gluing vs riveting brake linings

[tcslr]

What are the pros and cons between attaching brake linings between these tow methods.  Currently, the linings are riveted and I was wondering ( considering) if gluing is and option.  Seems that and adhesive strong enough to withstand the shearing force and heat might be troublesome in future. But I dont know.

 

Thanks for input. ( It is a 29 Chrysler)

 

 

 

 

[Rusty_OToole]

Glued or bonded brake linings have been around since 1950. I doubt you could find the old style rivetted linings for most cars. It was Chrysler that brought them out first.

Bonded are better in every way except maybe one. I have seen the glue fail and the lining peel off but only after a long time, like 20 years or more. Even so, if I have a car with brakes that are more than 10 years old I will inspect the linings carefully and perhaps replace them on general principles if they look iffy.

If you want rivetted linings, and you can find NOS linings of the appropriate size with the holes drilled, you will need a special machine to punch out the old rivets and set the new ones. These used to be common in garages but I haven't seen one in years, and then it was in the garage of a car collector and restorer.

[Rusty_OToole]

If you want the pros and cons the bonded linings work the same but last almost twice as long and there is no danger of rivets scoring the drums as they wear down.

Rivetted linings have the advantage that you can rivet them on yourself if you have the machine you don't need to send them out. And you don't need to worry about the rivets failing from age.

[avgwarhawk]

Both work find.  Rivets if the fraction material gets low enough to expose them will score drums.    

[Janousek]

I rivet them because I have the stuff.  I have over 12k miles on our 31' Buick and the rivets are aren't anywhere near touching the drums.  Most old cars aren't driven that much.     I have a couple hundred into this restored.   They aren't hard to find.   

 

I'd be curious what glue the individuals are using to glue them.              

[Mark Gregush]

Last time I checked about 5-6 years ago, it was $17 per shoe to remove the bonded lining (not set, thats per shoe). Sure you can do if for less, but takes a good amount of heat to release the glue they use. Just a heads up. 

[Frank DuVal]

I would hope so!  Don’t need linings coming off while descending a mountain...😉

[60ch]

I had a new 1966 Chevelle. In 1971 the right rear wheel locked up. It turned out that one lining peeled off and wedged itself on top of the other brake shoe.

The car had low miles and the linings were not worn. Just a bonding failure. I have never even heard of anyone else that had that experience.

[Mike "Hubbie" Stearns]

With the right equipment, riveting is easy. I’ve done some research on the glue that is used. It needs to be very uniform when applied and cooked to make the chemicals bond the two pieces together. Mike

[LI_BENTLEY]

Know someone in local club used J B Weld to glue on linings used many clamps to clamp shoes to brake drum. Been on for 10 years. Probably any adhesive with a high temp rating will work.

[EmTee]

On 8/19/2022 at 9:49 PM, 60ch said:

I have never even heard of anyone else that had that experience.

Well, I did - but it was the RR wheel on an '83 Mazda B2000.  The brake shoes were several years old, however, because the front disc brakes did most of the work so the shoe lining didn't wear very fast.  Postmortem inspection showed that corrosion slowly crept between the lining and the steel backing until the lining popped free.  That's the only bonded lining failure I've experienced in ~45 years...

[PFitz]

Number 1 daughter bought a used Subaru off a used car lot near her college in Binghamton, NY,..."Dad, its making a strange noise when I step on the brake."

 

Used car lot must have only changed the fronts to sell the car. Both rear disc brake pads were worn down beyond the minimum thickness. Heat got to the bonding glue and the pads were coming loose.

 

If bonded brake pads get a bit too thin there is no longer enough thickness of brake material to shield the glue layer from high enough heat to delaminate the lining. That is why there is a groove cut halfway in disc brake pads. When they wear down and there is no more groove showing they are getting dangerously thin. If you look at new pads, that groove only goes about halfway through the brake material. If the pads were riveted the material could be thinned and still hold. 

 

I rivet all the brake and clutch work I do. It goes faster than you think, it's "low tech", and I don't need a special oven just to bake the bonding adhesive.    

