Aftermarket Air Conditioning for my 1960 LeSabre

[KAD36]

Long read: https://forums.aaca.org/topic/296382-1955-in-dash-ac-install/#comment-1629341

 

Just the facts:

- at 9:00 position on photo below, the driver lower corner vent can be seen, passenger has one also, 2 center vents blow through the old speaker grill up and straight back.  There are 4 new vents total. Pics show dash, condenser, evaporator, compressor quasi custom mounted (a Buick5563 design), and factory dual pulley setup.  Note PS pulley is simply mounted “inside out” to line up the third belt.  You could get by with one AC compressor belt if it has enough contact area to the pulley, and folks have done that, but the optics of an empty compressor pulley with no belt on it agitated me.

- I really wanted to retain factory controls to do all the “work”, have the dash look as close to unmolested as possible, and plumb it for OS air, recirc, defrost, cool/heat and factory heat.  Will spare that dialog unless further interested as it was extra work.  My preference was the simple lever/cable/switch setup because it was easier to integrate into the car without creating a second panel with duplicate functions.  OAP offers more modern panels like VA that may be better fit for a 60s layout while keeping everything operationally simple.

 

- If you choose to integrate into your existing control panel/heat/vent system and want your new AC to provide a recirc/outside air/heat/cool/defrost function you just have to think it through and draw it out which is why the operational details were spared.  Believe me, it sucks if you visualize the controls, fit check, bolt it all up, route all the hoses, then the air doesn’t go where or do what you thought it would (I.e. two #2 pencils may not be enough)

 

Now, the VA (or other) integrated heat/cool blending systems do all this nutty airflow control for you and makes it pretty “turn key” for outlet temp control especially if you use their temp control panel.  Maybe someone who has installed one will chime in, as I’m only book smart on it and don’t want to get too far out of my wheelhouse.  Same with an under dash recirc cool only unit - hang the unit, route the refrigerant hoses and wires into the cabin and you’re done.  

 

BTW the evaporator is the square box roughly under the clock hanging down about 4ish inches.  That oval widget stuck under the dash is a magnet mount wireless control for the stereo behind the glovebox door. The evaporator goes up as high as the bottom of the radio dial.  Regarding condenser, get biggest that will reasonably fit your car.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 21, 2022 by KAD36 (see edit history)

[usnavystgc]

Very ingenious @KAD36

[TexRiv_63]

@KAD36 Ken, thanks for all the info, I will read your full thread when I can. I did this type of full VA conversion on my 63 Riviera back in 2007 with heat, air and defrost all hooked to factory outlets on my factory air car. It came out great but definitely a lot of work and total deletion of all OEM system. My initial thought for my '60 was to leave the factory heater and vents in place and just do the underdash cooling unit add on top of them. At this point my car is in storage so I haven't even looked under the dash or hood but I am a long term researcher just getting started.

[KAD36]

You’re welcome. Will be following your research and plans. Good luck!

[TexRiv_63]

I just learned something I did not know about my Buick. I posted on the '60 Buick Facebook page about my A/C conversion thoughts and got a bit of a stop regarding the brackets for compressor mounting. The Alan Grove bracket I previously posted will only fit the 401 - 425 nailhead, NOT the 364 like I have. Apparently the 364 is physically smaller than the 401 which I did not know. According to the comments the only choices are OEM factory air parts or custom. Not good news.

[old-tank]

7 minutes ago, TexRiv_63 said:

I just learned something I did not know about my Buick. I posted on the '60 Buick Facebook page about my A/C conversion thoughts and got a bit of a stop regarding the brackets for compressor mounting. The Alan Grove bracket I previously posted will only fit the 401 - 425 nailhead, NOT the 364 like I have. Apparently the 364 is physically smaller than the 401 which I did not know. According to the comments the only choices are OEM factory air parts or custom. Not good news.

Well then just put a 401 in it.  Or find brackets for the factory air for that 364 which can be adapted for a Sanden style compressor.

[JohnD1956]

2 hours ago, TexRiv_63 said:

I just learned something I did not know about my Buick. I posted on the '60 Buick Facebook page about my A/C conversion thoughts and got a bit of a stop regarding the brackets for compressor mounting. The Alan Grove bracket I previously posted will only fit the 401 - 425 nailhead, NOT the 364 like I have. Apparently the 364 is physically smaller than the 401 which I did not know. According to the comments the only choices are OEM factory air parts or custom. Not good news.

