go of the switch until the breaker opened. The gauge behavior would also give you a clue as to if there was a hard short pulling more current at hot (it would show more discharge), or just a lousy connection (maybe not much of a drop at all). Although if temp related it would seem to be the relay under the hood being stuck or high resistance across the contact points when closed vs the switch in the door would be more suspect. 2) If you have a schematic, visual all the mechanical connections you can see or find easily before tearing the door apart - any of the connection points discussed above, the wiring to the breaker, perhaps the impedance across the relay, clean up all the connections. 3) Does your car have power seats? If they run through the same circuit (too lazy to get my book), and the seats behave the same, then it suggests a common failure upstream of the seats/window controls and motors. 4) After that next step would probably be to pull off the door panel and get a volt/current multimeter on the switches and the motors to see what is going on. Just thought to give you some things to try before pulling interior panels off Good luck let us know how it goes
  3. What a terrific story! Thanks for a great read. Glad your hard work and perseverance paid off.
  4. Seems the Special and Century 2 door HT have these pieces while the larger Super and Roadmaster have slightly different cutting and do not have these extra pieces. Shazam. I looked at the 50/70 series pic. Sorry bout that. Learn somethin new every day. Let’s see who chimes in…..
  5. Another bit of failure info that may help - two of the failures the secondary resistance failed hardcover open. The last failed at hot measuring well over 150 k ohms on the secondary and 8.5k ohms room temp (12 v system). If your misfire is at hot only consider a secondary resistance check to see how well it holds spec at hot w everything disconnected at the coil, understanding resistance check is only a quick DIY indicator and not a comprehensive coil test. Even with newer wires, the routing to ensure no induced crossfire between adjacent wires, integrity of primary wiring between coil and distributor and other “easy” things should be considered first.
  6. Went through 3 coils in 2 years. Misfire at hot idle and no misfire at cold or during warmup was early indicator. Cars primary and secondary circuits all checked out ok. The original delco coil was filled with a thick oil as are most today. Maybe I just had a run of bad luck but an epoxy filled one mounted horizontal so far works fine. It seems people are successful if a newer oil filled coil is mounted vertically. Or use an older made in USA one if mounted horizontal. Cannot explain it, just sharing results of my research. I wasn’t comfortable running long distance with a 40 or 70 year old used coil as the primary ignition source and was tired of getting stuck.. Maybe carrying a box of old ones and playing swaptronics would be smarter lol.
  7. I installed 2 carpets in 2drht over the years, most recently a Daytona weave about 3 yrs ago through an ACC dealer, and don’t recall any pieces like that - maybe for a sedan? Is that an actual or representative picture? FWIW ACC site didn’t show those pieces. Be curious what you find out
  8. My money would be on the starter switch and the wires going to it. Have had that exact problem with the passage that the check ball rides in getting gummed up, as well as the contacts inside getting dulled. With the power off or battery disconnected you can also push the pedal down and measure the resistance across the carb switch. It’s easiest to pull the carb off, disassemble the switch clean the contacts and the passages, don’t loose the shims and put it back on. x2 on the power wire to the switch (yellow or pink) being unfused and burning the wiring harness - PITA to fix. Also check the connector ends where they crimp onto the wire. The wires on mine got brittle and started breaking off at the crimp points, had to replace them.
  9. Good point. One thing appears consistent. The guy on the right is overdue for a beer, hand on hip, customer being a PITA, Friday 430….
  10. Yes it would help temporarily, I’d be concerned about point life long term because my coils primary is low resistance and it needs a current limiting (ballast) resistor on there while running. Thats an interesting situation on your car - am assuming you have no issues with point life or cold starting? Might the coil on your car have an internal primary resistance of 3 ohms or more instead of 1.5 ohms and doesn’t need an external resistor? Incidentally 3 ohms is he total max resistance in the shop manual for the primary plus ballast! When the charging system (generator and mechanical regulator) is good and hot (underhood - hood closed) with a mild electrical load at idle (like sitting at a long red light or a chain of red lights) it will dip down to 12.2-12.4 volts and thats where my problems seem to start - any stray losses rob voltage from the coil. Just a few tenths of a volt higher at the battery and it totally goes away like the Dodge in the Hemmings article. Or if the hood is open so the regulator doesn’t get as hot, the problem is minimized. Otherwise normal op voltage is around 13+ volts, 14.9 max cold, zero issues. Seems as long as the primary always sees about 6 bolts or more there’s enough secondary voltage to fire the plugs. I have 2 aftermarket regulators and a very old Delco junkyard one on the shelf and not one of those aftermarkets regulate even closely the same over temperature with a good battery - understanding charging rate is lowered as temperature goes up - the one in the car now was the best of the bunch. One of them actually discharged the battery when it got to normal operating temp at highway speeds with no electrical load, and that might be 10 miles down the road, but worked fine when cool and couldn’t be returned. If a new reason is needed to drink a lot of beer try figuring out how to adjust mechanical regulators without blowing something up. Those spring mount tabs are way super touchy. The original-original regulator busted (and also is on the shelf) and had adjustment screws, which are rare as hens teeth, to adjust the spring pressure.
