Durk Miedema Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 Hello I am working on my 1914 Maxwell model 25. I am trying to remove the head. The head and valves are an one piece construction shaped like a L. See photo. I have removed all bolts on top and two on the side. See photo. But the head is not moving. Do I need to remove the studs also? Who can help me. I can’t get my head around it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 (edited) That doesn't look like it has a removable head. I would say you have to work on the valves through those holes, and the pistons from the bottom. That's pretty normal for 1914, most car engines didn't have heads yet, the model T Ford being one of the only ones that did. Edited November 11, 2021 by Bloo (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
37_Roadmaster_C Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 Durk, How long were the bolts that you removed from the top of the "head"? I think Bloo nay be right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durk Miedema Posted November 11, 2021 Author Share Posted November 11, 2021 The bolts are about an inch longer than the part that seems to be the head. Also it isn’t really clear in the first picture but there is definitely some kind of gasket between the top part of the head and the cylinders. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hidden_hunter Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 7 minutes ago, Durk Miedema said: Also it isn’t really clear in the first picture but there is definitely some kind of gasket between the top part of the head and the cylinders. Are you 100% certain it's not from the casting? Quite a few cars from that era didn't have removable heads yet but others more familar with the make might be able to say if that's the case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Gregush Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 (edited) There are a number of Maxwell sites on the web; https://duckduckgo.com/?q=maxwell+car+owners+club&t=newext&atb=v296-3&ia=web If you are not a member of, any of them, you might look it to it. Looks to me like the side piece with the ports and head are all in one. May require the use of wedges to free it up, or could try tapping it with dead blow or rubber mallet from the sides after you remove the studs in the red circles. Chevrolet 4 cylinder heads only had 8 bolts mounting it. So in this case the 8 top bolts just clamped the head around the cylinder, the studs on the side were there to mount the manifolds but now are preventing the head from lifting up. Can't tell if there is a gasket between the side casting and block, or if there are water passages that would require a gasket. I have not had the pleasure of taking one apart, but that is how, in my OP, it looks to be. Edited November 11, 2021 by Mark Gregush (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 If that isn't a removable head I can't see what those bolts would do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwellens Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 Some info: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durk Miedema Posted November 11, 2021 Author Share Posted November 11, 2021 Thank you all for your comments. This weekend I will try to carefully remove the studs and see if I can get the head assembly to come off. I will post a picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hddennis Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 Durk, I have no experience with these early Model 25's but seem to recall a warning in a period magazine NOT to remove the head unless absolutely necessary because of the unusual head design. I found one photo that suggests you may be right in your assumption of having to remove the studs. Later I will look in my parts books to see if I have any other pictures. Howard Dennis 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F&J Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 The 2 pics in post number one are a real mind tester. The first pic sure looks like a removable head with the typical composition head gasket, but 2nd pic of the side??? What is going on with the 3 eyelet things above the side manifold ports?? I don't see a parting line where the head could be removed at those eyelets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Gregush Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 (edited) The side piece is part of the head casting and what you are seeing as a possible gasket, is just a casting line. Edited November 11, 2021 by Mark Gregush (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hddennis Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 Durk, Just found this in my 1914-15 parts book. Howard Dennis 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Gregush Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 Unless you can find a replacement head gasket, maybe you really don't want to break the seal between the block and head. Unless it is leaking or doing a full engine rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwellens Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 Try this company: https://www.olsonsgaskets.com/contact/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldtech Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 Looks to me like the right side of the head comes down with the valves in it. Kind of a different design. Remove the studs from the side and it should loosten with the dead blow hammer. Yes Olsons are the gasket people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete O Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 Interesting stuff. It's a valve-in-head design, only it's a side valve design rather than OHV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durk Miedema Posted November 15, 2021 Author Share Posted November 15, 2021 Hello After carefully removing the studs, the head lifted off easily. It sure is a strange design. You got to admit those engineers back then. The studs have a bulge holding the head fixed. The manifold bolts on the remaining end of the studs. I am planning on having the engine rebuild depending on the state of the components. An I am happy I pulled the head. The water canals were full of stuff. Most carried in by mouse I suppose. To all who suggested a head gasket manufacturer I thank you for the suggestion. But since I’m living on the other side of the ocean I can have it made locally. Photo’s for anyone interested. 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 Very good you got it off...that is a lot of detritus in the water passages with no good way to get it out unless you got the head off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akstraw Posted November 16, 2021 Share Posted November 16, 2021 Thanks for posting this. I have one of these cars that I want to rebuild someday. Your photos and what you have learned will be helpful. I recall several years ago somebody asking about what torque sequence to use in re-installing the head. That is another question to contemplate. Thanks again for sharing your experience! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldtech Posted November 16, 2021 Share Posted November 16, 2021 Yes, thanks for the interesting engine. I have had some to do with Maxwells but never saw this type before. I like old exotic engines! