1949 Cadillac coupe street rodded

[Pfeil]

Thank you Peter, I believe these are also your words;

 

Forum rules state:

 

"AACA’s forums do NOT promote other forms of the automobile hobby such as street rods, hot rods or restomods.  As an organization we have respect for all forms of the hobby but these forums are to recognize and serve those that have the same beliefs as our organization. Discussion of modified vehicles will be removed including: street rods, hot rods or similar vehicles."

 

If you post anything hotrod related it will be deleted.

[auburnseeker]

32 minutes ago, Pfeil said:

If you post anything hotrod related it will be deleted.

Aren't there several threads about Modified cars (and I'm not talking period style race cars) currently active?  I know I once posted a car that wasn't stock,  just to mention an issue with the seller not taking the time to clean a car he was trying to sell for top dollar,  but since it wasn't a  completely stock 1940's car (though fairly stock looking) received quite a chellacing for it from the powers that be.   Though the reason I posted it , had nothing to do with it being a street rod and neither did my comments about it.  Strictly about presenting a vintage car for sale. 

 

[Bhigdog]

3 hours ago, Peter Gariepy said:

This forum knows of more people than can be counted who have hoarded countless cars and let them rot into oblivion. We use terms to describe them like "its a shame they never got to it" or, "they are a prolific collector".  Seldom are they damned for their actions. (Hell, that described many who are reading this now)  Now put the term "hot rod" into the equation, and words like " ideocracy and disrespect", "crime", and "moral responsibilities".  (all quotes from this topic)

 

Ever notice that you seldom see an intrinsically or historically valuable antique automobile hot rodded?  In my opinion it's because the car has inherent value, and to modify it reduced that value. Common sense. But the doesn't apply to 99.9% of the cars that have been modified/hot rodded.  Hell, not even most of the cars restored!

 

I prefer restored antique automobiles. (It's why I started this forum 23 years ago!).  But I also goto hot rod car shows.  (shocking, I know).  Why?  Because I like cars!  I drive original beaters. Why? Because I like driving them, not restoring them. Have I put incorrect paint, interior, tires or mechanical  parts on a car? Yup.  Does that make me a bad person for enjoying modified cars or not "preserving history"?   You be the judge, but from my perspective... HECK NO!   Own them, drive them, restore them, modify them...  heck, let them sit in your yard and rot.  It's our choice.

To complain or damn others for not strictly restoring there cars is childish.  Disagree all you like, but at least acknowledge it's there right.

 

It certainly is their right to choose what to do with their property. On the other hand there are a plethora of agencies that are empowered to regulate what you may do, or not do, with YOUR property. IE. Historical preservation, zoning, enviromental, owners associations, eminant domain, etc, etc, ad nauseum. So, the rights of ownership are not absolute. Not even close. Some rights are tempered by law others are tempered by taste and decorum.

That said, can,t we agree that is the fuglyist attempt at improving an already near flawless design.....bob

[Pfeil]

I agree, fuglyist!

[Peter Gariepy]

43 minutes ago, Bhigdog said:

can,t we agree that is the fuglyist attempt at improving an already near flawless design.....bob

No. 😋

[Tom999w]

I hate when cars get destroyed like that. When I decided to sell my rare Crosley Farm-O-Road I contacted the president of the National Crosley club and told him I'm only selling the car to someone who will restore and save it. He found me a great buyer who was looking for one for years, who is restoring it and will show it at the Crosley National show. I was very happy to sell it to him and know that the car went to a good home...

[Cadillac Fan]

35 minutes ago, Bhigdog said:

That said, can,t we agree that is the fuglyist attempt at improving an already near flawless design.....bob

 

No.  The Ring brothers version is uglier:

 

https://www.motortrend.com/news/sema-ringbrothers-unveils-1948-cadillac-ats-v-bits

 

 

 

[Peter Gariepy]

Or this….

 

https://barnfinds.com/jungle-find-1949-cadillac-series-62-convertible/

[Peter Gariepy]

3 hours ago, Bhigdog said:

It certainly is their right to choose what to do with their property. On the other hand there are a plethora of agencies that are empowered to regulate what you may do, or not do, with YOUR property. IE. Historical preservation, zoning, enviromental, owners associations, eminant domain, etc, etc, ad nauseum. So, the rights of ownership are not absolute. Not even close. Some rights are tempered by law others are tempered by taste and decorum.

