Boatail Value Climbing?

[Chimera]

The one from Poland is hard to compare, however. But I think Rivieras are climbing in value and the Boat Tails are becoming more and more desirable on the market. 

 

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1973-Buick-Riviera/162828186197?hash=item25e950f255:g:q4UAAOSwen9aIzn9

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1971-Buick-Riviera-Boat-Tail-Coupe/173061188771?hash=item284b402ca3:g:QsUAAOSwZqZaRkbV

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1972-Buick-Riviera/222769346722?hash=item33de1678a2:g:ZsAAAOSwBRFaQR8A

[bodayguy]

Never studied a 73 before, but man that front bumper is unfortunate. 

[RivNut]

4 hours ago, bodayguy said:

Never studied a 73 before, but man that front bumper is unfortunate. 

Gotta love the Feds and how they take care of us.

[60FlatTop]

I always liked the 1971-2 aggressive grille and bumper. The ;73's leave me kind of cool.

 

I tried one out at a Buick dealership near me because I was intrigued by the style. You don't see the style from the inside. That's a bit of a drawback.  And there is something about the GM cars with the 45 degree sill plates that just feels uninviting to me. I just couldn't warm up to the cars.

 

Being 50 years old, I think many purchases are made based on appearance and specifications, no experience. That may affect buying and, at 50, large ticket items start coming due. So the seller may be squeezing to "get back" some of the money spent.

 

I bought my '64 Riviera based on 14 year old dreams. I was 14 when I found them in the showroom and my car was 14 when I bought it. I had owned Buicks before, but not "small" ones. My '64 has always felt a little narrow compared to the '66 and '68 I had owned prior to buying it. But it has always been my dream car. And I did and will continue to pay a premium for dreams.

 

Maybe things like that are behind the boat tail pricing.

Bernie

[PWB]

20G+ for a ‘73?! I shoulda kept mine. 

Black seems to command premiums huh?

Edited January 2, 2018 by PWB (see edit history)

[Chimera]

The 73 has a couple advantages.

 

The bumper looks clunky, but I seriously think it may have been the best bumper ever made in history in function. A very impressive piece of technology, which if you ever have the luck of seeing it work first had, a great respect is developed. The 71 grill looks hot, but basically its a nice piece of jewelry. O, and the grill...PLASTIC (WHYWHYWHY).

 

The rear of the 73 also is nice because the license plate is centered and it still has a cool look, yet think it almost does not qualify as an actual boat tail rear end. A 73 is very quick on its feet with the steering ratio, yet offers such an excellent ride. When I first saw the 73 on the side of the road with a for sale sign on it, I was like, WOW that looks like a giant corvette; and had to work a deal with the owners. A real luxury sports tank. 

 

Still, the 71 GS. Equal to NASA tech.

 

I think the boatails have become infamous and are so different that people are growing to love the legend.

[Chimera]

4 minutes ago, PWB said:

20G+ for a ‘73?! I shoulda kept mine. 

Black seams to command premiums huh?

 

And the auction is not over yet.

 

But it is a triple black with center console shifter in good condition. Not sure if factory black.

[RivNut]

23 minutes ago, PWB said:

20G+ for a ‘73?! I shoulda kept mine. 

Black seams to command premiums huh?

But there are no bids yet.  From what the rest of the ad states, I'm betting that his reserve is at $27,500.  The RWO tires don't help the appearance, and I don't think a true aficionado would go for the Edlebrock carb and performance cam.  To me this would indicate it's been driven harder than you would appreciate.

Edited January 1, 2018 by RivNut (see edit history)

[Pat Curran]

2 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

I always liked the 1971-2 aggressive grille and bumper. The ;73's leave me kind of cool.

 

I tried one out at a Buick dealership near me because I was intrigued by the style. You don't see the style from the inside. That's a bit of a drawback.  And there is something about the GM cars with the 45 degree sill plates that just feels uninviting to me. I just couldn't warm up to the cars.

 

Being 50 years old, I think many purchases are made based on appearance and specifications, no experience. That may affect buying and, at 50, large ticket items start coming due. So the seller may be squeezing to "get back" some of the money spent.

 

I bought my '64 Riviera based on 14 year old dreams. I was 14 when I found them in the showroom and my car was 14 when I bought it. I had owned Buicks before, but not "small" ones. My '64 has always felt a little narrow compared to the '66 and '68 I had owned prior to buying it. But it has always been my dream car. And I did and will continue to pay a premium for dreams.

