Ross82nd Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 It currently has a 5572654B 403 77-79 motor in it and I have a donor with a 396021F 455 68-72. My question is would it make the car more valuable with the 455 motor in it? The car has a new interior minus the dash. It is an automatic, Has nearly everything still factory on it except the trans and motor of course. The body is in great shape, just needs the body panels professionally aligned for proper gaps ect. It currently runs great! Just wondering if it would be worth the effort? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lump Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 Serious collectors often prefer cars which are as correct-as-original as possible. If your 455 has correct casting number, production date codes, etc, then it will certainly be more desirable to some folks. But take your time with this decision, as there are many important complexities here. More later...it's a very busy week! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trulyvintage Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, Ross82nd said: It currently has a 5572654B 403 77-79 motor in it and I have a donor with a 396021F 455 68-72. My question is would it make the car more valuable with the 455 motor in it? The car has a new interior minus the dash. It is an automatic, Has nearly everything still factory on it except the trans and motor of course. The body is in great shape, just needs the body panels professionally aligned for proper gaps ect. It currently runs great! Just wondering if it would be worth the effort? Click Here To See Where I Am Today What My Actual Customers Say Click Here Congratulations ! The Olds 442 is (in my opinion) a better functional daily driver muscle car than a Moparts car of the period. They are in short supply & underappreciated in market value. Did you buy it to drive it & enjoy ? Then put your money into making it more reliable to do just that. Did you buy it as an investment or to flip it to make money ? As noted above - a survivor example as close original as possible is a better choice. I recently transported this 1956 Packard Patrician Roller Project from Athol, Massachusetts to Morton, Mississippi A documented two driver vehicle that stayed in the same area since new. Full power including power door locking button for all doors by driver under the dash. Fully original - stored under cover - no rust to speak of. A True Survivor ! Enjoy what you drive - Drive what you enjoy ! Jim Click Here To See Where I Am Today What My Actual Customers Say Click Here Click Here To See Vehicles I Have Hauled Edited September 21, 2022 by Trulyvintage (see edit history) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Skelly Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 All of the 1968 442s came with a 400 engine. The Turnpike Cruiser option ran on regular fuel and had a 2-barrel carburetor and automatic transmission. It was rated at 290 gross horsepower. The standard engine with an automatic was rated at 325 gross horsepower, and 350 with a manual transmission. The W-30 was rated at 360 horsepower. All of these used premium fuel. In short, neither a 455 nor 403 is correct for this car if you are trying to restore it as close to original as possible. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Bond Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 In 1968, the Hurst Olds had the 455, but only 515 were made, so it is not a commonly found vehicle. Only you can decide if it is "worth the effort." That of course depends on what you intend to do with the car. Terry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketraider Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 Right now I think you're better off leaving the 403 in there as it will be way more tolerant of currently available fuels. It won't be a barnburner but is a great engine for a fun cruiser. A 71-2 455 will have lower compression and might run ok on pump gas, but a 68-70 with 10.5 cr will not like it. Read up on the 68-69 G-block 400 and you'll understand why it no longer has its original engine. G400 would have made an excellent truck engine but with its long stroke not really suited for musclecar duty. Our AACA Oldsmobile Forums are criminally underutilized but visit www.classicoldsmobile.com and you'll find a lot of information and knowledge. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 The G-block 400 that came in the 1968-69 442s was not Oldsmobile's best design. It's a seriously undersquare motor (3.890" bore, 4.250" stroke). Lots of them were blown up early and replaced with 455s as a result. What should be done to this particular car depends on what you plan to do with it. If your question about value is because you plan to flip it, the 455 will make the car worth more. If you plan to keep it and enjoy it, "value" shouldn't be your first concern. A lot depends on what was done to install the 403. A tall deck 455 uses different intake and exhaust manifolds, and depending on what's on the 403 now, potentially different accessory brackets and pulleys. Sourcing all those parts isn't difficult, but it's an additional cost. Yes, the 455 will be more fun to drive. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pfeil Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 If Glenn and Joe had check boxes on their responses, I would check them all! From what I understand the 403 can be made pretty robust and looking at it on paper it's got a great B/S ratio. The only thing I don't particularly like is it's siamesed cylinders, but for the street and even short burst drag racing there are no problems in that regard. Like Glenn says, " I'd keep it"! