removing old gas

[thadri]

Hi all, the gas has been sitting in my 39 Buick Eight Special a bit too long, I want to remove it and give it a fresh start.

 

Any particular siphon that would work best?

 

yes, I know about the tank and the little bolt that empties it, but I want to control some of the gas coming out before I empty the rest underneath 

[EmTee]

If the drain plug isn't frozen, that's really the best way IMHO.  Siphons are tricky and you really don't want to swallow a mouthful of gasoline (stale or otherwise).  How full is the tank?  The big question is what to do with the old gas once it's out...  Depending upon how bad it is you may be able to mix it with fresh gas and use it in your lawnmower.

[Morgan Wright]

If you get gasoline in your mouth you can rinse it out with Vodka, spit it out don't swallow it until you get all the gas out of your mouth, then drink as much as you want.

Edited November 6, 2021 by Morgan Wright (see edit history)

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

37 minutes ago, EmTee said:

If the drain plug isn't frozen, that's really the best way IMHO.  Siphons are tricky and you really don't want to swallow a mouthful of gasoline (stale or otherwise).  How full is the tank?  The big question is what to do with the old gas once it's out...  Depending upon how bad it is you may be able to mix it with fresh gas and use it in your lawnmower.

 

 

   Let it drain into the gravel and strike a match?? 

 

  Ben

[Hubert_25-25]

This is what I have used.  I tape the suction hose to a wooden dowel so that I can keep the suction on the bottom of the tank.  Opening the bottom drain is great if you are able to remove the plug.  Most auto supply stores and tractor supply carry these.    Hugh  

 

https://www.harborfreight.com/multi-use-transfer-pump-63144.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=12144811130&campaignid=12144811130&utm_content=117789281958&adsetid=117789281958&product=63144&store=3166&gclid=CjwKCAjw2vOLBhBPEiwAjEeK9n0rJOVzRurcg727jdUamj9dpgn88KE5DnfeciaDttgSqBjPk5QoUhoClGUQAvD_BwE

 

[Morgan Wright]

2 hours ago, Hubert_25-25 said:

This is what I have used.  I tape the suction hose to a wooden dowel so that I can keep the suction on the bottom of the tank. 

 

 

Instead of a wooden dowel just use a homebrew stick or wine rack stick

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/254516392521?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D234519%26meid%3D412298d1144c4c27a512cb0033583f09%26pid%3D101195%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D284479802141%26itm%3D254516392521%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DSimplAMLv9PairwiseUnbiasedWebCpr08MlcGreedyV3WithPLX&_trksid=p2047675.c101195.m1851&amdata=cksum%3A254516392521412298d1144c4c27a512cb0033583f09|enc%3AAQAGAAACIEvp%2F8JUk91QG1aT33aQr39NqJd3DUZrsQ6lGA8VdcYGQU%2FchOIZGWP8URzNBgtrcve65H7jUWzSOJdKDNLfM0DIeDoYMzgphA6cXrTGhCVwGfqJQnxTWZYprf3MstKWUqqj1x572D1Q%2Bzfv73ZVcFW0a4uF3A35YxAS1iZwaAs8dd1OxbdwqiFem5NDKUL3jd54Ud3SPFkb6TN0T1Y%2Fo1dzDXv84nhvN73V0EUZDVIv5nFgEDqr9xILVOrTj7b2KvMlKkgOvT2TDYZRCzHaMz2dOH2MgiYDOmGD7nphYQK4oE7W21d%2BINP43xJr8F68OoQkBIZrBU2SPLEthGvI8HEDkSwXKQ8rknBpkQVvF%2BASC%2F5Jj1Lv4RUSV4AiBlBpQd5joriUNxR6MRfoCtMgTp9FWoH9xbt3kqNWtFPHNfd0rLD8v06J64dYt9zLjDW9sNqvRTTiB5VWDhsNJKJwQmRSD0hp3xZObZoDnEwJOlzuV43aF8uAVZ%2B1VpAL%2BWBPLpqIGjpCvUhfvz10N%2BkxJR4fZb0d1FiyR5OFDIHbyNQrJzUpS3TJhu3oSDG6S59DG6y2FllhGM4Bk8rJjbvsgTB0OoAsg%2B13wM6NrBaWiGOwjddboDAh8ovY4RQ9iLbrl7PtVL8TbYIH5JuVum9FfFoJJVRPQ4%2BWHlvRYafGS1816q6Q2zDsw4rRx7Sz0rWOpcPozhm8IyZLRjKvdF5gaS0%3D|ampid%3APL_CLK|clp%3A2047675

