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What are some of the great "missing" Classics, prewar American?

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19 minutes ago, 58L-Y8 said:

Anyone on the survival of at least one of the '30 Packard 745 LeBaron convertible sedans?

 

I'm pretty sure I saw at least one back at an RM auction in Arizona 15-20 years ago.

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11 hours ago, PFitz said:

 

While there are still many Dietrich designed Franklins, some of which were built by Dietrich, sadly, none of those three Walker built Dietrichs are known to still exist.

 

Paul 

I agree with Paul - I do not believe any of these three Franklins exist.

 

 

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On 12/25/2018 at 5:50 PM, alsancle said:

How about any Mcfarland Roadsters with the 500 and something cube engine?

 

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A couple/few decades ago, A fellow I knew through the local Horseless Carriage Club had one of these. He had a small collection of cars ranging from 1903 on up into what I considered modern cars. The cars were kept in several locations, including a vintage dealer's showroom. The McFarlan (no "d") roadster he had was beautifully restored with dark green body. and had been originally owned by a famous name that for the life of me I cannot recall at the moment. 

I think the McFarlan is still around, but I haven't seen him in about twenty years, and don't know for sure. 

Why am I reporting so little when I don't know much more about this one? Just because it was a close one. Around thirty years ago, a building he owned, and kept part of his collection in one half of, and rented the other half to a local shop business was accidentally set on fire by the renter. The McFarlan wasn't there at that time. However five cars were destroyed, including a 1950s Cadillac one-off factory show car, a 1914 (if I recall correctly) Simplex, a 1921 (if I recall correctly) Mercer touring car, and the only 1921 (I think) American touring car I have ever seen (an amazingly original car!). The fifth car I do not recall what it was offhand. The fire was so hot that all aluminum copper and brass was melted into puddles in the ashes. 

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The late Alden Johnson in Minneapolis owned a McFarlan roadster. I don't know where it ended up, but I think it went to California.

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The ivory-with-black-fenders McFarlan roadster posted by 1937hd45 on page 19 (can't give you a post number anymore because they've gone missing) was owned by the late Cebert Holmes (d. 2013) in Northern CA in the 1980s and (I think) the early 1990s, and was then sold to the late Jack Passey (d. 2015).  I don't know where it is now.  I rode in the car briefly while Cebert owned it.

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Grimy,Thank you for the update on the McFarlan. We had so many great cars at the Ridgefield Meet 1961 until it died in 1995. Almost every great collection today has a car that once graced the lawn at Veterans Park. Bob 

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3 hours ago, Grimy said:

The ivory-with-black-fenders McFarlan roadster posted by 1937hd45 on page 19 (can't give you a post number anymore because they've gone missing) was owned by the late Cebert Holmes (d. 2013) in Northern CA in the 1980s and (I think) the early 1990s, and was then sold to the late Jack Passey (d. 2015).  I don't know where it is now.  I rode in the car briefly while Cebert owned it.

 

Cebert was an interesting collector, and I enjoyed spending time with him. I looked the car over at his place before Jack ended up with it. I was also chasing a Knickerbocker at the same time. After driving three of them, I decided I would prefer a Cunningham. Anyways, the car left Jacks Collection for another on not too far down the coast..........where it will probably never, ever be seen again. It’s in good company with a bunch of other cars, but it went down the proverbial  black hole. (Giant sucking sound.)

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Just now, edinmass said:

 

Cebert was an interesting collector, and I enjoyed spending time with him

Yes, he was!  I knew him since the early '60s and over the drinks you'll buy me at Pebble, I'll tell you some great stories--the least of which is how I flat towed his broken u-joint 1925 Marmon that his father purchased new 35 miles with a 1953 Ford....

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The Marmon’s engine was apart last time I saw it. Great big beast of a car from an era that so few people know and understand today. The Locomobile sedan that was all white with the Leon Rubay body was very interesting, and I almost ended up taking it home.......but a Pierce Arrow got unexpectedly in the way. I haven’t seen or heard of that car since. Does anyone know where it went to? I don’t have any photos of it to post. The series 36 Pierce Arrow touring car he had ended up on the Boston South Shore, he wanted too much money for it at the time. 

 

George, besides drinks, I will BUY you lunch on Friday at the equestrian center. Noon sharp! It’s become a tradition for me and a handful of friends. I’m sure you will enjoy it. 👍

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)

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4 minutes ago, edinmass said:

The Marmon’s engine was apart last time I saw it. Great big beast of a car from an era that so few people know and understand today. The Locomobile sedan that was all white with the Leon Rubay body was very interesting, and I almost ended up taking it home.......but a Pierce Arrow got unexpectedly in the way. I haven’t seen or heard of that car since. Does anyone know where it went to? I don’t have any photos of it to post. The series 36 Pierce Arrow touring car he had ended up on the Boston South Shore, he wanted too much money for it at the time. 

