Automotive Learning Resources?

[William Romoser]

Hello everyone, I am a bit new here and same to my new found love for pre-war era cars. Ever since I was a kid I gravitated towards the Duesenbergs and Pierce-Arrows, but knew little to nothing about them apart from the fact that they sat on four wheels. Over the past couple years and after working in a family friends brass era restoration shop and seeing some of the car tours, I got even more excited and interested in the hobby. I meet a lot of gentleman that have a wealth of knowledge in their head through conversation and experience... I envy that sort of knowledge. So, I was wondering if anyone knew any good websites, news sources, magazines, books, or other periodicals that would help me learn some of the ins and outs of pre-war era cars. I'm not completely blind these days, as I do interact with many people in the hobby and do some of my own DIY research, but have a hard time finding some of the more in depth and extensive resources. Any help?

[1912Staver]

It's a constant search. The best books as far as I am concerned are very in depth. Books like this are unfortunately generally printed in very small print runs, and the price tends to be in many cases quite high. 

Websites, magazines and periodicals have a general tendency to be somewhat superficial.  The now defunct Automobile Quarterly was probably about as good as a periodical can hope to be.  Constantly high quality articles , from many of the leading automotive writers. A good place to start would be reading AQ from start to finish . But a complete collection is not cheap. Also the feature hard cover books on individual car makes published over the years by AQ. 

Some titles are fairly rare and expensive , but most are quite reasonable if a person patiently watches on ebay.

 After that the sky is the limit. Both cost and needed storage space. 

[wayne sheldon]

If you want a little more meat about the workings of brass era automobiles, you may want to get a copy of "Understanding Your Brass Car" by Harold Sharon (RIP).

[Restorer32]

Like Wayne I highly recommend Harold Sharon's book.  I loaned mine to a fellow and it disappeared.

[Mark Wetherbee]

At one time the AACA library was selling copies of Automobile Quarterly at a very reasonable price and seemed to have 90% of the entire collection available. As mentioned there is a few harder to find copies but for the most part they are easily available. I think I bought 5 different copies that contained articles on Pierce Arrow for $3.00 each at the time which is much much less than any you can find on eBay and it supports the library...

 

if you are looking for information about the mechanics I would suggest earlier copies of Dyke’s, Audel’s, or Motor Manuals. There’s also several books from correspondence courses for automotive repair and maintenance that can be very interesting.

 

Good luck!

Edited June 3, 2021 by Mark Wetherbee (see edit history)

[alsancle]

You can buy a complete set of Automobile Quarterly for almost the cost of shipping these days.   There are sets popping up all the time.   A must have for any real car guy.

[Buick35]

I have a six volume set of automotive engineering books from 1920 that you could borrow as long as I get them back.I'm located in East central Florida.They contain electric and steam cars.

[Walt G]

It depends upon your focus - pre war is a large range of time . Do you want general knowledge, a list of all the cars/commercial vehicles  and companies made, focus on cars that ended production with WWI, general everyday working class transportation, luxury chassis, coach builders? Start at one area and then expand , is is like going to an "all you can eat" banquet and then not knowing what to munch on first. Don't get to many volumes all at once  - digest one first then move on. I have about a half dozen books that I use for primary reference that will then provide enough information to let me jump off to a specific make or area. Automobile Quarterly is great BUT it just does not cover pre war cars, lots of post war material - how much space and $ do you have to fill up with paper?

Walt

Edited June 3, 2021 by Walt G
correction to sentence (see edit history)

[JV Puleo]

Walt has said this better than I could. You need to find a focus, which isn't to say it couldn't change, In fact, as you learn more it is almost inevitable that your focus will change. I started out generally interested in pre-1930 cars but, as time went on, I realized that I was really only interested in the big, expensive cars and bigger brass cars with a heavy emphasis on engineering rather than body design. I'd rather have the most dilapidated Silver Ghost limo than a boat-tailed Auburn...

 

With that in mind, my library has grown up around the technical books published at the time, not all of which are about cars but all of which contain useful information. Aside from the Harold Sharon book mentioned in another thread, nothing contemporary has been written on the subject (and I think Harold's book, while very useful and I recommend it, has its shortcomings).

 

Unfortunately, many of the highly specialized titles were published in small numbers and are long out of print and expensive. The general books, which can be good, are still "general" and, at best, give an overview of the subject. Hugo Pfau's Custom Body Era is quite good and available but, of course it doesn't contain any information on the mechanical aspects.

 

A good place to start might be period trade publications - MoToR and Horseless Age etc. These are now available via services like google books. This material is long out of copyright so it can be downloaded and printed and saved in binders. We didn't have a resource like this 40 years ago and had to either travel to the rare library that had these periodicals or buy our own copies. A great deal of specialized information was published in the trade publications of the time and these have received very little attention from the general collecting community.

Edited June 3, 2021 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

One other drawback I find with the best books is the vast majority are either written about very common cars like Model T and Model A Fords, cars I have personally more or less lost interest in as the decades rolled by. Or they focus on wonderful cars that I will probably never even see in real life let alone own or drive. Nice to know about, but of little practical value as far as my own cars are concerned. 