[thadri]

Thank you everyone, very helpful and I will consider all of your responses 

[kgreen]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08YJSYZFH?tag=rogerwater-20&linkCode=osi&th=1&keywords=Oil+Vacuum+Extractor

 

This tool is great for rapid clean oil changes (except when the oil filter pukes all over the frame and driveway).  Works for bad gas, lawnmower oil changes etc.

[60FlatTop]

The Harbor Freight Mytee Vac has a collection bottle:

 

On cars that have been stored I draw fuel at the carburetor inlet. This will pull from the lower part of the tank and collect the worst fuel or water (condensation) from the bottom of the tank. I usually fill the bottle four or five times to get rust and crud out of the line and fuel pump. This method also brings the fuel up to the carb so I know it is there and I minimize grinding the starter for delivery.

A pint to a quart draw from the tank will give you a good idea of what is in there and if you need to take other steps before starting.

It is an easy procedure that has saved me some grief.

[Victor W]

When I bought my 40 it had some old fuel in it. I actually drained mine by disconnecting the flexible connector up front near the fuel pump and used a little compressed air (I stayed at 3-4 psi) to drain my tank and flush the old hard line. Worked well for me but overkill if you don't need to flush the lines.

[Robert Winters]

How old do you think the gas was sitting in the tank?

The gas in my tank is about 3 years old and I’m thinking of draining my tank

 

What timeframe is considered bad gas?

[Rock10]

It can get bad over one winter. Depends on how it was stored.

 

[32buick67]

These cars need to be run regularly.

Put some non-oxy in (if available near you) and run for a while each month.

Non-oxy will keep all winter without gumming.

Otherwise run the highest octane (lowest possible ethanol).

[Bloo]

It's not a timeframe, at least if we are talking 3 years or so. and not 20. You either get lucky or you don't. Rotten gas has a very distinctive smell. If it smells like good gas I would be tempted to dilute it with new gas and drive it out. If there's any doubt, drain it. Non-ethanol stores better. Good luck.

[EmTee]

8 hours ago, 32buick67 said:

Otherwise run the highest octane (lowest possible ethanol).

 

The problem is, unless it's labelled as 'non-ethanol', there's no way to be sure how much is present.  Even 'premium' can have ethanol, depending upon the raw stock that the refinery started with.

[Bloo]

That's true. Ethanol has higher octane than the base gasoline, so you should expect more of it in the higher octane gas if the percentage is not specified.

[Morgan Wright]

1 minute ago, Bloo said:

That's true. Ethanol has higher octane than the base gasoline, so you should expect more of it in the higher octane gas if the percentage is not specified.

 

You don't know that. The chain of stores around here that sells non-ethanol has it as their 91 octane. Their 87 and 89 are 10% ethanol.

[32buick67]

Most of our pumps in MN list the % ethanol, and in general the lower octane gas has more ethanol.

We are very fortunate to have non-oxy at most retail locations, so most of us use that because its 0% ethanol at most locations.

[Bloo]

54 minutes ago, Bloo said:

That's true. Ethanol has higher octane than the base gasoline, so you should expect more of it in the higher octane gas if the percentage is not specified.

 

50 minutes ago, Morgan Wright said:

 

You don't know that. The chain of stores around here that sells non-ethanol has it as their 91 octane. Their 87 and 89 are 10% ethanol.

 

Well yes, if they specify no ethanol, then you should expect less.