 

Maybe things like that are behind the boat tail pricing.

Bernie

There is nothing better than looking out at those pontoon fenders on a  first generation Riviera while driving down the road!!

[Chimera]

1 hour ago, RivNut said:

But there are no bids yet.  From what the rest of the ad states, I'm betting that his reserve is at $27,500.  The RWO tires don't help the appearance, and I don't think a true aficionado would go for the Edlebrock carb and performance cam.  To me this would indicate it's been driven harder than you would appreciate.

One bid for $20K is a good start. No bidding war yet.

[Pat Curran]

Just personal preference but a 71/72 front clip on a 73 would be the boattail that I would want.  Unfortunately it is not a bolt on swap.  I never cared for off-set license plates on a vehicle but that is just me.

[RivNut]

3 minutes ago, Chimera said:

One bid for $20K is a good start. No bidding war yet.

What are the chances that that 1st bid is a shill bid by a friend or relative.  Personally, with the wrapped steering wheel and raised white outline tires, I don't think the car represents itself well.

[Chimera]

I agree Pat. Offset plate is not ideal.

 

You could be correct Ed. Many eBay games are played unfortunately.

 

Could be legit. Its like when making a solid offer on buying a Riviera and the first thing they say is, "someone already offered that." Gata raise the offer or fold.

[RivNut]

4 hours ago, Chimera said:

I agree Pat. Offset plate is not ideal.

 

You could be correct Ed. Many eBay games are played unfortunately.

 

Could be legit. Its like when making a solid offer on buying a Riviera and the first thing they say is, "someone already offered that." Gata raise the offer or fold.

If it were me interested in the car and  was serious about it, I'd try to place a bid high enough to find out what the reserve is.  Do t see that happening here (at least yet.)

[cjp69]

I have been watching them for the last year or two as I am looking to buy a real nice 71, and I would agree that the prices have definitely been on the rise. 

[Rivman]

It would be good for me if the values do keep going up!

 

That way the money I am putting into my '72 GS "might" make it worth it some day?

 

Of course the Baby Blue color is not a big draw color, but, I want to keep it as original as I possibly can, so I'll just live with that. And, I'll more than likely keep it till I'm gone anyway!

 

I'm not sure I agree about the '73 "tail" though, I think they lost a good bit of its character by taking away the "tail" of the '71 and '72.

[kreed]

Speaking of cool rear ends here is my 72 and 73  for a little comparison. To me they each have their own appeal IMHO.

KReed

ROA 14549

 

 

[Chimera]

I like all the rear ends 71-73. Something about the vent louvers on the 71 makes it look like a rocket ship batmobile. Love that feature even though I have read it causes venting problems or rusting???

[DualQuadDave]

They are sexy cars and deserve more than the 10-20k pricing they have been at for a long time.  I want one, just pro-touring out for a daily.

[60FlatTop]

In another topic there is some discussion about the small size of the first generation Riviera. I seem to remember, decades ago, that Bill Mitchell wanted to see those boat tails based on a A body; Skylark, Grand Prix, Chevelle size. He was disappointed to see the concept get bloated (no pun on boated).

 

Right after the turn of the century I bought a Jaguar XJS. It was delivered to my house in an enclosed trailer. I had already driven an example of each Riviera and knew them pretty well. I had not driven the Jaguar.

The first time I pulled out of the driveway and stepped on the gas with the Jaguar I thought "Wow! This is the car Bill Mitchell wanted to build. It was "right size", low (the roof was less than twice the wheel height), and it felt solid; like a British Buick. I was what I wanted the boat tail Buick I test drove to be.

I have had a few Jaguars since and I like them. The style of the early XJS has a lot of Boat tail Riviera to it. I think if I was in the market for that style I would look for an XJS, what the Jaugar people call Lump (Chevy powered). I had a second V12 and don't think the performance is worth the effort over a V8 swap.

That's my personal and experienced preference and I'm pretty well ingrained in Buicks.

Bernie

 

[jj5794]

Yes, the boattail design was envisioned by Bill Mitchell on a smaller vehicle, closer to the A-Special used on the Grand Prix.  Unfortunately, for financial considerations, GM insisted that its middle body section be based on the new full-size B body platform.  Mitchell said "What hurt the boattail was to widen it.  It got so wide a speed boat became a tug boat."