Are you certain of that. Some of those Facebook posts are ripe with misinformation.  Was it some one reputable like Russ Martin or Centerville Auto who posted that?

[KAD36]

Replicate factory 364 bracket or brackets an option? Copy the 401, 364 or 322 design or an aftermarket design and attach points and re-scale/modify as required? 
 

I overthunk my brackets so much that when I saw a buddies design it dawned on me heck that’s not so tough.  Note yellow #2 pencil(s), BFH and a vice in previous post.  Ok maybe a torch to help make bends 😎

[TexRiv_63]

In the vein of the previously mentioned portable electric a/c units, the '60 Buick Facebook group came up with this listing for an underdash a/c kit utilizing an electric powered compressor, solving the bracket and pulley issue. Don't like the way it looks and it is total Chinesium but the idea is intriguing. Has anyone heard of these or used one? I will be researching further.

 

A/C KIT UNIVERSAL UNDER DASH EVAPORATOR 12V 404-000–WITH ELECTRIC COMPRESSOR | eBay

[JohnD1956]

That does look interesting, but what is the electrical requirement?  That electric compressor stands to over tax your generator, so it may be that an upgrade to an alternator will be needed.  

[NTX5467]

Looks interesting, but what is "8 Hour Flame-out"?

[TexRiv_63]

I did more research into the electric compressor. The cheap kit I linked is part of a flood of these kits all over ebay but it would not supply enough btu's for a car like mine. It would also put a strain on the electrical system requiring at least a high output alternator and probably some rewiring. This is part of a switch to electric compressors like those used on hybrids or electric cars for conversions but the larger units require massive voltage and amperage as they are designed to run off the main battery system used to power the motors. Looks like it is not a realistic alternative.

[KAD36]

On 9/26/2022 at 9:05 PM, NTX5467 said:

Looks interesting, but what is "8 Hour Flame-out"?

Runs for 8 hours after car is off?  or maybe 8 hours after you put the fire out it’s good to go again.  Seems risky. 🙄🤣

 

Interesting concept but agree power too high, output too low, accuracy/interpretation of numbers questionable.

[NTX5467]

As the compressor is from an electric vehicle, it might be interesting to see how they keep the 12V battery charged?  As I discovered in an article a week or so ago, a 12V system runs the non-propulsion items and the propulsion batteries run the wheel motor(s).  That way, if the propulsion batteries die, then you can still use OnStar and such.  But what charges the 12V battery?  Finding out THAT might guide the way on using that compressor/system on a non-electric propulsion vehicle.

 

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

[1957buickjim]

I just put AC on my 1957 Estate Rivieria Wagon. I did a hybrid system of 1957 parts and modern components. Engine is a 364 - 250hp 2bbl. I changed the generator to a 90A Powegen look-alike for more electrical service and to support additional loads like AC. Used 1957 Steel tube and fin condenser, 1957 Evaporator assembly (fan, evaporator core, housing, bracketry and fiberglas duct),  had to go with 3 pulleys, since I was running PS and the water pump in addition to now AC. I used a factory 1957 AC dash control and hot gas bypass valve temperature control (1957 correct). Found a 1957 dash vent duct, integrated that into my dash, used a 1957 AC plenum (has different cable and vent operations) as well as made custom dash end vents integrated into my dash. As for the compressor, i went with a Sanden compressor from Old Air Products (R134A), made my own AC lines and used an Old Air reciever/drier. I gathered as many of the factory parts that I could over a couple of years, studied the chassis manual on AC system operation and how it all went together. Bought a book on How to Install AC on you Hot Rod by the owners of Vintage Air. And by golly, I took my time to install it and it actually works! I was quite amazed, but it wasn't that difficult. Here are some pictures of the system (I can provide more pictures if you want):

Edited October 1, 2022 by 1957buickjim
added moren pictures (see edit history)

[JohnD1956]

Nice job! You made those crimp ends on the ac lines yourself?

[NTX5467]

Looks very good!  Congratulations!

 

Some satiny black paint on the compressor and such and somebody, not really knowing what they were looking at, might wonder "I didn't know they had Sanden compressors back then, from the factory?"  Add a correct air cleaner and some might not even notice it!  LOL

 

Great work!

NTX5467

[1957buickjim]

Thanks Guys! I did make those crimps myself. After I got a couple of quotes from a few AC shops locally, it was cheaper to buy a crimping tool set and do it myself. Wasn't too hard at all, which I was suprised at. And even more suprising was that all crimps and lines held 27" of vacuum for 4 hrs, before I charged the system.