 

Somewhere I have a book I collected back when I was working in a gas station in the 80s. It was published by either an oil industry group or one of the big oil companies (Texaco, Chevron, Shell, etc.). I do wish I could find it.

 

At that time, they were using Ethanol, Methanol, and MTBE as octane boosters in gasoline, the percentages varied according to brand, and the season the fuel was brewed for, at up to 10%. You could expect the whole 10% in Premium (92 octane at that time), and maybe more like 6-8% in Unleaded (87 octane at that time). This is because they were using the alcohols/ethers as octane boosters in the absence of lead.

 

Speaking of lead, it also said that Regular (that's LEADED regular, 88 octane at that time) was limited by the federal government to 1/10-th gram lead per gallon. It also said that 1/10-th gram lead per gallon is good for 1/2 a point in octane boost.

 

It did not say so, but it is not too hard to infer that the only difference between Unleaded (87) and Regular (88) was 1/10-th gram lead, and the actual octane boosters were Ethanol, Methanol, and MTBE just like any other gas at that time.

 

Sometime in the late 90s Washington State mandated 10% "Oxygenated" fuel. That was mostly grandstanding, because we already had oxygenated fuels for a decade or two. It did work on some level, as it raised the blend percentage to 10% on everything, and there were still a lot of cars on the road at that time with no closed-loop fuel control. Overall CO emissions went down a little.

 

Meanwhile, MTBE got banned in California and Washington. I don't recall ever hearing that Washington State repealed it's "10% oxygenated" requirement, and I wonder if they ever did. You can buy "Non-Ethanol" fuel here in all 3 of the current grades (87, 89, 92 octane) here if you know where to look. It makes you wonder what is in it. Methanol maybe? I doubt the need for an octane booster went away.

 

Back on topic, the current Ethanol (E10) gasoline does seem to rot much faster than whatever we had in the 80s. Non-Ethanol gas for winter storage is probably a good idea.

 

Edited November 6, 2021 by Bloo (see edit history)

[EmTee]

1 hour ago, Bloo said:

You can buy "Non-Ethanol" fuel here in all 3 of the current grades (87, 89, 92 octane) here if you know where to look.

 

Same is true here, however, the non-ethanol gas found 99% of the time around here is 91 octane.  That's what I use in my old cars and lawn equipment.

[Morgan Wright]

2 hours ago, Bloo said:

d. You can buy "Non-Ethanol" fuel here in all 3 of the current grades (87, 89, 92 octane) here if you know where to look. It makes you wonder what is in it. Methanol maybe? 

 

 

 

 

I hope not. I bet methanol gums everything up just as bad as ethanol does. I'm thinking of doing an experiment to see. Get a half gallon of non-ethanol gas and put it in a gallon glass jar, and add water with food color to it, and mix. The methanol would mix with the water and drop out of the gasoline. If you have less than a half gallon of gasoline now (no food color), the difference is the methanol that came out.

Edited November 7, 2021 by Morgan Wright (see edit history)

[Morgan Wright]

I did it. The water level went DOWN instead of up. Not sure what's going on here.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 9, 2021 by Morgan Wright (see edit history)

[Frank DuVal]

Ethanol does appear to raise octane, but so do other additives. There is no non-ethanol fuel in the EPA "non-attainment" area of northern Virginia area. All grades have it, labeled "Contains up to 10% Ethanol", I have to drive to other counties buy non-ethanol. 

Edited November 9, 2021 by Frank DuVal (see edit history)

[thadri]

Thank you everyone for all this helpful info!

[Marty Roth]

There is a more modern type of transfer hose with a brass fitting and a "Rattle Ball", so you don't need to get any in your mouth.

they are available, affordable, and easy to use-

1. stick the hose into the tank

2. shake the hose

3. capture the flow

 

I have used mine on gas and diesel

[Gary W]

Just an idea for the old gasoline you remove from the tank.  I have a small service station here, and they will let me empty my 5-gallon container into one of the gas tanks of a wrecked car that is going for scrap.

If you have a local station, it doesn't hurt to ask if you can dispose of your old stuff in the same way.