That said, can,t we agree that is the fuglyist attempt at improving an already near flawless design.....bob

Do you really want legislation to dictate what we can and can’t do with your automobiles?  Slippery slope isn’t it?

[JamesR]

Because something is legal doesn't mean it's legitimate. Nevertheless, I guess that's the price of living in a free and open society: Everyone has the right to butcher a nice old car, and everyone else has the right to judge them harshly for doing so.

Edited March 11, 2022 by JamesR (see edit history)

[Hans1965]

5 hours ago, Peter Gariepy said:

Do you really want legislation to dictate what we can and can’t do with your automobiles?  Slippery slope isn’t it?

Here where I live you can only register a classic car as historic vehicle (with the advantage of paying a low car tax and unlimited access even to environmental zones), if the car is more than 30 years old, in good running order and mostly original or restored originally with a defined catalogue of what that means. Upgrades to safety are of course allowed as well as tuning that is contemporary to the cars age.  If you do no want to do that, you can register it as normal car, which usually means unbearable taxes (depending on engine size, catalyst, up to 2000 USD) and the exclusion from city centers and other protected zones. Heavily modified cars need a special check on safety here, which can cost a few thousand dollars extra. That's why we have only very few street rods here. 

This is widely accepted practice here.

[Bhigdog]

8 hours ago, Peter Gariepy said:

Do you really want legislation to dictate what we can and can’t do with your automobiles?  Slippery slope isn’t it?

Peter, please stop intimating what my thoughts or opinions might be.

If you will read my post again you will, or should, see that I was only pointing out that title to something may have limitations to it's disposition or usage placed upon it.

Our hobby and it's hardware already has many and varied restrictions and dictates placed upon them that mere "ownership" cannot overcome (see the above post).

To simplify: Saying "It's my car I can do whatever I want" may not always be true.

Again, I am only an observer and nowhere do I advocate for or against any "slope" slippery or otherwise............Bob

[Peter Gariepy]

56 minutes ago, Bhigdog said:

Peter, please stop intimating what my thoughts or opinions might be.

 

 

Was not my intent.  Simple following your thoughts to a conclusion.

 

To be clear.  This is a forum about restored antique automobiles.  Some have pointed out this topic has sways off topic.  I agree. But there are some good things coming from it. 

• I fully get those who are adamantly against hot rodding of a vehicle - period.  Being against it for personal reasons is your right.  However, establishing laws banning it I adamantly disagree with.  It's the "slippery slope" to which I refer.

Auto laws I agree with:

1. Automobiles are our property to do with as we generally please if it doesn't impede on others or the common good.
2. Legislation to regulate an automobile's use has long standing precedence.  I generally agree with speeding laws, emissions, seatbelt laws, etc.  These laws are for the common good.
3. Zoning laws on how we store our automobiles has long standing precedence. I generally agree that cars littering a yard (especially in a residential area) needs to be prevented.  These laws are for the common good.

Auto laws and practices I disagree with:

1. Laws restricting maintenance of our vehicles on our own property (within reason).
2. Laws restricting how we can modify our vehicles away from original.
3. Manufacturers who knowingly restrict our ability to maintain our own vehicles need to be questioned.  Example: John Deere and "right to repair" legislation.

FYI: There is an entire lobbying group devoted to preventing these laws.  https://www.sema.org

 

There is always an underlying threat of automobile laws that could radically effect our hobby. We as restored antique automobile enthusiasts need to be careful. If our passion for "restored" cars goes too far and we attempt to support laws that restrict hot rods, we may end up shooting ourselves in the foot when those very laws are used against us when we do a restoration.

 

 

[1937hd45]

Excellent point about SEMA, they are doing a lot of work that allows "antique" cars to enjoy the highways as well as modified ones.

