Walt G Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 This is about the large "classic " ( as per CCCA rules , regulations etc) . For their lower priced, shorter wheelbase cars of the same era I can comment. My guru for all Chrysler products of the 1931-33 era was the late Stan Marcum of Manlius ( used to live in Syracuse) NY. I bought a 1933 Chrysler Royal 8 model CT conv coupe from him. He was a top notch restorer and drove that CT to Hershey and back after it was finished and took an AACA 1st place award with it. His cars never saw trailers. I loved the car , fit well ( I am long in legs, Stan was shorter) and the car had an adjustable front seat. Engine size , wheelbase aside the car had presence and would easily cruise along effortlessly at 55 mph. I also had the pleasure of driving Stan's 1932 CP 8 conv sedan , another well driving car, and his 1933 Imperial CQ conv coupe. All cars drove absolutely magnificently. Stan was an outstanding mechanic and restorer. I can say nothing to put down any of his cars in any aspect. I eventually parted with the 1933 CT conv coupe because my son got to big to want to climb in and out of the rumble seat every time we would take the car out. My own preference for body styles - well the ones I find least desirable body wise - just from the stand point of not easily accommodating friends who want to go along is a conv coupe ( 1934 and earlier), coupe and a roadster. Great looking cars but I like to have people along with me. SO a car with two doors like a conv victoria , or victoria coupe is ok But unlike Ed I do like conv sedans very much ( own a 1940 Buick Roadmaster conv sedan) as well as touring cars, town cars, sedans etc. I like to drive old cars, perfect trophy winning cars that don't get driven I am luke warm to. I have been in the old car interest ( I don't use the word hobby because to me I immediately want to say horse after that) since 1963, started driving old cars in 1967 when I got my license, have driven pre WWII era cars about 100,000 miles. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 (edited) This photo caught my eye yesterday. Sidenote - not sure what I am looking at in the middle of the top, though the little things you see toward the edges of the roof a few inches from the wiper blades appear to be drains for a Sunroof (albeit car is a convertible) ? Edited December 22, 2019 by John_Mereness (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 (edited) Here was the rest of the post from Facebook: Michael Schlenger Cars Of The 1900's to 1930's· 19 hrs · The attached photo from my collection shows a Chrysler Imperial from 1931/32, in my opinion. The lateral ventilation "doors" in the engine hood would normally indicate that this must be a 1932 model, however they are slanted and not vertical, so there is a possibility that this a special-bodied car whose chassis could also be a 1931 one. The one-piece windscreen is another indication that this Chrysler was bodied by a local coachbuilder, maybe in Switzerland where this photo was taken (registration: Zurich). Also notable is the strong tyre profile - I haven't come across something similar on a car of that period so far. Any ideas on the year of manufacture and the coachbuilder, perhaps? Edited December 22, 2019 by John_Mereness (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted December 22, 2019 Author Share Posted December 22, 2019 This would be the all time great CL if its provenance is sorted out and is restored to Pebble standards. The period pictures are fantastic while the current ones not so much. The car has lost its CL fenders, the rear is different and a bunch of other things I can't quite finger that make it not looks so hot anymore. https://hymanltd.com/1933-chrysler-cl-imperial-victoria-by-de-villars/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, alsancle said: I really do not think we are looking at the same car - perhaps same coachbuilder, but not the same car. The reason why I say that is there are just too many variances in the belt moldings. Edited December 22, 2019 by John_Mereness (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 (edited) I’m sure it the same............ And I really like the car....... Edited December 22, 2019 by edinmass (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted December 22, 2019 Author Share Posted December 22, 2019 Don't believe the Drauz still exists, but it is pretty cool. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted December 22, 2019 Author Share Posted December 22, 2019 1 minute ago, edinmass said: I’m sure it the same............ I'm not sure but I think it probably is. I think the trip to Poland did it no favors and quite a bit has been replaced or rebuilt. Can't wait to see it back in its original CL configuration. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 1 minute ago, edinmass said: I’m sure it the same............ Then, I am leaning to its leading one really rough life - notice the difference in the "dip" for the top via the rear tub. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 1 minute ago, alsancle said: Don't believe the Drauz still exists, but it is pretty cool. Neat car !!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted December 22, 2019 Author Share Posted December 22, 2019 Just now, John_Mereness said: Neat car !!! The Germans had a thing about double rear spares that made the cars look a mile long. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted December 22, 2019 Author Share Posted December 22, 2019 West has posted this before. Same windshield as the black car, but not that car. I think it has survived and was mistakenly restored back to original Lebaron. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 2 hours ago, alsancle said: I'm not sure but I think it probably is. I think the trip to Poland did it no favors and quite a bit has been replaced or rebuilt. Can't wait to see it back in its original CL configuration. Trust me, it’s the same car. I have looked into it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 Of all the body styles at that time, the European coachbuilders truly grabbed the convertible Victoria and ran with it to the farthest degree for absolute stylish elegance and verve. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted December 23, 2019 Author Share Posted December 23, 2019 5 hours ago, edinmass said: Trust me, it’s the same car. I have looked into it. It is a GREAT car and I'm looking forward to what an unlimited amount of money can do to it. But I do wonder how much of the "ship of theseus paradox" is at work. It is very hard for me to reconcile the period photos with what I see now. Something is off. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 On 12/22/2019 at 9:44 PM, alsancle said: It is a GREAT car and I'm looking forward to what an unlimited amount of money can do to it. But I do wonder how much of the "ship of theseus paradox" is at work. It is very hard for me to reconcile the period photos with what I see now. Something is off. Rough life I am strongly guessing. That said, dust off the the English wheel and .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_Mack_CT Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 two 31 Imperials, bright! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narve N Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 Much talk about this windshield style seen on a few Imperials and which looks a lot better than the "upright" standard LeBaron version. Isn't it sort of an adapted Auburn windshield - or is it more slanted than the Auburn? I have checked and the Auburn car is 5" narrower (45" vs 50" across cowl) than an Imperial so it is no direct fit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narve N Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 For those who have forgotten how the Drauz one-off looks like with the top down. Dammann 70 Years: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 (edited) For comparison, each in turn, I doubt if they were the same car, Drauz must have bodied more than one Custom Imperial. Edited January 7, 2020 by 58L-Y8 (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narve N Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) 11 hours ago, 58L-Y8 said: For comparison, each in turn, I doubt if they were the same car, Drauz must have bodied more than one Custom Imperial. You are absolutely correct. Dammann and myself mixed it up and here is the same picture (low resolution) from a period Chrysler leaflet. It was a Kellner Cvt Cp made for King Carol II of Romania: Edited January 7, 2020 by Narve N Duplicate picture (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Thanks for the correct coachbuilder credit, Kellner did fine design work as well. Europeans got stylish convertible victorias seemingly far more than we did here. Were it not for Waterhouse, Rollston, Derham, Dietrich, Brunn, Fleetwood and LeBaron, none might have been built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 23 hours ago, 58L-Y8 said: Thanks for the correct coachbuilder credit, Kellner did fine design work as well. Europeans got stylish convertible victorias seemingly far more than we did here. Were it not for Waterhouse, Rollston, Derham, Dietrich, Brunn, Fleetwood and LeBaron, none might have been built. Great stuff NEVER goes out of style....... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narve N Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 From the flow of Facebook groups: A CCCA Chrysler as Police interceptor vehicle. Chicago Police chose an 32 Imperial with what looks like bulletproof glass. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
md murray Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 Anybody familiar with this car or who the body maker was? It looks like a shorter wheelbase or is that just the skirts playing a visual effect? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike brady Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 one of 32 LeBaron Speedster 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted March 19, 2020 Author Share Posted March 19, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, md murray said: Anybody familiar with this car or who the body maker was? It looks like a shorter wheelbase or is that just the skirts playing a visual effect? It is on the shorter CH chassis. Special built for Walter P. Chrysler. Edited March 19, 2020 by alsancle (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 56 minutes ago, alsancle said: It is on the shorter CH chassis. Special built for Walter P. Chrysler. The first real car show I attended a great distance from my home, this car was on the field. It made quite an impression on me. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dep5 Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 On 1/8/2020 at 2:37 PM, Narve N said: From the flow of Facebook groups: A CCCA Chrysler as Police interceptor vehicle. Chicago Police chose an 32 Imperial with what looks like bulletproof glass. Clearly a 1931 Imperial CG as evidenced by the flat windshield, sidemount tire hold downs, flat headlamp lens, spacers between upper and lower bumper bars. The horns and customized hood are add ons. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFeeney Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 Hello Everyone, Just a note that my 1931 Chrysler CD-8 Roaster is up for sale. Contact me for additional information, thanks, Don in Ohio 740-816-4284 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 I spotted this at RM's Hershey Auction - Great car and just the way I like a car (fun "as is" and plenty of projects for me to do in my evenings and weekends). Kills me though that someone could not spend a few minutes to put the metal sidemount covers on for the auction photos. https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/hf20/hershey/lots/r0012-1932-chrysler-cl-imperial-dual-windshield-phaeton-by-lebaron/922959 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted August 1, 2020 Author Share Posted August 1, 2020 1 hour ago, John_Mereness said: I spotted this at RM's Hershey Auction - Great car and just the way I like a car (fun "as is" and plenty of projects for me to do in my evenings and weekends). Kills me though that someone could not spend a few minutes to put the metal sidemount covers on for