  11. Primary Ignition Resistance tolerances - Hemmings Check out last 2 paragraphs which may help explain the situation. “The problem that the automobile collector deals with today is out-of-specification ballast circuits that look correct but that have the wrong resistance or skew greatly under high heat load in the engine compartment. An ignition coil that has the wrong internal resistance often exacerbates this condition and leads to a poor-running engine for which you can find nothing wrong. ” Tried one more test today just because it was bugging me Long story short, the Delco OEM original ballast was carefully disassembled completely and every metal to metal contact point polished until I got it down to solid 1.8 ohms, lowest it could get, about .25 ohms less than before. Measured the whole primary circuit impedance and voltages and al values were as expected with no stray impedance that could unexpectedly drop the primary voltage. Monitoring battery voltage when under hood temp was good and hot, both in N and D at idle with some electrical loads on/off and playing with the idle speed to dip the battery voltage, the engine used to sputter and die at about 12.5 volts unless I jumped across the ballast quick enough or turned off a big electrical load like the headlights or AC compressor and blower then it would smooth right back out. Now with the lower ballast value after cleaning it just runs rough down to 12.03 volts but doesnt die. Also, coil primary impedance went up as expected from 1.4 ohms cold to 1.7 ohms hot, further aggravating the situation. So looking for a ballast closer to factory low end spec of 1.4 ohms. Alternative would be to improve charging at low rpm but not re-opening that can of worms with hit or miss mechanical regulators and playing the bend the tab game. In my road kit I have a spare delco ballast thats 2 years old that is 2 ohms, also out of spec, so that would just make the problem even worse. Have a couple parts coming into NAPA and will measure them Monday.
  12. Not often no, however If by this you mean the coil wire arc jumps direct to the block during the tests that’s similar to how the Napa coil was configured for 2 weeks with no resistive element from coil secondary to rotor, cap, plug, block. Interesting. Update from the field: Key on, engine off, no crank, points closed: batt 12.5; 5.4 volts across primary, 7 volts across ballast. Engine idle: 13.5 batt, 3.5 across primary, 4 across ballast. Not really pure DC when running but for those interested. Wire measurements all 8 under 1 ohm. .3 to .8 ohms measured from inside of cap brass lug to end of plug boot 143k ohm rotor produced a weak spark by eyeballing it. I tossed it and kept the 2 dead short ones. Cleaned up the used 12k ohm rotor put that in and the resistor 85 auto lite plugs in with the old epoxy coil. Smooth idle no high speed miss fires right up The search for in spec spare parts continues
  13. Fair point Bernie - you are right there are other factors to consider and that’s beyond my math. Not having a way to measure the plug voltages my thought was a rough order of magnitude relationship and the KISS principle. What do you think of a 150k ohm variation in the SAME parts? That impedance seems like a clue since its 10x more than a resistor plug, which is on the order of 5K ohms plus 2 feet of resistor wires which would be on the order of 10k ohms. Doesnt make sense to me why the resistance was eliminated in the new aftermarket rotors ( unless it was a tech oversight like the Napa epoxy coil) and if that could affect the coil reliability? I have a 57 distributor set up but now am hesitant to drop it in until this all makes a little more sense. Maybe just pop in resistor plugs keep the rotor and let it go. Don’t want to overthink it!
  14. In 57 the 10k resistor was taken out of the distributor rotor. Who has a 57 knows where that secondary ignition resistance went - if anywhere.? Were resistor plugs or wires specified? What do you run?
  15. You know this reminds me of the engine fiasco. The spec tolerance was exceeded on individual parts but when connected as a system the error budgets all happened to fall within total system spec. If in the day there were non resistor plugs and solid wires in these cars and the rotor carried the system secondary resistance of 10K would that suggest the secondary current to the plugs was 2.5 - 4 amps assuming the secondary plug voltage was 25000 - 40000 volts? Even with no resistance in the rotor, and running newer resistor plugs and suppression wires I bet the typical resistance of any one line from coil to plug would be in the 15-25k ohm range which would put the current in the 1-3 amp range? Translation: at idle with less than 12 volts feeding the ballast resistor and hence the primary, I bet my 143k ohm rotor if used would limit current and produce a really weak spark being 10x higher resistance than found in a typical system, and the .5 ohm dead short rotors when not using resistor plugs or suppression wires were probably what fried that Napa coils secondary in 2 weeks with too high a current. And the 55 correct impedance rotor was on the prior “newer” blue streak coil and that coil just broke after almost a year - not due to electrical overload - but due to current day workmanship standards and being oil filled and mounted on its side. Where the older oil filled coils (or present day epoxy) can better tolerate horizontal on engine mounting as evidenced as coming from the factory that way. That’s the current hypothesis. More to come. Go ahead, start shooting.
