Period RACE CAR Images to Relieve some of the Stress

[1937hd45]

Buick factory team car @1910. 

 

Bob 

[AHa]

4 hours ago, Terry Bond said:

Here are a couple of very early race photos.  I acquired these with the material I got from a local estate that included the 1908 Vanderbilt Cup racing program.  Would sure like to get an ID on the vehicles and the event(s),

Terry

Terry, I believe the first car above is a curved dash Olds. The car immediately above is a Locomobile. The car behind it may be an Autocar. I don't know the Venue.

[A. Ballard 35R]

6 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

 

Looks like Bergdoll in the winning #8 Benz at Fairmount Park 1911, last year races were held.

[1937hd45]

46 minutes ago, A. Ballard 35R said:

 

Looks like Bergdoll in the winning #8 Benz at Fairmount Park 1911, last year races were held.

 

Thanks! There is no date but Fairmount Park is listed, Mulford finished second in a Lozier, Zengle third in a National. Wishart  in his Mercedes was disqualified for dropping of his mechanic. Wishart would finish fourth in the 1911 INDY 500. 

[Steve Moskowitz]

Two Isotta's at the Briarcliff race in 1908.  # 19 driver is Harding and #11 I believe is Al Poole.  Interesting fender treatment!

[Terry Bond]

14 hours ago, AHa said:

Terry, I believe the first car above is a curved dash Olds. The car immediately above is a Locomobile. The car behind it may be an Autocar. I don't know the Venue.

Doubt it's a CDO.  Curve on the dashboard doesn't have enough "curve" to it, but hopefully Steve Moskowitz can confirm if is or isn't.   Second car could very well be Locomobile as it came from the estate of someone involved with the Locomobile Company.  If so, it's early, and I[m now wondering if it's a European event?  Just to the left of the race car, partly hidden away, is a rear-engined vehicle that looks very much like one of the early De Dion Bouton three-wheelers.  I have a small leather diary from this estate where it seems the Locomobile Company sent him on a trip through Europe to visit auto manufacturing plants in several different countries.   Although this forum isn't the best place for a "what's it" question, I felt the racing experts here might best be able to pin it all down.

Thanks for your input - Steve, what do you think about the CDO ident?

Terry

[Steve Moskowitz]

Definitely not a CDO!  I agree that the second car looks like a Locomobile...the first, not a clue .

[AHa]

Where's Bob when you need him? Sometimes the best way to get other people to answer a request is to provide a wrong answer. Sure looks like a CDO to me, but then, I've been wrong before and quite often as it seems. Post another picture and I'll try again!

.

Let me try this again. I believe the first car is an 1899 Locomobile without the dash. The second car may be a Mason. Mason used Locomobile chassis and piano box bodies.

Here is one with the side tiller.

 

Edited May 2, 2020 by AHa (see edit history)

[Terry Bond]

I enlarged and enhanced the pic a bit.  Tiller is different but looking at those parts mounted left and right of the existing dash, they could be brackets that supported another piece, and the dash certainly looks removable on the photo you supplied.  I originally thought those parts could be some kind of small lamp but they don't appear to be once the photo is blown up a bit.  Assumption is it's a steam powered vehicle.

Terry

[AHa]

Terry,

The dash on these vehicles is a carryover from buggys. It is patent leather sewn onto a metal frame and yes there are two brackets attached to the body that hold the dash. The two pieces standing up on each corner are rear view mirrors so the driver can see who's chasing him. Here is a dash that has not been covered.

[Steve Moskowitz]

No CDO every had the side tiller!  Always center mounted.  Not really much similarity to a CDO except its age.  I does look like an early steamer to me as well Terry.

[Steve Moskowitz]

More Briarcliff Race 1908  photos.  Both cars Stearns with the first being driven by Vaughan and the second by some obscure guy by the name of Oldfield!

[AHa]

 

Boston car show, 1898.

Edited May 2, 2020 by AHa (see edit history)

[Terry Bond]

7 hours ago, AHa said:

Terry,

The dash on these vehicles is a carryover from buggys. It is patent leather sewn onto a metal frame and yes there are two brackets attached to the body that hold the dash. The two pieces standing up on each corner are rear view mirrors so the driver can see who's chasing him. Here is a dash that has not been covered.

Agree, probably a Locomobile or Mobile steamer with dash removed.  Sure would like to know the where and when for the race though.

Not sure those are rear-view mirrors.  I'd always thought the rear -view mirror was 1st used in the 1911 Indy 500.

Terry

[wayne sheldon]

Terry, The Ray Harroun Indy 500 story is the stuff of legends! And a legend is mostly what it is. There were "rear view" mirrors advertised for Chauffeurs  of limousines as early as 1908 that I have seen. I have read that maybe even as early as 1906. Limousine drivers were especially targeted because of the large rear body and small driver compartment made looking behind exceptionally difficult. Drivers often had to pull over to a curb to pick up or drop off a passenger, then need to pull out quickly into traffic in major cities in front of crowded theaters or restaurants. 

Certainly, Ray Harroun popularized the rear view mirror. But he did not originate it.

[AHa]

I was just joking about the blobs being mirrors. I think I've been social distancing too long.

[wayne sheldon]

AHa, I thought you were likely joking, but any excuse to add a bit of history to our history! I always like that photo of one of Henry's early racing stars. I think that is Henry standing, I don't that is "Spider" Huff driving? Probably a young Barney Oldfield. The history of 999 and Arrow is interesting. The two cars were intermixed and reworked so much it is hard to tell them apart.