 

Bob 

[Mark Huston]

Everyone has their "Sacred Cow" be it specific year, make and model of car, political point of view, or any number of other topics.   For some this previously restored/original 1949 Cadillac is not on their list of cars they would consider important enough to be worth caring about or saving.   To to others, it is important enough to have an opinion and express that opinion.   I would love to see the reaction of those who have dismissed the opinions of others, regarding the modification of this 1949 Cadillac, when it is their "Sacred Cow" that falls to the cutting torch.   What would their reaction be when it is a 1929-33 Duesenberg Murphy body roadster, for example, that someone with enough money wants to make "reliable and drivable" with a modern SBC crate motor and "modern updated" body and interior?   Would those who supported the right to take a  restored/original 1949 Cadillac, and radically modify it, suddenly have something negative to say about the right to do whatever you want with your car regardless of the outcome?  My mind wanders with the possibility of the kind of posts I would see on this forum if the fate of this Cadillac would also happen to a fully restored/original Duesenberg.   Considering the amount of money in circulation there are those with the financial resources who could buy a Duesenberg and "do whatever they want with it."

[Peter Gariepy]

5 minutes ago, Mark Huston said:

there are those with the financial resources who could buy a Duesenberg and "do whatever they want with it.

Logical? No.  Why would anyone take a $500,000-5,000,000 automobile and consciously destroy it's value? 

Possible? Absolutely.  Dumber things have happened.

Has it happened?  Not a Duesy. But certainly other valuable cars.

 

What would you propose be done to prevent this unlikely scenario that wouldn't also effect the hobby in general in a negative way?

[SC38dls]

The right of ownership should apply to any car no matter the make or model. It’s your car if you want to cut it up or turn it over on its roof to display it that’s your right. At the same time it is my right to say “I think that is wrong to do to a classic or any car”. But the owner doesn’t have to give a damn about my opinion. It’s what makes this country so great. We have those basic freedoms as a foundation for our democracy. If you don’t like the fact someone destroyed his car or house or painting it makes no difference to the owner that did it unless he listens to you. Most people I’ve met don’t bother to do that, still the world goes on. 
dave s 

Edited March 10, 2022 by SC38dls (see edit history)

[F&J]

15 minutes ago, Mark Huston said:

What would their reaction be when it is a 1929-33 Duesenberg Murphy body roadster, for example, that someone with enough money wants to make "reliable and drivable" with a modern SBC crate motor and "modern updated" body and interior? 

This thread shows that different members always have different views on just what defines  "too modified from what it once was" means as far as acceptability.. 

 

Me?  I never cared for the fates of Model J's that were "modified" by junking a beautiful closed body, a one-off hand built body by long gone craftsmen, just to become a "fake" open bodied car.  Just my opinion, but how can that be "ok" to many classic car lovers?  I guess I felt like as if "just being able to actually own any model J" is not good enough for the ego?, that they wanted more attention by owning an open one?  That car seems devalued to me, from the original history of that car, and who commissioned it when new, etc.  History of any car, of any era, always interests me,... who bought it new, where was it sold, what color was it, etc etc.  

 

I can't justify why I want my prewars to be the same original color, and I know that honestly makes no sense in the grand spectrum of life.  I can't even please myself, LOL

 

My only point is with AACA promoting the preservation of car history, and re-bodied "fake' cars seem to go against the cars real history.

 

But there definitely is a reason for replicating missing bodywork, like the Howard Hughes glider tow car that lost it's rear touring body that has been recreated.  I am "ok" with that even though some might wish that the tow car was left as is, including me, because that is also very interesting history of that car, and history of the owner that modified it, and why it was done.

 

  Where do we put the line in the sand of when to condemn /or/ accept what happens to a car at any decade of it's long life?  It's impossible to please everyone.

 

I

 

 

[Pfeil]

11 hours ago, Peter Gariepy said:

Do you really want legislation to dictate what we can and can’t do with your automobiles?  Slippery slope, isn’t it?

 I have one car that is built for Grand Touring and another in the works, therefore I have modified cars as well as original cars. It's not like I or some others dislike modified cars. And I don't like government intervention, it's already done enough damage.

 So, what is the rub here? The rub is that this 49 modified Cadillac is on the wrong site. Most of us know (because we signed off on it) what the purpose of this site is for. When someone posts such a car the bickering starts, needless bickering because the car doesn't belong here in the General section. It just stirs the pot.