  16. The two on the left were purchased within the past 2 years. They measure .5 and .6 ohms. Like a dead short. The .6 ohm one is in the car. The two on the RIGHT are older ones - the 12.7 K ohm one is very old and out of the 55 distributor with many miies on it but still works ok. The 143K one is new and never installed. These two were purchased probably 10 years ago. You can see the carbon resistor is almost potted in the newer ones and inserted in the two older ones. These are all standard motor parts. The spec says 10K ohms. Hmmm my hip shot reaction is run resistor plugs if using the zero ohm rotors and solid non suppressor wires because the secondary is probably pumping out a lot of current with the low impedance rotor…. Wonder what other brands for rotors measure? More to come…..
  17. I’m gettin there Texas I’m getting there…. Am busy doing a whole lot of nothing and just left NAPA with a corp rep. Apparently a population of the IC676s are marked wrong. He will be getting back with me in next day or so. This is gettin good.
  18. You just love giving out work assignments don’t you LOL Will check the voltage drop across the resistor Chris.
  19. Hi Bernie - been getting about 5+ years out of NAPA batteries, they seem good. I have the idle up a bit so they don’t discharge. That’s 2 votes to go ring out all the wires. Yay.
  20. All good points Willie thanks - - non suppression solid core wires - soldered at the ends. I only measured the resistance of the coil wire because it was common path to all the other wires I can spot check the other wires. I did visually inspect the wires when I rebuilt it and the ends were all intact. Suppression wires would have higher resistance. - non resistor plugs. Only resistor in the system is in the rotor, same as factory set up. Suppose I could go to resistor plugs. The Autolites you recommended to me are in the old 55 heads. - no “ticking” on AM radio, staticky though but thats been a consistent behavior since like forever - Cap has brass inserts - I have an NOS stock of the older ones that I use, same as points. suppose I could pull the cap leave the wires on and ring it out to each plug. Seems there would be a miss or a hitch at idle, and this thing idles like a swiss watch. - NOW - something you did just key me onto is what might the variation of resistance on the carbon block be that is on the rotor. From the book: Radio Suppressor and Capacitor. A 10,000 ohm resistor is built into the distributor rotor so that it is unnecessary to install a suppressor on the high tension cable when a radio is installed. A capacitor is mounted on the side of 1955 Buick ignition coil and connected to the positive (battery) terminal of coil when a radio is installed. Most of the articles on reliable, horizontally mounted oil filled coils are 7-15 years old. My suspicious is that was when there were still ones made in the US that had more consistent workmanship than the overseas ones of today.
  21. Thanks Ben - good to hear from you - is that a separate cylindrical coil and mounted which way? Thanks Chris - I almost got the Standard but went with the blue streak because I thought it was Standards better product. Am wondering if these days that may not be the case. I considered a Delco but it looks like all the other China junk. Perhaps it depends what shop overseas does the windings. Lots of articles to read, some conflicting, some also experiencing low service life. Seems to point to overseas vs on shore workmanship. May have to call to get specifics. Post 34 and last 3 paragraphs of post 40 in a simple format sums up all I’ve read so far: https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/mounting-a-coil-sideways-yes-or-not-recommended.688224/page-2 My intent really is to ensure there isn’t another gremlin someplace else in the car that I may overlooking - and don’t want to ruin the old coils.