[Terry Bond]

7 hours ago, wayne sheldon said:

Terry, The Ray Harroun Indy 500 story is the stuff of legends! And a legend is mostly what it is. There were "rear view" mirrors advertised for Chauffeurs  of limousines as early as 1908 that I have seen. I have read that maybe even as early as 1906. Limousine drivers were especially targeted because of the large rear body and small driver compartment made looking behind exceptionally difficult. Drivers often had to pull over to a curb to pick up or drop off a passenger, then need to pull out quickly into traffic in major cities in front of crowded theaters or restaurants. 

Certainly, Ray Harroun popularized the rear view mirror. But he did not originate it.

I think the "legend" is that the first use of the rear view mirror in racing was the 1911 Indy 500.  Indeed it has existed a long time -was used even on horse-drawn vehicles long before then.

Terry

 

[AHa]

999 and Arrow together. Oldfield on the left, Cooper on the right

[1937hd45]

[Steve Moskowitz]

Two more pictures from 1908 Briarcliff race, Simplex driven by Watson

[hddennis]

While doing Maxwell research ran across this photo of Eddie Rickenbacker and a bear cub listed as Maxwell team mascot. I also have a picture from 1916 sales brochure with a bear. Does anyone have any other pictures or info on this bear/ Maxwell racing history?

 

Howard Dennis 

Edited May 2, 2020 by hddennis (see edit history)

[AHa]

First purpose built race car made by Jenatzy. Its an electric.

 

[AHa]

Unknown

[1937hd45]

[Craig Gillingham]

2 hours ago, AHa said:

Unknown

6 Cyl. Napier.

[alsancle]

Here is my one contribution to this thread.  I don't believe I have ever been posted it before.  Some of you really sharp guys can guess where and when.

[1937hd45]

^^^^ Nice ARCA action shot of the Jim Baldwin Studebaker INDY car about to be passed by the ex Elgin Road Race Ford owned and driven (no hands) by Joel Thorne. The Grand Prix of the United States of America , Briarcliff, N. Y. June 23, 1935. Wonder what others could have done if they found them selves with 38 Million dollars in 1924 at the age of ten? Third car is a bit fuzzy, I can't make out the number on the side. Bob 

[alsancle]

3 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said:

^^^^ Nice ARCA action shot of the Jim Baldwin Studebaker INDY car about to be passed by the ex Elgin Road Race Ford owned and driven (no hands) by Joel Thorne. The Grand Prix of the United States of America , Briarcliff, N. Y. June 23, 1935. Wonder what others could have done if they found them selves with 38 Million dollars in 1924 at the age of ten? Third car is a bit fuzzy, I can't make out the number on the side. Bob 

 

What took you so long Bob?   I need to find my ARCA book but the third car should be easy to figure out.    Btw,   Gus Schumacher built the bodies on the two Willys Specials.

[1937hd45]

That is a nice tid bit of info the #11 Willys went on to win that race! Stole this photo from the Joel Finn book. Bob 

[alsancle]

47 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said:

That is a nice tid bit of info the #11 Willys went on to win that race! Stole this photo from the Joel Finn book. Bob 

 

 

Bob,  I need to find a picture,  but there were two identical Willys and I thought they were polished Aluminum (Gus's usual treatment)  but they might have been white,  now that I think about it.

[1937hd45]

The "uncropped" page

[Steve Moskowitz]

1949 Indy 500.  Oldsmobile's first year pacing the race.  Notice the amount of bricks still showing on the track.

[rniez]

I took a drive around the old Briarcliff course a couple of years ago. I found it to be quite scary and narrow, and it was probably not as wide in the mid thirties. As they say "When men were men".

[Steve Moskowitz]

This picture was taken at the Lansing, Michigan assembly plant and home office.  I was not working there at the time contrary to belief.  Great pace car, a replica was made but the original is nowhere to be found.

[1937hd45]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Steve was the fender flare an option or a 500 only feature? Bob 

[MrEarl]

On 4/20/2020 at 3:48 PM, AHa said:

It kept their hair from blowing around in their face. That was their only concern. They lived as if they had one opportunity.

 

Steve, can I request more information about the pictures you post? I am not as well versed as some of you guys. I love these early car pictures but struggle to understand the makes of cars, locations, and significance.

 

On 4/20/2020 at 4:02 PM, Steve Moskowitz said:

I will try but I have struggle to have the time to add much detail!!  

 

 

 Well Steve there's a saying to the effect that A rich man buying you something means not so much, but a busy man giving you his time means everything.  Thanks for starting this great tread and also for your time in "raiding the Library files" and adding all the great and rare photos and comments.

 

Now with that said I feel I would certainly be remiss if I did not add some items of my greatest early racing interest, the early days of Buick racing. These from my computer files collected over the years and certainly no copyright infringement of any kind intended.

 

Hold onto your seats ladies and gentlemen. I'll begin with perhaps the most unmistakable Buick race car and driver ever known

 

The Buick Bug and Louis Chevrolet

 

 

 

Louis Chevrolet and Bob Burman

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Louis Chevrolet at the wheel and a passenger precariously holding onto the seat of the 1910 Buick racer Louis  drove for Billy Durant's highly successful Buick factory-sponsored racing team

 

 

 

 

 

Arthur Chevrolet and riding mechanic in Buick racer Arthur drove in the first Indianapolis 500, 1911

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by MrEarl (see edit history)

[MrEarl]

  Louis again

 

 

 

 

 

not a Buick but Louis with a very brave lady most familiar with speed and thrills,  who can tell who she is 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by MrEarl (see edit history)

[AHa]

Which Buick was chain driven, if I may be so bold as to ask?

[MrEarl]

46 minutes ago, AHa said:

Which Buick was chain driven, if I may be so bold as to ask?

 

 

One humble answer might be "the Great Marquette-Buick"  "Roadster" 

 

edit) Marquette was building the chassis for Buick for awhile I believe

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by MrEarl (see edit history)