 

George, besides drinks, I will BUY you lunch on Friday at the equestrian center. Noon sharp! It’s become a tradition for me and a handful of friends. I’m sure you will enjoy it.

The Marmon was only about 136" wheelbase as I recall, and as plain as a mud fence.  How about the Loco Sportif with trans and steering gear 600W that had turned to tar?  I made him an offer on the 14,000-mile 1927 Pierce 36 4-p touring that he refused and then sold for that same price to Pat, who re-sold it at Hershey within six months.  And I came very close to buying the 1947 Packard-Henney Custom Super Clipper--would have bought it if he'd been anywhere near reasonable; and I provided the dark blue broadcloth for the seats from a 1949 Chrysler Windsor I parted out.

 

Looking forward to telling stories with you at Pebble--thanks for the offer!

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Got to play around with one of these today, one of two known to exist. Neat car.

55E59F2D-9807-410E-AB44-ED0323DBB180.png

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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1 hour ago, 1937hd45 said:

Grimy,Thank you for the update on the McFarlan. We had so many great cars at the Ridgefield Meet 1961 until it died in 1995. Almost every great collection today has a car that once graced the lawn at Veterans Park. Bob 

Bob is correct about the Ridgefield meet which was the best pre WWII vehicle meet in New England in my estimation. Peter Helck would drive down from his home in Boston Corners , NY to attend in Old 16, and there would be an incredible variety of cars to see - John Linhardt would drive up from Queens , NY in his 34 Packard V12 LeBaron coupe , there were just so many interesting cars - original 34 or 35 Oldsmobile conv coupe, Locomobiles to LaSalles, Packards, Pierce Arrows and Plymouths;    and every year some really eccentric guy would drive up from long island in a 31 Franklin with Derham body or a 41 Packard 120 woody wagon. The flea market around the edge of the school field was spectacular , and I managed to buy at least one large pre war pressed steel toy there every year to add to my collection .

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Yes, that’s the other one........not too sure about the color choice. Neat car and it meets my requirements of rare and obscure. I hate parking next to cars that are similar to what I am driving.

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)

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3 minutes ago, alsancle said:

what are the differences between 32 and 33?

 

I have no idea...........32’s are very rare, and 33’s are just about non existent. The one at the shop was the auto show car if I am not mistaken. In 1933 they only built a TOTAL of eight chassis on the Prsident line, and that’s all body styles. 

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19 minutes ago, alsancle said:

what are the differences between 32 and 33?

Presumably, the semi-skirted front fenders are 1933, and 1932 would lack the semi-skirts--just like Pierce, owned at the time by Studebaker, and with similar fender lines.

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There are a lot of cool Stude’s. The guy with the 33 President Roadster has a one off custom aluminum bodied 1938 President built in Canada, along with some other strange and very low production or prototype cars. Stude builds lots of cars every year, and I think they built quite a few specials for the auto shows........there are expanses of Convertible Sedans that were not in the catalogues but maybe half a dozen were made and sold to dealers, favored customers, and the like. They are similar to Auburn in size, fit, and finish with the production cars. The limited and special stuff seem to be a bit higher in quality than the production stuff. President production volume was decent from 28-30 and then it fell off a cliff. There are several collectors who focus on the big cars...........

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I had my hands all over this 1932 Studebaker President Four Seasons Roadster -  a good friend owned and combo restored/project managed his own restoration, but when it came to drivability the car fell  short and basically had to be all re-gone through (along the way though it was obvious the car was AACA, CCCA, and Concours suited and I spent a lot of time upgrading it for that too). 

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Fountainhead Antique Auto Museum - 1919 McFarland Sport TouringThe 1919 McFarlan Sport Touring in the Fountainhead Museum. Ex-Bill Harrah, and ex-Wallace Reid, shown at Pebble Beach in 2012.

 

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2 hours ago, John_Mereness said:

I had my hands all over this 1932 Studebaker President Four Seasons Roadster -  a good friend owned and combo restored/project managed his own restoration, but when it came to drivability the car fell  short and basically had to be all re-gone through (along the way though it was obvious the car was AACA, CCCA, and Concours suited and I spent a lot of time upgrading it for that too). 

e662bf0f4799f3f54022bd6c0fc533da.jpg

I certainly hope not!!

 

Here's another '32 in Post #19 here--------------------->  http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?28963-More-Eye-Candy-12-16-Prewar

 

Craig

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