 

Jim Vesely

 

ROA # 7437

 

BCA # 39477

 

[Chimera]

It would be cool to go into the alternate dimension where the designers got their way on that one to see the slimmer "speed boat."

Edited January 6, 2018 by Chimera (see edit history)

[Chimera]

Maybe it would have been much like the V12 Pontiac Pegasus concept?

[Dynaflash8]

Having been an antique and classic car enthusiast since I was about 13 years old reading Motor Trend, I was drawn to the 1971 Riviera the minute it was introduced.  I'm 79 now.  I've had three 1971 and one 1972 Riviera since 1971.  I couldn't afford one until 1977 when I bought the first one with 80,000 miles on it.  It was a terrific car and we had it for years and I finally turned it into a parts car with 165,000 on the speedometer. What drew me to the 1971 Riviera?  Well, I'd known about the 1935-36 Auburn boat-tail speedsters since I was a kid.  In my 20s I met a friend who wanted one worse than anything.  He had a 1937 and 1938 Buick Special convertible at the time.  Around 1965 he was able to sell both Buicks and buy a '35 Auburn.  So, I was around the Auburn stuff with him.  I knew I could never afford one, but he filled me with interest and information.  So, when I saw my first 1971 Buick Riviera on the showroom floor I felt it would be an instant classic (which proved not to be true with the younger generation).  But, for me, I knew I had to have one.  The prettiest one I ever saw was on a used car lot in Glenburnie, MD.  It was metallic blue (like a Corvette) with a white vinyl top and a white interior.  It was way out of my price range.  Long story short, I bought a tired 1971 Riviera in Pennsylvania in 1998.  Restoration started in 2000 and wasn't finished until (I think) 2009.  We duplicated the 165K driver with the exterior in Vintage Red metallic and the interior brown and the top in Sandlewood.  The car won an AACA Junior, Senior and went on to Preservation.  Now we drive it.  I just wonder if these cars will ever be appreciated by collectors like the old 1935-36 Auburn's were?  By the way, in my opinion, the 1973 is no longer a boat-tail.  It is an abbreviated boat-tail. 

[RivNut]

I just checked the eBay auction on the black '73.  It ended with one bid.  No sale with a $100 bid over the starting price.  "Over priced to begin with!" Or "over priced to begin with?" Should this be taken as a statement of fact on value?

 

The original bidder did nothing more to approach the reserve. That tells me that that one bid was a shill bid to try and get things started.

 

Ed

[Chimera]

The 73 Black had two bids and you can’t raise the price without someone else outbidding you. Now there is a buy it now price for $22.5k

 

The 71 is at $18.3k with three bids. 

 

Of of course no one sale shows a trend, but the chatter on the streets along with the increase on sale price is showing well. Also this is off season for sales, yet Riviera seem to be selling well currently.

[RivNut]

No bids at the opening price on the new listing on the black 73.  IMO, it's just not presented well.  A lot of people put money into cars making them what they want and are then disappointed that the general public doesn't see those additions as improvements but rather as items that degrade the car.  I think thats whats happening here.  

 

Even with the lowered price, I'm betting it will not sell.  The seller should be more realistic and look at the other two cars that have been pointed out here. Both of the other cars are nicer and not priced as high.

 

Reminds me of when I was working as a mortgage loan officer.  We made a construction loan to a guy building a house where the loan value was based on the market and the blueprints.  We had to back way down on what we'd lend to the guy because he'd gone to an architectural salvage place and had installed antique doors and trim in the new house.  He just couldn't understand that his idea of what was cool just wasn't marketable to the general public.  As a lender, you're always considering that you're going to have to foreclose and try to find a new buyer. ANYTHING that's out of the ordinary devalues the property.  The same thing is happening to the Black 73 with the carb and other non-stock modifications.  His dea of value is unrealistic.

 

[Chimera]

Certainly the upside-down picture of the engine compartment does not help much....

[Dynaflash8]

16 hours ago, RivNut said:

I just checked the eBay auction on the black '73.  It ended with one bid.  No sale with a $100 bid over the starting price.  "Over priced to begin with!" Or "over priced to begin with?" Should this be taken as a statement of fact on value?