the auction photos. https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/hf20/hershey/lots/r0012-1932-chrysler-cl-imperial-dual-windshield-phaeton-by-lebaron/922959 Love it. Has a very "honest" feel. I'll bet it does really well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 31 minutes ago, alsancle said: Love it. Has a very "honest" feel. I'll bet it does really well. I assume it ticks all the boxes for what someone would want in an Imperial and from appearances I doubt there are many that were ever this nice a car to start a restoration on if one would choose to do so (personally, I would just be tinkering with it and having a great time doing so matched to lots of nights out on the town for dinner and ...). It should soar up over 100K within a few seconds of bidding starting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted August 1, 2020 Author Share Posted August 1, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, John_Mereness said: I assume it ticks all the boxes for what someone would want in an Imperial and from appearances I doubt there are many that were ever this nice a car to start a restoration on if one would choose to do so (personally, I would just be tinkering with it and having a great time doing so matched to lots of nights out on the town for dinner and ...). It should soar up over 100K within a few seconds of bidding starting. I'm thinking 150-17k. This one struggled for a couple of years to sell but is the convertible sedan (which I really like). Bonhams eventually sold it for 180k in a much stronger market. https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/24143/lot/121/ Edited August 1, 2020 by alsancle (see edit history) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 Considering what a split windshield Packard would cost you, the Chrysler is a very good car for the money. Ralph Roberts always did nice work. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 (edited) 18 hours ago, alsancle said: I'm thinking 150-17k. This one struggled for a couple of years to sell but is the convertible sedan (which I really like). Bonhams eventually sold it for 180k in a much stronger market. https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/24143/lot/121/ It was a nice car too, but as I have preached repeatedly, White cars are really difficult to deal with in sale matched to this being about the last thing you would ever want wooden wheels on (a car that truly cries for metal sidemount tire covers too). It takes a long time to find the "right" buyer - when something White comes up (or at least that is my experience). One of the things a lot of people fail to recognize too is what is a good "base product" - there are a lot of Imperials that came from hell and back in condition and I would take this car 100 times over those. A good friend has a White painted 1935 Auburn 851 Phaeton. The car came out of a great collection and was very nicely restored matched to being a proven driver/tour car. He and I were talking at Auburn just post a dealer acquaintance offering me the car - the dealer had just picked it up via bombing at a major auction and just wanted to make a few bucks and move on. My friend wanted a Boattail and I said to temporarily rethink that given their difficulty to find and pick the car up as it was super nice car for a very reasonable price (good way to get into Club and ...). And if wanted he could always repaint it and still be ok on it. Well, he did buy it - it has proven an outstanding car, it has been to ACD festival several times, it has allowed him to better meet a ton of people (it also holds 5 people so they have had their friends with them too), it has been shown at numerous Concours d'Elegance events, and best of all his wife loves it just the way it is (and loves to drive it too - great support to have her enthusiasm). Edited August 2, 2020 by John_Mereness (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TG57Roadmaster Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 On 1/7/2020 at 4:07 AM, Narve N said: You are absolutely correct. Dammann and myself mixed it up and here is the same picture (low resolution) from a period Chrysler leaflet. It was a Kellner Cvt Cp made for King Carol II of Romania: The '31 Imperial by Kellner, from the July 1932 issue of Chrysler-Plymouth Overseas Graphic magazine, published for foreign markets by the Chrysler Export Corporation, Detroit, MI. It is by Alexis Kellner of Berlin, not Kellner of Paris. https://www.coachbuild.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=157&t=15347 A 1932 Imperial by Drauz for King Carol II, from from the January 1935 issue of Chrysler-Plymouth Overseas Graphic magazine. King Carol II had a large stable of coachbuilt cars. https://www.coachbuild.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=266&t=1689 Caption from above, "Personalities... La SARAL, S.A., our distributors in Bucharest have kindly sent us this interesting picture of His Majesty Carol II, King of Romania, (sitting) in his brand new Imperial Chrysler during the festivities recently held in the capital of the kingdom." King Carol II is the man in plumed hat and moustache in the back seat of the Imperial coachbuilt by Drauz of Heilbronn, Germany. There are similarities between these two Imperials, as in 1930 Kellner went bankrupt and its name and patent rights were bought by Drauz. TG 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 Source: The Beaulieu Encyclopaedia of the Automobile Coachbuilding, edited by Nick Georgano: Kellner (i) (F) 1903-1938 1903-1910 G. Kellner & Ses Fils, 125 Malakoff, Paris. 1910-1938 Kellner Freres, Successeurs, Pairs and Boulogne-sur-Seine. Kellner (ii) (D) 1910-1935 Carrosserie Alexis Kellner AG, Berlin "There was no connection between Kellner Berlin and Kellner et ses Fils in Paris, the names were purely coincidental." Drauz (D) 1900-1956 Drauz Karosseriewerke, Heilbronn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 The dead giveaway on the European coachbuilt cars are the semaphore turn indicators mounted on the windshield pillars. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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