 

Then later, there is kicking the relining can problem down the road. Unless your setup to do it, it takes lots of heat and time to clean old, bonded lining off to reline the shoes. It only takes me seconds per shoe to pop out rivets on my rivet stand. And in less time than it takes to bake and cool down bonded shoes I can rivet new linings on. Bonding is only cheaper when done in mass quantities.

 

Paul 

[Frank DuVal]

5 hours ago, PFitz said:

When they wear down and there is no more groove showing they are getting dangerously thin. If you look at new pads, that groove only goes about halfway through the brake material.

Here in Virginia the thickness for rejection is less than 2/32 of an inch of lining, whether above rivets or above the metal the shoe/pad is bonded to. Nothing in the code about if the groove (slot) is missing.

 

I still do not know why 2/32 instead of 1/16.....

 

I usually replace the pads after the rotors look like phonograph records when I can not hear the little noise makers to warn me of thin linings. Ha!😡

 

3. Riveted linings or disc pads are worn to less than 2/32 of an inch over the rivet heads.

4. Bonded or molded linings or disc pads are worn to less than 2/32 of an inch in thickness at any point, not to include manufactured slots.

Edited August 22, 2022 by Frank DuVal (see edit history)

[dodge28]

Bonded linings are the better way to go . Send it out through your mechanic. There are specialty factory/shops that do it for customers only through a dealer. Will not deal with individuals. If the shoes are made of aluminiun (like my 28 Dodge) the linings  cannot be baked. The dodge linings has to be baked for half an hour in an oven before riveting.  Sometimes during the baking process the lining may shift to the side. Check and file off extra hangover. Nappa will send it out for you.

[Guest]

 I bought a 55 F100 that had been sitting for over 10 years that had bonded linings on it that were new. They fell off when I removed the drum.

[Lahti35]

On 8/12/2022 at 12:46 PM, Rusty_OToole said:

If you want the pros and cons the bonded linings work the same but last almost twice as long and there is no danger of rivets scoring the drums as they wear down.

Rivetted linings have the advantage that you can rivet them on yourself if you have the machine you don't need to send them out. And you don't need to worry about the rivets failing from age.

I just had some linings done at a place in Florida and the guy told me the same thing. I had intended to do the job myself with rivets but found the lining had been glued and riveted on in the past, no way were they coming off without a chisel and lots of mess. I sent them out and he was willing to do glue or rivets but told me glue would extend the life of the brakes so I went that way. The glue they used was for industrial cranes, he said not to worry about them coming loose, it's a non issue.

[Oldtech]

7 hours ago, Roger Walling said:

 I bought a 55 F100 that had been sitting for over 10 years that had bonded linings on it that were new. They fell off when I removed the drum.

I'd be suspicious that it had been sitting in water.🤔

[dodge28]

The process of relining old shoes, the old lining is removed on a wire wheel . special glue is used on the new lining and baked in an oven. So too some broken rubber on engine/ transmission mount can be repaired. I once had the transmission mount on a 1941 Buick Special re rubbered .   Here some pics of my 28 DB

[hellerc]

Back in the 80's I attended a Bendix Brake Seminar designed for brake installers.  In discussing brake shoes and lining, the instructor stated that there was a higher coefficient of friction (better stopping power) with riveted lining than there was with bonded.  He stated that the bonded lining was impregnated with compounds that were designed to accept the adhesives and the high heat needed to bond the lining to the shoe.  Based on this I have always sought riveted shoes or I have riveted my own lining to my rehabilitated shoes.  I can't attest to whether this is true of today's lining materials.

[hidden_hunter]

14 hours ago, hellerc said:

Back in the 80's I attended a Bendix Brake Seminar designed for brake installers.  In discussing brake shoes and lining, the instructor stated that there was a higher coefficient of friction (better stopping power) with riveted lining than there was with bonded.  He stated that the bonded lining was impregnated with compounds that were designed to accept the adhesives and the high heat needed to bond the lining to the shoe.  Based on this I have always sought riveted shoes or I have riveted my own lining to my rehabilitated shoes.  I can't attest to whether this is true of today's lining materials.

If I had to do mine I'd go with riveting on the basis that it's what the manual is available for, bonded would be uncharted territory for me