 

The original bidder did nothing more to approach the reserve. That tells me that that one bid was a shill bid to try and get things started.

 

Ed

I don't think it was a shill bid necessarily.  But, the main point is, you can't judge any value based on eBay bidding.  Nobody in the right mind, in my opinion, would make a bid on any car sight unseen, that they saw on eBay.  That opinion is based on experience, because I've done it, and always gotten stung.  I bought one car sight unseen----from a dealer, not on eBay-----and got stung about the worst of my life.  Another one after that I spent $1,000 to go see by air (air and motel), and got stung again, except it only cost me the $1,000 because the dealer gave back the deposit.  A third time I had a friend look at the distant car and based on his valued opinion, I made a $500 deposit and drove to see the car.  I really didn't like what I saw and I lost the $500 deposit.  So first, I recommend looking at cars close enough by so you don't make a deposit.  Second, if you really want a car far away, deal with a reputable old car dealer and specify in advance that you want your deposit back if you don't like the car.  My last comment is don't ever make a deposit to an individual or buy a car sight unseen.  That is just my personal opinion.  Even if the car is close enough you can go see it first, you can still stick yourself unless you take a real mechanic and/or bodyman with you, but then you can only blame yourself.

Edited January 7, 2018 by Dynaflash8 (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

17 hours ago, RivNut said:

A lot of people put money into cars making them what they want and are then disappointed that the general public doesn't see those additions as improvements but rather as items that degrade the car.  I think thats whats happening here.  

 

The Buick Club has a 400 point judging standard. All you have to do is follow it. Then you can advertise it as a *** point car based on a standard.

 

That seems to be a really tough hairball for a lot of owners to hack up.

 

On the refundable deposit thing, as an expert at "snoozing and losing" on both ends of the sale, I won't hold a refundable deposit. Either come and see the car or send an authorized agent with money. And you don't get a "deposit" receipt from me, it is written out as "partial payment on the sale with balance due". Back out of the sale, I keep your money. We made an agreement. I can't remember refunding any deposit because I will do a screening on the buyer. If someone wanted a refund it would depend, mainly, on their personality and secondly my attitude.

 

A couple of cars sales ago a guy said he would come to look at a project Bug Eye Sprite after he picked his Wife up from work. I asked if she was coming. When he said she was I told him not to come. She wouldn't let him have it. I recommended a good restaurant near them and suggested he take her there instead and save us all some grief. He brought her. She said no. I'm not a fortune teller, but I am pretty good at "Name That Tune".

 

Car sales! There are a bunch of people excited about a football game today. I learned how to sell car in my early teens with my Grandfather. I chose a different career path and just make casual car sales. Now that's SPORT! I don't need no stinkin' football.

Bernie

[cjp69]

On 1/6/2018 at 4:11 AM, Dynaflash8 said:

Having been an antique and classic car enthusiast since I was about 13 years old reading Motor Trend, I was drawn to the 1971 Riviera the minute it was introduced.  I'm 79 now.  I've had three 1971 and one 1972 Riviera since 1971.  I couldn't afford one until 1977 when I bought the first one with 80,000 miles on it.  It was a terrific car and we had it for years and I finally turned it into a parts car with 165,000 on the speedometer. What drew me to the 1971 Riviera?  Well, I'd known about the 1935-36 Auburn boat-tail speedsters since I was a kid.  In my 20s I met a friend who wanted one worse than anything.  He had a 1937 and 1938 Buick Special convertible at the time.  Around 1965 he was able to sell both Buicks and buy a '35 Auburn.  So, I was around the Auburn stuff with him.  I knew I could never afford one, but he filled me with interest and information.  So, when I saw my first 1971 Buick Riviera on the showroom floor I felt it would be an instant classic (which proved not to be true with the younger generation).  But, for me, I knew I had to have one.  The prettiest one I ever saw was on a used car lot in Glenburnie, MD.  It was metallic blue (like a Corvette) with a white vinyl top and a white interior.  It was way out of my price range.  Long story short, I bought a tired 1971 Riviera in Pennsylvania in 1998.  Restoration started in 2000 and wasn't finished until (I think) 2009.  We duplicated the 165K driver with the exterior in Vintage Red metallic and the interior brown and the top in Sandlewood.  The car won an AACA Junior, Senior and went on to Preservation.  Now we drive it.  I just wonder if these cars will ever be appreciated by collectors like the old 1935-36 Auburn's were?  By the way, in my opinion, the 1973 is no longer a boat-tail.  It is an abbreviated boat-tail. 