[1937hd45]

If you are new to the hobby Google Jim Hoe Duesenberg, he was the East Coast J Duesenberg go to guy. He built the car on the left and raced it at Watkins Glen in 1950. It could be on the show field at Hershey in class 24B, but it was destroyed. Leo Gephardt bought the car and sold it to someone that put a replica body on it, may have an AACA First Junior oval on it and its racing history is lost, just another J Duesenberg now. 

 

Bob 

[Peter Gariepy]

So is a re-bodied car simply a classy hot rod?

[ted sweet]

why is this in the legastative section

[Pfeil]

12 hours ago, ted sweet said:

why is this in the legastative section

My guess is that it was moved because of the GENERAL Forum rules. This type of thing has happened before. One incident I remember was in regard to a modified Buick Riviera. The Buick was moved to the Buick section where there are quite a few modifiers.

Why this Cadillac is in the legislation section, and it is only my speculation that if it were moved to the Cadillac section, and with the Cadillac owners being more conservative in regard to the Cadillac mark it would be best to move it here to have a quiet death.

 

 Here below is the General section of the forum rules.

Forum rules state:

 

"AACA’s forums do NOT promote other forms of the automobile hobby such as street rods, hot rods or restomods.  As an organization we have respect for all forms of the hobby but these forums are to recognize and serve those that have the same beliefs as our organization. Discussion of modified vehicles will be removed including: street rods, hot rods or similar vehicles."

 

If you post anything hotrod related it will be deleted.

[big daddy truck]

9 minutes ago, Pfeil said:

 

 

If you post anything hotrod related it will be deleted.

Can't believe everything you read!

[Hans1965]

It is a little funny, a thread with 1.2 k views seems to be of interest to many people. To make it more or less invisible by moving here to this chapter is quite strange to me, as this will stop the discussion. Is that intended? At least it looks like that.

[Pfeil]

28 minutes ago, big daddy truck said:

Can't believe everything you read!

"AACA’s forums do NOT promote other forms of the automobile hobby such as street rods, hot rods or restomods.  As an organization we have respect for all forms of the hobby but these forums are to recognize and serve those that have the same beliefs as our organization. Discussion of modified vehicles will be removed including: street rods, hot rods or similar vehicles."

 

If you post anything hotrod related it will be deleted.

 

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I didn't write the above. It's part of what you signed to become a member of the forum.

As far as why this thread was moved I only speculated. I would suggest contacting Pete to find out why he moved it. 

 

[big daddy truck]

2 minutes ago, Pfeil said:

 

I didn't write the above. It's part of what you signed to become a member of the forum.

As far as why this thread was moved I only speculated. I would suggest contacting Pete to find out why he moved it. 

 

It really doesn't matter why an administrator moved it, the point is that it is a popular thread which is very interesting in sharing viewpoints.

[Pfeil]

52 minutes ago, big daddy truck said:

It really doesn't matter why an administrator moved it, the point is that it is a popular thread which is very interesting in sharing viewpoints.

Actually, it does matter. Rules matter and that "is" the point of it all and it doesn't matter if the topic is popular or not.

Mob rule is popular and more than often unjust. The rule of law separates us from the animals.

[Hans1965]

2 hours ago, Pfeil said:

Actually, it does matter. Rules matter and that "is" the point of it all and it doesn't matter if the topic is popular or not.

Mob rule is popular and more than often unjust. The rule of law separates us from the animals.

So which rule did I not follow with my original post? Could you let me know, please? I clearly pointed out that I am in favour of the original unmolested car. Thank you. 

 

[Peter Gariepy]

I moved it. It's morphed into legislation. 
 

For those of you who keep pounding on if it should be, why hasn't it been deleted.  Simply because its a Germane topic and this is the right place for it.

[Rivguy]

I'm surprised that this thread has survived so long. There is no resolution to this subject, most hot rod and custom lovers will just avoid this forum. altogether. I don't mind minor "period appropriate" modifications but I have learned to appreciate original cars more over the years. 

[avgwarhawk]

The caddy lost it's charm. 