 

I had thought about it, regarding the stealth mode AC system, (satin black paint), but with the Wagon, I wanted a little bling, since it is a stealth 57 restomod somewhat. Just subtle changes and mods, not headline grabbing stuff, but stuff that makes you go, Hmmm...

 

I put the chrome air cleaner on for better airflow to the carb, as well as heat management, as the 57 was the last year for an oil bath roasting pan on the carb. But, I have put it on at a few shows to make it look stock. You would be correct with a little black paint and the factory air cleaner on 99% of people would think is was stock.

[TexRiv_63]

14 hours ago, 1957buickjim said:

I just put AC on my 1957 Estate Rivieria Wagon. I did a hybrid system of 1957 parts and modern components. Engine is a 364 - 250hp 2bbl. I changed the generator to a 90A Powegen look-alike for more electrical service and to support additional loads like AC. Used 1957 Steel tube and fin condenser, 1957 Evaporator assembly (fan, evaporator core, housing, bracketry and fiberglas duct),  had to go with 3 pulleys, since I was running PS and the water pump in addition to now AC. I used a factory 1957 AC dash control and hot gas bypass valve temperature control (1957 correct). Found a 1957 dash vent duct, integrated that into my dash, used a 1957 AC plenum (has different cable and vent operations) as well as made custom dash end vents integrated into my dash. As for the compressor, i went with a Sanden compressor from Old Air Products (R134A), made my own AC lines and used an Old Air reciever/drier. I gathered as many of the factory parts that I could over a couple of years, studied the chassis manual on AC system operation and how it all went together. Bought a book on How to Install AC on you Hot Rod by the owners of Vintage Air. And by golly, I took my time to install it and it actually works! I was quite amazed, but it wasn't that difficult. Here are some pictures of the system (I can provide more pictures if you want):

Jim, that is a great looking sanitary installation!  Where did you source the compressor bracket?

[TexRiv_63]

2 hours ago, 1957buickjim said:

Thanks Guys! I did make those crimps myself. After I got a couple of quotes from a few AC shops locally, it was cheaper to buy a crimping tool set and do it myself. Wasn't too hard at all, which I was suprised at. And even more suprising was that all crimps and lines held 27" of vacuum for 4 hrs, before I charged the system.

I also bought a crimper and made my own lines for my 66 Dodge wagon. Fairly inexpensive, easy to use and very effective.

[1957buickjim]

Don,

 

Yes, buying a crimper was a smart idea for sure! And easy to do as well. I sourced all my AN connections from Cold Air Products, out of FL. They had all the connections and hose you need, reasonably priced.

 

For the bracket, I used the universal bracket from Vintage Air. I happened to have the mounting brackets for a 1957 AC Fridgidaire Compressor, but they wouldn't work with the Sanden. I made a template of mouting holes from the original on the universal bracket and then made it. PM me if you would like me to make one for you. 

 

Jim

[TexRiv_63]

On 10/1/2022 at 1:42 PM, 1957buickjim said:

 

For the bracket, I used the universal bracket from Vintage Air. I happened to have the mounting brackets for a 1957 AC Fridgidaire Compressor, but they wouldn't work with the Sanden. I made a template of mouting holes from the original on the universal bracket and then made it. PM me if you would like me to make one for you. 

 

Jim

Thanks Jim, I appreciate it.

[TexRiv_63]

I would appreciate it if anyone could post detailed photos of the factory air underhood setup used on a 1960 Lesabre with a 364 engine showing how the compressor is mounted and what the pulley setup looks like. Also, was the cooling system upgraded to handle a/c, such as a clutch fan, shroud, or oversized radiator? 

 

I would still be VERY interested to hear from anyone who has done this type of aftermarket conversion on a 1960.

[Frank DuVal]

On 10/1/2022 at 10:51 AM, 1957buickjim said:

as well as heat management, as the 57 was the last year for an oil bath roasting pan on the carb.

OK, 'splain this to me. Both air cleaners flow air. Oil Baths are used for extreme dust situations as options even after paper filters became the cheap OEM filter. What's hot?

[EmTee]

I read it as simply comparing an oil-bath air cleaner (esp. the bottom) to an oven roasting pan.  The bottoms of both (eventually) are filled with oil...