Beautiful car!

[bodayguy]

6 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

 

The Buick Club has a 400 point judging standard. All you have to do is follow it. Then you can advertise it as a *** point car based on a standard.

 

That seems to be a really tough hairball for a lot of owners to hack up.

 

On the refundable deposit thing, as an expert at "snoozing and losing" on both ends of the sale, I won't hold a refundable deposit. Either come and see the car or send an authorized agent with money. And you don't get a "deposit" receipt from me, it is written out as "partial payment on the sale with balance due". Back out of the sale, I keep your money. We made an agreement. I can't remember refunding any deposit because I will do a screening on the buyer. If someone wanted a refund it would depend, mainly, on their personality and secondly my attitude.

 

A couple of cars sales ago a guy said he would come to look at a project Bug Eye Sprite after he picked his Wife up from work. I asked if she was coming. When he said she was I told him not to come. She wouldn't let him have it. I recommended a good restaurant near them and suggested he take her there instead and save us all some grief. He brought her. She said no. I'm not a fortune teller, but I am pretty good at "Name That Tune".

 

Car sales! There are a bunch of people excited about a football game today. I learned how to sell car in my early teens with my Grandfather. I chose a different career path and just make casual car sales. Now that's SPORT! I don't need no stinkin' football.

Bernie

 

This is great!

 

And I gotta say, unless you are buying a new car, you gotta know you are going to have to pay out on top of the sale price for who-knows-what fixes. When I'm buying, I always ask, "what needs to done and what would you work on it"? I just assume something isn't right. If they are a good seller, they will give you a direct answer and are confident they have priced the car with stuff like that in mind.

 

I once heard someone say to buy a car based on the seller (do they give you an honest vibe? do they have other cars and what shape are those? are they nervous? do they have a clean house, garage, yard, etc?)

 

 

[Dynaflash8]

The car that I received the deposit back on was from a dealer.  He never told me about the problem during many conversations.  It jumped up the very minute I drove it, and he admitted sheepishly that it had happened to me.  I thought he did the right thing.  The car I did not get the deposit back was nowhere near as nice as described or looked in the pictures.  I was ahead to lose the $500 rather than buy it.  The Riviera I've pictured above cost me $800 in 1998 and took nine years to restore.    I never had to rebuild the engine, only replace the accessories around the outside of it, and only had to reseal the transmission three years ago. Those were the "good old days". I guess it's a good time to get too old to fully restore anymore cars based on the cost of parts and labor today.  Everybody have a Happy and successful 2018.

Edited January 8, 2018 by Dynaflash8 (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

16 hours ago, bodayguy said:

do they have a clean house, garage, yard, etc?)

 

I have driven down streets or roads to look at a car advertised for sale and thought to myself "Why am I expecting for find anything of value here?" That has resulted in quite a few drive by's for me.

 

Craigslist ads are quite helpful in screening sellers for me. I'll go to a dumpy restaurant before I'll go to look at a car in someone's dumpy yard. I might sound like a "car snob" but I took the liberty of rewriting the old adage "One man's junk is junk."

 

On the same thought, since I have been around a long time, I have seen the people who cry poverty, whine about prices, and will do anything possible while they demean themselves to buy something for the lowest possible price, then proudly announce what a great price they stole their latest treasure for. I've always been entertained watching them go from abject poverty to buffoonery in a couple of days. (Never saw that....oh).

 

How's my vocabulary today?

 

Bernie

[Tder1]

1973 for me too !  Having owned both, a Grey on Black 72 no top , as in Kreeds post, Loved that Car,  I was always drawn to the more modern Tail since I saw my first Willow Green 73 in the 70's. It's like Boatails in general, either you  like em or you dont.

A Boatail IS a Boatail.    It's not the bumpers.   It's the lines.......

Grouping 71 to 78 Rivieras together bugs me a lot more.

 

 

 

Edited January 11, 2018 by Tder1 (see edit history)

[Vin63]

Probably already mentioned elsewhere, but last year's Al Pacino movie, Hangman, prominantly featured a '71. Just in case one of the members here have not seen the movie yet. 

Edited January 11, 2018 by Vin63
Photo (see edit history)