   Thanks for reminding me about the online sources for early journals JV.  I own a smattering of original copy's , but they tend to be quite hard to find unless a person is prepared to pay ebay prices.  I agree that there is a wealth of information in these early journals.

 

[AutoMechanic]

I have tons and tons of old factory repair manuals for different things and for my beetle. I also read older Motor repair manuals too. I also read Haynes and Chilton front to back. But what really helps me since I’m a hands on learner is actually doing it and using the manual as just a guide. Since I’m a mechanic I have access through work to most of the repair information from the factory but it only goes back to a certain year so for the really old stuff I use the good old paper manuals. And watch lots of YouTube too. 

[1912Staver]

I guess it depends on what you call " really old stuff " . Most of what I call "really old stuff " never even had a repair manual. Sometimes an owners manual that covered most day to day operation and maintenance , and perhaps common repairs. The oldest reasonably proper manual I have is for my 1918 Packard truck. And I think it is more because they were supplied to the U.S. Military for use in WW1 that the manual is as comprehensive as it is.  

 But compared to my automotive interest's 1918 is pretty new. Even right on up to the late 1920's , factory material can be somewhat superficial.

 Parts books seem a bit more common for early cars , but they are often quite rare unless you are talking about one of the top 10 or sellers of their day.

 I have been looking for a parts book for my 1912 Staver Chicago for over 20 years now. I have a pretty so - so photocopy of one a previous owner obtained from Harrah's library many years ago, but much of the detail in the illustrations is hard to make out. So far I have not even heard of a genuine copy for sale.

Sure would be interesting to know what happened to Walter Millers massive collection.

[nickelroadster]

Go find yourself a couple of  old Dykes repair manuals.  These can be good as each year usually goes back and covers cars from the previous seven to ten years or so.  If you got two of them from different years say about 1930 and 1922 they could pretty much cover what you would be looking for.  Just disregard all the instructions about using gasoline to clean everything with.  Good way to start a fire.

[mike6024]

what is the difference of babbitt bearings versus insert bearings, somewhat explained

 

 

[William Romoser]

So, it really sounds like I should pick up some Automotive Quarterlys, perhaps a few Dykes manuals, and "Understanding Your Brass Car" by Harold Sharon. I think that is a great list to start with. I also do hear those that have suggested I find a specific group of cars I am interested. For the most part I have honed in on the early 1930s pheatons, so I am likely to start there. Thanks for all the help! Keep the suggestions coming!

 

[JV Puleo]

The original question concerned pre-war cars. As Gregg has correctly pointed out, owner's manuals tended to be very general covering, at the most, general maintenance. How to check the oil...battery etc. By the early 30s they may have been more common - those are "new" cars to me so I've little exposure to them. What was much more common were general works dealing with engineering and repairs. In a world where the average mechanic might have to service cars by dozen's of makers, these were much more useful. I'd look for copies of Self Propelled Vehicles by JE Homans -published every couple of years from 1903 onward. I have '03, '05, '09 and '12 - they don't change much with each edition but the change is dramatic between 1903 and 1912. The is also the multi-volume set Automobile Engnieering, also published every two or three years. I use 1917 but the 1919 editions seem to be much more common. By far the best, and the most technical, is PM Heldt's The Gasoline Motor. The first edition is 1912 but Heldt was updating his work right through the 1930s. There are usually 2 volumes, one on motors and the other on chassis/suspension systems.

 

Of course, none of this will help with body design – "styling" as they called it (and seems to be the primary interest of about 90% of the car collectors), but if you study these works you will be light years ahead of most old car enthusiasts in understanding how they worked.

Edited June 7, 2021 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[alsancle]

On 6/3/2021 at 2:42 AM, wayne sheldon said:

If you want a little more meat about the workings of brass era automobiles, you may want to get a copy of "Understanding Your Brass Car" by Harold Sharon (RIP).

 

Cheapest one I found was 250 bucks.  Must be a great book!

[JV Puleo]

I think its still available from is daughter for $25. Look on the HCCA site

[Tmann]

On 6/3/2021 at 6:55 AM, Restorer32 said:

Like Wayne I highly recommend Harold Sharon's book.  I loaned mine to a fellow and it disappeared.

Another vote for Harold Sharon's book

[Akstraw]

I would say, owning a range of pre-war cars, that I have learned a lot from the relevant Dyke’s and Motor manuals for the corresponding years.   For some particular cars (I am thinking my Model A, and my Franklin), there are strong and active clubs supporting the marque, and some resulting in-depth publications and discussion boards as well.  (Marmon owners are blessed with an unusually in-depth tome by Hanley & Hanley; truly a remarkable work.) Original Owner’s and Maintenance manuals are valuable info sources,too.  I like the AQ articles and similar publications, but I find (don’t shoot me) that they can be strong on the business history of a manufacturer (which I do find interesting) and short on useful technical detail, if that is what you are after.