[1957buickjim]

Yes, by looks only. It looks like an oven roasting pan. Has nothing to do with actual operation of the oil bath in filtering the air. 

[EmTee]

Better keep your wife out of the garage (and out from under the hood) lest your air cleaner go missing... 

 

Edited October 13, 2022 by EmTee (see edit history)

[drhach]

I think I solved your problem. You're welcome.

 

 

 

[TexRiv_63]

1 hour ago, drhach said:

I think I solved your problem. You're welcome.

 

 

 

Perfect!

[Frank DuVal]

On 10/12/2022 at 9:37 AM, EmTee said:

I read it as simply comparing an oil-bath air cleaner (esp. the bottom) to an oven roasting pan. 

Well, if he said turkey roaster then I would have understood, as all Corvair owners know the fan shroud is the "turkey roaster"!  That Buick roasting pan is just too small for roasting decent sized roasts.

 

Edited October 15, 2022 by Frank DuVal (see edit history)

[Frank DuVal]

Wait, maybe Dave had it upside down, try it this way, but the juices might leak out. 

[rocketraider]

Somehow this came to mind...

 

 

Bet that wood stove makes good biscuits! And with meecy speatballs and a wood stove in the house you'd for sure need A/C!

[60FlatTop]

Some of the topics go on and I just skip over them. Glad I looked this morning.

 

I just checked the cost of a crimper set. At under $300 it would be hard for me to farm the job out. Too many "professionals" have taught me:

 

Poof you're a professional!

 

Cynicism is taught. It is not inspirational.

[TexRiv_63]

51 minutes ago, 60FlatTop said:

Some of the topics go on and I just skip over them. Glad I looked this morning.

 

I just checked the cost of a crimper set. At under $300 it would be hard for me to farm the job out. Too many "professionals" have taught me:

 

Poof you're a professional!

 

Cynicism is taught. It is not inspirational.

I got mine for less than $200 - and it's hydraulic.

[60FlatTop]

I read up a little more and see the handle is a hydraulic pump. They are inexpensive.

 

When I am at an age where I should be turning jobs over to those in business I find myself doing more of my own work and buying specialty tools. I hard part is making simple requests and stating expectations. Making up a hose set seems so simple but if one sat down and made a list of all the precautions that might be necessary you would still be handed the most obvious and unexpected, thoughtless job. In this example I would expect to have any writing on the line to appear linearly 90 degrees in line with the fittings. In the past a request like that would be met with a quizzical look of wonder. Or I would get three yellow Cad fittings and one silver. And, of course, something would be wrong with me.

 

I guess it has always been like that but my dreams of finding it have been thrown against the rocks and shoals of life.

[RiKi5156B]

In 1973 I was stationed at Charleston air force base SC and had just bought a new 73 dodge dart 2dr 318/3 speed no air. The local Montgomery Ward was selling under dash air units so I bought one installed for $49 .At that time I think I was making about $200 a month  so that was quite a bit out of pocket. Thanks to a working wife or I wouldn't have been able to buy it. A/C was needed because of the high temps and humidity there.

 

[JWW427]

Try Danhard Inc.

They make serious AC units for RVs and military vehicles.

I have their trunk mounted unit. They will help you design a custom system.

 

Don't mix low pressure R12 components with R34 ones that are new. 

Just a rule of thumb from very humid VA.

JWW

Edited November 27, 2022 by JWW427 (see edit history)

[TexRiv_63]

On 11/27/2022 at 12:43 PM, JWW427 said:

Try Danhard Inc.

They make serious AC units for RVs and military vehicles.

I have their trunk mounted unit. They will help you design a custom system.

 

Don't mix low pressure R12 components with R34 ones that are new. 

Just a rule of thumb from very humid VA.

JWW

I looked up Danhard and called them. They can't help with any of the underhood parts but they have a number of heavy duty underdash evaporator units, I have them filed away.

[TexRiv_63]

On 10/11/2022 at 12:02 PM, TexRiv_63 said:

I would appreciate it if anyone could post detailed photos of the factory air underhood setup used on a 1960 Lesabre with a 364 engine showing how the compressor is mounted and what the pulley setup looks like. Also, was the cooling system upgraded to handle a/c, such as a clutch fan, shroud, or oversized radiator? 

 

I would still be VERY interested to hear from anyone who has done this type of aftermarket conversion on a 1960.

I'm reposting this from October. Can't believe there isn't someone out there with a 364 factory air car, please help.