  22. Been going through ignition coils pretty quick lately, like 3 in the past 2 years, all with different failures. Summary: BVD brand oil filled - lasted 1 year, left me stranded. Started cutting out at hot until car wouldn’t start at all. Ever. Didn’t measure the impedance. Got so mad I threw it in the woods behind the house. Blue Streak oil filled - lasted almost a year. This was also on the second rebuild and with a newly rebuilt 56 distributor, so new condenser, rotor etc. Engine cuts out when hot. runs fine when cold. Meets primary and secondary impedance spec at cold, open secondary hot. NAPA Echlin UC12 oil filled - lasted about 2 weeks. Almost left me stranded. Car had weak spark ran at fast idle only. Started sputtering at idle. Secondary opened up to 120K ohms all temperatures. Measured 7.5K ohms when it was working. In each case, I went back to my trusty Blue Streak High Energy HD epoxy filled Made in the USA because its says so stamped on the bottom coil from 1983 that has fired this car for over 60,000 miles and man does that thing make a freakin intimidating blue spark at the plug. 1.4 ohms on the primary and 10.1K ohms on the secondary. Either that or the original Delco that was on the car from the mid 60s still works good - 1.5 on the primary, 8K on the secondary. That Delco one might be tar filled, not sure, but it doesn’t slosh around. The only reason I am wanting to replace the coil is preventative maintenance and having a new coil might be smarter than driving around with a 35+ year old coil, rather keep it as a road kit spare. Huh - imagine that. The coil wire is good at .32 ohms non suppression wire, the ballast is good at 1.8 ohms, the dwell is 27 deg, the plug gaps are all good at .035, and based on math I would anticipate the primary voltage is in the high 5 to low 6 volt range, not enough to overwhelm the secondary and cause them to overheat, the condensers, rotors and other distributor components have all been swapped by swapping out the 55 distributor with a 56 distributor to match the new 56 engine so even the resistor in the rotor was technically exchanged. A simple check on both condensers was done to make sure they were not breaking down when hot. I cannot seem to find a common mode failure other than some articles that suggest that todays not made in the USA oil filled coils do not survive well horizontally, even if the terminals are rotated to the 3 and 9 o’clock positions to keep the coils cooler and immersed in the oil. My research also suggested if you need to mount a coil horizontally, get the epoxy filled one, they can be mounted in any orientation, they will not short out over time and are made for higher vibration. Huh?? Yet I see some folks mounting oil filled coils horizontally and zero issues. The original coil, per the shop manual, say they were oil filled. Perhaps the newer primary/secondary mountings in the oil filled design are not as robust to vibration mounted horizontally as the old ones? Anyone have any experience in this epoxy vs oil filled part or could suggest something else to check - or a brand thats been recently working well for them? They sort of all look like the same made in China ones - the Pertronix flamethrower and Accel look a little different. I will go out soon and measure the voltage on the primary when its running but don’t expect it to be wildly off from my calculations. BTW NAPA advertises an epoxy filled coil for an extra 20 bucks but when you buy it guess what, its not epoxy filled its oil filled. Same 3 yr 36000 mile warranty as the UC12 oil filled. Joe counter dude told me I was paying 20 bucks for “more quality.” “See mister, you’re getting more quality”. Really? Where - the paint? They were the same coil with the same markings with the same warranty with a 20 dollar price difference! “Oh yeah - good eye mister” Say - hold this wire for me, this is how more quality is supposed to work. Grrrrr. Worst case, I’ll buy a name brand epoxy coil and run it just to see what the heck happens because now I’m really curious what’s going on. Thanks for any input.
  23. Yeah the shaft stays with the gear. Easier in 56 with a rag joint. Get the steering wheel and all that jazz off the interior. If you’re just trying to pull the gear as a unit put that thing back together from your prior photo and pull the pitman arm and unbolt the gear from the frame. I can’t recall off the top of my head where the steering column (jacket) loosens from the gear - think it is that clamp in your photo just to the left of the wires. Take off the column clamp under the dash. Get your beer muscles warmed up, and lift the gear straight up so the column tips down in the interior and pull it out of the column. When you are ready to put it back in a 2x4 on blankets on the fenders with the gear hanging from a rope helps if you are solo trying to get it back into the column. Went through this 3 times, once for the money and twice fixing lessons from the school of hard knocks (horn connection). On the Phillips head screws, mine were just about stripped after failed attempts with biggest screwdriver in my shop. That tool Emtee shows above worked great to shock it loose, and then go to Harbor Freight and get one of these, put an adjustable wrench around the shaft, push in on the end with everything you got to keep it seated and it will work its way out. Trying to recall where I got the new screws from, may have been on a tri-five site. Good luck. ** Check out Danchuck 55-57 Chev door hinge to pillar screw set item 970
  24. Wow Lamar - been lurking and had not realized its been 20 years since replacing those seals. Thanks for BTT. FWIW - seals have been bone dry since with many miles put on since replacing. The diff fluid was changed to 85-140. Peep hole drilled in torque tube threaded for a screw to check for seepage. Zero issues.
  25. My thought is the U shaped piece on the hood that contacts the L bracket on the firewall can provide additional electrical ground to the hood to attenuate ignition noise to the radio. It just rests on that L bracket - theres a shiny wear mark on mine where they contact. Maybe a cleaner connection than through the hinges. Just a W.A.G.
×
×
  • Create New...