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketraider Posted September 22, 2022 Share Posted September 22, 2022 Tell us exactly what year the 455 is. There's a machined pad left front side of the engine, below the head. It has a code stamped in that has a VIN derivative of the car the engine was originally installed in. Example 39Mxxxxxx 3=Oldsmobile, 9=1969, M=Lansing assembly, xxxxxx=sequential car serial number. You can also look at the head casting codes, but heads could have been swapped. Big-block Olds use a letter code which you'll find to the left of spark plug hole. 68-9 use (mostly) C, 70 (mostly) E, 71 G or GA, 72 H. If you find Js it's a 73-76. They're not as horrible as people make them out to be, but they're designed more for emissions than power. If you find D or F head castings you've moved into a different realm of BBO. Be very careful with Fs as some very crafty people have turned Es into Fs, but the actual head number above the center exhaust ports tells the truth. I get a vibe you're waiting for someone to tell you to stick the 455 in it. If that's what you ultimately want, then by all means do it. With its original G400 probably long gone, a non-numbers-matching 403 or 455 beats the hell out of somebody sticking an LS engine in it- which seems to be an ever more common fate for any and all GM musclecars.🙄 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pfeil Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 "a non-numbers-matching 403 or 455 beats the hell out of somebody sticking an LS engine in it- which seems to be an ever more common fate for any and all GM musclecars.🙄" The haunting words that every loyal Buick, Olds, Pontiac and even these days Cadillac fan hates to hear! Ross82nd, please don't turn your Oldsmobile into a Chevrolet 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 5 hours ago, rocketraider said: Tell us exactly what year the 455 is. There's a machined pad left front side of the engine, below the head. It has a code stamped in that has a VIN derivative of the car the engine was originally installed in. Example 39Mxxxxxx 3=Oldsmobile, 9=1969, M=Lansing assembly, xxxxxx=sequential car serial number. I'll add the illustration: 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalowed Bill Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 Just one old man's opinion. Since what your seem to be focused on is value and not drivability I'll try to keep to that in mind. Every time an owner makes an alteration in a collector car, the process changes the audience for that car. The farther away from original one gets the more polarized the audience becomes. In other words, an original car has an almost unlimited appeal. Once an alteration is made an owner has lost the purist. What the owner has now is a car subject to the whims of the street rod set. If an owner has chosen well, he may find a buyer who likes the car and is willing to pay over the market value for a stock, original, car. IMHO if your car is truly original your best bet at maintaining value, is to clean and detail the car, and use it. Notice I said maintaining value. This can be a tough market for a collector car today. With the cost of restoring or altering, almost any car today, will leave an owner underwater quickly. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC38dls Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 Is this thread another one hit wonder? No response by OP since he posted Tuesday. dave s 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketraider Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 The siamesed bore thing was a way to get big cubic inches out of the small-block Oldsmobile and Chevrolet engines, which was needed to haul those early 70s GM barges around without getting into big-block fuel consumption. Didn't make any sense to me then and still doesn't, feeding 400ci is feeding 400 ci no matter the physical size of the engine, but that's the explanation I got some 50 yr ago. My experience has been they tend to run warm (which was actually some benefit for emission control) and neither likes an overbore. Seen many SBC 400 bore right into the water jackets with even a .030 overbore. Don't even think about .060 on a production block; aftermarkets will take it. Oldsmobile's windowed main web design didn't really help as there was less metal to absorb excess heat and transfer it to coolant. Plus it weakened crank main bearing support. I guess the thought was 400+ cid wouldn't have to work or stress as hard, since the 403 made good torque, and torque is what got them fat-bottomed girls moving. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketraider Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 12 minutes ago, SC38dls said: Is this thread another one hit wonder? No response by OP since he posted Tuesday. dave s I thought post 9 might have drawn him back into the discussion. Mebbe not. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pfeil Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 1 hour ago, rocketraider said: The siamesed bore thing was a way to get big cubic inches out of the small-block Oldsmobile and Chevrolet engines, which was needed to haul those early 70s GM barges around without getting into big-block fuel consumption. Didn't make any sense to me then and still doesn't, feeding 400ci is feeding 400 ci no matter the physical size of the engine, but that's the explanation I got some 50 yr ago. My experience has been they tend to run warm (which was actually some benefit for emission control) and neither likes an overbore. Seen many SBC 400 bore right into the water jackets with even a .030 overbore. Don't even think about .060 on a production block; aftermarkets will take it. Oldsmobile's windowed main web design didn't really help as there was less metal to absorb excess heat and transfer it to coolant. Plus it weakened crank main bearing support. I guess the thought was 400+ cid wouldn't have to work or stress as hard, since the 403 made good torque, and torque is what got them fat-bottomed girls moving. Seemed crazy to me after the end of the 455 eras that GMC would use the 403 in those GMC motor homes, but they did. Your average 3800 lb. car is no problem. A Mark 4 would be my choice. If you are into road racing/ Grand touring, that's another story where the SBC 400 and the 403 just can't take the load for extended periods of track time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross82nd Posted October 19, 2022 Author Share Posted October 19, 2022 Sorry for the one post and long delay. Thank you all for all of your thoughtful responses. I've been doing some research