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFranklin Posted November 16, 2021 Share Posted November 16, 2021 Be carefull moving and setting the head down as valve stems can bend fairly easily sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akstraw Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 How is your project is progressing? I am considering pulling the head on mine (1914 model 25) this winter just to clean the carbon, etc. I was looking down thru the oil filler on the front of mine, and noticed that the camshaft has a noticeable amount of axial play in it; maybe 1/16 to 1/8”. It moves back and forth while turning. I wonder if you may have any insight into how the camshaft is stabilized axially? It there a thrust bearing or a spring and plunger somewhere? I appreciate in any photos that you can share, and thanks for those above! Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonz Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 That two-way 90° joint looks tricky, a head gasket and water galley. Reminds me of another two-way 90° joint on my Harley FXR where the gearbox joined the rear of cases, and the inner primary joined the side. There is a specific procedure to tension them correctly, but it works effectively. Good luck👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hddennis Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 On 1/16/2022 at 11:46 AM, Akstraw said: How is your project is progressing? I am considering pulling the head on mine (1914 model 25) this winter just to clean the carbon, etc. I was looking down thru the oil filler on the front of mine, and noticed that the camshaft has a noticeable amount of axial play in it; maybe 1/16 to 1/8”. It moves back and forth while turning. I wonder if you may have any insight into how the camshaft is stabilized axially? It there a thrust bearing or a spring and plunger somewhere? I appreciate in any photos that you can share, and thanks for those above! Andrew Andrew, my parts book shows a plug in the back of the block and a thrust washer listed in front of that. Howard Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akstraw Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 Thanks, Howard. I will look for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durk Miedema Posted January 18, 2022 Author Share Posted January 18, 2022 Hello Thank you for your interest. Progress is slow but the following has been done. All parts have been taken apart. The parts are blasted and currently at the parts cleaner. The play on the camshaft was very little. I did not notice a thrust washer.. Maybe I do need a Parts book. If it is lost I will make a new one. The camshaft does also drive the oil feed pump so play should be limited. If you have more question Andrew please send me a private message. Maybe I can send you more pictures! Best regards Durk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hddennis Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 Andrew and Durk, I'm afraid I gave you misleading information in my response. I re-checked my parts book this morning and found the thrust washer is shown on the front of the cam and NOT the rear as I previously stated, Sorry about that. Howard Dennis 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durk Miedema Posted January 19, 2022 Author Share Posted January 19, 2022 Hello Howard Is 105 in the second picture a valve guide? I am curious to know because mine certainly needs new guides. I can’t really see if it is a guide or just part of the casting. I am thinking of drilling holes and putting in new guides. Best regards Durk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hddennis Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 5 hours ago, Durk Miedema said: Hello Howard Is 105 in the second picture a valve guide? I am curious to know because mine certainly needs new guides. I can’t really see if it is a guide or just part of the casting. I am thinking of drilling holes and putting in new guides. Best regards Durk Durk, yes my parts book lists 105 as a valve guide. IF and that's a Giant IF you could find replacement guides they are listed as replaceable. Most likely your best bet is to drill your old ones out and custom fit new sleeves. Howard Dennis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewOldWood Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 On 1/18/2022 at 11:25 AM, hddennis said: Andrew and Durk, I'm afraid I gave you misleading information in my response. I re-checked my parts book this morning and found the thrust washer is shown on the front of the cam and NOT the rear as I previously stated, Sorry about that. Howard Dennis Doesn't that show front and rear camshaft bushings? Part numbers 158 & 9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hddennis Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 2 hours ago, NewOldWood said: Doesn't that show front and rear camshaft bushings? Part numbers 158 & 9. Yes Howard Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewOldWood Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 160. Shoulda kept reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durk Miedema Posted January 22, 2022 Author Share Posted January 22, 2022 I took a photo today. On the photo you can see the camshaft and bushings folowed by the thrust washer, the sprocket and the nut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akstraw Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Thanks. Did you pull the camshaft out from the front of the engine, or from the rear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durk Miedema Posted January 24, 2022 Author Share Posted January 24, 2022 Andrew I removed it from the front. You can use the treat in the camshaft to pull the bushing out. The bushing is locked in place by a bolt on the outside of the engine case. Durk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akstraw Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 Thanks. I am going to give it a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akstraw Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 Here is a photo of my project. I am going to pull the engine to resolve the issue with the camshaft. I am undecided whether to pull the head. It does not leak, but I would like to clean the carbon from the combustion chamber. I am just afraid I will get into issues with broken studs and bolts that are more than I can take on just now. By the way, my Maxwell has a non-stock manifold that has the carburetor on the right side of the engine. It is a nice piece. It looks like a manufactured item, rather than a home-made item. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durk Miedema Posted February 3, 2022 Author Share Posted February 3, 2022 Hello Andrew This is looking rather nicely. If I were you I would clean the carbon from the top. Maybe pull the valves for more access. The manifold is almost stock. They just chopped off the bottom piece. I will take a picture of mine. I have so many questions about the body of your car because mine is gone. But I’m not that far into the project just yet. Just one thing. Where does your hood locks? Best regards, Durk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akstraw Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 This photo is taken before I removed the sheet metal parts with the hood latches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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