[big daddy truck]

21 minutes ago, Rivguy said:

There is no resolution to this subject, most hot rod and custom lovers will just avoid this forum. altogether. 

I love all "old" cars. They all make me smile compared to what is being sold today.

[Peter Gariepy]

On 3/12/2022 at 3:55 PM, Rivguy said:

I'm surprised that this thread has survived so long. There is no resolution to this subject, most hot rod and custom lovers will just avoid this forum. altogether. I don't mind minor "period appropriate" modifications but I have learned to appreciate original cars more over the years. 

 

"Avoid" is the wrong word.  It has a negative connotation. 

 

We are all simply drawn to sites that address our interests or needs.

 

A Chevrolet guy doesn't "avoid" a Ford forum.  He simply frequents Chevrolet forums.   

 

 

[Peter Gariepy]

What I observe on a lot of forums in very polarizing tribalism related to their interests.  In the case of this forum. Because we all are restored original fans, we like to chat about them here.  However, there are some who take it to the extreme and demean or badmouth those that are not restored original fans.  Like a Chicago Bears fan who considers a Dallas Cowboy fan dirt (and vis-versa). It's childish in my opinion.

[big daddy truck]

2 hours ago, Peter Gariepy said:

What I observe on a lot of forums in very polarizing tribalism related to their interests.  In the case of this forum. Because we all are restored original fans, we like to chat about them here.  

Not all of us. :-) 

Some of us like all kinds of cars. Before you jump down my throat, this car was built/destroyed in the early 60's. It was well built and garage kept, so if in the future the family decides to sell it, it could be rebuilt back to original. Might take a while though, and a few bucks! 

[Pfeil]

2 hours ago, Peter Gariepy said:

 

"Avoid" is the wrong word.  It has a negative connotation. 

 

We are all simply drawn to sites that address our interests or needs.

 

A Chevrolet guy doesn't "avoid" a Ford forum.  He simply frequents Chevrolet forums.   

 

 

No, avoid does not have a negative connotation in this context or out of or in the context of the word itself. Out of this context it is neutral and can be used positively or negatively. Generally, avoid in the way you are describing it by way of a Chevrolet guy vs Ford guy is a good thing because the Chevrolet guy is simply avoiding the Ford forum and avoiding something negative being a good thing.

Avoiding trouble is sometimes a good thing, just as confronting trouble at times may be imperative.

[Pfeil]

3 hours ago, Peter Gariepy said:

What I observe on a lot of forums in very polarizing tribalism related to their interests.  In the case of this forum. Because we all are restored original fans, we like to chat about them here.  However, there are some who take it to the extreme and demean or badmouth those that are not restored original fans.  Like a Chicago Bears fan who considers a Dallas Cowboy fan dirt (and vis-versa). It's childish in my opinion.

You can see that some of the people who visit the General section site are not restored, original fans even though when they signed on here, they supposedly signed off on that. The reason we have moderators is to see that the rules of the forum are enforced so that the bickering doesn't start and grow out of control.

[big daddy truck]

3 hours ago, Pfeil said:

 The reason we have moderators is to see that the rules of the forum are enforced so that the bickering doesn't start and grow out of control.

You are suggesting that only antique lovers are to be allowed? Our forums are open to anyone, even non car owners. You can not turn away prospective members just because of what do or do not like. The moderators do control the bickering you speak of.

Edited March 15, 2022 by big daddy truck (see edit history)

[Pfeil]

6 hours ago, big daddy truck said:

You are suggesting that only antique lovers are to be allowed? Our forums are open to anyone, even non car owners. You can not turn away prospective members just because of what do or do not like. The moderators do control the bickering you speak of.

Nope, not what I said. What I have said is that the General section of the forum has rules and you signed up for the forum knowing those rules. I didn't make the rules.

Here is the rules for the third time,

 

[AACA’s forums do NOT promote other forms of the automobile hobby such as street rods, hot rods or restomods.  As an organization we have respect for all forms of the hobby but these forums are to recognize and serve those that have the same beliefs as our organization. Discussion of modified vehicles will be removed including: street rods, hot rods or similar vehicles."

If you post anything hotrod related it will be deleted. ]