and joe_padavano, the numbers indicate the 455 is a 69 which is closer to the 68 year of the 442. Its in a later 70s donor cutlass. It will probably need different headers and possibly different pully assembly because of the size in comparison to the 403 that is currently in it. The 403 is a 78-79. I think regardless I want to pull the 455 out of the donor whenever I get the time and spruce it up a bit to either to the swap or to sell. The 403 in the car currently does run great but has a tick. Not sure if its exhaust or a valve. The interior of the car is mint (recently replaced) besides the dash and it does have a radio with wires ran to add simple 6x9 speakers to the rear deck. The body needs some realignment of the panels and who ever put the chrome trim around didn't do a very precise or good job. I think I will spend some time this winter to fix some small detail things and possible have a body shop work on the gaps in the panels and see. We do enjoy the car and its def a looker, sounds great minus the tick that only I seem to notice. Again I apologize for not getting back to the comments earlier. Two small kids and full time school eats up weeks like days. Please feel free to comment with any more tips. The other issue is I live in Illinois and though I have the tools to do the job I don't currently have the workspace. I may need to find someone local with a shop I could use to do the work when I have the time. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross82nd Posted October 19, 2022 Author Share Posted October 19, 2022 Oh and please have no worries. I will not be putting any Chevy motor anywhere near this beauty. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross82nd Posted October 19, 2022 Author Share Posted October 19, 2022 Some More Pics 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC38dls Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 Where in Illinois? I lived in the far western suburbs most of my life and may be able to help with space and guys to help. I’m in SC now or would let you use part of my old barn. dave s 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 (edited) Nice looking car, but the grille emblem needs to go up a couple of rows on the grille. This is too low. Edited October 19, 2022 by joe_padavano (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketraider Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 Purty!😎 You'll get good advice here and on classicoldsmobile.com, and depending where you are in Illinois the Illinois Valley Olds Club is another resource. www.ivocolds.com On that tick- look for a cracked flexplate or a loose flexplate bolt. I know of several ticking 403s that that was the cause of the tick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAKerry Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 2019-04-23_09-05-42 by Kerry Grubb, on Flickr 2019-05-02_10-28-52 by Kerry Grubb, on Flickr 2019-05-06_06-56-15 by Kerry Grubb, on Flickr 2019-05-06_06-56-47 by Kerry Grubb, on Flickr Dash can be repaired in place. A bit messy but very possible. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted October 20, 2022 Share Posted October 20, 2022 15 hours ago, TAKerry said: Dash can be repaired in place. A bit messy but very possible. How did you address the grain; or is it only noticeable up-close? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAKerry Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 When doing the entire dash with the filler its virtually impossible to replicate the grain. Just before the colour coat I use a SEM texture spray which gives it texture but not 'grain'. It turns out really nice, and much better than a crappy dash. The cost for a do it yourself repair is pennies, compared to thousands of dollars for a professional job. For a patch I have seen where a piece of the dash is used as a 'stamp' to put the grain into the still wet filler. The results I saw were not that good. I have been wanting to experiment with a vacuum press and a special covering, just havent had the time. I think there are pros and cons to either technique, Pro vs. DIY. If my car was worth 100k I would send the dash out. For a driver, I think the filler is fine. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketraider Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 5 hours ago, TAKerry said: If my car was worth 100k I would send the dash out. You ain't been watching the right tv auctions!😛 As aggravating as a 1968-9 Olds A-body dash is to R&R, fixing the crack in place might be the way to go. Something as simple as a clock or radio will make you say dirty words! and reach for merthiolate and band-aids! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAKerry Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 3 minutes ago, rocketraider said: You ain't been watching the right tv auctions!😛 As aggravating as a 1968-9 Olds A-body dash is to R&R, fixing the crack in place might be the way to go. Something as simple as a clock or radio will make you say dirty words! and reach for merthiolate and band-aids! It is a major operation to remove the dash from a second gen f body (firebird/camaro). I had the one out with my 77, too much work so I did the 79 in place. Just tape stuff off and some plastic and you should be fine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross82nd Posted October 24, 2022 Author Share Posted October 24, 2022 rocketraider We live in Antioch in northern illinois. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketraider Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 Living in that area you can work with IVOC or the Oldsmobile Club of Wisconsin www.oldsclubofwis.com . They're both great groups. There's several AACA groups in the Greater Chicago area too, so you should be able to find friends and parts sources easy enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross82nd Posted November 2, 2022 Author Share Posted November 2, 2022 Thank you Rocketraider Ill check those recourses out. I appreciate all the feedback! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross82nd Posted June 10, 2023 Author Share Posted June 10, 2023 Hello Everyone, It's been a while and starting this summer my son asked to be picked up and drive around in our "Race Car" a lot. I think we may have put another two to three hundred miles on the 442 and now the 79 403 that is in it has a large exhaust leak, two valve cover leaks and a head gasket leak on the passenger side. I do now believe the 403 was just put in until the donor 455 could be swapped. Literally no burn outs or tooling around and it seems to have more problems including a large ticking sound coming from the driver side of the engine which is the same side as the main exhaust leak. I've reached out to this group before and I have recieved some great advice. Once again I'm in a pickle! Should I spend some money to either just patch the 403 or do some upgrades to the heads? I think its a rocker or valve issue and the exhause leak is just making it more apparent. I also know there is a cooling issue, even with large aftermarket radiator. Which I've read is common. I have the 455 sitting in a cutless supreme which has no glass, interior, pretty much any value except the mortor which the previous owner who owned both cars says its been rebuilt. I just don't have a garage set up to do the work. I'm a stay at home dad who just finished a degree in AutoCAD and Drafting technology. I'm a retired Army combat Vet who was a Generator Tech with a few tours itching for some more mechanical time. Is there anyone in northern Illinois who knows anyone willing to give some advice or possibly some help in either direction? I live in Antioch IL. I've looked into some local groups but I'm just not sure where or who to reach out to. I'm not looking for a handout or free work at all. Just possibly a place to fix her up and someone with experience who I am willing to pay for help, work and or space. My personal vehicle mechanicle knowledge is with 90's and newer honda motors and sport or literbikes. Any comments or help is appreciated. Thank you all for your time and previous suggestions and help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesR Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 27 minutes ago, Ross82nd said: Should I spend some money to either just patch the 403 or do some upgrades to the heads? I think its a rocker or valve issue and the exhaust leak is just making it more apparent. My personal view is that if diagnosing the engine's condition will involve interpreting the sounds the engine is making, you definitely want to fix or minimize whatever exhaust leaks there are before figuring out the other stuff. I may be paranoid, but I suspect that some sellers of old cars will intentionally create or exacerbate exhaust leaks to conceal ominous engine noises. Not saying that's the deal with your car...just saying that exhaust pulses in the engine bay are going to make hearing other things you need to hear difficult. Very cool '68 Olds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramair Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 I have a lot of experience with 455 engines, I’ve owned 10 cars with that block along with 2 @403. They are great when they are new or rebuilt properly. If I were you I would be concerned about the spare engine with questions like was it really rebuilt? Completely or just top end? Was it put back to stock? Or a mild hot Rod? my concern is someone went hog wild and you will need to sneak into a regional airport to buy AVGAS, another issue if it has a real hot cam you may not have enough vacuum to operate your power brake booster. Now that I said some things that might scare you let me suggest a game plan, why not test run the engine? Sounds like the engine is in a test stand already and not knowing what shape the other car is perhaps it can be a dyno of sorts if you can drive it. If it has not run in awhile you will have to change oil, take out plugs and squirt some oil and hook up a separate small fuel tank with new gas. No shortcuts, keep a fire extinguisher handy. Naturally you would not know what or if any components where changed, but you can see if it smokes out the tailpipe, look for water vapor, pull pcv check for blow by, is the distributor set to factory specs? Does it ping on acceleration , if so you will have to either buy better fuel or retard and lose power. If something does not seem right you really need to find a fellow hobbyist in your area to come out and look and listen , I might be bias but I think the Olds guys for the most part know that engine well and they are great guys. I have enclosed one of my 455 cars. This is a 1968 Toronado, it is one of 111 cars that was ordered with the W-34 cold air induction package it has a .472 lift cam, special distributor and a high stall torque converter. 400 hp and 500# torque. The car weighs 4,600# and it will tear the rubber off the front tires when you tromp on the gas pedal 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross82nd Posted June 10, 2023 Author Share Posted June 10, 2023 Thank you JamesR, I appreciate the advice! I'm ordering gaskets to fix the leaking exhaust first and see how it sounds before I go further. The complete 403 gasket kits are not expensive. I'm also replacing the pluggs. Ramair, that is a sweet ride! My wife purchaced both of the cars together she has heard the 455 run and it was driven here in the donor car its currently in. I will do my due dilligence with it and see for my self how it sounds and runs. It has a crazy loud exhaust on it apparently. Thank you for your advice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moskowitz Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 There are a lot of Olds enthusiasts in Illinois. The Olds Club of America will be a good source for you as I have lost touch with addresses etc. There are also several websites dedicated to A-Body Oldsmobiles and performance engines. Google should help you connect with these folks. As to the AV gas, there has been considerable debate about using it at least around our race car community. At local speed shops we do have 110 available. Just be prepared for the price. I run it in my Olds race car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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